DentyDao

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Health/story?id=830166&page=1

I'm saying I don't know if this particular demo is fake or not. I personally believe it's real and the other demonstrations that I did see are real. Anyway, make up your own mind as you will. There are plenty of good reasons to doubt stuff like this. As for the rest of your post, I think your getting a little carried away. I'm not here to convince you, just sharing my personal experiences and presenting information that I feel is valuable. Like a few others, you have over internalized some of the things I have written about; probably because you would like to believe they are real and are attracted to the idea. The people that gravitate to David are very serious and have dedicated their lives to these practices. It's really not for everybody and I wouldn't even recommend it for most people out there. Anyway, you don't really need a person like David to go to China and find these kinds of masters; It helps, don't get me wrong, but if you look long enough, you will probably find a master who can show you something 'supernatural.' I know you are young and a few thousand dollars is small fortune in your eyes, but it's really not that big a deal. David's courses are pretty reasonable in Denmark; no more or less than what a lot of qualified teachers charge. I took over 10,000 dollars worth of courses to get my Healing Dao instructor certification. David is offering a lineage transmission from Wang Liping for a fraction of that; the guy is giving it away. You want to sit here and complain about the lack of proof. Why would any teacher worth their salt bother? S

A real magician like David Blain could easily do these things and make them look far more convincing; part of the reason why you can't blame people for being skeptical. S

I read the article a while ago. It's not really that clear, but I think it's a reporter and a stage magician spectulating on how the old guy faked it. I wouldn't assume anything from the article, but I haven't seen the demonstration, so I can't swear by it either. There are a lot of fakes out there too. S

You are now on AiWai's ignor list. Depends would ruin all the fun, but thanks for the thought. It's a problem...

LMAOSHITISMPAL I'm laughing my ass off so hard I think I shit my pants a little. Hey Pat, did you ever go to that Buddhist guy's talk? Give us the low down.

My favorite part of the show is when he flys to New York to meet the guy who inspired the movie Rainman. It was the most amazing thing I've seen in a while. A meeting of the mega minds. At the end of the segment, Rainman gives him a hug and says, "Someday you'll be as great as me." It was so freaking funny and amazing at the same time.

I wonder how Freud would comment on this thread. First a bunch of subjective rationalization negating the possibility of the supernatural or religious belief systems, placing materialism in a superior position as the dominant archetype because of it's basis in a more fashionable belief system, science; followed by a philosophical analysis of miniskirts in cold weather and a collective, but unspoken, fantasy that involves frozen nipples and asses. I think we have a classic example of the unconscious rejection of the neurotic unconscious patterns implanted by the Catholic church coupled with the release of 2000 yrs of unconscious sexual repression. Which leads us to our current mode of personal freedom above social responsibility and vagina worship. Which of course is why every radical Muslim hates America and will eventually either kill us all or join us in our acceptance of animalistic modes which, propagated by large corporations, allow us to be controlled and manipulated on subtle levels that the Church only dreamed of. Sweet ignorance. S

Realization occurs gradually over what we preceive as time. And of course, the nature of mind is already realized, just like the nature of water is always pure no matter how dirty it is. I spent about an hour on Adyshanti's website reading his articles and looking at his live talks. This is the teaching that Sean is basing his writing here on (I'm just assuming). I think he has a nice and very accessable message. I see a lot of later Hindu thought (think Yogananda's idea of 'Self') mixed with Buddhist flavoring(emptiness). Pretty much Dzogchen. Anybody can benifit from this teaching which is simple and direct and takes about ten minutes to grasp; maybe fifteen if you have never been exposed to any manner of spiritual teaching. The only difference is that in Dzogchen, students are made to go though a lenthy preliminary practice before the teacher would do this style of direct pointing. I think this is helpful. An then, 'afterwords,' you can explore Bodhichitta which is another useful practice to deepen your selflessness. I do think there is truth and of course there is karma. If there was no karma, real or perceived, we (thinking)would not even relatively exist. Of course, if you approach the world with the advice Ayshanti is giving, naturally you are affecting your karma in a positive way. Selflessness is a good frame because it reflects the reality of 'our situation.' It's important to keep in perspective the knowledge that Adyshanti, or Primordial Peace as he has named himself, did go through a process and a serious 14 year apprenticeship with a Zen Master before he 'arrived,' as it were, at his current state. There is definitly work to be done and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Letting go and being in the moment are hardcore practices that involve blood and tears. Realizing your place in the dream takes discipline, not just an educated perspective. Both my parents are philosophy PhD's, they are perfect examples of the limitations of western intellectualism. Both have gone back to the wisdom of spirituality in their retirement and both are still very much in the dream. That's why the teachings of Buddha and the Taoist immortals are so precious. These catagory of teachings come from an enlightened mind. Which just means the divine has exceptional ways to call us back to our source. We should expect greatness from the divine. Not to would be missing half the fun. S

I think Rex has just been flushed out of the matrix.

Positive thinking would be the act of letting go. For example, cherishing others before self; or giving generously instead of hording. These are just tools. 0% clinging=enlightened thinking, not Buddha yet. In Dzogchen Vipassana is for practitioners who are already enlightened. Sentient beings can't actually do Vipassana. But we still do it to practice. Kind of like enlightenment warm ups or something. Anyway, it's interesting. S

Nothing to add. I think Your questions have already been answered in my post.

Holy shit, this is the best thing out there!

Of course, 100% enlightenment means beyond karma. Enlightened being just means thinking without ego clinging. Buddha is beyond thinking. In absolute terms, thinking does not really exist. In this sense, Sean's comments about enlightenment 'language' folding in on its self is definitly true. It's the reason we have to use thinking to realize teh nature of thinking which is clear, luminus being or Buddha nature. As for right view. View is the first step of understanding in the three I gave: understanding, experience and realization. I think I've explored this point as much as I care to, but you guys can do your own study. There are people who devote their entire life from childhood to teaching these concepts, so they are very clear in terms of what comprises Dzogchen and even Tibetan Buddhism in general. Your right in the sense that we don't start from nothing, because of course we already have Buddha nature. Without that there would be no way to become enlightened. S

I think Tsa was refering to these insights. The iron body is real!

I'm not an expert, but basically Dzogchen teaches us how to wake up to this realization. It's the illusion of suffering that we are trying to free ourselves from; the Buddha presented the idea that we should accept these conditions and operate within them. He said we should accept suffereing, but reject the cause which is our own negative thinking and negative karma. In doing this we begin to free our selves and others. We are all hoping for happiness and afraid of suffering. No animal wants to die; even if you poke a stick at an ant, it will run the other way. The Buddha wants us to go beyond hope and fear and start applying the truth to the illusion; this is where our true nature dwells. Beyond death, beyond hope and fear. I think it's too easy to talk about the absolute as if we were all immune to suffering. For example, if someone pointed a gun to your head, would you try and stop them? I bet your all one perfection would disapear pretty quick into the desire to seperate yourself from the bullet in the gun and you would be trying to get out of that situation somehow. Even if we do have some realization and less ego clinging, we still have the body and phenomena to deal with. This is what enlightened beings are working on; even though they don't have ego clinging they have karma that needs to be purified. This quote kind of sums up this idea, "All phenomena are my own mind. The nature of mind is primordially free from all extremes. I will effortlessly dipell my grasping of inherent existence." This is the work of enlightened beings according to Dzogchen. That's why the Buddha preached ethical discipline and pure conduct, not just meditation. He gave the eight fold path as a method to get from point A to Point B; from suffering to freedom. He said first practice moral discipline, then meditation or reflection and finally wisdom, dividing these into eight principles. We see this reflected in the Dao as well in the Chinese ideal of correct conduct and uprightness. It's the idea that we rigorously examine our daily activities and completely eliminate all of our faults. I think that's the basic idea, but I'm sure there is more that could be added. It a great topic.

Freedom from suffering is true happiness. The Buddha is beyond all suffering. As I read through your writing I think the main theme is the absolute. Maybe that's just what I'm getting. There's actually no teaching on this subject in terms of a practice. If you want to talk in absolute terms, it's better to be quiet. I think thanks actually want your saying, but it's like you say, you're just pointing. If you ask a Lama what is enlightenment like, they will just smile at you and say, "It's like Grandmother's house, everything is sweet." They say everyone has a little enlightenment already, but we all still have some seperation too. I think this seperation is a good thing; it's what allows us to return to the Dao. When ever we feel pain of Dukka as the Buddha called it, we see the way back to the Dao a little clearer. When I first met my Buddhism teacher, I was a little emotional. He say's taste your suffering and accept it or own it; do not reject your suffering, but reject it's cause. Of course we all have different degrees of suffering and some of you here may already be enlightened beings. I guess I haven't considered that. S

OMG, you are a Jedi. You have definity mastered immortal butt clenching; a very high level skill. Tsa, I think this is the proof your looking for. Game over. S

Cameron, I totally agree with you on so many levels, but Buddha is happy all the time; 24/7, all the days of the year. I don't think anyone can really say they don't have a bad day from time to time. There's more work and there are methods and they do help. We all have Buddha nature and we all have ego clingling; we are Buddhas in the making. The Buddha said you are all like precious jewels covered in the dirt of your suffering. Polish your nature and refine yourself until your true nature is reflected perfectly, but don't ignor the problems. I think adyshanti would say the same thing. He's just using skillfull means. You don't believe in special people? Why go to Adyshanti. If he's not special or at least more skilled at teaching and understanding Dharma then why go to him. In all fairness, I think this point is very clear. That's how I see it.

Sorry, I completely missed your second to last post there. I guess I believe in mystery too, but I think we do have control. I think the more realize our true nature the more control over our destiny we have. I think your ideas are pretty clear. The Buddhist would say self referes to your thinking which is there; if it wasn't you wouldn't be writing on this forum. For example, if you cannot find the thing that 'self' refers to, who is making questions and and who is hearing answers? I'm not comfortable with the answer nobody or nothing or silence. You wre talking a minute ago. It just sounds too easy, but as you say that's your experience and words don't really do it justice. I certainly can Indentify with that. I'm not suggesting you are in some form of escape, I'm just not sure I buy the idea that the Buddha was talking about what you are describing when he got up from the Bodhi tree and spent the next 45 years teaching Dharma. The guy was 'doing' and he was working his ass off doing it. I know you meditate regularly and I understand that this is your way of cultivating something. It sounds like your saying more awareness? Am I right? I really like the adyshanti quote you gave about cultivating light and love. It's a lot clearer than Just Stop. And it sounds way more in line with Buddhist thought in general. I still don't agree with you that all the Buddhists were using metaphoric language to describe something as obvious as just being or just being natural, but I definitly respect your views and your methods. And look forward to further insights. S

Hey Pat, I was addressing Sean's post. Sorry for the confusion. I'm glad you are on a wonderful creative journey. You obviously know how to have a good time. Nothing wrong with it. I'm not at the no fear level yet. I just want to know the truth for myself and be totally confident about it. I'm certainly not ready to die until I know more, but if it happens, hopefully I'll get to jam with Hendrix and have a good time whatever happens. S

That's the whole point of meditation in a nut shell. Whatever you focus on increases. If you keep worrying about how overweight you are over and over again throughout the day, for example, you will just get more unhappy and attached to the problem instead of finding a solution. This is a meditation just as much as sitting quietly is. Sitting quietly is just resting the mind and recharging. Sitting quietly with intention builds discipline and consentration. Conciously having good thoughts over and over again is far more effective in my opinion. Or even focusing on light or healing.

Tsa, I think what your doing is great, but the reality is that when you call Bill, he's not going to fly over to your house and start lighting shit on fire just so you can be satisfied that it's genuine. He's going to tell you to get to work on your practice and start your own experiment. He wants you to get the point of the whole process which is to find happiness. Then you can become a real Jedi like Max