Ian

I could hardly disagree more. Point one: Detachment has nothing to do with separation. In fact the more detached you are the more you experience yourself as part of everything. Two: in order to practice detachment properly you have to face and overcome a great deal of fear. Three: the only difference between attachment and compulsion, as you define them above, is that compulsion is the attachment you've already noticed. Four: you don't know that the whole point is to manifest and honour the tao. You don't know that. You don't even know if there is a"whole point". How could you? Admit it, it's an opinion.

I'm not sure I agree, unless you have a particular definition of desire here. Attraction would perhaps be a better word for the natural, magnetic, polarised flow of which you speak. Desire is, in my dictionary, much more rooted in thought, in an expression of the personality. Just because it activates jing-level stuff of which we're not directly conscious, doesn't make it pure and natural, I think. And thought certainly can be, well, if not reduced, then denied the resources that make it so compelling. And desire, or the inability to stand back from desire, will be lessened thereby. And that is just a reduced relationship with desire, not a new one. I think for most people, especially me, building a new relationship with desire will be impossible, simply because the desires don't give us enough breathing space in which to do so. I try to reduce my current relationship with desire, because, 99 times out of a hundred, if I tell myself my desire is a spontaneous and natural event, I'm kidding myself. It's just the grasping of the personality made flesh. But that's me. I aim for ruthless honesty, but maybe I'm just a particularly backward cultivator.

Better yet, do nothing.

As a follow-up to some of Hagar's recent posts, I thought I'd add a few quotes from a book by Andrew Cohen I read recently. Can't remember the title, but it was blue, and relatively recent. Figure Mr Cohen is a wordy enough chap for the most avid discussion-head to take seriously. As follows: "The spiritual path is the search for, and discovery of, total insecurity." "As long as the seeker wants to survive, so long as the seeker still wants to be somebody and be free, the result can only be a condition that continues to be fundamentally divided. Indeed the whole point of spiritual practice and experience is to finally come to the end of that division." "The price that needs to be paid for the experience of true intimacy to become more than a brief interlude is real ego death." Discuss.

Thank you, I'm all for clarity. I'm not, however, familiar enough with your terms above to be sure of the distinction you're making, so I will try to define mine and see if it helps. From what I can glean, I would describe the enlightened state, or the type of enlightened state I would care to achieve, at least, as being one of no "personal" reactions to what is. No preferences. Full openness to what arises from without, nothing arising from within. And I believe that getting there (and I know in one sense there's nowhere to get to, but that's irrelevant until we make it real,) involves, as Hagar has been saying, mostly surrender. Especially surrender of all our little ideas of how to go about surrendering. And it requires being intensely present to what is, and entirely unattached to it. Not shutting anything out, but considering less and less of it to be "me". And I'm very wary when people talk about integration, because I often find that what they seem to me to be saying is "I have selected parts of my experience and my expectations and my personality and deemed them ok and I am looking for a version of enlightenment which allows me to keep them." I believe that often, when people talk about integrating their x, y, or z, they are aiming to integrate them with What Exactly? With all the "me" stuff they want to keep! What else do we have that we can integrate things with? So..... if all you're talking about in the first place is the need to be open and present, in the senses and body, without being obstructed by thoughts and attachments and emotions, then we are in complete agreement. Otherwise maybe not. Does that help?

A friend of mine, who practices an entirely body-centred meditation (and does it much better than I do) went to a weekend with Cohen about a month ago. He reported a strong clear transmission, which definitely helped his very physical practice. So there's an alternative view. And frankly, every serious tradition insists that the personal is an obstruction to enlightenment. Maybe the only one. It's not just something Cohen made up. A lot of personalities have worked very hard, and continue to do so, to try and prove otherwise. Their survival is at stake, after all.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a softball? How big is it?

Thank you. That looks huge.

The only problem is that thinking makes you ill. Admittedly we think all the time, so it might as well be positive, but genuine healing, wholeness, only comes with diverting the resources which are directed outward in thought back into the body. IMO, obviously.

This morning: papaya, banana and spinach, with a dollop of raw cream and raw honey. Yesterday: strawberry, banana, broccoli stalk, apple juice. I find this sort of thing really sustaining: my usual "morning at work tea and toast binge" seems unnecessary. And it makes me piss a lot, which I like, for no obvious reason.

Dude, I salute you. Everything I've been wanting/trying to say, once again.

Tell me about the poo cleanse, if you please. Where, here, did you read it? What's in it? How much did you take, how often and for how long? Have you ever had colonics and how does it compare if so? Yours busily, but with vast love, I

What's a good book to start with, for learning about herbalism? Not Chinese or five elements herbalism particularly, just general and/or western. Many thanks, I

Not sure, not enquiring on own behalf. Thank you for suggestions, all.

I've been on five silent retreats over the last four years or so. It was a wonderful experience for me each time. It was particularly telling to experience how much energy was lost in a big rush once noble chattering started. I think it was Timothy Leary who characterised most human conversation as "I'm still here, are you still there?" I believe that sharing facts and experience is valuable. My ambition, which I currently forget to even remember to try and begin, is to speak, and listen, with an awareness of the vibration of the sound in my body. That way, in theory, I'll gradually come to a point where I don't say anything I wouldn't like to have in my body. Should cut it down a great deal. If I ever get started, I'll let you know. I

Mainly intellectual, occasionally experiental, but not for long

Only one thing to say, and not sure how useful it is. As follows: Life and death are not opposites. Birth and death are opposites. Life has no opposite. Life includes death. Happy friday. I

Welcome, Nicholas. What part of Malaysia are you from? I spent much of Jan and Feb this year in Penang. And yesterday, back in UK, I finally managed to get hold of some durian to feed my addiction. Only de-odoured Thai durian, but better than nothing. Hope you enjoy the forum. Don't be shy. Ian

There is no past, there is no future. Your body has never met either. Only your mind can inhabit these non-existent zones, as it made them up. There is only now. Simple.

People at rawguru.com say the blendtec total is not available in UK because it won't run off a transformer. They suggest the vitamax is next best and shipping is $85. Haven't heard back from blendtec themselves on this. So anyone got the vitamax? Is it same horsepower? Will it do avocado stones? Yours too lazy to research, I P.S. Sifu Yap arrives in Oxford tomorrow. Hurrah!

I haven't had it done, but a friend totally recommends it, and one of my teachers uses it on people. Various cylinders and tubes, ozone goes up your bum and bob's your uncle. I know it's available in North London, and, er, Bali. Google Ozone Therapy

If you need anything more drastic, I strongly recommend ozone insufflation. Do it at least three times, as the effectiveness increases exponentially.