DentyDao

Request denied. Cheers, S

I'm good.

Hern, I see. Again, I haven't read through all of what you wrote, but would just like to say I don't think I can add much more to the discussion. If people aren't impressed with David or my knowledge about David, then that is really their issue to work out. I will say that David is Tu Di disciple of Wang Liping. They have lived together, and David studies with him year round in China. I and others among David's students have received closed door training with Liping through David. So, for those who know something, there's not much more to say really. The website is a work in progress, so maybe those who created it will add more info in future. Cheers, S

Hi Hern, You seem upset. I didn't read much of your letter to be honest, but, as you may have noticed, I've kind of done the forum thing and have chosen to essentially move on. I'm not infallible, so your welcome to whatever conclusions you choose to come to. From the tone of your letter it sounds like you're not all that impressed with what I wrote. That suits me just fine. Cheers, S

I'm not upset. It would be interesting to know more about this side of David's work, but I have never bothered to ask. The PhD reference was taken from the Qigongresearch.com site which was created by some students from Turkey. David asked that we not use it for the website; not sure why, but I would assume it's because that's no longer something he wants to emphasize in the presentation or his own work. From what I have been told he made many of his connections through the research he was involved in, maybe he wants to keep those connections to himself, just a guess; he's pretty careful to protect the privacy of the masters he works with. Anyway, let me know if you find anything interesting and good luck on your search. Best, S PS- yes, David's students have met Liping and, as I said, I did as well.

Sorry I didn't see this, I don't follow the TB board unless someone emails me generally these days. Um, I honestly haven't inquired in great depth about David's research, but there is some info on the foundation forum. He published a few studies in China and did some consulting for Rochester University. Those are the ones that you might be able to look up. He is working on some research in Vienna, that one is pretty interesting; all the details are on the forum. Some of the research is classified, like the stuff Wang Liping does researching people with special abilities for the government. He is considered the top expert in China on Qigong health and healing and does a great deal of work with cancer and aids patients. He also set up many of the standards that are now in place for qigong and TCM in general. He teased us a little when we showed him some herbal prescriptions we had. He said we could ask any high government official, who is the best doctor in China and they would say Wang Liping. Then he told us all our herbs were basically a waste of money and we just need to Pan Zu (sit and meditate). I guess this is typical of the Northern School. Sorry, I the research thing is not really my field or interest, next time I see David I'll ask him. David is a pretty remarkable guy, when he was like 14 or 15 he left Italy and became the apprentice of a Chinese kungfu master in Taiwan; the rest of the story is kind of one unbelievable adventure, so it probably better if I stay in my forum and keep quiet; these discussions usually just create endless gossip and bad feelings. Peace, S

Max I did find your insights on water and DNA very interesting. Next time I get to NY, it would be nice to get to get together. I have a submission for your site from Sifu Liping, interesting health suppliment that he brought to light. I'll post it here when I get a chance. Yours, S

I appreciate the kind post. I should be mentioned that Jiang and Liping do charge. For Liping, the government demands payment for his time, especially for foreigners. Again, I understand this idea of taking money for spiritual practice being taboo in the States; or anywhere for that matter. It will likely always be viewed suspiciously by some. The Chinese view it as a test of sincerity and determination; as well as intelligence to have the ability to master money and demonstrate an acceptable level of aptitude in the material world. Money=metal, which is the base of alchemy. When I was studying with Liping, he said he really wants the teachings to spread. That's why he is writing a book with David to share some of the basic outer teachings openly. For those who reach a good level, doors will open. Wang Liping is a Buddhist and a Daoist. Many Daoist lineages have produced living Buddhas, just as prolifically as Buddhism the formal religious entity. Wang Liping is a Buddha on a par with Padmasambava, but he doesn't go around making claims, he doesn't need to. And he can demonstrate all the powers of a Buddha not just talk about it. The point is not to make silly comparisons to show one is better than another. Daoism is Dharma, only people with limited understanding see a distinction.

Yes, the training that David provides is a business. Yep, it's not Buddhism which is usually free, not always; generally the teacher receives financial support from his students. David live a typical middle class life, he's not rich. I'm the only one doing any marketing in the states. And I'm a volunteer school teacher. Revenge of the Gods? Um, you lost me there. Is this conversation really necessary? I mean, I have really moved on. Good grief

I don't really know how to respond to that. All I can say is that David and his teachers are in demand and very well respected in China. Wang Liping really is the guy who determines what is taught in the Daoist temples in China, monks and lay people wait years just to meet him. You don't have to believe me I guess. Warren Buffet's advice might be in a few books, but how many people personally apprentice with him and get hands on assistance and mentoring, very few. Ok, guys. I'll leave you to it. To each his own.

If you would have had the actual commitment to come, David would not have let you get hurt. That's just silly, but then again it's pretty clear that you weren't all that serious. I recently met with Sifu Jiang. The man who discredited him on his blog has since apologized; the newspaper article was a complete tabloid fabrication. The student is now helping Jiang publish a retraction. Anyway, Jiang burnt blisters into all of our hands from over a meters distance with no preparation or physical contact. David also insisted that Jiang remove his clothing to pass the electric like surge of qi which was incredibly strong and overwhelming and doesn't require any training on the receiving end to be perceived, no battery pack. Anyway, Anwei is a fine teacher. I wish you success in your training. Peace, S

Hey Guys, The forum attracted a number of young people and individuals in a low income bracket who were and are very sincere. People that, for whatever reason, were attracted but cannot afford the training. I sincerely sympathize with this situation having been a college student once myself. One of the goals of the foundation forum is to eventually provide scholarships for very dedicated young people who lack the funding to enroll in the program. Just to put things in perspective, the basic foundation training is a three year program that involves a two week commitment once a year and is comparable in cost to other similar programs. One seminar's tuition costs roughly 1,600.00 US dollars and you would need to attend four seminars to complete the training; after the first two seminars the cost is reduced to almost half, about 800.00-900.00 US Dollars. This is a complete training and all one need to progress to a very high level of realization. Just to say, the cost is not as absurd as this thread claims. Many people at the top of their respective fields charge much more to attend their seminars. The dragondoor.com Guru Pavlave or whatever, is a friend and client of one of David's students. I guess has charged as much as 2,500 for a weekend of personal coaching. And, if you want to get incredibly strong, they say he is one of the absolute best. It's the same kind of thing with David. His students are really serious and want really top instruction, pretty cut and dry honestly. The masters that David works with include Wang Liping and others of a comparable status. They are heads of huge organizations and have tremendous commitments to literally thousands of students throughout China. Naturally, just to arrange a week of exclusive time with someone like Wang Liping costs a great deal of money, thus the high cost to train with a master. Wang Liping is responsible for overseeing all the Taoist temples in China, in addition to many other duties. Logically, to attend a training with Warren Buffet on how to make money will cost more than attending a training with someone without his reputation and unquestionable aptitude. It's not such a mystery really. Again, I sympathize with the desire to have training of such a high caliber with highly qualified teachers available to a wider audience. David and his masters also want people at every socioeconomic to have access to authentic Daoist teachings and some basic teaching will be made available in a book David is writing at Sifu Wang's request. In the mean time, as Max has said, there are some excellent teachings out there. I can't comment on all his recommendations, but Buddhism really is a perfectly profound teaching. Dzogchen in particular is a very high level system of teachings, with many Daoist influences and commonalities. As for the forum, we feel that the services offered for our members is well worth the one time fee. Many forums charge much more and on a yearly basis. We charge a one time fee for lifetime membership; $250.00 US dollars. That's less than a dollar a day over the course of a year. Of course all the basic information is provided on the website (created with funds raised largely from Taobum.com members, thanks guys), so there is no need or requirement to join the forum. I don't see what there is to be so upset over and we have had a good response from our members, many of whom have already signed up. As for the other accusations, in the entire forum history we banned two people; and only after days of negative ranting on their part. We simple wish to be among fellow students and those like-minded; and for those who share are interests and like the idea of online training and getting their questions answered, it not such a huge deal. Cheers, Sean

Why not say something you won't have to appologize for? Go find your self and grow up a little.

No, not at all. David has worked hard the last fifteen years and achieved a great deal. He accomplished what he has without the aid of the masters, training up to 8 hours per day at some points in his training. Later, if you followed the discussion, he did receive empowerment to assist the process, but this is true of all Lei Shan Dao training. Are you kidding, David achieved a great deal years ago. He is very accomplished. What are you talking about? Do you even know? Many of his students are doing the same successfully. Most of David's students are very positive and inspiring to be around and grateful for their time with David. Another important point is the fact that David has several masters, some of whom do accept those students who reach a good level, including Jiang. David is quite capable as a teacher and guide, but his students have many options and a variety of interests as well as different goals with different masters. Say what you will. Your spectulation has no meaning. While the methods are different with many similarities, the goal and result is the same. This is very clear. There are actually twelve methods and techniques to cut the cords written about it Kostas' book. Different Pai within Lei Shan Dao, of which Mo Pai is a branch, use some or all of the twelve. Mo Pai applications call for around four of the twelve. Jiang and his brother have trained over one hundred successful students in Da Mo Pai to achieve the so called level four. Jiang's master is well above level 30, possibly much higher. You can read about some of the things he and Jiang can do from the people who saw and felt them on the foundation forum; which include all of the things written about such masters and far, far more. Why fall in line with the gabby talkers who have nothing better to do than cut people down. At least do your research and present an intelligent comment.

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Hey Cam, Pay your self a dollor for every day you are successful and, at the end of the 100 days, go out to a nice dinner with someone special to celibrate. That's my tip. May the immortals smile on you. S

Again, just to avoid confusion, it's important that people don't think that the foundation training involves 100 days as Cam suggests. We are doing something different and for a different length of time. Yes, celibacy is a requirement, but again there isn't really any similarity between the two trainings. Point of fact, just being celibate for a hundred days can have drastically different results depending on what practice you are doing. Sorry, to butt in again, as you were...

Hey Cam, I didn't see this. Just a quick note of clarification to avoid confusion. What I explained to Cam was a simple comment on the way jing opperates; because Cameron is a member of the foundation forum and what I told him is written there, I just thought I'd mention it. However, since Foundation and Max's Kunlun have little to do with eachother, it's important that what I said is not applied to Max's teaching. Also, what Cameron wrote is not what I explained, so it's important not to mistake what is written as something accurate or part of authentic Jing Dong Lu, the theory of accumulation of jing; which any way does not have anything to do with Kunlun, as it is taught by Max. Sorry if my comment created unnecessary confusion; I regret having mentioned it as it is really not helpful to interfer with what Max taught you. Cheers and good luck with your 100 days.....