findley

dont believe anything you ever read in wang lipings 'biography'.

do this: read the Dao De Jing, and then cmopare the wisdom of Lao Tzu with the lipings 'masters'

yeah big difference isnt there?

You know, in my experience, a deep breath is a deep breath. Also, I think controlling your breathing is counter-productive-- the breath isnt meant to be controlled. if it becomes deep, it is as a -side effect- and not because you made it happen. If you control it, its not natural.

read the Secret of the Golden Flower for its comment on it. it says DON'T control your breathing.

I dont think the 'dan tien' is real either. dont worry about it.

I think sifu Rel is delusional.

in my experience the only real development you can hope for, lies in building up your electromagnetic field via qigong practice. like embracing the tree.

experiment with embracing the tree (dont make the practice sucky and painful, put your arms down when you are tired,) for several hours every day. that is the only thing that is going to bring you real benefit. not any of these primitive daoist mystical lies about breathing and dan tiens and whatever.

....trust me.

I banned for bad-mouthing frauds and liars. I think the last incident, I was upset that someone was spreading a gross misinterpretation of The Secret of the Golden Flower. Apparantly they were building a cult around their ignorance.

hrm... I am mostly worried about young people wondering these forums, like I did when I was a teenager. I wasted so much time following dead-end allies, such as mantak chia and micheal winn. Their fusion of the 5 elements, for example. Even the microcosmic orbit. It was years of dedicated practice to absolute bullshit. If I had been practicing kunlun or just zhan zhuang instead, I would have been a grandmaster, I was so dedicated. I practiced all day long. it was all I did. (ps so fuck you two very much, winn and chia.) Also, obsessing about semen retention was a big deal for me. At 18, I just could not keep myself from jerking off every 1-2 weeks, at which point I had to 'start over'. Semen retention was a big fad which, now I think, was a big lie that really had a negative impact on my 'spiritual' development.

If only someone like me had been around to assure my younger self that masturbating on a regular basis was ok

so I think that this 'rationalist' element is important to have on a forum like this.

Kempomaster, that is great. You sound very sane, and I believe you.

I am open to the possibility of close-distance healing, but the possibility of long-distance healing is baffling. I wonder how it is possible. The only way I can imagine that can convey energy through the space-time continuum , involves quantum entanglement, or... primordial nothingness.

Could consciousness stem from this primordial nothingness, and then have the potential to reach back through primordial nothingness to another point in space-time? ...yes... actually I do believe this is possible.

Hey, do you think I can heal hypertopic scars on face with qigong, or does the body consider them already 'healed' up? A chinese dermatologist really fucked up my face with a laser, and now I am left with ypertropic scars all over my face. I am getting back into qigong again hoping that they will heal... I hope so =\

...besides... kempo, what do you feel like you 'do' when you do distance healing? Is it just an intent..? can you describe how exactly you do it, (or how you think you do it?)

pssssssss

this is an open forum, intended for open discussion. I don't think it is right to feel like you can restrict somebody else's freedom to interject their point of view for the sake of advertisement.

If you just wanted to make an advertisement, then I think you can purchase ad space with the forum.

p.s.,

if you ever ask yourself whether or not you should believe someone, see if they are selling anything.

Rainbow-- why do I think that the original poster is either lying or deluded? --because 'distance healing' is impossible. It only works for 'eager' people.

Do you want to argue that it is possible? Then ask the original poster and her friends to take their practice to the next level: take it to a local university and have a few undergraduate students chronicle the phenomena in an objective manner. ie:

1) have the patients diagnosed by an objective third party, to asses their initial conditions

2) record the details of the 'distance healing sessions' in an objective manner

3) interview the patients and catalogue their experiences during and after the healing sessions

4) MAKE IT A DOUBLE-BLIND STUDY SO YOU CAN FIGURE OUT WHO THE 'EAGER' PEOPLE ARE

5) have the patients re-diagnosed by an objective third party, to asses possible improvement

---viola!-- then you have a scientific case-by-case analysis of 'distance healing' recorded in an objective manner. IF the results are real, then they should show up in the study. I don't think objectivity in this case can affect the 'healing powers' being demonstrated.

Until you have a legitimate, responsible, trustworthy third-person entity with a very detailed study I can read, I am not going to believe that some random person is performing miracles. I think it is much more likely that the original poster, her 'clients', and her spiritual master are all too eager to believe that what they are doing is actually real. I have met alot -- ALOT -- of deluded people in my time.

.......

Have you ever heard about the christians who enjoy getting drunk on whiskey, get into trances, talk in tongues, and enjoy snake-handling? -- do you think that they are genuinely in touch with god, or do you think that they are just a bunch of crazy people??????? think about it . there are alot of people around here with this 'crazy christian' mentality .

hahaha

I know what the observer effect is, dawei--

but I hardly think it is a correct conclusion to assume that 'consciousness' is affecting the electrons.

In the first place, when their movements are analyzed, *machines*(like cameras,) do all the observing-- and then the human being analyzes the results spit out by the machines.

so, there is no *direct* relationship between the change in electron behavior and the conscious, human observer.

Who knows what it is, it may be consciousness after-all, it is too early to tell. And even if it is 'consciousness', there is the really difficult question of HOW consciousness (especially through so indirect a relationship,) affect electrons in just such a way ...is... far out.

actually, personally, I think it has to do with the recording devices. I think that as the movement of the electrons are recorded by these machines, that the machines are actually affecting them in a way we don't understand yet.

Because it's mostly lies.

I thought I would follow up on the post about scientific development--

for the fellows who believe that rationality is not important in your spiritual practice, how do you keep from getting scammed by all the fakes, liars, cheats out there who want to make money off of your devotion?

For example, Micheal Winn. He is a liar and a fraud. He speaks to atlanteans. But he has made money selling his snake-oil to people like... a younger version of myself. I remember an administrator here was once selling I Ching readings through the forum. This is a desipicable use of the forum.

How do you protect yourselves? ...or are you all simply going to allow yourselves to be cheated, and your spirituality stunted by these awful, (or at least deluded,) people?

I remember I was actually banned from this forum for denouncing people who claimed to do miracles. and there were alot of them. (In fact they were the moderators, too, so they banned me.)

I think you're either lying, or you're deluded.

Steve,

taiji, neigong, qigong forms -- they all ahd to be *developed*, right..? How did the Daoists develop and refine these systems...?

Knowledge is power in any circumstance. And, if we could possibly figure out what exactly is really happening when we practice any of these forms,

then there is the potential for further development, as we have the freedom to refine the practice.

It would be a mistake to divorce the rational mind from EM-practice.

how do you waste money on hash?

"Saying we dont know what magnetism is would be like saying we have no idea what makes a gyroscope stand up when spun"

>_< If you care to explain the means by which magnetic fields interact with other phenomena, please do let me know JoeBlast jlbwhvw elvh avhsnv

perhaps you can point out the force carrier vlawbvWNEVUIEWNVIWUENVILWN

maybe you can help me to see how it is distinguishable from gravity filufhiUNFVBIUB

mmmmmm..... if there is a magnetic FIELD, and there is an accompanying particle for every field (per wave-particle duality,) then is there a corresponding particle for magnetism?

jankjv ew

you know, its not just magnetism, either. perhaps you can explain to me the nature of Space?

lahbvvvvvvfiufeb !!!!!!

wow, what are you doing in wudaokou? yeah, I guess we could meet for tea or something. Do you like hash?

well, I came back to the USA to finish my degree, and now I am studying again at Renmin university in beijing.

On the one hand, I think I am a genius and am hoping to get my theory of gravity published. (...)

on the other hand, my life sucks ass. I'm about out of money. In a couple months, I might be homeless.

dwai, the observer effect...?

...so how does consciousness influence electrons to behave like particles instead of waves? Can you explain it..?

Besides, why don't you go into a deeper explanation why you think matter extends from mind? That's an interesting posutlation, I think I have heard it before somewhere. Maybe you can clarify the theory a little bit better?

You seem to know everything already, perhaps you should start clarifying things for people like me.

Steve,

yes, I believe you are right-- ultimately our reality stems forward from a paradox. I call it the 'paradox of Being and Nothingness' , myself... and have some interesting work the discusses the nature of the beginning of the universe, which can ultimately only be described in terms of a 'paradox of being and nothingness'.

I seek enlightenment through understanding, and I think science is the epitomy of this development in our contemporary socio-cultural dynamic. (If anyone knows their hegel, ...or nietzsche... then perhaps you can understand this point of view regarding this kind of evolution.)

I am surprised by the quality of answers. Some of you are happy to cling to ignorance. ...but others are open to scientific understanding, though at the same time acknowledging its limitations. I agree with this whole-heartedly. Science is limited, for exactly the reasons you pointed out. I believe that as society continues to develop, we will move past this 'scientific age' unto an era of greater understanding-- that won't be qualified by the scientific method anymore.

we're making that transition now.

Also, just because I begin to classify qigong in terms of EM-field development, doesn't mean that I have all the answers. For example, we do not even know what magnetism really is !! (ie what is the 'force carrier' that makes magnetic interaction possible?)

I think as we move closer to a 'grand unified theory' in physics, we will simultaneously be getting closer to the answers we need in our 'spiritual' development through qigong. K actually asked if EM was an isolated force-- I don't think it is, actually. The weak force, for example, has been discovered to be sort of dervied from the EM force-- and so now they call it the 'electroweak' force. I believe that all phenomena will eventually be discovered as being derivative of a singular force dynamic-- which of course is grand unified theory. if you're interested take a look at my metaphysic below, which is an attempt to establish just such a theory:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/23026-anybody-care-to-comment-on-my-metaphysic/page__gopid__329135&

but anyways, as general understanding continues to develop, we will eventually come to definitive answers abotu what is really going on in our 'spiritual' practice. With understanding comes progress.

Though if you deliberately choose ignorance, I suppose that is something Lao Tzu would suggest you do.

Hi sonia =)

I have my bachelors in philosophy and I am studying my second year of chinese right now at renmin university.

Unfortunately I am not good enough to help translate those kinds of tales! (are they probably in ancient chinese, too? They have to be translated into contemporary mandarin with notes somewhere.....)

I am more of a contemporary philosopher than a religious daoist... see my metaphysic here:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/23026-anybody-care-to-comment-on-my-metaphysic/page__gopid__329135&

but I am also still very much in love with the taoist philosophy. I am reading the dao de jing now, and practicing a sitting form of qigong.

If you'd like to hang out some time at wudaokou or something, if you like. Do you like to smoke hash..?

hahaha wow.

Apech, you are right-- they say, that because the galaxies are spiraling out in the huge empty space of the universe, the stars at the fringes of the galaxies should sort of spin off the edges of the spiral arms, because the physical matter WITHIN the galaxy doesnt carry enough gravitational pull to keep those stars in. (imagine a hurricane, drops of water are always flying off as the hurricane spins ...)

So, there must be a 'dark matter' IN the galaxy to provide enough gravity to keep those stars on the fringes from spinning off.

In my paper, I suggest that space manifests as mass in its polar interaction with the sub-atomic particle, and the consequent influx of space unto the particle, causing the fabric of space to stretch or flow, has the effect of gravity.

Now, when we're talking about the vast amounts of space between each solar-system, where there is little to no particle matter, (and hence no mass,) then I believe the fabric of Space is 'condensed', or is 'thick'. The closer you get to the solar system, the more Space thins out, as it begins to interact with the higher concentration of particles. This 'thinning' out of Space as it gets closer to the solar-system, I believe, is what we call 'dark matter'.

Now, at this point, I am still not saying 'space has mass'. I am actually explaining how space can have gravitational influence on stellar bodies WITHOUT mass, in the case of dark matter.

Vmarco, I hope you're enjoying that computer that you're using to interact with an international community. Because it was scientific progress that makes it possible.

Maybe you should go live in a cave.

I remember reading alot about that...

The mysterious pass is the gateway between your conscious being and Nothingness. That being said, the gate does not really 'exist'. It is like a Zen Koan-- it puts your mind to rest on Nothing. When you 'pass the gate', your mind is no longer actively fixed on anything. It is truly at rest. and so at peace.

That is how the ancient Daoists described it in their primitive terminology. You must realize that however they have introduced these techniques to us, theirs is still a primitive understanding of what is really going on.

If you are genuinely interested in enlightened understanding, I would suggest you avoid interpreting the experience through religious (ie buddhist) or alchemical (ie primitive daoist) terms. They reek of ignorance =p

I think it works like hypnosis.

So, if you want to be hypnotized into believing that what you are doing is having specific results, then it is probably a good idea to buy the audio and incorporate it into your sex-life. If you listen to it repeatedly, it will be more ingrained into your consciousness, and it will become more real for you.

As a genuine Daoist, in earnest pursuit of Dao, I have to approach everything logically, and with a scientific attitude.

I can't allow myself to indulge in spiritual fantasies and rumors.

So, I thought I would advance the question: Can anybody explain qigong in better terms, than the intentional development of the bodies electromagnetic field?

Apparantly the bodies electromagnetic field stores metabolic energy in cells, triggers internal changes... enhances the efficiency of the nervous system.... what else?

I suspect that there is a strong connection between contracted muscles and tissues and nerves' EM fields... for example, whatever muscles / tissues may be chronically contracted (clenched,) which over a long period of time will have an adverse effect on the EM field in that part of the body. The failing EM field then leads to degenerating tissues, because they can't metabolize energy at an efficient rate.

But if we do Qigong, and enhance the bodies EM field, then I think that those chronically clenched muscles/tissues will release, which will lead to a healthier tissue metabolism. Potentially, I think that you can become very incredibly healthy, by maintaining a strong EM field, as the body metabolizes energy at efficient rates, and the general nervous system is improved-- which includes things like awesome neurotansmitting proweress.

Feelings of peace and well-being follow, if not only from heightened state of health, but because all the muscles/tissues that were chronically clenched have finally been relaxed. You become cool, calm, collective, and happy. The physical burden of chronic emotional states are released.

..............but does the potential of qigong practice end there?????

yes , probably. Unless anybody can explain to me in rational terms the 'mystical' consequences of qigong, that most of you have been brain-washed to believe.

I thought I would share this, if anyone would care to comment.

ontology.pdf

IN FACT YOU KNOW WHAT

THAT BECAUSE OF THIS -DISCREPENCY- IN OUR -INTERPRETATIONS- OF THE TEXT

THAT IT WOULD -APPEAR- AS IF YOU ARE USING 'THE SECRET OF THE GOLDEN FLOWER' AS A BASIS FOR MAKING YOUR SPIRITUAL WEB-SITE A LITTLE MORE IMPRESSIVE

P.S. HAS AWAKEN YOUR KUNDALINI BESTOWEN UPON THEE THE POWER TO -READ- ?

THANK YOU