DentyDao

Sometimes growth is painful. Whether something feels good or bad doesn't necessarily mean it is. For example, psycologists tell us that the personal satisfaction gained from revenge killing is one of the greatest highs and self esteme builders for the killer. But does it contribute to his personal growth? The idea of virtue is that it's about doing the right/correct thing, not just what feels good. It feels great to sit on the couch all day and drink beer while watching tv, but it's not really spiritual. I would say it's about what is going to give us lasting happiness, not about 'feeling' good; again the two don't always go together. It's important to find a good teacher who has both compassion and true knowledge. A good teacher gives you a third source of knowledge called experience. Once you have your own authentic experiences, the rest doesn't really matter. In the end we just need to trust what we are doing and have faith by following our hearts, it's true. But there are things we can do to skillfully clear our doubt and test our beliefs and these are important steps to take. S

Yep, I think we, in the west (or people in general for that matter), tend to associate 'feeling good' with being 'spiritual' on an uncouncious level. Obviously this is completely flawed as we often crave and get great pleasure from things that hurt us. Most of us are like the lab rat that keeps pressing the button for more and more cocain until it kills itself. The smart ones know they are killing themselves and wasting their lives, but most of us are unconcious. That's why the Taoists emphasize Virtue, always correct; which has nothing to do with 'getting off.' Spiritual practice can be a drug just like anything else; especially if we throw sex onto the fire. Some of course need to live in a fantasy; it becomes a way to self medicate the broken heart of the modern age. Of course, it's human to want to feel pleasure, in moderation and naturally without becoming self destructive or deluded.

It boggles my mind how people seem to miss this common sensical point. It's like insisting that your little red wagon you screwed togther in your garage is going to be just as fast as the guy with Ferrari. "Hey man, check out my fucking wagon. It's a time machine." Careful, if you keep this delusional fantasy going you could end up like this guy: http://revision3.com/webdrifter/foreveryoung Make sure you watch the whole interview, closely.

I would say, in losing your 'self' you find you true 'Self.'

I agree, it 's a good thing. I wouldn't worry about it.

I know

Yeah, you know what I mean.

That was really funny; puppetji lol I really liked "are you a puppet?"

Hey, Just thought that some might take an interest in a new video of John Chang that just came out. It aired on Sky satellite t.v. recently. David mentioned that he had seen it after a recent talk with shifu. I think the footage was captured in the late nineties at the high point of the Mo Pai relationship with western students; back when things were going well and John Chang was still talking about training a level four practitioner on every continent. I don't know why Shifu allowed it to be aired at this point, but perhaps it was done without his consent or maybe he felt enough time has passed and showing the video wouldn't be as big an issue... I suspect the former, but I'm not really sure. The whole thing is bitter sweet. I really feel that Shifu put his heart out there for those of us who are searching. Anyway, it's amazing to see. Dynamo Jack Video S

The original posted video was blocked, so here is another clip of the same thing for those who didn't get to see it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F36oHRfCR18

Good question. he has several projects going at the moment; I believe he is writing a book or a series of books at teh request of his teacher Wang Liping. I don't know if they will include his own reflections, but they will certainly give some good information relating to the practice and tradition he teaches in.

Lino, I'm not really clear what your question is, but there are many stages of development that happen before Yang Shen is achieved. There is an article posted on the foundation forum that basically gives and overview of the verious levels and stages that have to occur before Yang Shen is achieved. The Lei Shan Dao can basically functions as a base or foundation practice that allows the practioner to go further and eventually develop Yang Shen; a much higher level of refinement. S

The energy in the Lei Shan Dao is qi not electricity. Two different phenomina totally. Actually, there are schools that use electricity to help the process, but this is a different practice that has nothing to do with John Chang's teaching. Kostas (a metalurgical and chemical engineer by trade), for those that can remember the book, tested John Chang using special equipment designed to measure electrical output. Basically there was no electrical charge associated with John Chang's abilities. The combining of yin and yang in the dantian or Tai Ji is is strictly developed from neikung. In simple terms we can say Kundalini. Not the garden variety kundalini yoga we read about in new age books; this topic is very complex and a truely comprehensive discussion would require the input of a qualified master. People who haven't studied these practices tend to group this phenomina into one simplistic catagory when in reality, there are probably hundreds of methods that can produce the seemingly similar result of getting zapped by an "electric" force. Not all represent spiritual paths. When I met two different masters from different lineages, both of their qi felt totally different in feeling, sensation and intensity. The qi also extended throughout my body and not just at the point of contact; there is also the point that John Chang demonstrated his abilities naked making it difficult to imagine that some kind of divice is used as some have suggested. Anyway, the video on the Lei Shan Dao addresses some of these concepts for those interested. Also, David has written some fairly indepth articles on the topic that really helped me to understand what Tai Ji is actually and what the purpose of training to develop it would be. Yours, S

I just wanted to give an update on the video; I just reveived an advanced copy. It's very nicely done by one of David's students living in Thailand. The Video includes some Q&A from David as well as several demos of treatments, and Qi abilities common to the Lei Shan Dao. The demos are very good and include the water changing (discussed on another thread, pyrokenisis done by David's brother student, he lights a pile of straw on fire, very cool), the so called Yin Yang Gong and the "eye of heaven," the ability to see into the Human body to make a diagnosis. All very nicely done. There are some other interesting bits of news that I will leave for those interested to discover. Yours, S

edited

edited

Your welcome

From what I'm told, it's a video of one or several of David's teachers demonstrating skills similar to the skills John Chang demonstrates on the Blair video. David Shen also answers some questions on the video about the Lei Shan Dao (thunder and lightning path) and there are some people being treated by a Lei Shan Dao master. One of David's students shot the footage and is making it available on the Foundation Forum: http://foundation73.proboards55.com/ I think the video will just be available on the Foundation Forum. Best, S

No problem. There may be some more footage of some of David's masters in the next month or so, but I will have to check on it.

This is actually totally new footage. It hasn't been aired on Discovery... yet. As to the speculation about why Shifu Chang decided to let this demonstration be filmed, we need to look closely at the 'Magus of Java Story.' It's important to remember that, during the late nineties, Shifu Chang decided to break with tradition and, not only teach the practice, but allow a book to be written and begin systematically training a level four student for every continent. A nice dream... This is when his teacher raised his eyebrows, so to speak, and basically put a stop to the whole idea. Perhaps John Chang's master can see some harmful result that we cannot. I know that John Chang once discussed the collapse of the mythical city of Atlantis with his students and drew comparisons between the technology of Atlantis and Mo Pai. Whether he was just illustrating a point or speaking of the reality, who knows, but it was certainly on his mind.

Hey, No problem. You can log into the foundation forum and ask the man himself, David. He is usually more than happy to answer any and all questions. Just a little tease: John Chang was shocked when David performed telekenesis without the aid of John's yin qi. Most of the Mo Pai students were shocked too. They were dumb founded and John was at a loss for words. That's the story anyway. Best, Sean

Spyrelx, I'll humor you. Yes to all of the above except for David and myself (I have only been practicing one year). I have only heard others share what they have seen David do. From what I'm told, he can drink a glass of honey with his penis. Edit: I'll make a deal with you. When I develope some skills. I'll post the video on the forum here for your viewing pleasure. Maybe I can drink a beer with my dick and then put out the flames after my master lights a brush fire with his qi.

Hey guys, If you are that concerned, then don't go. It's really not for everyone. As for the old guy in the video, I have seen dozens of videos of this skill being performed. It's considered pretty low level stuff to be honest. In Mo Pai for example, all level two students have to do it with smaller objects. I personally wouldn't jump to any conclusions until I saw a good translation of the article and understood the context of what's being shown. You guys are welcome throw up a full cost analysis on the web and debate the pros and cons of what David is offering. If people want to go great, more power to them; if not, that's fine too. The real test is if you, by doing the training, can perform these skills. It's the only real way to know for sure. That's what David does; he trains people to be able to go through the the levels one, two and three, etc... All the rest is academic. I wish you guys all the best in searching. I can understand the doubts you are having, it's par for the course really. When I first met David, I gave him the third degree and a even pissed him off a little with all my questioning. Then I just decided to see for myself. Once I met some of his students and begin to experience it a little more, it just clicked and I knew it was for me. Not everyone is going to have this experience, but not everyone is right for it either. Not a bad or good thing. S