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Posts posted by YMWong
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I'd personally walk from clinic to clinic healing people unaware. I'd minister to the needy and devote my life to helping others. If I could make level 72
To "devote your life helping others" you dont need any 'level', you only need to be compassionate enough so you can do it NOW
But you choose not to, apparently, so good luck for your search of the 72
YM
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The author and Frank Kai ("master" Kwan Sai Hung real name) did not take money from Blofeld pockets (thou they may have from his descendants, depending on the copyright situation of his works) but they DID stole money from the gullible who bought their books thinking they were a (real) biography and by teaching others directly (Frank Kai has a school and quite a few students). Please check my old message here http://thetaobums.com/topic/8102-master-kwan-sai-hung/?p=122152 for more details and info.
While there is no need to demonize them, I find it unacceptable to excuse them and even less to present them as the good Samaritans. They are just two business people into making money, even if that mean cheating their "customers"
YM
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Master "Kwan Sai Hung" (actually Frank Kai, born in New York) is a fictional character and Deng's book are totally made up, profusely copying existing works.
Also see for instance Poul Andersen, "A Visit to Huashan" in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90):
"It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). "
YM
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The most advanced being known to the public [...][...] according to a book written by a guy you don't know, about another guy you have never met
But of course, if that is "acceptable for your purposes" ... good luck!
YM
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No it shouldn't, there are 10 beings at or above his level alive on earth. That's it.You know a lot then
So you don't personally know JC, please correct me if I am wrong, so you don't really know "his level" (to use your words) and yet you are convinced that "there are only 10 ecc ecc"
Nice
YM
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Professional lumberjacks will be beyond a level I could ever dream of reaching in their system of cutting trees, doesn't mean I am interested in learning their art.If that was the matter in discussion then I guess your point of there being "10 beings at or above JC's level alive on earth, out of nearly 7 billion people" should change more to something in the range of hundreds of thousands, no?
YM
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I am not saying there are not tons of totally dedicated and focused and serious teachers, most probably beyond a level I could ever dream of reaching.What I am saying is their practices themselves are virtually worthless garbage, that could never take me where I want to go.
I am sorry but I don't get your point: if those people you mention are "beyond a level you could ever dream of reaching" why would their practice be garbage?
YM
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There are 10 beings at or above JC's level alive on earth, out of nearly 7 billion people.MPG, somebody who is in kindergarten does not need a PHD from Harvard as a master - any primary school teacher can do
The problem is that people have too high expectations and, very often, think so high of themselves that cannot accept anything less then a Nobel Laureate for mentor
YM
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Because the hard truth is, authentic teachers like JC aren't as easy to find, not as easy as finding another job anyway. If they were, all this discussion wouldn't have happened in the first place.Of course, but even with jobs you can have a great one, with lots of career opportunities, where you are treated well and you make good money ... or you have one of those shitty positions in a meaningless company that you hate
Life
YM
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And that, my friends, is 75% of why we’re seeing these arguments. .If I travel of my own volition to a different country I am bound to follow the local law
If then I commit an offense and I get arrested I cannot say "nobody told me" or "in my country we do otherwise" even if that is the case. It doesn't work like that
So while, as I said, one can empathize with Jim's situation that is not a reason to put the blame on the "cultural diversity" alone
Moreover, as I said, Jim seems to accept easily that somebody (Kosta) get kicked out from the school but when the same thing happens to him that is not acceptable anymore. This again rules out much of the "cultural diversity" problem, in my opinion
YM
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Dao for dollars., May 1, 2013This review is from: Tao Jiao Lei Fa: Taoist Thunder Magic Traditions and Their Relationship to Nei Kung Meditation (Kindle Edition)The work listed here, and others attributed to "Shifu Lin" have no real Daoist content, but are made up by the behind-the-scenes author for the purpose of making a profit, misleading readers both into believing that such a person as Shifu Lin existed, and/or is an orthodox Daoist. The Muo Pai school is also not a legitimate, recognized Wushu school, readers must be warned of the fictional (ie, made up)content of the actual author's works. The use of my name in "contributing" to these works refers to e-mails in which the author's erroneous ideas were hopefully pointed out. Works like these can be catalogued under the general title "Dao for $$$). Not to be recommended for purchase.
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Dear Jim,
as I read in another thread you are having health problems let me first of all wish you to get well soon!
While most probably we can all understand and sympathize with your disappointment may I ask you why you seem to be ready to accept that another guy like Kosta is removed from training:
Now about Kosta, clearly, you do not know Kosta. John told me way back in 95 that he didn't like Kosta, and in 96 he said he was not going to teach him any more. Why?...because he couldn't trust him.
but when it comes to you this is not acceptable anymore?
If you have been working, like most of us, you might have been fired before.
This happens for various reasons, where "right" or "wrong" very much depends on which side you belong to, but in any case it is always at the discretion of the person who hires you and not to yourself to decide.
He may have his own reasons, which you may find hard to understand as you are not in his shoes, but once you are fired you simply look for another job and let this one go.
Isn't it that simple?
Best
YM
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Master "Kwan Sai Hung" (actually Frank Kai, born in New York) is a fictional character and Deng's book are totally made up, profusely copying existing works.
Also see for instance Poul Andersen, "A Visit to Huashan" in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90):
"It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). "
YM
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Qingcheng Mountain suffered a lot during Sichan earthquake a few years ago, some of the old temples went to rubble
http://cd.qq.com/a/20080606/000137_7.htm
YM
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Transmission (from Encyclopedia of Daoism by F. Pregadio)
The simplest form of transmission in China was pedagogical. A teacher such
as Confucius orally passed on his learning to his pupils who recorded his
wisdom for later posterity. An erudite might also personally present a text
containing his wisdom to a deserving recipient. Another type of transmission
appeared in the “weft texts” (weishu 緯書; see *taoism and the apocrypha)
that were popular during the reign of Wang Mang (r. 9–23). Those texts were
the repositories of myths, and each was associated with one of the Confucian
classics. A “dragon-horse” bearing the eight trigrams (*bagua) of the *Yijing
on its back emerged from the Yellow River to convey them to Fu Xi伏羲 who
copied them. A yellow dragon bearing theChart of the [Yellow] River (Hetu) on
its back crawled out of the river and presented it to *Huangdi. A giant, black
tortoise carrying a talisman in its beak came forth from the water, placed it
on an altar before Huangdi and departed. A numinous turtle with theWrit
of the Luo [River] (Luoshu) imprinted on its cinnabar red shell in azure script
emerged from the Luo River and transmitted it to Cangjie 倉頡, a divinity
known as the inventor of writing. (On these two charts, see the entry *Hetu
andLuoshu.) The trigrams, chart, talismans (*fu), and texts were tokens that
confirmed Heaven’s conferral of the mandate on the ancient sage kings, and
they became essential elements of Taoist rituals and ordinations.
On June 11 of 142, the Most High Lord Lao (Taishang Laojun 太上老君),
i.e., Laozi deified (*Laojun), descended to Mount Heming (*Heming shan,
Sichuan) and bestowed the Dao of the Covenant with the Powers of Orthodox
Unity (zhengyi mengwei 正一盟威) on *Zhang Daoling. This tradition, perhaps
a later fabrication, was another sort of transmission, a personal revelation to
a living human from a deity. What Zhang precisely received on that occasion
is not at all clear since various sources supply different titles. Evidence seems
to indicate that the works of Zhang or other *Tianshi dao leaders included
registers (*lu), talismans, petitions, and codes. Later in the Six Dynasties, the
priesthood, Zhang’s successors, was responsible for inducting juveniles and
young people into the faith. The rites involved transmitting registers.
Scriptural transmission. The *fangshi introduced another form of transmission
involving arcane texts, some of which made their way into the alchemical
tradition of Taoism. *Ge Hong traced their transmission back to *Zuo Ci
(fl. ca. 200) and was one of the recipients of works at an altar (tan 壇) in the
mountains of what is now northeast Jiangxi. There he received from his master
three texts on alchemy under an oath of covenant (meng 盟) as well as secret
oral instructions (koujue 口訣) on their meaning that could not be written
down (see *Taiqing). Originally, a deity (*shenren) had bestowed them on Zuo
who in turn transmitted them to Ge’s uncle, *Ge Xuan, who passed them on
Ge’s master, *Zheng Yin. Ge Hong mentions another form of transmission involving the *
Sanhuang wen (Script of the Three Sovereigns). Immortals hide copies of it in caves
on all of the sacred mountains. When a person qualified to attain the Dao
enters one of the mountains and earnestly meditated, its god will open the
grotto and permit him to view the text. The process, however, was a little
more complicated, as there were two traditions concerning the revelation of
the scripture; but in both cases the text appeared spontaneously on the walls
of grottoes after the persons stared at it or meditated and fasted. When they
were able to discerning the writing, the two left pledges, copied the scriptures
and departed.
Transmission and revelations in the Six Dynasties. The oldest reliable accounts
of divine transmission to humankind date from the second half of the fourth
century. Between 364 and 371, a dozen or so of the Perfected appeared to *Yang
Xi in nocturnal visions to bestow upon him more than ten *Shangqing scriptures
and hagiographies as well as more than forty scrolls of oral instructions. Of
all the Taoist revelations that occurred between 142 and 400, this is the only
one that appears to have been the product of true ecstatic experience because
Yang and his patrons, the Xus 許, kept detailed transcripts of the epiphanies.
The influence of older occult sources is evident in the scriptures; the visions
may have been nothing more than instruments for reshaping earlier writs and
procedures to conform to Yang’s new insights and agenda.
In the fifth century, the *Lingbao order added a new twist to the lore of
transmission. They contended that their scriptures had emerged before creation
as coagulations of *qi (pneuma). After the gods appeared, the Celestial Worthy
of Original Commencement (Yuanshi tianzun 元始天尊; see *sanqing) had
the texts cast on gold tablets and stored in his celestial archives. Thereafter,
he granted lesser deities access to them if they underwent the proper rituals.
Five eons passed before the Celestial Worthy decided it was time transmit
the texts to a mortal. At his behest three of the Perfected descended with a
cortege of carriages, an escort of cavaliers and a retinue of immortal lads and
jade maids in the millions. That host landed on Mount Tiantai (*Tiantai shan,
Zhejiang) where the Perfected bestowed the scriptures, one by one, on Ge
Hong’s uncle who had made himself worthy of receiving them by suffering
through innumerable reincarnations and having compassionately vowed to
strive for the salvation of all mankind.
Transmission and ordination. These traditions, however fanciful, served a purpose.
They established the sanctity of the scriptures as direct gifts from the
gods. They also laid the foundations for mundane transmissions of sacred texts.
Once the texts found their way into human hands it was the responsibility of
the recipients to pass them on to worthy recipients. By the fifth century with
the appearance of the first liturgy for ordinations, compiled by *Lu Xiujing,
the process of transmission became codified (see *Lingbao shoudu yi). Taoist
investitures were the liturgical confirmation of a master’s transmission of texts
to his disciple and were overwhelmingly juridical in nature. There were three
legal formalities required of ordinands. The first were covenants by which they
bound themselves to the gods and promised to venerate the scriptures. The
punishment for violating such pacts was condemnation to the dark prisons
of eternal night in hell. The second were vows. Ordinands gave their word
that they would be temperate, chaste, compassionate, humane, benevolent,
tolerant, and filial. The third were oaths. Ordinands swore never to transmit
the canon indiscriminately, reveal its contents, violate its admonitions, converse
or disparage the scriptures, or bestow the texts for a fee. To guarantee that
they would never breach their word, they had to submit pledges in the form
of gold, cash and textiles.
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Not to nitpick, but Liao Kong was Qianfeng's master; Qianfeng (or 千峰老人) was a name taken by Zhao Bichen... Right? If there is a text circulating written directly by Liao Kong's hand, I would be interested to see it.
Yes, I stand corrected, nice to see somebody with knowledge and wisdom once in a while on this board
YM
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I hear officially you need a degree to obtain a visa, but in practice there are many individuals teaching there without a degree.
Well, if you want to start your spiritual journey and become a "monk" based on a lie with the authorities or overstaying your tourist Visa (this is what many young foreigner do in China) I would personally question your motivations in first place.
Sorry to be straightforward
Best
YM
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1. Yes, as white as they come (stereotypical Anglo-Saxon)
2. Nope
3. Plan on getting a CELTA as soon as I can save enough money
Japan I imagine would be the most difficult to obtain a visa, especially since you need a degree to teach English in Japan (as far as I am aware.)
In China too, according to the law you need a degree to obtain a real Visa
Among all the traditions you are interested in, and they are a lot (too many IMHO), I would say that Tibetan Buddhism has the greater amount of good teachers overseas. Just find one such group near to you and start to get acquainted but don't look too far, just take things easy and walk step by step. You will realize that most of the pre-conceived ideas you have might be totally wrong so, on the way, you will make HUGE adjustments to your plans
Best
YM
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I've long had an interest in Chinese culture and have had desires to teach English abroad, particularly in China. I figured I would use the visa from teaching English as a first step into China and go from there, seeing what I could find.Are you white?
Do you have a degree?
Do you have a TEFL?
YM
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So, what is this 'real transmission' exactly? Is it a specific knowledge? A state of being? A 'realization'?True Transmission is the establishment of a connection, just like when connecting wires to allow for electricity to flow
YM
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what is the difference between technique and transmission, and how does transmission occur?
Thanks
"True transmission" only occurs when one is accepted as disciple in a certain school, which means he is "introduced" to the line of transmission of the ancestors from that specific school. Without this connection one can only go so far in his path, which will be one of "techniques" that may increase his skills/qualities similarly to any other training but nothing more than that.
Transmission usually takes the form of an acceptance/introduction rite, different schools do that differently but the meaning is the same. It is very much like enrolling at a certain university: there are specific requirements and only if you get accepted and follow their curriculum you have the chance of learning with their teachers and getting their degree.
YM
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while I cannot say that I am 100% certain I am going to become a Taoist monk in China, that is what I am primarily interested in learning more about from anyone who knows more about this subject.Leaving aside all "spiritual" considerations for a moment I would like to remind you that to live in a country (like China) you need a Visa, and since there is no "monk visa" that I know I guess you have to find a solution to that first of all
YM
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Building the foundation and Inner Alchemy
in Daoist Discussion
Posted
Reasonability of a price always depends on what one receives in return vis-a-vis his expectations, so some people will tell you what they receive is priceless and therefore the cost is extremely cheap.
Everyone has a different standard.
Anyway, I am afraid to tell you that a 5 star hotel in a main city in China is now in the range of 1-2,000/day AT LEAST and that if you ask some of the (millions) who are managing quite well nowadays they will tell you 22,000 RMB is nothing. An average/decent office job in a city is now about that much, people who search the garbage to collect carton and other recyclable material and run around the city like coolies make an average of 15-20,000 RMB/mo.
Things have changed quite fast in China in the last few years ...
YM