YMWong

Thank you very much for this video. Thinking about this "乱世 / 末法时代 trouble era" ..., how should we find the truth and sages ? Hope having chance to learn from this hermit on Zhongnan mountain. Would you mind share to us how could we reach him ?

Master Zhang spends now half of each year in a hut on Zhongnan mountain, where only a few disciples pay visit.

In the last few years, since his appointment as abbot of Yuchan Temple in Hainan, he also spend some time on the island where people can easily find him http://www.yuchangong.com/yuchangong/daozhang/315.shtml

Best

YM

Here is a nice video of Longmen Master Zhang Zhishun (born 1912) who lived most of his life as a hermit on Zhongnan mountain, showing a daoist massage for health and well-being.

When asked if these people could take this video, no money involved of course, he replied "of course, and show it to as many people as possible so they don't need to spend their money at hospitals"

A breath of fresh air

YM

explanations can be found here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21301&page=1

YM

A report about last year seminar

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/jan/13/notes-chinese-cave/

YM

Here we go again, what a sad story ...

http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Pai-Nei-Kung-ebook/dp/B006NZWUUE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

YM

Thanks for clarifying that for us. It reminds me of jesus saying that it was easier for a camel to fit through a needle eye than a rich person to ascend to heaven.

 

I didn't mean to twists words, I was just not familiar with that aspect of daoism. And personally, i tend to think that it is more virtuous to provide a service in return for your keep than to beg for it, but thats just an attitude that i carry, im not saying its correct or anything.

The begging requirement is not "an aspect of Daoism" but a requirement in certain sects, in particular the early Quanzhen and derivated like Longmen.

Every school has its methods to attain its goals and, all long Chinese history, there has been quite a debate between schools that considered themselves "orthodox" against what they perceived as "unorthodox".

So there is not a ''single way" but many ways, each one with its characteristics and methods.

It suffices to find one which has produced good results/masters and follow it's requirements.

YM

that makes a lot more sense. There's a big difference between not being greedy and giving up money.

My friend,

one can certainly try to twist words in order to try and make them fit their wishful thinking but that doesn't change the facts. The early Quanzhen masters were ALL beggars and were required to give up their wealth, in case they had it, as been extremely poor and begging was one of the MUST in their Way of attaining sainthood.

So extreme poverty was a requirements to be pursued THROUGHOUT their lives, it suffices to go through the works of Quanzhen founder, of his first line disciples and the many second generations to find concrete evidence to put the words into correct perspective.

Best

YM

I am curious what's the point you are trying to make here ?

I was replying to Ish, as you can see from my quote above, similarly to what you replied to the "200 y.o. master" allegation

YM

Well this instruction is "how to train yourself". If you are already trained then i don't think you need to live as a beggar, doesn't exactly give you a means to spread the teachings.

"One of the most prominent traits of the early Quanzhen school was its ascetism. Hagiographic sources and personal testimonies indicate that all of the early Quanzhen masters lived austere lives and underwent periods of intense self-denial. Throughout their lives they followed the ideal of 'pure poverty' (qingpin) and relied on begging as their primary means of sustenance. "

http://imageshack.us/g/824/001dmxg.jpg/

YM

...

Thanks! Thats interesting.

 

Do you know of any high daoist masters who teach the public for free?

All daoist teachers teach for free, but they do not teach "the public" and instead only pass the tradition to the few who have the destiny (緣分) to receive it.

So you will hardly read about them on the web

YM

Daoists don't take vows of poverty and don't have anything against making money by their teachings.

As taught by Quanzhen Founder Wang Chongyang, teacher of Longmen founder Qiu Chuji:

Chongyang zhenren jinguan yusuo jue

重陽真人金關玉鎖訣

YM

You know that Master Wang's teacher is still alive at over 200 years old!

Wow, I guess he should get enormous money for seminars then ...

Master Wang never dies his hair; all his senior students know this.

I did not say if he dies his hair or not as I don't know, just like yourself, I just reported a common Chinese custom.

Maybe you should try to ask him at next seminar and see what he tells you?

YM

I personally trained with Master Wang this past December and he is in excellent athletic shape, his hair is still black [...]

Hu Jintao, born 1942

Zhu Rongji, born 1928

And most other chinese men with some money or power (usually both), or even common people, DIE THEIR HAIR

YM

http://www.examiner.com/holistic-science-spirit-in-national/new-scientific-breakthrough-proves-why-acupuncture-works?mid=51

YM

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/the-supernaturalist-levitation.html

YM

I am aware that he was taught by his father and also studied with the mountain hermits in China. He and his family fled to Hong Kong during the Cultural Revolution where he worked as TCM healer and wrote several books in Chinese, and then he was invited to US by a Daoist group looking for a traditional teacher. Thereafter he has written scores of books in English with the help of his US friends. Alot of these books are based on transcripts of his lectures.

Hello Stig,

as I am sure you are aware Master Ni fled to Taiwan (not Hong Kong) where he taught for a number of years before moving to the US. At the time he was a techer of Martial Arts and most of his books in chinese were MA related.

For more info I suggest the informative first-hand account in issue 3 (I seem to recall) of the Journal of Daoist Studies (http://www.threepinespress.com/?p=6)

YM

But, notice how it actually took him 15 YEARS to truly open his SHO! Which means that what a lot of New Agers here often believe they have opened in mere months...might just be some partial "false waterwheel" activation...

Well ... the same blog claims also

In 2002, I taught a friend from Beijing on Xing Long Mountain, originally plan was to teach for 10 days, he opened up his Channel SHO on the 9th day.

 

In 2004, I taught a friend in Lanzhou, he was hospitalized for 40 days due to an injury to the intervertebral disc in the lumbar. I taught him once a day and after a month, not only did he open up the Channel SHO, the lumbar injury was also healed up nicely.

 

In 2005, I taught a Chinese American lawyer, planned to teach for 10 days and he opened his SHO on the 7th.

 

In 2008, I taught a pair of sisters, planned to teach 10 days, the younger sister open her SHO on the 5th and the older one

YM

I'm going to respectfully disagree on this point. If you know how to apply fa jin, it can be useful in close quarters fighting.

If you have no guts, in "close quarter fighting", you will be too busy filling up your underpants to think about your flashy 'fajin'

YM

Yup I am still hearing you. And yet the Taiji world is proliferated by folks who make a living pandering this stuff to salivating "believers". Why do you think this is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

YM

Empty Force Fajin, also referred to as Fa Shen or Lingkong Jin, is where the demonstrator doesn't touch the subject at all; they can make them move at a distance. For the moment I am leaving this totally alone and focusing on the simple stage of where the demonstrator can be touched by the subject as outlined in Michaels comments.

I am afraid this "simple stage" described by Mr. Phillips does not exist in Taijiquan

YM

Basically, this is Lingkong jin

I also suggest everyone to go throu all of the excellent Derren Brown videos which very much concern not only to this specific topic but to a lot of posts on this forum IMO

Best

YM

And here is him demonstrating:

 

http://youtu.be/3CHCJjKjwMk

 

Now is this, in your educated opinion, what fajin is?

No, in my opinion this is just wishful thinking but to each his own

In any case, even if one has real 'jin' it is still useless in a fight, unless he has the number one quality necessary in Martial Arts: guts

If you want to see real 'jin' you better look in this direction

YM

PS: it seems you are now talking about 'empty-fo(a)rce' so that would be so-called 'lingkong jin' so I think you better get your terminology straight