findley

I think it sounds nice... probably some form of chi. or some form of psychosis. either way, it still sounds nice...

the bad are the teachers of the good-- --and vice versa-- I smell opportunity

Rain, I think it is dependent on whatever 'hexagram(s)' and/or changing lines is/are dominating whatever experience (yi) you are having at that given moment. don't know which ones, specifically.

...so THIS is how I am going to assassinate the president... (I'm verbalizing it in this post so Big Brother has a heads up... FUCK YOU, BIG BROTHER! )

I think that a better way to 'say' it is: yin-yang, duality, and the 10,000 things that spread forth from this, They exist in their illusory capacity. You're right in that ultimately, they are not real-- but we are creatures who dwell in the illusory existence of things. -To not accept this as fundamental to our reality, that we are creatures born of and into this 'illusory' quality of existence, would be to resist the flux of Tao. So, duality exists as much as you do. It is as real as your post. It takes a sage to truly appreciate ultimate reality.

I think that sounds like pseudo-science. In my opinion, it is a terrible theory, with nothing to back it up besides imagination-based conjection. the 5th dimension sounds like a theoretical subtangent aspect of the 4th-- that is loaded with unfounded implications. The '6th' could be also explained as the combination of the totality of all prior dimensions, (1+2+3+4+5) but then is given a qualifier as its own 'dimension', which doesnt really make any sense.

You know, if you get into I ching theory... There are varying degree's to which a person may be subject to 'fate' (or the heavens,) at any given time, (yi.) -Sometimes a person's experience will be dictated more by his own will than by heaven. -Sometimes Heaven will over-rule the will of the individual. so it's not a 'set' dichotomy. Even this is in flux. cool, huh?

I do not mean to create another useless thread, but am eager to have this discussed.... again... I am about a tenth of the way through a hundred days of retention. I already have extended periods of bliss to appreciate. (also, thank you Sean for your incredibly enlightening signature... it is surely a trigger!) What I am wondering though, is how rigid this 100 days is in regards to special circumstances. For example, if I spend 30-90 minutes a day, on average, masturbating to circulate sexual energy through the whole of my body, and tryign to achieve brain or 'crown chakra orgasms', then surely the typical 'results' expected after a hundred days of retention will be achieved much faster..? I am thinking, though I have no basis to really found this one, but I still think, that perhaps because of my sexual kungfu, my retention period should be considered to be halved. -or maybe these are exclusive practices? Drew Hempel was kind enough to inform me that my masturbation technique is merely transforming my jing into fluid, when I should be transforming it into electro-magnetic fields. I appreciate this advice, but at the same time, I strongly believe that this sexual kung-fu is one of the most efficient ways to 'open' my system. The experience of circulating that sexual energy is so gratifying, I cannot imagine it to be anything but excellent. Also, because the gratification flows through my body, and is not limited to the genitals, (where it is largely ignored, in fact..) I believe that perhaps it is possible that I am, indeed, transforming jing into a positive energy. Also, what I am curious about are crown chakra orgasms. I do not bring sexual energy up the governer channel, but simply bring it 'up' into my body. When I feel I am successfully circulating this energy, I concentrate on my crown. I then imagine as though I am 'fucking' with my crown. I definately feel accumlating 'density' when I do this, and it feels good, but is certainly not orgasmic. Sometimes after I do this, it becomes easier to 'bring down white energy' through my head, which may be gratifying... but not absolutely indicative of too much. -Do you think that if I keep this up, eventually my crown will open in orgasm, sexual energy will flood my brain, and I will finally.... you know....? Also, my scalp is flexing all the time. for weeks, now. is this a positive sign that energy is circulating? (qi surges that cause the muscles to contract..?) anywyas, thank you to anyone who has time to respond!!!!

hahaha you spelt 'quiet' wrong

idiot?

whoa, hey now, relax man. I made a few points in my comment. On the whole, though, the point of the comment.. was in making the comment itself. ...Which consists of a few points that I wanted to share, and thought that others might find interesting. The 'points' that you were assuming I was leading to, I assure you, are purely of your own creation. Obviously there is something wrong with you? -that you let your imagination run off on you like that, in such a negative direction? -And then bad-mouthing others? Take a deep breath, man.

I wrote a machiavellian flavored political essay about the ineffectual leadership of the dalai lama, and basically expressed condemnation for the whole of the situation-- mainly for the poor tibetans. Buddhist theology absolutely cannot adapt to political strife. -When tibetans rebel despite buddhist theology, and against the word of the dalai lama, (who ahs threatened to abandon his position!?) they appear as fools and hypocrits. They are trapped in their traditions, culture, and religion, and do not flow with the flux of Tao. This dogmatic rigidity is primarily responsible for the failure of the tibetan state. In my opinion. When there is resistance, surely nothing good can come of it.

does it describe what one is supposed to do with the sexual energy? Surely it must be circulated thuroughly... but does it mention anything about refinement and storage?

try rooted /tai-chi walking. First, root yourself into the ground up to your dan tien. Then start walking, while trying to maintain that 'rootedness' in every step. Each step you will feel at an almost tantric level, and energy rising up into your dan tien. anyways, i think I just heard once that something like this might help with kidney yang deficiency. 5 elements might help. your acupuncturist should know best..??? doesn't he know qigong??

No =) It teaches you how to attain stillness. It describes the process of transformation as you progress through it's method.. including what we popularly know as 'kundalini awakening' and .. i think.. Psychic development.

Oh, trunk! Speak of the devil! Last night I spent more than a couple hours in tossing-turning, overwhelmingly aggressive sexual desire! -If my phone was not turned off, I was *this* close to calling an old grandmother I once slept with for a good-time! My desire for someone of the opposite sex was so strong I that I could not handle the appetite. I could not even sleep! -This is occuring just after a very powerful period of silent, meditation on stillness. (and, ironically, the same day I read your post and essay's on the 'pitfalls' of aroused semen retention.) Is this what Ron Jeremy was going through all the time..?! No wonder he was so fucking nuts!! Anyways, I tried lots of things to calm myself down. Aneros didn't work. at all. I eventually made myself ejaculate so I could go to sleep. ---- However, the morning after, I had a very successful practice for about 60-90 minutes, and I stopped only because I felt 'full', which is something new. I wass also very successful experiencing 'brain' orgasms, which left me feeling pleasantly tired, (like that 'drained' feeling most men get after ejaculation?) ..So, yes, it took me about 10 days until I couldn't take it anymore, but the after-results were very profitable. ...Maybe it is just a matter of building up the retention period?? Maybe I'll be able to go for 12 days next time-- 14 the next, and so on, until I get to the ~100 day retention period like Xeno did... until I can just keep going without ejaculation at all?? Anyways, what about that (pleasantly,) drained feeling I experienced after the brain orgasms this morning? I would think that I should expect to feel energized after the experience. Is this evident of some sort of leakage? (which I don't think I would mind, if the energy is leaking into my brain..?) BTW-- I'm ordering my kunlun book today I am excited to experience what has been so appluaded!

I think I take for granted, most times, how much emotional strife and pain I avoid by continuing with my cultivation. it doesn't 'happen', so we don't recognize it.

I asked myself the same thing, because I talk about my own masturbation alot, as a spiritual practice. I have never been ridiculed. I don't think anyone is offended. But really, it is whatever you are comfortable with. The only limitation is yourself.

Thank you, Trunk. It is too unfortunate that we don't have any 'solutions' to the pitfalls of aroused semen-retention. I think it is important that you gave me that, Trunk. I will have to give my pevlic area special attention as my retention progresses. ...I'll probably bring problems, if I encounter any, to the forum. In the meantime, I am going to continue with the microcosmic orbit, external qigong/tai chi, stillness, and dan tien cultivation. I think that all of these practices supplementing eachother should prove fruitful. -btw, what about use of aneros? I got one a couple weeks ago. I have tried it multiple times, but it doesn't seem to work. My normal tantric practice gives me much more satisfaction. .......plus I don't really like the idea of having something up my ass........ .......but if I can use it for it's original purpose-- prostate health-- and get all the fluids and energies flowing, (maybe once a week?) that should prove an acceptable alternative to stagnation?

I can't wait to hear about your experiences, sunshine, with the helmet! You have to admit, though, it looks ridiculous =) The other day I was paranoid about my practice as being a big joke-- because I was beginning to identify with the term, "dick head"!! -Hopefully your purchase will prove fruitful..?

Thanks Relaxing into the energy is definately of primary importance... I find myself tensing up so hard I almost shiver when I practice, reminding me to relax and mediate on the experience. I was taking storage and refinement for granted!!! I wonder how I am sure I am refining it and storing it??? That is very interesting point!!! I wish I knew how to transform the fluid into EM fields. I think it is a matter of generating an amount of heat in the pelvic area-- the heat increases the viscosity (sp? /fluidity) of the ...fluid. And maybe releases EM energy in the process. (??) Thanks, xeno =) I was actually hoping you would respond, because I have read through that thread a few times, now. It is helpful, but I don't find the specific answers (or questions,) I am looking for...

hi =) The Tao Te Ching is considered an ancient philosophical text, generally associated to the (possibly mythic?) figure Lao Tzu. It is also considered to be a conglomeration of like-wisdom from many contributers, over periods of time. Because many westerners do not read chinese, they rely on translators to relay the wisdom inherent in every passage. Due to the obviously vast differences between Chinese and English, the same words may be translated in numerous ways. Translators are thus given room to insert their biased understanding of the tao te ching's wisdom into their work, intentional or not. The differences in translation may be gaping, (as I have seen in christian-slanted work,) or very subtle, (which is common,)-- but even a subtle difference can be a big deal for an enthusiast. If you cannot read mandarin, it is best to read a number of translations repeatedly, as well as other bodies of taoist philosophy, to give you a bigger picture of the philosophy as a whole. In this way, you need not read the chinese directly to gain a valid understanding of taoist philosophy. Also, readers may sympathize with specific translations based on their personal interpretation of Taoist. Of course, one reader may be more 'correct' than another, but I would hesitate to say that someone is wrong-- unless the interpretation is blatantly off-key. If you are going to challenge someone's interpretation, it is a good idea to present valid counter-arguments, and avoid being rude. This thread should provide that opportunity! chapter 81: Here is a previously mentioned translation: Sincere words are are not sweet, Sweet words are not sincere. Good men are not argumentative, The argumentative are not good. The wise are not erudite, The erudite are not wise. The Sage does not take to hoarding, The more he lives for others, The fuller his life. The more he gives, The more he abounds. The Way of Heaven is to benefit, Not to harm. The Way of the Sage is to do his duty, Not to strive with anyone. here is another by Legge, which I prefer, (but I will not say is the best, even in my opinion..) Sincere words are not fine; fine words are not sincere. Those who are skilled (in the Tao) do not dispute (about it); the disputatious are not skilled in it. Those who know (the Tao) are not extensively learned; the extensively learned do not know it. The sage does not accumulate (for himself). The more that he expends for others, the more does he possess of his own; the more that he gives to others, the more does he have himself. With all the sharpness of the Way of Heaven, it injures not; with all the doing in the way of the sage he does not strive. -- here is another by mcdonald: 81 True words do not sound beautiful; beautiful sounding words are not true. Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise. Wise men are not scholars, and scholars are not wise. The Master desires no possessions. Since the things she does are for the people, she has more than she needs. The more she gives to others, the more she has for herself. The Tao of Heaven nourishes by not forcing. The Tao of the Wise person acts by not competing. ------------- I could keep going, (there's a list of translations on wikipedia, 'tao te ching'..) but I think these three versions should suffice to point out varying itnerpretations... we can discuss which ones may be more or less 'true'. Notice the clearly 'buddhist' flavor of the first passage? 'good' .. 'bad'... dualistic language in general is highly present. Now look at Legge's translation. That distinct 'buddhist flavor' is now completely gone. The passage reads much more objectively. Dualistic language is less hardly present. The essential wisdom even seems to be much different. what do you think? is there a difference in these two passages? which one do you think is better suited to serve taoist philosophy, genuine taoist philosophy, on the whole? This question is mainly directed to mike. Would you care to discuss the matter? You seemed deeply enthused about defending the legitimacy of the first represented translation. Maybe you can explain to me why? PS- please, no one even get me started on the irony of this thread being based on 81 LOL !!!!!

I think there is a vast difference between the first-presented translation and Legge's translation. To dismiss the absence of the dualistic language used in Legge's translation (such as we find in trhe first,) as unimportant, I believe, is a mistake. If you are a new reader to the Tao Te Ching, I believe you will walk away with a significantly different understanding of the philosophy if you read from these different translators. You may think, for example, that taoism is very similiar to Buddhism. Which it is not. and, in my opinion, is a very unfortunate mistake. (because you would not discover the essence of genuine taoist philosophy.) I also believe that that if you are earnest in your cultivation of taoist philosophy, you must find yourself picking at the flaws and biases of others, that may otherwise blind you from what you are seeking. 'compiling' multiple translations that lean in different directions is not an effective method of discovery, because synthesizing what is 'more correct' with what is 'less correct' does not produce something 'even more correct'. Maybe to use an analogy-- if I were to mix diamonds in with manure, would the final product be something desirable..? Do not get carried away with the fact that we seem to discuss this matter in contrary to passage 81. We are not sages, so we should not blindly emulate. If we are to become a sage, our actions (or nonactions? ) will stem from a deep understanding (or not? ) of the philosophy-- not from our blind emulation of what we read in the book. also, we should not allow even the verses of the tao te ching to become rigid dogma. This would be self-defeating, as a taoist philosopher. There is only a non-dogmatic, non-dualistic tao, and to extrapolate any sort of 'rules' from this is absolute folly. ..so do not be afraid to break 'rules', even if they seem to come from the tao te ching!! mjjbecker, if THIS is the reason why you do not care to discuss taoist philosophy, please reconsider! I will not consider you a 'bad man' for 'arguing' with me! (or will I...?) I will not call you unwise for challenging my idea's! (or will I...?) You are welcome!

-so if I am mixing 'conducting' and 'capictor' methods, then I am... really only going in circles with my practice? Is there a way to discern all the practices that belong to each respective 'type' of cultivation? .. Are you sure that some practices aren't compatible with both types? (wouldn't emptiness meditation be an example..?)

I'm sorry, but I almost feel as if it is my duty to point out-- that that was one of the worst tao te ching translations I have ever seen. It felt distorted and misleading.