rsalazar

Hello Sifu Dunn and Sifu Hearfield,

Many thanks for all the great information - I just got the dvds and I have a lot to learn - I look forward to learning and practicing FP.

All the best,

R

Hello Rene,

 

I recognize your name from one the orders we recently received. Your DVD's are on their way.

 

to answer your question, as I mentioned I think in a prior posting, I have video footage of GM Doo Wai finishing the 14th seated meditation in the series called "Monk Serves Wine", which is part of the Flying Phoenix system. At the end of exercise, as his forearms swing forward toward the camera and his palms turn upward, all the space around him turns a bright luminous blue, the normal background of the shot (wall behind him) cannot be seen. Then the blue lifts like a cloud--but not like a cloud. It just lifts off and the normal background is seen again. GM Doo Wai regularly told us that the blue auric luminosity is just a side effect of FP practice... that it's nothing special--just practice daily for a few months and then videotape yourself. But to me, whether you see it or not, it feels absolutely divine.

 

Last year i was introduced to a renowned auric energy researcher at UCLA named Dr. Valerie Hunt who's in her 90's. But our meetings and conversations haven't developed into any study that makes sense and that I believe would benefit the art or society in general.

 

Yes, Sifu Garry Hearfield is correct, GMDW has been studied and measured with medical instruments over the years. The GM told me that he wasextensively monitored by the head of the Naval Hospital in Long Beach I think in the 1980's. One demo GM said was monitored: GMDW had consciously stopped his earth rate for 20 seconds. I don't know what else was studied by the Navy's doctors. On a different occasion, GMDW's San Diego student, Kevin Ulmer, now living in Tennesee, told me that the GM had Kevin reach in with his fingers around his sternum and left rib cage and then the GM stopped his heart so that it rested like heavy lump on Kevin's fingertips. This of course totally, totally freaked Kevin out. [such feats of stopping normally involuntary organ functions at will is a well-documented capability of all masters of high yogas, and is talked about matter-of-factly by W.Y. Evans-Wentz in his classic 1935 tome "Tibetan Yoga and Secret Practices"--see chapter on "Yoga of Psychic Heat."

GMDW is/was definitely a high master of Chinese yoga, because he could recognize another kung-fu master's art and power level from seeing how he breathed. Which further shows the timeless truth of: If you've masted one Yoga, you've mastered them All. (91-yr old Taoist Master Share K. Lew is the same way: he can look at how a person walked and know whether he practiced kung-fu or not; he could also tell whether the art he practiced was northern or southern kung-fu--just by seeing his posture and how he walked.)

 

To answer your question re difference betw Flying Phoenix and Tai Chi Ruler:

they are very, very different arts.

GM Doo Wai's oral history tells us that the FP was created by Feng Tao Teh in the early 1600's. what arts he derived FP from and how old they were, no one knows.

 

TC Ruler was purportedly created by the same yogin, Chen Hsi-I, who created 6Harmonies/8methods Boxing, and a powerful "sleeping yoga" during the Sung Dynasty (11th century).

 

There's no relation whatsoever. Or very much similarity. TC Ruler is very much shen-cultivating as one's eyes are focussed on the center of the ruler throughout practice; FP practice is 99% done with eyes closed.

TC Ruler breathing can be done with inhalation through nose and exhalation thru mouth (for cleansing); FP breathing is always through the nose (except for the last final (3rd) exhalation taken to end practice of an exercise).

TC Ruler practice goes about 1/3 speed of Tai Chi Chuan practice; FP movement can be as slow as the human body can possibly move: following the oral teaching: "move at the speed of a shifting sand dune."

So they are very, very, very x 10 very different!

 

Enjoy your FP practice, Rene!

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

Hello Sifu Dunn,

Many thanks for all the fascinating information on this system - I was especially interested on the effects on body luminosity that is a side effect of the Flying Phoenix system. Has anyone documented this on video or with any instruments? That would be very cool to doc this - I was also wondering if you could comment on the differences between the Flying Phoenix system and the taichi ruler system.

All the best,

Rene'

Garry,

 

Thanks for helping out with additional good advice. I forgot to mention that the three full "priming" breathes at the start of every one of GM Doo Wai's meditations (including all of the Flying Phoenix meditations) gives one the "reference" for 100% breath capacity.

 

Terry

Hi Drew,

Yeah, the base technique is really one of the simplest things I've seen - I think the recent upsurge in marketing their stress monitor has obscured the fact that the tech itself is very simple - they do have some other interesting applications, such as their designer music,which augments the effects from the meditation, although I must confess I don't really enjoy it - also interesting that BT designs his music to elicit physiological brain changes (or at least he tries, check out his "This Binary Universe" for some very relaxing stuff) - going back to the Heartmath technique, to register changes within such a short period of time (as opposed of hours ) is still hard for me to accept, but they have the data (EEG, heart rate variability, DHEA levels), I can pass on some collected papers to anyone interested - The tech is very similar to Buddhist contemplation of compassion, here is their stripped down version:

1. Focus attention on the heart area

2. Pretend or viz breathing energy in and out of this area

3. As you continue to breath, become aware of anything that elicits feelings of gratitude

At this point, you can continue like this or you can try and access any intuitive feelings by asking your heart if it has anything it wants to say.

This basic tech can be done at any time throughout the day, especially as a pause when experiencing stressful situations - data indicates that just shift of focus to the heart area has almost immediate effects on physiology - although one may not reach more sublime heights of samadhi from this tech, it certainly is not a bad tech to use as training wheels to gain greater control of the physical body - I believe that this is probably one of the best techs for those of us that don't time to do extensive sitting, multiple short sessions of practice throughout the day may add up to something that still has benefits - this also repeatedly engages your own self-awareness, forcing you to observe yourself constantly, which is also a form of cultivation.

I'd be very interested in hearing for anyone that has practiced any of the Heartmath techs.

All the best for the New Year and cheers,

Rene'

Thanks -- your response was more clear than my perusing an hours worth of HeartMath propaganda. haha. I even listened to his radio interview.

Actually, if you read the website, they give you the basic technique, which is just focusing attention on the heart, using imagination to viz breathing out of the heart region - the book gives variations on this tech, but I must say, this group has some interesting research, more than most groups in the West (with the possible exception of Tiller's group) - Heartmath has published articles in Circulation, which is a well-regarded journal in physiology research circles.

The other thing that impresses me about their research is that they can register stress level reductions (as measured by heart rate variability) with seconds of using their viz protocols.

If nothing else, if you gain better opening of energy circulation in the heart area, you will help prevent a lot of energy blockages along the way, IMHO.

R

Here's my new blog post -- just a review of HeartMath:

 

http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot...f-universe.html

 

There's some interesting research on this stuff -- basically it's a biofeedback program for the heart rhythm variability.

I had always thought that standing practices were used to help circulate energy that is cultivated in the sitting practices.

On a more physical level, I notice (at least in my superficial experience) that my body feels much more integrated when I include regular standing.

Can anyone elaborate?

R

Explain please. You guys are close...I'll wait too see if anyone answers totally.

Drew,

Thanks for posting your interesting experiences - I was wondering if Chunyi Lin has commented on your "O's at a Ds"? It seems to me that there is a risk in indulging this type of activity, something that will only further your attachment to your ego and sex in general - is this the reason behind the general warning against "crushes"?

Cheers,

R

----------------------------

Most importantly I was innocent -- I didn't realize that this training would turn me into a chick-magnet. I didn't realize that electromagnetic energy was the secret to mutual climaxes.

That's why Chunyi Lin would say not to develop crushes

 

 

Hey, Drew what did you mean by that statement? Because your chi would influence other females? Or did he mean this for the women in class so they would not suck the energy of others?

 

A lot of the old traditions and cultures while carrying some amazing truths - at the same time carry all kind of junk as well. A lot of junk and mistakes that lost their initial meaning and become most of the time exactly the opposite to what they were supposed to be initially.

I hear ya on this - unfortunately, depending on how clear transmission has been, there is a lot of noise that sometimes needs to be filtered out - kind of like the telephone game - in the end, I agree that each individual needs to think on things and make decisions based on what makes sense for them . . .

Hey Enouch,

Very cool article, I had not seen this, interesting to see how many developments may take time to reach widespread use - here's another interesting article on a fairly simple oil and its potential role in HIV therapeutics:

http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/article10526.pdf

Cheers,

R

Hi Baguakid,

That is *really* interesting! How long would he have to practice in order to see some of this waste come out his feet? Did you ever see this with your own practice? Any recommended resources for this detoxification art?

Did he ever use his art in conjunction with herbal detox regimes?

Cheers,

R

An added benefit of Wuji (hands down by sides) is detoxification.

 

Damp, cold Qi is led out of the body through Yong Quan point.

 

 

The whole purpose of his art is to detoxify and build qi. He taught me what he called Embryonic Zhan Zhuang. A static position for the purpose of detoxifying and building internal strength.

Oh, more about this guy. He would show me his feet on occasion when I came to class and you could see the damp garbage which was coming out of his body through his feet. Very interesting.

Double true that Ninpo

Some of the best players I've seen, especially angoleiros, almost appear like they are stumbling around, while controlling the game the whole time.

Capoeira is capoeira, I also agree. I think some people forget that it is an art and game first, it evolved to give an oppressed people an outlet and keep their spirit alive - capoeira is not just about the movements and isn't complete until you also learn singing, playing the instruments, as well as all the other formalities. Movement and beauty. Of course, I'm in this art to have fun and keep myself agile, not to become a soldier.

There are offshoots that have tried to make this about "fighting" (the really good players can make a lot of the moves work, but if they are taken down, it's all about grappling), but this is not what it's about - I've been around some ugly rodas where fighting has erupted, this is when people let their emotions get the best of them (forgetting this is a game) and it devolved into simple human violence, which is never pretty.

R

PS Daochild, keep in mind this thread was started as a light hearted joke

 

If you have some other Martial Arts experience it's easier to learn and understand and therefore, apply this art in actual usage. Kind of like learning Monkey or drunken form gong fu, it is a higher level in some ways as it requires a lot of flexibility and some previous Martial knowledge is needed in order to actually make it work well. Having said that there are plenty of stories of masters using it and being successful with it.

Yep, I view this art as just a way of body conditioning and can certainly add to your movement repertoire - some of the most interesting groundwork I've seen has been with capoeira angola (first 2 clips I posted are examples), the players usually spend most of their time on all fours, which in itself is a great workout.

Some of the best examples of longevity and optimization of physical potential I've also seen in older players (such as Nestor Capoeira, in his 70's, other teachers in their 40's and 50's that can still do gymnastic moves), all without any neigong, just physical conditioning - you can also see this in dancers.

Although the art has deeper spiritual aspects, these are mostly spiritual practices, such as candomble, which involve connection with deities such as the Orishas. Not all players necessarily participate in these aspects.

R

Ya, that is one of the problems with it, once someone closes the distance it is often rather easy to shut one of them down if they don't have space to move. I believe 'regional capoeira' does use groundwork, however, I may be wrong on that, it's a long time ago I remember possibly reading words to that effect, for sure it uses takedowns as in throws though.

 

Still, it's a lovely art, but it's wise to remember they often focus on the aesthetic, it is after all part dance nowadays. I have to say, if you have studied some kind of martial art it's well worth looking in to.

 

wesley snipes does/did(?) regional, 10th dan apparently.

At the minimum, this art can be a great adjunct to any agility program, expanding a lot of possibilities while having a lot of fun. Keep in mind, in the roda, all movement is improvised, flow is where it's at.

For some real capoeira (the actual art), check these clips:

Cabello and Glauber - a beautiful game

Cabello and Noa

Cambridge roda

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/v...p?v=35587226225

Lateef Crowder and Tony Jaa - no improvisation here, but still very entertaining choreography

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW0nEHEWGdA

Cheers,

R

More about how people are making fun of this Brazilian dance:

 

 

Hahahahaha.

 

Hi Yoda,

Yeah, you also see this in African traditions frequently, where the ancestral link is the closest to our plane and therefore the channel with the strongest signal - The influence of the ancestors, from my superficial view, seems almost like a type of ethereal genetic code, their energetic link seems to be a feedback loop where they can influence us and we also can help them, which also helps us.

R

so coming from a secular/Christian/Buddhist background before becoming a Taoist, I was always pretty used to the concept that enlightenment/development/salvation/etc is an individual thing and assumed it was more or less the same deal for Taoism.

 

I'm surprised to learn how collective a program it is at least in some forms of Taoism... One's individual actions count the most but the actions of one's parents, spouse, and children seem to come in at a very close second.

 

Very much like the Hebrew notion of the sins of the fathers can go for ten generations type thing.

 

I've heard that the Christians and Catholics are softening their approach in China and allowing ancestral worship.

 

I've heard it said that modern religions are all individual oriented and the old ones are more family oriented.

 

Maybe Taoism is old school like that?

 

Yoda

Hello,

Very interesting discussion - I'm assuming because the internal (neigong) schools use no overt external sources for energy that this is the reason this protective ability may take a bit longer to cultivate than other schools that use external sources - I've heard stories of practitioners in other schools (African) that use energy (presumably a type of yin power) from the dead to give them their protection from physical threats - I remember talking to a younger initiate who had a fairly strong connection in this regard, another person was thrown against a wall when the initiate was being accosted, but I was not there to see this.

Cheers,

Rene'

I can't say the first one except that theres rules. And keyword I had mentioned before was "Passed" Level 2 Training.

 

@Enouch - Pretty much what I said before still stands being some schools train alittle while for that and get it over with.. As with mo pai it'll take until you have the yin energy for it, and even then you have to be ready for it.

Different story with John Chang though.

Cool thread

If push comes to shove and I just want to get the effect, I'll just cut off a chunk of ginger, shave off the skin, then chew it quickly and down it with a lot of water - I'll usually do this if I'm not too lazy before breakfast and it always keeps my stomach running smoothly.

R

Yeah gingers great =P.. I usually get it from ginger ale

Funny story Ya Mu

I started going grey in my 20's, it's a genetic thing since my mother had the same experience - I have used the tonic drink (Shou Wu Chih that you can get in most Asian markets) over the years and notice that after taking this at around 2 shots per day for 1-2 months the appearance of half black, half white hairs (with a black root), nothing dramatic but enough to take note, since the only time I saw this was when drinking the shou wu chih - Unfortunately, I was never consistent with the usage, but I suspect that I might see more visible changes if I would take this over a much longer period of time, like at least a year. I'm currently giving this a go.

Cheers,

R

Ho Shou Wu

 

Can't tell you best source but how about a ho shou wu story?

 

I had traveled to the largest herb market in China and wanted to pick up a few things, one of them being Ho Shou Wu... My problem was that my Chinese language skills sucked (and still do). This market had several acres of herb/mineral/animal - every single ingredient that Chinese Herbal Medicine offers. Amazing! So I first looked for Ho Shou Wu but couldn't find it. So I made the error of asking someone about it. So it turned into an hr long thing ending up with about 300 Chinese doctors, pharmacists, and herb suppliers trying to assist me - all at once. It went something like this I asked Ho Sou Wu - everyone gave me this puzzled look so I tried varying the tonalities - he shoe wa, hoe shoe wu, hush sho wooo, hesh show wooo, he shoe waa - you get the drift. Finally one doctor exclaimed "ahhh! Ho Shu Wu" - which sounded to me exactly like the first thing I asked for. What an experience!

 

I have seen the herb change people born with black hair that has turned grey back to black.

After hearing some of the stories about Robert Peng I managed to attend a seminar of his in June 2007. He did a few interesting demos, but he didn't "zap" anyone at the seminar.

I have seen quite a few teachers over the years, and have even been told fairly interesting info, but I've never had the undeniable, even almost painful experience where I knew I wasn't just dreaming. This was not just my imagination.

After over six months on a waiting list, I got a call from Robert at the last minute that he had an opening in January 2008. The guy was booked solid and he otherwise could not take any new clients. I figured this might be my only chance to see him, so there I was in a 4th floor office on the upper east side of Manhattan on a rainy, dreary day. After filling out the requisite patient questionaire, he led me into a room with a table. Robert is a very unassuming guy, wearing an orange tee and slacks and looks like any other average person, nothing unusual. We chatted for a minute about my possible problem areas, then I lay on my back on the table. After a couple of passes which resembled what you'd see some reiki practitioners do, I was wondering if I would actually feel the electric zapping that others have told me about. He then unobtrusively and lightly put his finger between my eyes. POP! POP! POP! I had the unmistakable sensation of an electrical current going between my eyes and I could "feel" a feathering of electricity covering halfway over my eyes. The "electrical" pulses lasted for 2-3 seconds, and this was good because the sensation was bordering on the painful. No, this was not my imagination. I was awake and it was intense, almost like a jackhammer in my skull. The pulses reminded me of the crackling you hear near a power line or a taser. Pressure waves seemed to coincide with the popping sounds. He put his fingers by my temples. Again, the popping sound was unmistakable and, fortunately, not as intense as the third eye area. When treating some points on the side of my nose, I felt the pulses travel down to the roots of my teeth. This was not painful, but the pressure I felt was again intense. I had my eyes closed during most of the head treatment. I was curious if these pulses might fire off any visually generated symptoms, but I saw no colors or anything other than a general blackness.

He treated a few points in the trapezius and, just like in the Blair video of John Chang, my trapezius as well as neck muscles contracted. The contraction also happened when treating points in my arm. It's interesting that the contraction did not happen in all areas. For example, no facial muscles contracted when treating these areas, nor in the fingers when these were treated, despite the feeling that the pulse was of the same intensity as other areas.

I watched closely as he put one of his middle fingers on my hand to zap through some meridians. He only lightly touched my finger tips as I felt the intense "electrical" pulse travel about halfway down the first phalange. I saw no spark or light that you might associate with a regular electric shock. It did, though, have a similar feeling to sticking your finger into an electric outlet, but without the pain.

While treating points at the top of my head, I could feel pulses at the bottom of my heels, although this was less intense.

He pointed out to me a general protocol that anyone could use to promote good energy flow would be to stimulate Hoku (LI4), zusanli (St36) and Bubbling Well (K1) twice a day. It was interesting to see his optimal way of stimulating St36, which was by chopping at the point with the side of the hand.

Robert told me that he met John Blair a while back and zapped him after Blair requested this. Blair had been treated by Chang and wanted to compare the sensations. Afterwards, he said Blair stated this was the same sensation he had in Indonesia.

While the shocks were pretty dramatic at the time, I left his office with no lingering sensations, no bliss, etc. Of course everyone will have a different experience depending on their individual condition at the time. For me, it was a very eye-opening experience, to say the least.

Although always better to learn something from a teacher, I must say Geoff Pikes "The Power of Chi" is a great resource on a set of Eight Brocades he learned from a teacher in the Phililpines when he was undergoing radiotherapy, he credits this practice as helping him to recover faster from the radiation - Also interesting that the original edition also mentions some interesting stories that are not included in later editions, very interesting - I would also recommend Stuart Olson's "Teachings of a taoist immortal" for another version of the Eight Brocades (Eight Silken Forms) which are connected with Li Chun Yin, a variation that is done in a seated position, which also incorporated hitting and slapping as a warm up to "loosen" the channels before the actual qigong. I'm hoping some of the bums with more experience can comment on these 2 works, since at least in my small experience, these simple practices have had a profound experience with me over the years, I find myself going back to these practices as time goes on.

Cheers,

Rene'

Hello,

From what I've heard of wafu, this is the art of using "fu" or talismans for healing - if this is what you seek, there is a Taoist teacher who specializes in this, check out Mak Tin Si's site, www.daoismworld.com

Cheers,

Rene'

Hi Folks,

Does anyone have any info on of knows of any practioners of the buddhist spirtual healing art of wafu ( wah fa ) ?

cheers

kitherapyworks

Hello Trunk,

Many thanks for the reminder, this is exactly what I experienced and helps answer a lot of questions. Kudos for maintaining your site, valuable information here.

Cheers,

R

I hate to be redundant... but if you look in the Iron Shirt 1 section of alchemicaltaoism.com there's info on this topic, including posts from 3 different senior HT instructors.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to the thread:

I did get negative side effects from the packing breathing, so I would caution everyone to be very careful with this - I realize that a lot of this had to do with me and how internally clogged up I was at the time, but nevertheless, I was told by someone back in 1994 at an HT retreat that packing was no longer being emphasized because people were either straining too much or otherwise putting excessive effort into this and hurting themselves - I personally was doing the packing breathing in Embracing the Tree every day until I had the distinct feeling that I was not getting enough breath into my lungs, it was the most peculiar thing, like I was constantly short of breath no matter what, these symptoms started quite suddenly - the alarm bells went off and I stopped the packing practice shortly thereafter - symptoms quickly went away after this.

In the end, we all have different constitutions and we will naturally get different effects from different practices, much in my opinion has to do with how "clean" our engine is to begin with - exercise your bodily awareness constantly so you can monitor any ongoing changes, be alert to anything that might signal the start of a problem.

Be well.

http://www.lookatvietnam.com/2009/07/indig...t-medicine.html

Hello froggie,

Very cool info, reminds me of how tien chi ginseng/ yunnan baiyao was used during the Vietnam War for the treatment of injuries - do you know of any patent meds that use this particular ginseng?

Cheers,

Rene'

Looking for books, dvds on Chinese style Buddhist and Daoist Palmistry /reading?

 

Anyone have any good ones?

 

regards

Ape

Hello Ape,

One good resource for this (as far as I've seen) is Terence Dukes' "Chinese Hand Analysis", there are some other pubs on hand reading from Japan Publications that are of note - on another perspective, Benham's book on hand reading is one of the singular most extensive works on the subject that I've returned to again and again over the years.

Cheers,

R

Hello Tactile,

Interesting note about the antinutrients, this was also a concern of mine in the beginning as well, but it may actually be the opposite - Campbell addresses this common objection and notes that most studies on this seem to show better absorption overall, which seems counterintuitive - Check out The China Study for more here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=FIRLLcLjy...YG4GczQSDmZTOBA

Cheers,

R