YMWong

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Posts posted by YMWong

  1. Posted

    I kindly and respectfully recognize the two main schools are classified as Quanzhen and Zhengyi schools of Taoism/Daoist

     

    I was hoping you may be willing to delve a little bit into the biggest differences between these classifications of Taoist/Daoist Schools.

     

    Peacefully and Sincerely,

    WTiger

     

    Hello WT,

     

    the attempt to categorize Daoist Schools under the two banners of Quanzhen and Zhengyi is in fact an early one, dating from late Song early Yuan when the Quanzhen gained prominance in China under the Mongols and then kept its strength in the Ming under the Han again.

    It is, however, more an 'organized simplification' than a factual division. Since very early on Daoist Schools were many and varied, with practices and believes so different that at times collided in history.

     

    In VERY general terms, in any case, Zhengyi's kind of schools are ritualistic in nature and their adherents do not live a monastic life, they have kids (and in fact Zhengyi's transmission is a familiar one) and family.

    They have a complex and organic system developed through almost 200 years of history.

     

    Quanzhen's like schools are monastic, their adherents often live in temples, are celibate and observe strict vegetarian diet and very strict buddhist-like rules. These sects are more sincretic in nature and in fact mix buddhism, confucianism and daoism under the same roof. Consider for instance that Quanzhen adherents are required to study and recite a number of Classics some of which buddhist (like the Heart Sutra) or confucians (like the Classic of Filial Piety).

     

    YM

  2. Posted

    Daozhen,

     

    most Daoists in China now are vegetarian only because the Government sort of placed Quanzhen Daoism above all other schools, when Daoism was resurrected with China's opening in the late 70ies (early 80ies).

    Actually only a minor part of Daoists, traditionally, are strictly vegetarian while most of them eat *everything* thou according to some rules ~ so for instance they are vegetarian in certain period of the year or following certain specific practices.

     

    Daoism in Wudang follow the national trend so of course the monastic order Quanzhen, together with its derivatives and mainly the Lungmen sect, are the most popular nowadays.

     

    When China opened its doors the Government decided to categorize all daoist schools under two orders: Quanzhen and Zhengyi ~ so in fact most of the daoists were made to 'follow' rules and regulation they did not belong to.

    Moreover, the Central Government realized that Quanzhen - being monastic and 'quiet' in nature - would be easier to handle so priority was given to Quanzhen and derivatives.

    Those who did not agree with the policy have been practicing in private ever since, so you won't find them at any temple, daoist 'meetings' etc. All others have accepted the policy so most of them had to "re-organize" their Daoist life in accordance to the new regulations. I am not saying here this is necessarily a bad or negative thing, of course, as historically speaking studying with various masters under different schools in one's daoist life was the norm. The difference, however, is that this time it was not a real personal choice :)

     

    YM

  3. Posted · Edited by YMWong

    A virus by itself is neither trivial nor not trivial. Triviality - besides being subjective - requires a context.

     

    I thought this one was enough a context ...

     

    Definitely Taoist practice can be against any virus and let you get immunity from it . From Taoist point of view, whatever forms and characters the virus appear, they are composed of yin and yang qi , just like computer virus, whatever names/character they are, all their executable codes across different platforms are composed of 0 or 1; so to Taoists practitioners, they are never afraid of virus in any forms , in any of its newly developed forms, they are just something trivial

     

    Best

     

    YM

  5. Posted · Edited by YMWong

    In Taoism , childlike character and naive in its positive implication , are nothing bad.

     

    LOL

     

    The 'childlike' attitude Daoism speaks about is a RETURN in which one has to GROW first :)

     

    Otherwise any moron* (stupid) out there would be the perfect daoist ...

     

    YM

     

    * and suggesting that all viruses are a trivial thing is really a stupid thing ... unless one can proove it :)

  8. Posted

    The point is : what is more fundamental? The point is whether we believe qi as the most basic blocks of our world, and it can be understand , manipulated by our mind directly . If we believe it , then any virus , in whatever bad ,strange forms, in whatever scaring forms, after entering our body , can be manipulated and disintegrated

    by us . There is no need to rely on other means ; our mind, and the high-quality qi we initialize , are already enough to cure . Of course, if both patient and doctor are ignorant of the way of manipulating qi , and its higher form, shen, then it is another story .

     

    In Taoism, a philosophical system is also a medical system . Qi, ying ang yang are also the concepts, categories and means of curing no difference from DNA, herbs...

     

    You are talking theory I am talking practice, so I repeat: can you get an IV of HIV infected blood and show me how HIV virus is trivial to you ?

    If you can't, all your nice theory is only wishful thinking and nothing else.

     

    No matter how good we are, how well we "manipulate qi" - to use your words - there may always be 'energies' (for lack of a better word) better/stronger than us.

    So any person with a clever mind, daoist or not, would ALWAYS try to avoid risks when they are unnecessary which means that NO VIRUS is trivial in itself. That's an unwise approach, let me tell you.

     

    YM

  11. Posted · Edited by YMWong

    Yet I do know some Taoist practice . Definitely Taoist practice can be against any virus and let you get immunity from it . From Taoist point of view, whatever forms and characters the virus appear, they are composed of yin and yang qi , just like computer virus, whatever names/character they are, all their executable codes across different platforms are composed of 0 or 1; so to Taoists practitioners, they are never afraid of virus in any forms , in any of its newly developed forms, they are just something trivial ...Hong Kong were attacked by bird flu and SARS many times in recent years , in its utmost serious condition, you nearly can't see any people walk in streets in night , yet I was the very few who wandered at ease in streets , enjoying the special calmness that you never find in a big city... Forgive me to be candid, I wonder why people not raising something more fatal ?

     

    We did not walk around during Sars simply because density of population in HK is extreme so walking around a few minutes will get you in close contact with LOTS of people.

    Needless to say, if most people follow this advise the streets are empty and those few moving around are pretty safe ~ taoist protection or not.

     

    By the way, just like medicines don't work all the times in all cases there is no perfect protection for anything all the times. So no sane person, daoist or not, would go around looking for troubles.

    Or else, all daoists in history would have lived a healthy life and died over a 100 ~ while many did not.

     

    YM

     

    EDIT: if all viruses are a 'trivial' thing, try to get an IV of HIV postive blood and let us know what you do with your daoist practice

  12. Posted

    First of all on the taobums we don't use words like obesity or over weight - but rather "buddha belly" and such

    it's all energy or light , your see...

    Second - how do you expect Kunlun to cure mental issues when it's first step is to create a mental issue ?

    When you first go to see Max and you ask him to make you move/dance or whatever those other clowns (older students) are doing - he can't do it on a new guy unless you r already a little bit "not there"

    however after a while you listen to him and you are just "blown away" by his "humbleness" and charisma and "knowledge" and you slowly let go of your good ol common sense and then you start moving or dancing or whatever Max wants you to do - so who knows from that perspective maybe if you abandon yourself completely he could cure your HIV or transform you into a light bulb or whatever else crosses his mind ....

     

    We have a guy here at the local Walmart's parking lot and he is convinced that he is Elvis ! Otherwise very nice guy - even charismatic I would say...

     

    funny and very TRUE

     

    :)

     

    YM

  13. Posted · Edited by YMWong

    hi, i'm interested to know the history of burning joss paper instead of real money in funeral traditions.

     

    Can you tell me which book are you talking about and other references on that matter.

     

    thanx to all

     

    There are various books on the subject, you may start with this:

     

    For Gods, Ghosts and Ancestors

    The Chinese Tradition of Paper Offerings

    Janet Lee Scott

     

    $30.00s paperback (9780295987187)

    hardcover not available

    Published: 2007

    Subject Listing: Asian Studies, Anthropology, Religion

    Bibliographic information: 336 pp., 64 color illus., 6 x 9 in.

    Territorial rights: Western Hemisphere, UK, Europe

     

    Contents

     

    Offerings of various kinds - food, incense, paper money, and figures - have been central to Chinese culture for millennia, and as a public, visual display of spiritual belief, they are still evident today in China and in Chinatowns around the world. Using Hong Kong as a case study, Janet Scott looks at paper offerings from every conceivable angle - how they are made, sold, and used. Her comprehensive investigation touches on virtually every aspect of Chinese popular religion as it explores the many forms of these intricate objects, their manufacture, their significance, and their importance in rituals to honor gods, care for ancestors, and contend with ghosts.

     

    Throughout For Gods, Ghosts and Ancestors, paper offerings are presented as a vibrant and living tradition expressing worshippers' respect and gratitude for the gods, as well as love and concern for departed family members. Ranging from fake paper money to paper furniture, servant dolls, cigarettes, and toiletries - all multihued and artfully constructed - paper offerings are intended to provide for the needs of those in the spirit world.

     

    Readers are introduced to the variety of paper offerings and their uses in worship, in assisting worshippers with personal difficulties, and in rituals directed to gods, ghosts, and ancestors. We learn of the manufacture and sale of paper goods, life in paper shops, the training of those who make paper offerings, and the symbolic and artistic dimensions of the objects. Finally, the book considers the survival of this traditional craft, the importance of flexibility and innovation, and the role of compassion and filial piety in the use of paper offerings.

     

    Janet Lee Scott has taught anthropology and sociology at the Chinese University of Hong Kong and Hong Kong Baptist University. She is currently an associate in-research at the Fairbank Center for East Asian Research at Harvard University.

     

    "This is the book on practices of making, offering, and consuming ritual paper in the Chinese cultural tradition. . . . the book is a gold mine, providing a wealth of specific information. . . a treasure which will be profitably transformed into intellectual capital by generations of scholars to come." - Journal of Chinese Religions

     

    "This is a book that all specialists on Chinese religion, arts, and material culture need to read. For Gods, Ghosts and Ancestors is an excellent source for teaching, both undergraduate and graduate. Scott invested years of research into this project and is the world's leading expert on Chinese paper arts." - James L. Watson, Harvard University

  15. Posted

    Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased.

    He didn't know he was Zhuangzi.

     

    Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi.

    But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.

     

    Between Zhuangzi and a butterfly there must be some distinction!

     

    This is called the Transformation of Things.

     

    Zhuang Zi, tr. Burton Watson 1968

  18. Posted

    Opening and managing a center would be a legitimate job.

     

     

    Opening a center i.e. setting up a business in a field of one's own interest is of course a legitimate thing.

     

    Trying to avoid life responsibilities and doing only what one feels like by way of raising money from donations ("donations" for what, to set up a business ?) to buy lands under one's own name (but wasn't he intersted in meditating ?) and pretending to be a non-profit in buddhist/daoist fields (subjects of which he clearly has no clue) but of course maybe he will get a "Qigong certification" if necessary ...

     

    LOL

     

    YM

  19. Posted

    I am not sure if it would be legal to have the land in my name or not, but if so then I would be guaranteed a home, and a livelyhood for the rest of my life.

     

    Funny how you openly admit being lazy.

    Actually more sad than funny ...

     

    Move your ass and get yourself a job like everybody else instead of wasting people's time

     

    YM

     

    PS: as an option, since you seem to be young, find and old and rich lady to marry

  22. Posted

    YM - I'm not that smart. Maybe you could just layout the facts of your case in step-by-step fashion. In the meantime, it'll continue to be an open issue in my mind.

     

    According to Moy's own chart he learned, and became 'lineage holder', under a 12th century person named 'Tien Lung'. And, by the way, there is no 'Tien Lung' (Tian Long) person in the Xiantian Wuji Sect that I know let alone the fact that from the 12th century it's quite a big jump.

     

    So the facts are:

     

    - Eva Wong claims to be lineage holder of the Xiantian Wuji Sect for her connection to Moy Lin Shin

    - Moy Lin Shin claimed (in the US) to be lineage holder of that sect because his direct connection to a 12th century 'person'

     

    Moy was loosely affiliated with the Yuen Yuen Institute (Xuan Xuan Xue Yuan) here in Hong Kong which is a Quan Zhen / Long Men reformed/lay derivative. Just like our friend Mr. Mak, who claims to be a "celestial master" because some spirits told him so, Moy should have met a 'Tien Lung' in a seance sitting and thus claimed relevant connection to that sect.

     

    It is also interesting to note that, apart from all the BS meter these kinds of things raise, the Xiantian Wuji Sect did not exist yet in the 12th century it being a sub-sect of the Xiantian Sect which - this main one - started around that period.

     

    But I guess the 'spirit' told him otherwise :)

     

    YM

     

    Yes, Sun Di never studied directly with Wang Xiang Zhai as this lineage chart shows:If Eva Wong studied with Sun Di, I think that would make her a fifth generation lineage holder (not third generation), wouldn't it? Hmmm.

     

    Yes, first of all a FIFTH and not a SECOND generation.

    Moreover NOT a lineage holder but simply a third generation since NONE of those above her is a lineage holder.

    Liang Zi Peng is spinning in his grave ... :)

     

    YM

    • Like 1

  23. Posted

    You have to understand that Eva Wong has been claiming the 'Xiantian Wuji" line ever since she was a disciple of the late Moy Lin Shin (of "Taoist Tai Chi" fame).

    Moy himself had a (very little) connection with a lay Daoist group in Hong Kong but became ipso-facto a great Daoist Master after moving to the US, also claiming to be lineal for the sect in question.

     

    So let me attach here a Lineage Chart from the early material of the late Master Moy:

     

    moylineage.th.jpg

     

    Where you can see how he derives his 'Xiantian Wuji" lineage DIRECTLY from a "Tien Lung" (Celestial Dragon :) of the "13th-14th" century.

     

    Does this tell you anything ?

     

    :)

     

    YM

    • Like 1

  24. Posted

    YM,

     

    From my perspective, when assertions are made in a public forum concerning someone's credentials (or lack thereof), there should be publicly available source citations for the assertions, otherwise, those assertions are just inference, innuendo, hearsay.

     

    I have Eva Wong's books and I would truly like to know what her credentials are. I've spent time looking for sources to prove that Eva Wong does not have the credentials she claims, and I've come up empty so far. So if you have some facts that support your assertion, please post them.

     

    Thanks :)

     

    AL,

     

    I have said more than once that I enjoy Wong's works and I think they are useful and nicely written.

    But if you tell me that you have a Master Degree from Harvard you have to show me the certification, you cannot expect that I provide you with the whole list of Harvard alumni to disproove it no ?

     

    If, then, it seems you have never been to the United States it would seem unlikely that you can have a Harvard Degree, right ? ~ I don't think, for instance, that a "Lineage Holder of the Xiantian Wuji Pai" has ever existed in Hong Kong.

    So what do you say ?

     

    For what Sun Di concerns, one of his masters that I cited (Lee Ying-Arng) was one of my sibak (gongfu uncle) so I am quite sure of what I am saying. If that's not enough I attach here Sun Di's biography from a public source which corroborates what I just told you:

     

    sundi.jpg

     

    YM

  25. Posted

    I'd be interested in a public source citation that shows otherwise. :)

     

    AugustLeo,

     

    to be "the 19th-generation lineage carrier of Xiantianwujimen" one has be - AT LEAST - disciple of the 18th lineage holder: can we know who would that be ?

     

    Moreover, Sun Di NEVER studied Yiquan with its founder but mainly under Liang Zi Peng and, for some time, under Lee Ying-Arng.

     

    YM