David W

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  1. It’s been a tremendous blessing to read some of the incredibly deep and rich classic texts that left me truly inspired. I’ve regularly been significantly impressed with the depth of Daoist texts over the years. 1.) What are some favorite texts or group of advanced texts? 2.) What language should be studied to access this source material? 3.) Are there any recommended resources to learn the language within the spiritual context?
  2. I think we are missing each other a bit — I would agree spirit is our transcendent divine self, probably even related to our connection to the source. As I understand it, the inner alchemical body, or the inner immortal child (golden fetus as an example) is lower on the hierarchical chain of being then the spirit. I would suggest however that while the alchemist works in various realms simultaneously, he can become conscious of his spirit or even source consciousness, but the main objective of much of his developmental work is to develop a subtle energetic vessel which is designed to host the spirit in the next life. The modern era has a plentitude of different methods on how to develop this inner energetic vehicle or immortal child body. For example there are observable differences between the descriptions of the diamond, rainbow, or shining bodies of different schools. As such I am asking, and I think reasonably so, what identifiable variances could there be in how the inner energetic body is developed across the different lineages?
  3. Hi, personally I was referring to what you would identify as spirit, then. There are a variety of practices I’ve heard about but for example I think we’re all familiar with the meditation process overviewed in the Secret of the Golden Flower. I specifically mean the energetic vehicle which is meant to carry your consciousness after death. Do you think that that has changed, even slightly, in the last couple thousand years? And if it has, what do you think has changed about modern practice?
  4. I totally agree that what is intended here is that it is the “development” plan that has altered over the years. This is only natural to take place with the rising and falling of cultural and religious based dynasties. My suggestion is that it isn’t that hard to believe that the earliest daoist inner practice differs from the common modern practice. As such, I’m asking critically, what specific changes could have potentially taken place and how does that relate to the development of various lineages. Hi Liminal! I didn’t mean to suggest that the potential of the innate human subtle anatomy has fundamentally changed to the point of having a different idealistic blueprint from older times, only that modern practices could differ a little from the ancients, and thus potentially carry over that difference into the modern energy bodies being created. What exactly could have been altered over time, and how significant could it have been are other questions for me. At the moment I’m mostly interested with identifying how different lineages develop the energy body differently in today’s practices. Lol, thanks! Hi, actually I have found that to be a really interesting concept. I’ve read about a variety of middle eastern forms of inner mysticism (sufis also have trainings like this) that focus on dismantling the thought forms within before beginning to ‘work the ground of the heart’ and developing the inner chambers or inner mansions. I wanted to ask you, what specific layer of the energetic anatomy is the aspect of ourselves which is formless, nameless, and uncontainable in any shape?
  5. Hi again — agreed. These allegories I think are helpful as a general conceptual framework, but would be particularly interested in learning the details about how the different energy bodies specifically relate to different realms and deities of various Daoist lineages.
  6. Fascinatingly, there are some people who think these are merely ‘deific masks’ and that its simply our local and cultural programming that causes us to experience transcendent things through abstract religious god forms. I do not think any of the ancients viewed the spirit realm this way. I think there are very demonstrable examples of individualized conscious beings involved with the spiritual development of humanity, and I want to understand how lineage differences in Daoism (maybe north vs south) reflect the different trajectories of the energy bodies of practitioners.
  7. Cleansox, haha I have no idea if it’s a pinnacle of tradition or some unknown deep teaching. That’s why I am asking these very pointed questions honestly...if you have a three part online subscription course please sign me up! Jokes aside, I think I would have to say, yes, if those immortals are considered external individualized spiritual intelligences then they would perform the same role as a god in any hypothetical pantheon. That makes little difference imho, and I personally have no problem interacting with whatever if that’s the process. In fact, the case I’m making is that I suspect there are differences between various lineages. This becomes interesting when you consider how these beings relate to different stars. Since I feel the stars provide objectively different energies, if you work with an ‘immortal’ or any spirit related to a given stellar energetic quality, your internal body will likely be impacted by those qualities. I'm asking what the fundamental differences are within the energy bodies of different lineages if the ‘beings’ they work with differ as well. With that said it almost seems that the burden of proof should fall on those who say the energy body is the same, when so much of the practice and beliefs are different.
  8. I think the ancients certainly believed their inner energy practices uniquely reflected the gods they were in relationship with. They no doubt believed they would join them in the afterlife. They believed in specific names and detailed locations of mythical lands, it certainly was not the universal syncretistic abstract systems we see where modern practitioners say it’s all the same..... My theory is that these differences are present and fundamentally come down to different pantheons, and thus their inner energetic workings can be different as well. It’s one thing to say that all of the 10,000 things come back into unity eventually, but regardless I seriously doubt the afterlife is exactly the same for each practitioner and that the energy body they’ve developed is exactly the same. If someone could explain what these specific differences are, I would gain understanding regarding the different paths towards the afterlife and the more precise goal for birthing the inner body.
  9. Thank you Master Logray. Can I ask you then why certain lineages base the attainment of perfection through encountering ‘cosmic’ entities within the internal grottos? Are these just abstractions or objectively external consciousnesses? I have heard many a teacher relate that there are no spirits involved only to discover later on that they are very much part of the whole process. I would certainly be interested in learning more about a system that works to purely develop the innate human energies however. Specifically, are you saying the pinnacle of development within Neidan is accomplished without the contact of any beings from the Daoist pantheon?
  10. RiverSnake most appreciated. I’ve looked at the process in the Bardo, Tibetan book of the dead, and the Egyptian book of coming forth by day, amongst various texts. Not only do I agree it should be something worth studying, I feel strongly that getting a clear idea on the development to begin aligning ourselves now, for then, is most prudent. Regarding developing maps, maybe even a circulatory inner grotto journey mirroring this process, would be super fascinating to me. If you could suggest maybe a lineage or practice that specifically focuses on this issue of developing the inner body to best navigate this transition, I would be exceedingly grateful!
  11. Well, I'd say all those categories are verifiably true for me, but thank you. Are you saying you need me to answer this because you fundamentally do not think that there are differences in the subtle bodies of different practices? Could I ask you to pls answer with what information you have on this topic specifically, rather than going any further into the checklist idea.
  12. Great responses! I do not think the subtle body is a result of aligning with the stars alone. That would be very basic, such as the mistake history channel 'egyptologists' make by trying to superimpose Orion's belt onto Giza. But no, I feel the energy from the stars are utilized, whether purely symbolically, or through some ritualistic means of connecting with the higher dimensional energetic current they represent, to cultivate specific energies within the soul in order to development an inner body used after death. My suggestion is this: when someone is working with these specific energies on their internal energetic body throughout life, will their practices have objectively different influences on their energy body, compared to those whom develop a different internal energy body using different stars. Really... that is my question... I am quite sure they do differ at the higher levels, but am here to learn why and how (=
  13. Hi -- very much agreed. I am mostly curious about the specific differences of the various paths and how they result in different higher bodies and the realms they are connected to!
  14. Hi Bindi -- before I comment on how I do not fundamentally agree that all people have an entirely identical subtle energy body, I wanted to mention something relating to the bioenergetics of the physical bodies vs. internal spiritual bodies created through inner alchemy. I think we would all agree their is an objective system of 'channels' and energy centers of the nodes and organs. Practitioners are generally informed of this early on...to be eventually shown how they are to use a developmental system to build an internal energetic body they will utilize in the after life. Regardless of the energetic principles constant for physical bodies, I am primarily concerned with the differences of energetic vessels created within, for the soul. These later vessels seem to be much more targeted, for example at a specific god, heaven, or other realm. As such I am wondering how differences in modern internal alchemy practices could result in a different spiritual locale for the practitioners once the internal energy body is birthed.
  15. Hi RiverSnake! Thanks for commenting. At the moment I seem to be persuaded, in agreement with what you mentioned above, that different systems do in fact work with objectively different energies. There are some who think however that this difference in methodology for cultivating energy results in the same destination, and while I think this has some evidence to be the case in the very distant long term, within the foreseeable future I wonder how the afterlife differs amongst practitioners who utilize different energies. Understanding the specific trajectory of the soul after this lifetime seems to be my primary interest. Any thoughts on how the differences in these systems might result in a different spiritual locale for the energetic body being built?