DentyDao

It saddens my heart a bit only because I know David, out of respect for his masters wishes, would like to keep these discussions private. I'm caught between the two perspectives, but my heart says to respect and honor the wishes of someone like Shifu Wang Liping. He is such a beautiful and wise human being, surely it's possible that we could honor the gift that he has given us by respecting his simple wishes. Besides the above it would be far more useful to ask questions and comments to David so he can clear up unskillful views on these writings and let the truth shine for all to see. It is perhaps worth mentioning that David is currently on retreat with Shifu Wang Liping at his home and Northern China and Shifu has graciously offered to review the writing of this essay in particular through a hired translator to make sure that David gets it right. If your actions cause both my teacher and Shifu Wang to close the door that's opening, the karma of your actions affect us all. Rest assured, this is David's fear also. He is doing his best to bring this knowledge to light in the right way, with the respect and blessing of the masters. He has been shocked and deeply hurt by such suggestions is several conversatiions with him. Especially in light of the fact that the essay is just a rough draft and he wishes to add to it and expound on it futher in the weeks to come. He realizes this could very well happen, unfortunity, if it starts happening a lot the foundation forum will either come to an end or be reduced to a closed door forum. That's my two cents.

Okay Pat. My bad.

Let me just say this. When we develop wisdom, what might appear dogmatic, "Jesus was the son of God" becomes a metaphor for a deeper reality. The idea that we are all potential sons and daugthers of God or Dao is very true. At the same time, we need to be humble enough to except that the idea that eden or the garden or heaven or whatever is not "this" current condition, but also a story that reflects a deeper reality. I believe we have to seek it to find it, and part of what makes it so worth while is the fact that it is so challenging. Anyway, great discussion. I'm glad to have cleared the air with Pat. We have been communicating privately and come to, I think, a clearer understanding. I may not respect his opinions, but I respect him as a human being and his belief that we all have our own way and no one way is better or worse, just different with different results. That should have been my answer from the beginning, but we can't see all things. The issue of Traditional Daoist cultivation vs. western views on the subject, could have and should be a seperate issue. Here to me there are some clear misunderstandings that hopefully will come to light over the years, but again, this is a discussion on a seperate issue. S

Great questions. The story david told us about the old priest, actually tow diffrent guys, was amazing. One of them was a hermit living somewher near the Ukrane. Went David would go to visit him and listen to him answer question for the local villagers, the old man would become so full with divin he would levitate about three feet. Often totally unaware of it. David was in shocked and asked hi what kind of meditation he was doing and what techniques, etc... the saint just laaughed at his and replied that no such nonsense was the case. He just explained that when your heart is filled with the lord you become 'light' literally. We are all made up of light, I think any way. The second story was of a man who, a priest actually, who was probaly a Buddha, but is know passed away. David believed he was on a par with people like Wang Liping who can duplicate his body. Actually David does still teach the principles of the Christian Mystics, the real saints who undersatnd the teachings of Jesus without all the BS. He has a very strong Christian faith himself and often speaks of the holy spirit with great emotion, as does John Chang who's favorit advice is to pray to the lord daily with joy in your heart and tears in your eyes. Some of these Daoists are real Christian Mystics as well you know. I'm not kidding and David really does ask his students to pray every day and I do, simple bastard that I am.

Okay, I'll go (SeanD raises his hand and steps into the circle of loving Taobums, who all return his big toothy grin with smiles of encouragement; soft guitar music is being played and this, of course, is taking place around a fire at some old farmhouse that was converted into an ashram in the 70's and is now a summer camp where thirty/forty somethings come to have touchy feely workshops and look at eachothers butt during the yoga workshop) 1. Pat: Issue: Personality clash/difference in beliefs Pat, you are a big hearted guy who has a gift for sharing, perhaps do to your Irish (Just guessing) heritage. You have shown me what a reactive noodle head I can be. I'll keep that lesson. 2. Yoda: Issue: Huge personality clash/Starwars character envy Yoda, you took Yoda as your screen indentity. This deeply offended me because I wanted to be Yoda and no one can be Yoda but you now because you got him first. Your good quality is that you are quick on the draw and got a good screen identity that is very cool. I'm over it now and just want to be friends.

Hey, I just got a pretty sincere PM from Pat, Let's se if we can clear the air before bed here. Here's what I wrote back: Pat, I think we have both over reacted. Let's stop. I will leave you be and the whole thing is regretable. We are better than this BS, Both of us. And I think once the testonsterone is out of our blood streams we could actually have a civil discussion without the retoric on both sides. I'm an imperfect man, but I'm not an evil person. I do see peoples points, but I also like to challenge, I think it's healthy. Let's find a better way. I will be less abrasive and stop assuming and perhaps you can meet me half way. What do you say? Maybe we could really surprise people and do something really funny to blow peoples mind's a bit and clear the air. I can start calling David a gerk and you can say you've signed up for his course Now that would throw people for a loop, ay. Anyway, Your point about the Tao being from the heart and available to everyone of us is the one thing I definitly agree with here. David is a good man.

That would be fine. Really for my part I'm done with it. The whole thing is a waste of space, my part included. Just stupid pride on all sides. Pat, spyrolex. Obviously we have strong differences. I don't think were are going to get anywhere with this and we just need to zip it and move on for the sake of the board Sincerely, I do apologize for the sarcastic insults. It would have been much much better for all of to just let it go in the first place. We've all got bigger fish to fry here. Perhaps it would be better if none of us talks to each other as derek suggests. Peace guys. Let's let sleeping dogs lie. Maybe in a few days we can just laugh at what a bunch og idiots we are Time for a long meditation and a bath followed by a nice cigar. I still have 12 days of bachilorhood and need to make better use of my time. I'm going to take those twelve days to rest from the forum and give you guys your day.

Hey Grand T, Just reregister if you like. Trunk, Nice idea. Something for the future I'm sure.

You know after thinking about this, It's clear that Pat really knows how to push my buttons as well. His insults about my teacher from the beginning have really gotten the best of me, in the sense that I would like nothing more than to see him embarressed. Stupid I know. Pat, you don't just insult me, but the 20 or so members of the foundation forum who will be training with David in Asia and Denmark this Summer, all of whom, or at least most, found David through my posts on this forum. I guess my point is they deserve better than your hate filled BS. Your insults also reach further to all of David's students and teachers, hundreds if not more. Your comments are ignorent and abusive. You also insult David and his teachers who you know nothing about. Yes, my sarcastic humor is sometimes out of line, but your crap and this challenge to a dual are truly sick and I think you are sick person and dislike you as much or more as you do me. I'm making a break here with the insults and will ignor your offensive, dumb ideas and continue to present David's work, letting it speak for itself and the truth of the matter be expressed by the many who will go and have their hopes and dreams confirmed as I have. I just visited some of my very first posts on the topic and my posts only confirm this pattern. There were attacks and rude silly remarks from the begining and the people who have been drawn to David have been interested from the begining. At some point I lost patience with you and I should know better.

I'm single for two weeks. The wife and kid are in FL on Vacation. Let's just say I manage my time well Don't ask don't tell. He he You're on the net as much as anyone here. You just spent an hour coming up with some lam whitty come back and your telling me to get a life. A shit you're right Buy guys. It's been fun.

Neal's power knows no limit when it comes to bringing people together with love, and I'm not talking about some hippy, flower love; I'm talking about hot, juicy, wet, freaky love baby.

Actually this post has something like 4,000 views. The reptilian brain needs porn. Which is basically what this thread is. If you can't beat them join them... sometimes the best advice.

And I in turn will show you my sweet and shocking skills... of fart-jitzu. My ass is like qi canon. One belch from my harry backside and you will looking for your glasses, dentures and your hair piece for the next millenium. Don't be Jealous of my sweet sexy body baby: Don't cha wish your gilfriend was hot like me? Don't cha? Don't cha? Fun like me, raw like me, a freak like me? Don't cha? On the flip side... we could have another sexy party. Sweet, hot, sweaty sex party. Sex party whoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You like?

Weird can be so good or bad if you're naughty.

Here

There's no irony, all is fair in love and war. You should know that by now sweet heart. Any way, you know how I feel aboout you. You're so hot, cute and sweet, who could resist your charms? Will never, ever, wever, post a PM again if that means I more noble in your sweet big eyes. Actual image of SeanD

I guess we can keep it going if you really want to, I'm not sure what the point would be and can't imagine what's driving you in your obession, but just the same, feel free to spend your time however you like. Perhaps your 'ignor' brain cells have malfunctioned? I'm not really sure what your problem is to be honest. You keep posting to me about your outrage and I keep telling you that there is no point. I guess this will probably never end. Since it seems to be you doing all the work to confront me, I will continue to respeond as time allows until you have exhausted your shame I suppose.

Both books are fine.

If you really cared about me, and please do spare me your internet compassion, you would have respected my position and feeling about your behavior toward me which I find equally rude and offensive even if you continue to suggest that I somehow don't get it and you are just condesending to me out of pity. You say you care about me, well I don't share the feeling. When are you going to get that? When you are an achieved boddhisattva then you can go around condesending to people with imaginations of compassionate feelings. But, until that time fix yourself first and stop making this about you you you with comments like, "I know I'm a rude person, but you are more rude than me and therefore I pass judgements about you for your own good." My relationship with David is my business not yours. Listen, I'm a pretty stubborn goat; seven years of marriage and having kids will do that to a person. I'm a regular person not a saint. Your sentiments are misguided and offensive and childish. Anyone who shows the level of interest in my personal behavior that you have is a bit off balance in my book. There's really nothing else I can say.

Thanks for understanding. David can't really defend his words on the Taobums. Plus people would get a clearer picture and have questions answered more skillfully from David himself who has asked his master Shifu Wang Liping to weigh in as well and make sure he is giving the correct advice... from a master who has achieved the abilities we all want to know about. Cheers, Sean

Don't be silly, on the contrary this is probably an exception. I don't know what David will say, but I'm all for it.

This should be interesting