YMWong

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13570200/The-tea...t-Master-Chuang YM

No, it won't Different pricing in China for local and for Chinese has been employed since China's opening to the outside world in the late 70ies early 80ies. At the time, basically everything was differently priced from Hotel to local flights and the excahnge was often 1RMB = 1USD. I think this law became obsolete in the late 80ies and was cancelled. WLP's people, been a private group, have been keeping the 'tradition' alive and still charges foreigners at 1=1 exchange rate. In any case, moving to China won't change the rule as you will still be a 'foreigner' even if you have rights to live in China, so you will still pay X7 or X8 the price. So, yes, in a way it is racial discimination. YM

Like in the west most ladies, and many men, like to reduce their real age to "be young" in China many old people would do the opposite as in that (traditional) culture 'old' is equal to 'wise'. Then other people try to capitalize on those 'old men' so age keeps incresing even more This is Duan's profile in chinese http://www.chinese-doctor.com/old/gerenwan...danzhiliang.htm Best YM

It's always funny to see people falling for these stories. Duan Zhiliang was born on august 1931, which makes him NOW not yet 78 and of course even younger at the time of this video (which btw sells him for 92). LOL YM

The Celestial Masters line moved to Taiwan in 1949 with their 63th Lineage Holder Zhang Enpu. So from then on Mainland China DID NOT have a standard bearer of that line, which traditionally is passed to the (first) son of the original Zhang family since the times of the Founder Zhang Daoling. Zhang Enpu died in Taiwan in 1969 and the title passed on to Zhang Yuanxian where it remained until his passing last year (there were issues raised about this passage too, but I'll leave that to another time). In China in the meantime, after the opening of the early 80ies, the Government couldn't accept that the actual Zhang family emigrated to Taiwan so after a number of ups and downs 'another' 64th was nominated i.e. Zhang Jindao. Zhang Jindao by the way was not even a 'direct' descendant as the tradition requires but a family member on a daugher side, and in fact he had to change his original family name to Zhang in order to finally be recognized. Needless to say, his position was mainly a political one. When Zhang Yuanxian passed away last year there was a lot of discussion about descendancy, as Yuanxian did not have any son but only a daughter. The discussion went on for a while to see whether the thousand-years old tradition could be changed to allow for a female Standard Bearer. Now, recently, this news about this other person who apparently managed to get the two sides happy and actually tries to take Yuanxian's place ... YM

Wow May we know who this emperor-appointed Celestial Master would be and where was he located when Dr. Johnson studied with him ? TIA YM

Here you are Vortex The article was published a short time ago in a Journal here in Hong Kong. The author, Wang Tingjun, is a disciple of WLP and was with the study group. By the way, Wang Tingjun holds classes frequently in Europe YM

What can I say, this is his BIOGRAPHY from HIS OWN website ... YM

Again, it suffices to see his old website (here is the 2002 version) http://web.archive.org/web/20021016172700/...g/biography.htm Biography Kwan Sai-Hung was born in ShaanXi province 1920. At the age of 9 his rebellious nature landed him on the steps of HuaShan monastery. There he studied Taoist philosophy and Qigong practices. [here the caption say "Kwan Sai-Hung circa. 1985" i.e. he was 65 in this pic ] Kwan Sai-Hung was born into a prominent martial arts family. Most of his Martial Arts training was given to him by traveling Masters who were visiting his grandfather. While still in the monastery, Kwan Sai-Hung became restless and longed to see the world. Seeing this his master told him that he should search for his answers outside the monastery, that temple life was not for him. During his travels, Kwan Sifu met two Wandering Taoists. It is to these two that he credits his deeper understanding of Living Taoism. YM

I am quite sure, and somebody with an original edition of DMD's work might confirm (?), that nowhere were the original books presented as "novel". The explanations were later introduced after Kai was found (and was clearly not octuagenarian) and the first reviews like that of Anderson were written. Given that Kai was born in the US and was half the age he was supposed to be one is left to wonder how much "biographical" can be the (then) novel written by DMD ... YM

I have never compared the original edition with Cleary's translation side-by-side but in terms of content they are basically the same, for as much as I can recall. We read the original edition a few years before the english version, which I bought but never really find the time to read in depth. The original was not a hit on the local market, at all, a book printed in many copies but seldom seen on any bookshelf around. Probably for this reason there was never much 'reviewing' as it was never a best-seller like Deng Ming Dao in the west. I don't particolarly like it either but, as always, it is more a matter of personal tastes I guess YM

Of course you don't tell a kid that Santa Claus doesn't exist but you expect a grown up to give ol' Santa the right value in the scale of things, no ? So unless some of the posters here are below the age of 10 I think that giving correct information is useful. What people does with that info then, eventually confirms whether they are above 10 or not YM

None, in my opinion For those inclined in this genre I'd suggest an old 'classic' instead: Seven Taoist Masters A Folk Novel of China Translated by Eva Wong Paperback / Shambhala Classics / 208 pages / 6 x 9 ISBN 978-1-59030-176-0 / October 2004 http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/item...9030-176-5.cfm/ that depics the story of the early Quanzhen group, including of course the Longmen (to be) founder Master Qiu. These books, however, should be taken as 'inspirational' and not as (strictly) historical works YM Well, simply check and let us know the date of publication of your copy to see wether it is later than 1989-90 (date of publication of Anderson's review) and considering that the original version is dated 1983 if the quoted part is not there anymore we can all make up our mind as to why YM

WT, Deng mingdao's books has been published and republished, so I guess you are reading a different edition to the one criticized by Anderson (possibly a later edition ?). YM

Kwan Sai Hung does not exist, it is only a fictional character from a novel written by Deng Mingdao, a book which has close to nothing of actual historical value. The person who goes by that name is an american of (mixed) chinese descent named Frank Kai, born and raised in the US. "It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). " Poul Andersen, A Visit to Huashan in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90) Needless to say, Frank Kai was NOT born in china in 1920 ... unless you expect this guy to be 90 years old YM

There are of course always many sides to a story but let me ask you: did you read the book I was talking about ? I think the info in there are quite well documented but I'd be happy to hear precise confuting arguments Best YM

The late master Hai Deng was NOT a shaolin nor a monk but, as boy, a street performer. He was raised to fame in the early 80ies by some chinese TV documentaries, then accused of cheating. Some of his early assistants confessed and a book was written by a journalist confirming all the accuses with actual witnesses accounts. Sad but true YM

'Recognition' is not what one daoist would be looking for. The 'daoist world' is a most varied one, daoist schools in history have taken the most different shapes from huge lectures/groups of hundreds to one-on-one transmission to very formal temple initiation. In every school all students have and know their place, who is senior and who is junior. Moreover, most daoists have/had the habit or roaming the mountains to futher their studies with masters from different schools, hence the term 'travelling (studing) with master so-and-so'. This to say that there is really no standard and every school and teacher have his own method. Official certifications have been issued by the large groups that, in history, have been at times 'State Religion' (a term to be taken with a grain of salt as China was seldom an all-unified country in reality) and that had been trying to create a structure that could adhere somehow to the Confucian elite which would gave them a sort of control over the whole organization So for instance the Zhengyi (Celestial Master) school developed a very complex system in which Daoists were initiated at certain specific 'registers' identified by 'levels' (pin) modeled on the Confucian officials system. Each register would confer the Daoist initiate with specific control over specific deities/spirits and this information was made public on the initiation certificate. YM

Hello Mike, while you are right-on and I fully agree with much of what you say about DV, certification is actually quite uncommon in traditional daoism. Historically speaking only very few lineages, Zhengyi of course comes to mind, do issue official certifications to the initiate while most of the others don't. WLP's kind of certification is a very modern one which he may, I guess, see as necessary in the modern world. Hi Ken, Djiang's line might have been generated by Mozi and/or his group but in a couple of thousand years it certainly fell to the influence of daoism - judging by what he does and practices. As you say here: Djiang's method is not standard 'leifa' (thunder method) for sure, it is simply too different from the actual system that - since the late Song - has been incorporated in many schools which - however - keep common basics. Indonesian Daoism has a 'local' flavour which is seldom seen in the Mainland, but it is sort of a standard in Indonesia and I have found common practices and terminology to be used by various groups with little or no contact. Something similar, although with a different twist, happens in Taiwan. Best YM

I am glad somebody has took the time to read and enjoy it, I do read quite a bit YM

I questioned him about similar matters before, at the time his website had different informations but in any case you may want to read this thread http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...ineage&st=0 Basically, his website does not mention ANY master he may have studied with, all 'masters' mentioned has been contacted in seance or - most probably - in his vivid imagination YM

Here they are on duty YM