DentyDao

Definitly not... unless David says otherwise to you personally. In which case that would be between you and him.

Daoism is just another 'way' to transend the paradigm. First comes enlightenment and then comes equinimity. You can't skip to the good part, sorry. There is a subtle distinction here, the Buddha advised against 'chasing' happiness. He said the way to 'true happiness' is to eliminate craving for happiness. He didn't say happiness is overrated, quite the opposite actually. The Buddha wants you to be happy, this is very clear. And actually he did say we can have lasting happiness, he said this our natural state. You don't arrive at the end by thinking you can just start there and skip all the work. You can do the work many ways and different means will suit different people, but it's still work either way.

Jette sent me a letter explaining the reality of the prices for Denmark: Hi Sean Vidiami who has put this information on www.thetaobums.com should have cleared this whit me before starting this problem. There is a very clear policy about the price. The price for the seminar this summer is 1000 euro a week for people who never worked whit David or me before. People from the Danish group and people who have done seminars here in Denmark with David before pay a different price. We have made this policy about the price to make sure that all the new participants are really committed students. If the people that starts the practice this year comeback next year, they will of course pay the same price as everybody else. Please make this clear to everybody or better ask them to contact me if they have any questions. To make sure that every body gets the same answers I will suggest that any questions that has to do with the organisation of the seminar goes trough me. This is my job and David has plenty of other things to do. See you soon All the best, Jette David Shen and Jette's Forum for more info about pricing. http://www.foundation73.proboards55.com/

Desire is unavoidable. Your understanding of Buddhism is `inaccurate. Perhaps this direct statement will inspire you to untertake a more serious study of Buddhism. You should know what Buddhists really believe before you critic their beliefs. It's good to want liberation, good to want happiness. To think otherwise is insanity. In the great tradition of India, this is referred to as Sattwic ego or egoless ego. It's the act of total surrender, the return to wholeness, oneness. Ironically it is very much in line with many of sentiments, but your idea that the desire to go into 'silence' to 'let go' is not inherent in Daoism is misleading and a contradiction of your own statements. You your self meditate and follow a methodology and use techniques and attend workshops to learn how to deepen the process, so stop playing the Devil's advocate and just admit that you are equaly involved in striving for 'enlightenment' which is just another term for wholeness, aka non-dual equinimity. It's foolhearty to think you have 'arrived' when in truth the journey is far from over. Even enlightened beings understand the illusion of ego remains and there is more to strip away before total equinimity emerges. If this wasn't the case, you would drop this physical body this very instant as you read these words. Carefull, these persuits are indeed noble and those who make light or attempt to guide and teach others with guess work and assumptions may find themselves face to face with the hard light of reality burning such silly notions away. When you go to Adyshanti this Summer, ask his about these things face to face. You might be surprised; that's my feeling. S

P.S. I'd say it's about time for another round of fart jokes before we start taking ourselves too seriously. I don't know about you, but I'm going to go take a mental pause... and release. Feel the love people.

I have in turn edited my post regarding peoples sexual experience. Tushay! (or however you spell it) Let the smooth sailing continue!

Of course your right Cameron.... CONTENT EDITED FOR SHOCKING WITTY, BUT TOTALLY INFANTILE REMARKS I have edited my post, replacing Adyshanti's name with 'western spiritual guru.' I hope this more sensative approach will repair any love lost. As for my wife, let's just say she quite capable of defending her own honor.

My comment was not meant in a serious way. Adyshanti and his followers have my respect and since I have never met Ady, I'm not qualified to comment on his qualifications or his teaching. Just illustrating a point and, your right, I'm sure he could care less.

Sean makes some good points. I happen to agree with some of them. What I don't agree with is the idea that the Daoist masters in China some how fail to recognize these simple truths. What they offer is a profound understanding of the reality of the human condition. "The Dao, brought to you by the people who invented the Dao." These people are doing what all the others are doing, better. They coined the phrase, 'Be in the Now' and they invented 'letting go.' Wang Liping can 'non do' circles around your garden variety western guru. He'd have them driving a Benz and eating prime rib and lobster in a fortnight. Spiritual training takes us quicker and more effectively into the deepest level of our true nature. Saying that it's a subconscious rebellion against facing our true nature or some kind of escapism is the real escapism. Anyone who thinks this is some elaborate vanity or ego trip is going to be in for a rude awakening. Let me be very clear here. What you will learn in foundation training has nothing to do with superpowers or any of the ridicules ideas people want to project onto David and the masters he represents. Once you undertake this training, you will know how to cultivate your Dan and how to get it back if you lose it. This alone, if you are successful, would put you into the top .001 percent of people on the planet in terms of practical spiritual accomplishments. It's a tremendous blessing and comes with responsibilities and gives the ability to profoundly help others on the spiritual path. No popular guru or new age yogi can do this for you. Most of them haven't got a clue; with due exceptions of course and the understanding that there are different paths that require less understanding to reach certain accomplishments. Never mind Lei Shan Dao training, GOOD GRIEF, which you wouldn't be ready to undertake unless you are far beyond the first little flirtations with the awakening process. So I ask you again, do you want to play on the porch with the pooch, or do you want to run in the yard with the big dogs? Up to you.

Sean, you should take a look at the foundation forum. I'm sorry I have given this impression; I have tried my best to present my limited experiences and understanding. Obviously, my style and delivery has it's flaws; one of them is being bullheaded. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would send 100 taobums to China if it meant people would gain a broader picture of the rich diversity of China and a greater depth of understanding traditional Daoism. David and his teachers are anything but dogmatic. certainly no one is claiming to have all the answers. S

Since Yoda has declined with some lame excuse (I'm crushed btw), I would like to see Plato in the running. Just because I'm a personal fan and I know he has no bias; and of course he would have us laughing are asses off. Plus he is already a published author. My vote is for Plato, but of course who ever is chosen would make a fine canidate I'm sure. One thought would be to randomly choose from a group of willing participants. Just pool a list of names and let fate choose the one to go. Definitly, if this idea becomes a reality, there will be a book and we will have to ask David to authorize more disclosure regarding the practices and permission from the masters to speak with more depth about the training and the 'experiment.' they could just say no, but it couldn't hurt to ask either. The profits would of course go to create further opportunities for others, perferably the younger ones with legitmate financhel considerations. Also, we want a serious student, but there is no obligation to go through with the full commitment. That would be unfair to ask of anybody; the practice has to be right for the person who goes and there is a chance that it won't be a good fit. Of course, it would be great to fall in love and go foward to be successful in the practice, but again, it's just not something we would impose on the canidate for this venture. I only mention it because someone mentioned a three year requirement. It has to be a mutual thing.

I see this turning out to be another Taobums classic. I will personally contribute $1000.00 to whomever your group chooses, if you can get your act together and actually give this simple idea a chance. S

Those of you who know David, know that he has a truly adventurous spirit. I see no reason why he wouldn't take this proposal seriously. If enough people say they are interested, I will make request and draw up a proposal. I would also put Cameron and Max into the running. It would have to be someone very familiar with the Tao Bum community and also comfortable sharing their experience in a public way. It would also require someone who is mature, grounded and understands and respects that they are taking on a responsability to uphold the tradition set forth by the masters. This has to be done thoughtfully, but I think it's a great idea and I'm sincerely all for it. I would be happy to help set up a way for people to contribute to the effort, which David's approval of course, and/or advise and give input. And, I will personally contribute to the cost as well and ask the foundation forum to make a contribution. 2008!!!!

Darin, David would like to address some of your experiences in an essay for the forum. Just want to check if your comfortatble with that? Let me know, S

Dantians are cool/neeto...

We focus more on emptiness too, actually. Dantian... if anyone on this board can give an accurate explanation I would be quite shocked. Flabbergasted actually. Cameron's approach is correct. Still your mind, 'like unstirred ashes.'

What you did is not wrong. Not what I'm saying at all. It's the simple fact that, like so many who are obsessed with this PUA, you seem to delight in and overly focus on this minor aspect of Taoism which has relatively little to do with cultivation. Not to mention the, perhaps more unfortunit, fact that most of the sexual practices that are being talked about and referred to here have little to do with real Jiao Dao Yin (sexual cultivation) which has it's uses even if it does not lead to liberation or any achievement within a spiritual context on its own and falls in the category of a minor branch of the Dao. It shows a relative lack of understanding and is offensive because it tends to reduce Taoism to a vehicle for persuits of pleasure, which in themselves are fine but have nothing to do with serious cultivation and are actually very counter productive. Forgive me if I can't take seriously people like you and Plato who go on and on about getting laid and working on pychological mind games to get women into bed and then turn around and start weighing in on cultivation where you clearly have little actual understanding. Again there's nothing morally wrong with it; it just shows a lack of depth. If anyone should be giving commentarys, it's Darin, who amazingly devoted 10 years of his life to this practice like a scientist who cuts his own body to look at the function of the internal organs. Bravo Darin, in my book you are more knowledgable than most here, if only for the simple fact that you have some discipline not to mention the courage it takes to undergo this trail. I like TaoBums the idea. From time to time some very useful information and view points are presented. The other side is the fact that much of what is discussed here falls deeply into the category of fantasy and illusion. It's not like some terrible sin is being perpetrated, but it shows a bit of self obsession to be constantly discussing ones self improvement routine and going on and on about practices that give you this and that kind of orgasm. Most of this is harmless good fun, but when people start giving pretentious advice and throw in comments like: This discussion can get really idiotic. Much of the 'advice' here is just people who want to condesend to Darin and listin to how 'smart' they sound. A few have good suggestions; the only decent advice was to get a teacher, but this was quickly followed by assinine comments like: and These people just like to hear themselves give advice. They preach about manners and politeness whilst they verbally abuse members here so they ca feel good about how much they think they know. They are much worse of then Darin, believing they have a solid foundation and have arrived somewhere, when the reality they are still practicing Michael Winn's creative inventions. I'm sorry to be blunt, but there really is no other way of approaching the issue. I'm sure Spyrelx will be crying about what scum bag I am, but the reality is, he along with quite a few, have given Darin advice that stinks and added their theories and speculations into the mix to add further confusion. A few people made great suggestions, I wouldn't take away from their good intentions. If my comments touch a nerve I'm sorry, but after having spend the last decade plus as a serious seeker and the last five traveling around Europe and Asia and finally getting to settle into authentic Taoist practice, it's difficult for me to hear people presenting ficticious nonsense and useless theories to a man who is obviously sincere and reaching out in a real way.

Choose your weapon

Actually, this isn't really true. It is possible, in my experience, to learn quite a bit about the reality of these achievements before one has attained them. It's a gradual process; if you have a qualified teacher compassionate enough to educate you on the underlying principles, it's fairly uncomplicated to clearly see what is and isn't authentic in terms of achievement in a given spiritual path. For example, your comment about Bill Bodri's lack of understanding is totally off base. For one he has studied with a very qualified teacher and has dedicated his life to understanding and practicing the teaching passed down to him. He may not be enlightened or immortal, but he has enough wisdom and clarity to give the advice he did to Darin. His teacher, Master Nan, has trained with some very highly achieved masters in Taiwan and he is a respectable authority on what he teaches even if the Daoist aspect is limited to what is specifically taught in that lineage. Comments Like this one below that you made should not be taken lightly: I see nothing here that is helpful. First of all, the opposit is true. Bill is very qualified and many respectable practitioners have spoken highly of his teacher and his teacher's teachers. When you make unskillful, uninformed judgements, you should be careful to consider who you are serving; in this case you are only serving your own interests and belief system without any regard for the facts or the consequences of your 'helpful advice.' Actually, Karmicaly speaking, the result of spreading this kind of dishonest remark can be very harmful for the person making it. Especially if it is given in the context of advising someone in need of guidence. Most of, but not all, the advice given to others on this forum regarding what they should be practicing or what attitude to take in their practice is given by people who have also only explored Daoism on their own, without any formal knowledge or training. The level of unskillfullness and wasted energy that these interactions have the potential to create is real and people, myself included, should carefully reflect on what they are putting out there. In particular, the idea that anyone here is qualified assess Darin's progress or encourage him is ludicrious. The best response would be silence or, if you have some clear idea about what is truly involved in this type of practice that has been informed by a qualified master, to let Darin know that he is clearly out of his depth and should really stop these practices. Comments like, 'What I have have learned is go with the flow' or 'the Dao cannot be this or that' or 'you have already arrived Darin, be at peace' or 'Hey, I read a book that says you should live in the wild like an animal' are useless and just add to the confusion. Statements that are just totally false like, " John Chang did this and this' or 'Bill Bodri doesn't know anything' are even worse because they are totally incorrect, even if the people saying these things truly believe it. On the other hand there are some great comments thrown in the mix that will hopefully help Darin realize the absurdity of his approach; which is not to say he is at fault or some how 'wrong' for his couragous endeaver. Definitly he has some balls, which is more than can be said for some. Now he just needs to decide how badly he really wants it. Hi Pietro, Like some others, you have totally missed my point. After reading your interactions with Michelle D (totally hilarious by the way) this comes as no surprise. My comment was not directed at you and the above advice is totally fine.

Hey Darin, Yep, that's me. I found your experiences interesting, don't get me wrong. With your permission, I would be happy to relate your experience to my teacher and see what he says. Could be educational, for both of us. Perhaps I can convince him to provide you with some resources to reflect on. In anycase, best of luck, S

Hi Daren, Actually 12 or 13 is correct number. But, even this kind of training would require a enlightened teacher. What you have experienced is a fantasy and most of the advice given here is typical of the nonsense that is standard on this forum. People who haven't got a clue so willing to jump in and start advising you. Bill Bodri has some good training from Master Nan and the advice is sound. If you do Tapas or comparable training for the prescribed 12 years, you will reach enlightenment; but only with the grace of God/Tao and your teacher, if you are lucky enough to meet an accompished teacher in this life. I have studied John Chang's system and he is no where near the level you hoped to achieve in terms of shen development. His school does not even emphasize this training until the student is already technically immortal. As for the idea that it took John Chang more than 13 years achieve immortality, more BS. He actually achieved a very high level in a few short years when he decided he wanted to; and, not to mention, at the request and with the full authorization and approval of his master. I can't believe anyone would speculate on what John Chang has and hasn't done unless they knew the reality. Anything else only speaks to only itself. I have also studied Wang Liping's methods; he is at the level of yang shen that you hope to achieve, and is able duplicate his body multiple times; this is the true test as to whether you have been successful with this style of practice. Don't be a fool Darin. You have to be ready; even to begin this kind of practice requires years of proper training under the watchful eye of a very accomplished teacher who would only allow you to go into an undertaking of this magnitude if he or she knew you were ready and could safely complete the training without killing your self or going insane.

I hesitate to even show this video because, naturally, hundreds will go searching in vain to find this master. But, in the name of raising the consciousness of the planet, here is a secret, never before aired, video of a level four Lei Shan Dao master using the release method. What you are about to see has been documented by scientists and is every bit as real as the air we breathe. Please don't send me emails asking for the location of this individual. Thunder Path Method