turbo

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Posts posted by turbo

  1. Posted

    I'm all signed up too. It would be cool if we could all get lunch and hang out after the class on Saturday (Sunday too, time permitting). I think it would be ideal to hang out at a park or other scenic natural area, maybe even go for a hike or a walk. Cameron, do you have any ideas?

     

    Maybe we can get a group rate at the Courtyard and save a little dough. Mantra, can you call and see if they would be willing to give a group rate to attendees of the class?

     

    I'm looking forward to the class and meeting the people behind the messages.

  3. Posted

    Hi Turbo. thanks for your post and I hope you'll keep filling us in on how kunlun is going for you. I'm wondering what brought about you stopping AYP?

     

    Also, same question for you Yoda.

     

    I quit doing AYP because I started to wonder about the differences between yogic and buddhist enlightenment. The more I looked around the less good information I could find. I had read that the Buddha had tried all schools of spirituality that had come before to achieve enlightenment. Thus, he must have tried yoga. Therefore I assumed that yogic techniques would not take me all the way to full enlightenment. Which is the goal, right?

     

    So at the beginning of this year I returned to the practice of annapana and vipassana, which I had practiced before. However, the buddhist meditation did not have the same "hook". The AYP meditation made be feel great and I had some profound experiences practicing it. I was no longer getting this, so I lost interest and quit meditating, became more social, drank more beer (mmm), and quit worrying about my eventual enlightenment.

     

    In the last few months I've tried to get back into the AYP stuff with little success...dunno why, its just not sticking like it used to. It used to seem pretty effortless, now it seems like a lot of work.

     

    Kunlun seems very interesting to me, as I am having sensations and experiences that took a long time to experience with AYP. So it possibly is the "shortest path to re-enlighenment" as is claimed. Which would be great, then I could get enlightened, stop meditating, and get back to drinking beer (mmm) even faster. B)

  4. Posted

    My last serious endeavor into spiritual practice was the AYP system, which I practiced daily for over a year. As a result I had some interesting and powerful experiences, similar to what the Kunlun practitioners describe. The wealth of my spiritual cultivation knowledge comes from the AYP system, my experiences with it, and my intellectual study of yoga. I believe that one valid spiritual system has more or less the same effects as another, in other words its the same process, just approached in a different manner.

     

    In AYP and yoga the goal is to achieve emptiness and bliss and eventually combine/merge these energies. From reading this discussion it seems like Kunlun aims to achieve the same thing. Yogani says that this combination is enlightenment, I'm not so sure.

     

    I quit AYP around the beginning of 2007 and have since not been getting back into it. Recently I began practicing the stage 1 Kunlun practice which has induced similar experiences to those of the meditative practices of AYP. Specifically: involuntary movment, shaking of the body, and tingling sensations all over my body, although these, particularly the movement, is more pronounced with Kunlun practice. I have only been doing Kunlun from the book for 5 days and have not attended any seminars or had any kind of transmission.

     

    In the wrap up part with the hands at the dan-tien I have some sensation of energy...what I perceive as a ball floating half on and half in water...around the dan-tien area.

     

    I generally feel more cheerful since starting Kunlun, but it could be from a number of things as things are going well for me.

     

    There may be some dangers to the practice of Kunlun, but one should be able to overcome these with careful self observation and by applying the self-pacing approach advocated on the AYP website. (applying common sense will help too) It will take more practice to be able to give a true assessment of the Kunlun practice, but for now it seems to be worthy of pursuit.

  8. Posted

    Trunk,

     

    I skimmed the essay, and did not find any mention of what period of time you consider retention. A week, two, a month? When is one practicing retention versus general energy management? ie: I'd better not tonight as I've got a big day tomorrow.

     

    Thanks for the wisdom on your site, its a gold mine.

  13. Posted

    People who have their spleen removed continue to have an "energetic" spleen that satisfies the role of a spleen under TCM, or so I have been told by an acupuncturist.

     

    Applying the underlying idea to your thyroid would result in the physical removal of your glands, but their energetic presence remaining.

     

    Whether this is valid or not, nobody can say unless they have had the procedure already. There may be some comparison to people who have had vasectomies and try to cultivate their jing....I don't know what kind of results they have had, but there is sure to be more of them.

     

    In any case, it seems hard to believe that you could physically remove a part of the body and destroy an essential energetic part at the same time. Amputees report itching where their amputated limbs used to be.

  14. Posted

    I hope you don't take it personally as I really appreciate your contributions on this forum.

     

    Not at all, I enjoy these discussions as they bring light to perspectives I have not considered, and they are all legitimate.

     

    I'm not trying to say that David Shen should give away training to anyone who says that they are interested. I am simply trying to suggest that it may be in his interests to sponsor a taobum. It would not cost him anything and we would all benefit.

     

    Sure there are problems with freeloaders, but that is not the suggestion. I am not trying to nominate myself. The idea, as far as I perceive it is to find someone we can trust and get their feedback on the practices. I'm not trying to suggest that David take on students for free, or that this is a better model than charging for instruction. I know that if someone with history here took up the practice that I and others would give it more serious consideration. As far as I know, anything could happen on one of these trips, perhaps he is recruiting people for nefarious purposes, perhaps he has superior methods of cultivation. Many here would like to know, but few are willing to spend time and money without some trusted verification.

     

    I am quite familar with the idea of "marginal costs"... but I tell you. In order to become a qualified acupuncturist I have payed many thousands... aside from travelling costs, time envolement etc. etc. etc. An in order to stay be top of the line training does not finish... and I continue to spend thousands to continue. Allow me to conclude that these are no marginal costs at all: and I assume (and I have my reasons to assume) that David had to face and faces similar issues...

     

    As a student there could not be marginal costs, you have to pay for everything. But suppose your teacher let someone into the class, it costs you nothing and would cost your teacher nothing, unless it excluded another student. The same should be true for David.

  15. Posted

    the way you put it was like: "Hey. You guys of Mercedes want to make me believe that your car is the best in the world. Give me one for free and later on I will tell people about it.".... not quite the way it works...

     

    I'm sorry that you do not seem to understand the idea of a marginal cost. When a person sits in on a class, it costs the teacher nothing. There is no material used, there is nothing created or destroyed.

     

    There exist tales of gongfu masters who learned by watching masters teach from a distance. What is being proposed is not dissimilar to this. Its silly to compare someone sitting in on a class to producing some product for someone to consume.

     

    There is no financial reason to prohibit David Shen from taking an additional student to an already planned class. Except the fact that he will not receive more money for the same effort.

     

    I am not able to answer the question of what the money is for. And in all honesty: it is not my business.

    Ok, well, I never asked what the money is for.

     

    But if you want to talk about money let us get things straight: you get what you get in Denmark as well. 1000 Euro one week training 5 hours a day. Is that really that much more than others charge and so far out to just because of that doubt sincerity?

     

    I don't doubt his sincerity. Even PT Barnum was sincere when he said that a fool is born everyday.

     

    As far as the cost goes, its fairly expensive. Particularly when compared to resources like aypsite.com and dhama.org who charge nothing.

     

    I can not criticize David for making a living, we all need to make money. However, even the therapists that charge a lot of money occasionally take on a charity case. Doctors and lawyers do too.

     

    >>Further, in my post I mentioned that the rewards that could be reaped would be not only monetary, but his system would get a serious boost in legitimacy. Surely, anyone wishing to establish themselves or their methods as legitimate would want this.<<

     

    Just not of your opinion here...

     

    Allow me to apologize, I made a circular argument here. Of course anyone wishing to establish themselves as legitimate would want to a serious boost in legitimacy. I'm not sure how you consider this an opinion or how you can not agree with it...

     

    Perhaps you disagree with the idea that taking a student on who we were familiar with and trust would boost his reputation. Apparently you are in the minority, see the discussion on who should take the class.

     

    and in all honesty: I very much assume David does not need to rely on a Taobumsler to legitimate him...

     

    Nor am I suggesting that a taobum seal of approval will make him legitimate. However, it will lend much more credibility to the clams he and his students make. Again, see the discussion on who should take the class for the need to establish his school. Many are curious.

  16. Posted

    Well. Tell me why do you think he should have?

     

    Per my post above, it would be only a marginal expense to add one student to an already planned course.

     

    If you want to take up the issue of needing proof of the legitimacy of the practices then consult Cameron, as he is seeking proof. However, for me, if a taobum went and practiced the LSD methods per David Shen's instructions and reported back that would add a level of legitimacy that I, and perhaps this is a personal failing, can not get by reading internet message boards. Lets face it, is there any evidence outside of message boards for anyone to rely on?

     

    He has knowledge.

     

    I suppose you have studied with him? I am unaware of your basis for this conclusion.

     

     

    Why give it to someone who is believing he has the right to get everything just as is?

     

    Why does he give it to anyone who has the cash for it? I don't know. Many people believe that spiritual teachings should be given away for free. dhamma.org is an example of that in action.

     

    Further, are you proposing that I believe that I have a right to get everything just as is? If this is some sort of an accusation, I am happy to respond, but I need you to clarify what having "the right to get everything just as is" means.

     

    please do not get me wrong. This is no side-kick towards you, but David offers something one can either go forward and see were it leads or decide to better not to do. He is not selling a good he wants many to buy just for the part of making money with it!!!

     

    Again, I must make the assumption that you know David in some personal manner to be able to assert that you know that he does not want to make money with it. Further, in my post I mentioned that the rewards that could be reaped would be not only monetary, but his system would get a serious boost in legitimacy. Surely, anyone wishing to establish themselves or their methods as legitimate would want this.

     

    From what I've read David is looking to get approval to teach the LSD methods to a wider audience. Establishing a reputation as a legitimate school or method of spiritual cultivation is key to this. Having someone from the taobums take his class may expedite this process.

     

    So. Why do you believe he has to do what you ask for?

     

    I harbor no such belief and let me be the first to apologize for leaving you with that impression. I am simply stating from that from the perspective of him wanting to help others and spread the practice of LSD that it is in his best interest to legitimize his techniques to a wider audience. One avenue to do this, as Cameron proposed, is for one of the taobums to take one of his courses. Perhaps a better one is for David to let one of us to attend without cost.

     

    Cheers,

    T

  18. Posted

    Cam,

     

    Your intention is in the right place, but youre going about it entirely the wrong way. The LSD folks should sponsor a taobum to take the class, not the other way around. Its silly for us to waste our money for David Shen's profit. Let him prove it to us, take someone from the boards who will sincerely practice it and let him train them without cost. I would understand if airfare and hotel were not covered, but the cost of having one more student in a class is marginal, and ultimately could reap large gains (not simply monetary, but reputation and credibility) for David and co.

     

    Just my 2cents,

    T

  19. Posted

    Darin,

     

    The only resources that I am aware of that could possibly be of assistance would be Bill Bodri and his teacher Nan Huai Chin. You can contact Bill through his webpage. His teacher, who claims to be a master of both Taoism and Buddhism, lives in Hong Kong, and is still alive and teaching. Plato visited him I believe.

     

    Not everyone here is a fan of Bill, but none can argue with depth of his knowledge regarding spiritual cultivation.

     

    I find inspiration in your seeking, and hope that all works out for you. Few have the desire to get started down such a long path and fewer the dedication to stick with it. Many talk the talk but few walk the walk.

     

    My best,

    T