Ken

I believe Great ancestor Wang ChongYang is a Heavenly Immortal (天仙）but his physical body still died when he was 50 years old.

Excellent, now we have somewhere to start. Do you know that the Chinese character 仙 which got translated in the west as "immortal" does not mean physical immortality? And as far as I recall there is no physical immortal in any Chinese legend, except 彭祖 who was said to be 3000 years old around Yellow Emperor's time. All other famous "immortals" all died (their physical body at least) eventually.

First we need to define what is an Immortal? What do you mean by an immortal?

I can't resist posting a reply . Let me break down the logic of what you posted here in the following equivalent presentation: (1) Become a wandering bum for 10 years. (2) ??? (3) Profit.

My advice to everyone here is to choose whichever way you wan to join Master Wang's seminars, be it through laoziacademy or dragongatenyc, there is absolutely no need to make a new anonymous internet identity for the sole purpose of trolling on the other group's thread. Please be respectful to the others, they are not your enemies. Spend more time on your practice instead and less time trolling on the internet.

Hi Ya Mu, Actually I do know that, I thought it would be implicit that the list would include their authorized students too. Hu Yaozhen and Wang Juemin are acknowledged qigong masters and their practices are certainly of high quality. Also only Master Hu had passed away in the list, the others are still around but they are somewhat harder to locate. That's why I only include the head guy in order to include their lineal descendants.

Still dwelling on the terminologies? I really think one should concentrate on the actual practice and what is possible to achieve instead. A practice that has a flowery name but no real benefits, or even worse actually harmful to your health, does not worth as much as the simple qigong form you see in the parks in China, surely everyone agrees with that. There are a lot of BS practice out there that have awe-inspiring names, one should be careful in choosing the right one out of all the trash. I am not going to recommend specific practices but here are a few genuine practices that I know of which has at minimum real health benefits: (1) Wang Liping's Longmen practice. (2) Yan Xin Qigong. (3) Hu Yaozhen's qigong healing methods. (4) Chen Wei's Tianshan qigong. (5) Peng Ming's Zhineng qigong. The list above is NOT exhaustive of course...it only includes practices that I have personal experience, or I know people who do them or vouched for by people that I respect and trust.

Qigong is a modern term that was invented in the 50s, it replaced the old terminologies such as neigong, neidan because they sound backward and superstitious which wouldn't do well under the wave of modernizations and reforms around that time. So in China at least, whatever practices you do, doesn't matter what they are called, neigong, dandao, super-duper-qi-accumulating-energy-transmuting-universe-unifying-practice or whatever, they are all considered to be a form of Qigong. People in the west, or on here at least, started banging on the supposedly differences between qigong and neigong because, I believe, they read the book by Kosta about John Chang and it was claimed in there that neigong is superior to qigong. The claim is silly of course because it reflects an ignorance of the history and evolution of these terminologies in China. But anyway, the name is not important. What's important are the objective (or claims) of the energetic practice that you are considering and whether or not there is any evidence that these claims are possible to achieve with the practice.

I don't belong to any organizations, I am just a student who is extremely lucky to have learned directly from Master Wang and one his student. I don't think anyone should start accusing Richard or Kathy for false advertising before they have all the facts because there are a lot of confusions out there right now, especially on the board regarding, apparently, the two organizations that are holding seminars for Master Wang. Note that Master Wang, as Richard had said on the other thread, do not participate and mostly unaware of what's being posted on the internet, so all these bickering and insults are purely reflection of the flaws of the participants here alone. Now having that out of the hat, I would like to present the following FACTS, not opinion or hearsay, that I know and I would like everyone to consider them before making any judgment. FACTS: (1) Richard has been leading groups of international students to study with Master Wang for a long time. In 2009 Dec, he brought a small group of US and European students to study with Master Wang privately and this group includes Jeannette (DragonGateNYC) (someone told me the price before but I don't remember it exactly, it was $1000-1500 for 5 days or something, it may not be correct though). (2) Jeanette asked Master Wang if she can lead a group to study with him directly in April 2010 and Master Wang agreed. (3) I participated that seminar. I was quoted $3700 for the price and I was told it was a special for old student and asked not to talk to others about how much I was paying, which I found odd since giving discount to old student is a reasonable thing to do and no one would object. However, after we had arrived, I was asked to pay extra $200 more for "translator's fee", obviously everyone was very upset and we couldn't believe we had to pay extra on top of what was a clearly a previously agreed upon price. I didn't want to make a scene and paid anyway even though I can listen, speak and write perfect Chinese. (4) Another seminar was held in August 2010, not sure who organized that one since some of the students seemed to be Mr. Wang Tingjun's old students (I could be wrong) and Jeanette was also present. (5) Disagreement between Kathy and Jeanette broke out in Oct/Nov 2010, Jeanette started her own website, dragongatenyc. (6)In Nov 2010, I got invitations from both Richard and Jeanette about the Dec seminar, Richard told me the price was $3100, tuition $2000, hotel and foods $1100, a translator fee $100 for those who don't speak Chinese, so the fee was waived for me. Jeanette quoted me a $3900 price. So now that we have the above info, let's take a look again at all these confusions, which invariably arise when there are two rival organizations and the financial detail are so murky. It seems to me that the $400 extra that Richard mention is already included in the $3600 number since the Dec. price, which Richard led and was the translator I believe, was $3200. So maybe Jeanette didn't get that memo and was confused? Or is it the other way round? It will be easy to resolve if Jeanette can just state clearly how the $3900 price was distributed? How much is for Master Wang? How much is for the hotels/food? How much is the translator's fee etc? Note that I don't care if there is a commission charged, but please make it transparent. The reason I posted this is because I am absolutely exasperated by all these rants and insults that had been flying around here. It has done nothing except hurting and embarrassing the reputation of Master Wang and the school. I very much preferred to have it resolved internally and I tried to start a discussion on the facebook page of Master Wang's students but no one really interested. So let's discuss and resolve it here, get rid of all the confusions here by coming out clean, put to rest all these nonsenses that had been so irritating and infuriating to me and I am sure to many other Master Wang's students that have been watching silently on this board.

Finally a voice of reason from a true disciple of Master Wang. This thread had gotten so disgusting with the rants and vicious personal insults from several individuals. They have done nothing except degrading themselves and degrading the reputation of Master Wang's teachings.

uh-oh Mr. Starjumper7 is turning this into a "My master has more qi than your master" thread .

摸排?? you mean 墨派。 I have seen the images of that "manual". I am pretty sure that's fake (just look like an old book of talismans which you can find in many places), nevertheless I can help you translate it, just the first 2-3 pages though, that should be enough to show that it's fake.

It's true that Master Wang is only teaching maybe not even 10% of what he knows. Alas, I personally find that what has been taught is already enough for me to practice and enjoy for many many years.

Well, I can't speak for Master Wang nor the Laozi academy, but I do know a bit about practice and some of the people involved. So I will be happy to answer any questions anyone might have here. Some questions I saw, (1) "Master Wang not recognized by the Daoist association" : This is absolutely true because Master Wang is not even a member of the Daoist association. So if you are looking for any association endorsed personnel, you can contact the association through their official website. (2) "20 years of practice and still going to the seminars" : I do know that Master Wang has many students, some have first attended his class perhaps more than 20 years ago. This is nothing strange, I would still go to Master Wang class 20 years from now (given that i have the time and money) if he is still teaching because each seminar/class is a rare chance to learn from him and he only teaches a few times a year. So what do these people have after 20 years? I don't know because I never asked them. But 20 years is just a quantity, how much actual practice does one do is more important. For example, I started learning in 2008 but alas being a lazy person, I can only serious say that perhaps I have practice hard for a few months over 2 years, I have no illusion on getting any amazing result. The bottom-line is Master Wang is offering an extremely high quality set of practices for a health and wellness, both physical and spiritual health. If you fantasize on getting superpower from a seminar or you thought you would be like what is described in Opening the Dragongate, then i suggest you to save your money, it's not gonna happen. If you want superpower, you should go to people who offer to teach them like David Verdesi, Falun Gong etc . p.s. I will be away from the interweb in the next few days, if you have any question please ask, I will answer them when I get back.

Uuggg...the way you suggested to stretch is the surest way to tear up some ligament (pulling the feet backward in wide angle forward bend? wtf?). Wide angle forward bend (WAFB) is a good stretch but it's not everything to do a full lotus. I believe this video is where you get the idea from: notice the dude can do full lotus but his posture is somewhat terrible, his left knee is like 20 feet up in the air. A proper padmasana posture should have both knees touching the ground. I believe WAFB can get you into the basic posture but doing it alone will not give you a proper padmasana posture, you need an inclined inward rotation in the ball and socket joint as well (which you won't get from doing WAFB). Also talk is cheap, here is a picture of my full lotus to show that I kind of know what i am talking about: (hmmm..can't attach pic, don't know why)

YMWong, when has i ever said it's any kind of secret? No it's not secret at all, I just don't have time to do it. I have too much on my plate already. In fact, I encouraged Song Yong Dao privately last year to translate what is available on web into English, but I guess he is busy too. So be my guest to translate any public materials if you have the time and energy.

Calling someone "racist pig" is not a "slightest comment". And frankly whining little bitch like you don't deserve anything. The methods on the Chinese web are not secret, it's just that no one has translated them yet. Incidentally Shen laoshi is working on a revised edition of "Walk on the great path" which contains all of Master Wang's teaching and we are working on an English edition, but this won't happen for another year or two. Methods without oral transmission won't work in Longmenpai, I have said it many times and no one seems to get it (or want to believe it). Since you have such obvious hatred towards Chinese, I will ensure that you will not be welcomed to any longmenpai class in the future.

Hi YMWong, it's ok, it's really no big deal, I believe you. It's just a new way (to me) to name these postures.

I have no idea what are you talking about. It has nothing to do with questioning the school or whatever, i can't care less. My original post was a response to that dick who called Ms Li a "racist pig" and then generalize yo insult all the Chinese as a "racist breed". Which part of it you don't understand?

wtf? what does it have to do with free speech and the "Chinese way" (whatever that is)? He made a personal insult in his post. Last time i checked, personal insult is not tolerated in this forum and is ground for banning. Of course it's up to the moderator to decide, at least a warning is warranted here. (calling someone a "racist pig" just because he didn't like the answer he got? I consider that a personal insult)

Thanks YMWong, can you tell me which book did you extract this from? It's clear that "crossed leg is Earth, half lotus is Man, full lotus is Heaven" is mentioned in the text. However, I want to make sure this is a legit source because I have seen at least one person who ripped off Master Wang's teaching and published it as their own system (yeah, for real)....

Where did you hear that from, YMWong? I have never heard them referred to that way. Also there are 36 mudras in Ling Bao Bi Fa, not 9.

Is he sure? I have seen this book selling for about $10 online...