Forestgreen

My system is ....

The forest brothers

Nice transcript. Slightly too focused on samadhi for my taste, but we are all limited by the spiritual knowledge we have. In this case, having trained oneself in the art of concentration will make visualization easy, and that can refine energy and lead it up until it becomes a bridge to the One. But the point here is to "implant" stuff in the chakras (existing or not). Colours, shapes, mantras: All in this case relating to the elements. It is the elements that should be implanted, the rest are just symbols used to allow the mind to access the elements. In my practice, we do not go though those symbols, instead we learn to access the elements in other ways. And the result is different from the above. And follow the intent of kundalini yoga as described in one or two of the 20 yoga upanishads. In short, the linked text is a very good example showing that someone can be highly trained and accomplished in one tradition, and still miss out when trying to train from books.

You could always bring up the nature of kundalini. One or two of the yoga upanishads are really helpful, and quite different from the popular view of the subject. And through those, there is a bridge to chinese traditions.

Maybe not even that. That sounds more like biomechanics. Useful, but the post heaven dantian should be so much more. Pre-heaven, at least in my practice, the notion of dantian is just another habit that should be shed. It is useful when the post heaven reacts to the pre heaven.

I start every morning with foundational practices, and move on from there. But even the foundational practices are informed by the more advanced practices. I have written some about the different categories of Xian in my ppd, and for the one I am aiming for, practice differ from what we normally argue about here. If you saw me practice, you would say moving and static qigong. What's happening from my perspective is quite different though.

I'd like one of those too. Thanks.

Or, you could just read the thread. Or maybe just my posts. It's not like it is one of the threads from "the summer if love", with a post count above 1000.

So when you refer to chinese martial artists, that is the truth. When I refer to chinese teachers, they are wrong? Cool.

Really, has your ability to discuss this topic sunk this low? Can you not recall any of the similar discussions about this topic you have been in (normally with people that feature the moderation log)? Or maybe just look back in this thread, where I gave two examples and you are stuck on one of them. Both of them feature in traditional daoist traditions. I believe that both have value, but they are not the same.

I know, in your opinion it all boils down to abdominal breathing, and next comes oxygen levels. During the last decade, any number of people has written that your view is limited and not in line with what Chinese native qigong, neigong and neidan teachers teach. Cool though that you hold on to your view. I must admit that there are several aspects of these arts that my view differs considerable from where I was ten years ago.

Does neidan make sense, until someone tells you what stuff really means?

Well, I am aware of it. And if your point is that in the daoist section, people making comparison with other (dis)similar methods could be more open to the differences, and that their methods will be compared to the daoist methods, I'm with you.

Some are similar to what Damo Mitchell teaches, these are public and easy to find. Some are similar to what Rudi reaches, it would be rude of me to discuss them here. And some are mudra based. The mudras are publicly available, but lacking in description.

And many that goes with option no 2, which begets the question. Maybe the difference between our understandings is that you focus on taiji (?) and has been introduced to one way of doing things, while I train a method that sooner or later introduces two or more ways of doing a thing or accomplish a goal. Life (and discussions) seems easier when there is just one option, but practice is easier when there are more expedient means.

No No. Why?

Some are in it for cool siddhis. But, the energetics is also a support for the mind, becoming a support for awakening.

But Shaolin traditions do.

In those traditions that claims it has to be built, the (physical) ldt does not exist by definition. I have practices that work on the ldt that definitely feels like the whole lower abdomen is involved. I also have practices that definitely feels like a golf ball sized thing exists in a more specific location inside my lower abdominal area. That leads to questions. Which sensation is the real ldt? And was it created or developed? What if the fallacy is to equal lower abdomen with ldt?

Härligt, välkommen hit.

The last two years I have been working with the pre heaven bagwa. There were a handful of other central experiences inbetween the torus and where I am now, and I am definetly not the same person. I would say that working with the torus fields was very useful, and an important step in the right direction for me.

Does one have to build a dantian in order to be a martial artist? Ask a boxer or a wrestler. They would laugh at the idea. Is the post heaven jing to qi to shen model used by Robert Coons internal alchemy as I see it? No. And I never understood how pasting a "pre heaven" before jing-qi-shen would add clarity. In my practice that doesn't compute, and so far noone has been able to explain it to me. Please do! Is it advantageous to learn methods that supposedly build a physical dantian? Well, anyone can get a sensation of heat and pressure without it. For me, the sensation of (almost) physical movement inside, like tissues being pushed aside by an object, didn't come until after I had worked with the methods that supposedly build a physical dantian. Can't say I relate it to my neidan practice more than as a support for foundational practices. But after years here and on the internet in general, my conclusion is that the world is larger than the method I practice. It is likely that there is a method creating neidan that is based upon the created physical dantian? Yes. Most likely.

I am limited to books focusing on theravada and yogacara, but I do recall discussions about self-nature expanded to for example a chair ( there is no chair-ness beyond dependant origination, usually followed by a discussion about the nature of dhammas).

The torus field, I had a period when that was the central experience. Does it become stronger near trees?

In my practice, the first would be a description of energetics on a post heaven intermediate level, and the second would be seen as a misunderstanding of the process.