Shadao

6 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I get this a lot with acupuncture patients also for some reason. They might have had back pain for 20 years, eaten horribly that entire time, and not exercised at all and they expect one acupuncture session take care all their problems in two minutes. I always wondered where this totally unrealistic expectation comes from.

I would take a guess that it comes from people's desire to have "the one thing" that will solve all their problems, not unlike how religious people await for a "savior" that will be "the one" to help them instead of them helping themselves.

Another question(that might not have much to do with my original one, but then again this entire talk has been shifting into other subjects as well):

Is it advisable to not work with/on more than one energy system/method/routine/etc?

Or is it ok to, for example, pick two that attracted you the most and do/use them?

I ask because I do not want to end up putting myself in danger or just wasting time by, say, using opposite systems.

4 hours ago, freeform said:

(...)

Shengren - or becoming a Sage on the other hand is highly prized. This is when your 'True Self' becomes the driver of all your actions. This is 'true virtue' - this is acting without acting... or true spontaneity. So in essence you've gone beyond recognising your True Nature - to making your True Nature the 'cause' for all action or non-action.

 

Shengren is considered the highest form of 'self-development' - though it's not considered the highest form of spiritual development...

 

Zhenren is the attainment closest to what we'd call enlightenment in the west. A Zhenren goes beyond Shengren into 'spiritual development' (as in actually developing your Original Spirit). They develop this Original Spirit through every layer of reality - including the physical, manifest reality... so in essence the very structure of the physical body is fully transformed into that of light.

 

Then there are the Xian - who have developed the spirit beyond that of Zhenren...

 

Normally a genuine Daoist teacher would laugh away this sort of conversation - and have you stand in a very uncomfortable position...

 

Because it's like discussing the intricacies of tax-efficient investment of your billions - when all you have is debt to your name. 'First clear your debt, then we'll talk more' - is the general attitude (simply because most people prefer talk rather than train).

Wow, as a beginner I found this very interesting to read.

I know there is still much to learn and alot to "walk", but I hope to one day be able to reach a level where I can, at least, understand better these kind of talks.

Just now, XianGong said:

 

Immortality

Physical, spiritual or both?

Because I see talks of both.

Just now, XianGong said:

Asking advice and guidance on the forum is not the best thing to go, i.e. better to find a qualified teacher in those arts that you think are suitable for you. The paths are many.

That question(the one you quoted) wasn't about asking advice or guidance, just pure curiosity.

Just now, dmattwads said:

 

I'm sure I'll have someone argue this but in my opinion seeking enlightenment and power are contradictory. Powers my come as a side effect of seeking enlightenment but are not at all the goal.

Does it mean that "seeking powers" is wrong?

Just now, RiverSnake said:

This is how many methods there are......

 

Ah, I guess this one is on me.

Maybe I didn't ask properly(possible due to both the difficulty that it is to express certain concepts and thoughts into words, as well as that english isn't my native language).

Just now, dmattwads said:

 

So as you said there are healing methods and I think the definition of this is pretty obvious.

 

Martial methods on the surface level are to help one perform their martial arts better in fighting and such.

 

Enlightenment is a bit of a loaded term depending on which tradition you are referring to, but in general it is to free oneself from desires so that one is liberated from the cycle of rebirth within Samsara.

 

Another common practice motive is to gain powers. (which I am not a big fan of to be honest)

 

Yes, this kind of definitions are what I was asking about.

I have seen that usually people will mention 4 or 5 types of methods(or would it be better to say cathegories?) in this forum as the "main reason/main concept/main objective" of the methods they are speaking about.

Just a question though...don't people that seek "enlightment" also tend to be the ones to "seek power"?I'm just curious about it because many tend to associate both things into one single objective.Something like "enlightment brings power and power brings enlightment".

While searching around the forum, I have noticed that this tends to repeat.Whenever people talk about methods they usually specify: healing, martial, spiritual/enlightment and etc.(I forgot the name of some).

What are all the labels/types of methods?And I mean the known types or the most seen ones.

What is the difference or main aim of each type of method?(i.e. I would get that "healing" is about learning how to heal oneself, no?But what about the rest?).

1 hour ago, Lha Bho said:

I'll propose a 3rd to your Original Question. Diet. Now I don't eat some crazy diet, some do, and I wish to sooner than later. But! I do make sure to drink very clean Water from an Artesian Well. I drink about a gallon a day. 

No well nearby but I try to drink 3~4 liters per day.

I also have been doing intermittent fasting since last year's January and already lost almost 10kg.

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

1. To get stronger go to the gym and work out.

2. To learn more, read.

 

3. To figure out who you are....... that's a doozy there. Better to ask what you are. This can take life times.

1.I cannot afford a gym, and honestly knowing what is going on(the pandemy), I do not think it would be safe to go to one.People here just do not seem to respect the distance and the use of masks.

2.Already doing it.Aside trying to learn a new language I am trying to read two books at once(one about something I like and one about something I think I need to know).

3.If I can end the year knowing even  just a bit more about myself, I will already call it a success.Because all I know is very superficial knowledge.

5 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

 

Ofcourse. 

 

The list of styles that Lerner just gave you all have different energetics. Sifting through those and seeing what resonates may be a good place to start. You will find many other styles on the forum. 

 

Here are a few more: Spring Forest Qigong, Strategic Sorcery (Magick course for crazy occultists...:p), Way of Energy, Hoshin Budo (martial/spiritual), and Tai Chi.  

Much appreciated.

5 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

Great, now we can narrow it down ever further. Are there any archetypes that you've found a strong affinity for from movies or popular culture. This is usually a clue as well as to where your strongest affinity lies. When it comes to loner archetypes: Odin, Shiva, Miyamoto Musashi....etc.

When you mention "archetypes" from movies and popular culture(also, can in this cathegory be included game characters or book characters?) you mean in general or with focus on loners?

8 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

In Taoist cultivation sometimes there is an emphasis on Fire vs Water systems of cultivation. Fire methods represent rapid and explosive methods which provide quick results. Water emphasizes a deep saturation of the system and the gradual build up of energy to do deep and intense cleansing and smoothing of the system (rock in a stream).

I don't know if this might say something about what method is best for me, but my personality would be akin to fire.Unless you add more wood or gas to it, it will stay low or "chill", controlable.Otherwise, it will become a roaring blaze.

On the other hand I tend to always feel calm, or even "healed" whenever I am submerged under water or have it fall in my head.

13 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

Take notes on anything that effects you strongly...like a deep intuitive pull.

Yes, I will start to pay active attention from now on.It is interesting to think back on some moments and only now realize how they affected me or how some of them seemed to have similar "themes" or situations.

4 minutes ago, thelerner said:

KAP system(google it, online classes), Stillness Movement system(founder was an old member here), Flying Phoenix (comprehensive system, long thread here), Damo Mitchell (free online class)Max Christensons Kunlun, Michael Winns various Chi gung videos and CDs, 

Much appreciated.

12 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

To give an example of "spheres" that we all have some experience with....in the high school lunch room....there are different "clicks" or "types" of people whom gravitate towards one another and "hang out". Nerds, Cheerleaders, Jocks, Emos, Thugs, Loners....etc. These all represent different styles of energy. What spheres of society have you found yourself in over time? This will give clues on what path is suited to your nature. 

 

Usually the loner(by choice as I am an introvert and prefer to have my personal space with just myself most of the times) with few, but true, friends.Very artistic, somehow able to make friends(or at least acquaintances) with all kinds of people(but I seem to interact better with people that aren't wealthy or rich).The weird ones(in a playful sense), the odd ones(with interesting quirks or traits), with interests in Asian cultures.

Most of all, people that respect my choices and opinions same as I do to them.People that listen.

Oh, and the eclectic ones, the ones that tend to be more than just one thing or like/do more than just one thing from a certain subject and such.

3 hours ago, RiverSnake said:

 

Enlightenment is a bit of a joke IMO....though still a worthy goal. The techniques you would apply to achieve enlightenment is very different from those you would to become a healer or an internal martial artist. There's no single route. 

 

Deciding your goals be it vague or specific is helpful in order to orient oneself in seeking. Each individual has there own nature...it's important to look inward and know thyself. 

Well I can say that my three main goals right now are:

-Getting stronger(in all kinds of senses, but with a bit more emphasis on the physical part)

-Improving myself(both through learning new things as well as becoming a better version of my current self)

-Figuring out who I am and what I want.

Nothing too fancy, nothing too "spiritual" or too grand(i.e. I'm not looking for enlightment nor to find the answers of life or spread peace and love, I just want to get better and find myself while doing that).

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

Again, good questions and a dilemma we all face/d.  What is good, what is out there.. there's no guide or list as far as I know.  Its very subjective.  One person guru is another's fraud.  One persons system of enlightenment is another's load of extraneous cultural baggage.  

 

So, you start where you can.  Learn a bit.  Meet people, get their subjective, limited opinion and fate steers you where it will.  In truth Taoism is pretty small.  It's not like there are temples w/ 'real' Taoists near by.  So most people shoot for 'cultivation' with a Taoist influence.  Thus don't dismiss a nearby Tai Chi, Yoga or internal martial arts place thats nearby.  

 

Where you start is not where you'll end.  But starting is important and there can be gems in unlikely places.  

Eh I meant the names of the routines so I can search for them and see if I agree with them(and them with me) or not.

I'm not asking for judgement if they're good or not, just their names.

4 hours ago, thelerner said:

Good question.  You kinda want things to do double duty.  I'd say night time meditation routine.  Clear your mind and you'll sleep better and deeper.  Doesn't have to be long 15 or 20 minutes.  Learning deep relaxation and clearing your mind.  Once you have that down you can begin some of the energy based meditations.  

 

Look around at some qigong routines.  Preferably short easy ones.  Like 8 Brocades or one of my favorites Pan Gu which is short and simple, Michael Winn has a good youtube version of it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZVdt8t2WQ) look around for something connects to you.  

 

Learn the philosophy, you can start w/ Dao De Jing, then peruse works of Thomas Cleary, like 'Practical Taoism'.  Or find a good Podcast, they're free.   There one called Cup of Tao, has lots of subjects and most of them are about 10 minutes long.  Good way to learn about Taoist philosophy.  My favorite podcast is Infinitesmile, which is more Zen, but quite good. 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know if there is a list(or something similar) of sorts stating all(or most) of known qigong routines?

Because as I have no idea of what is out there(or here) I am unable to pick something that "connects to me".

Also, thanks for the options.I'll be sure to check on them later on the day.

3 hours ago, RiverSnake said:

What are your goals? 

In what sense?

In general?In my "Journey to Dao"?For the far future?For right now?

Maybe it's because I am both a new member and someone new to Daoism/Taoism in general, but I do have a single question.

Considering that I am currently busy with university, I have to be very careful when setting time aside for anything else, and this year I want to be the year of my most drastic changes(with an ardent desire for them all to be good ones) in all aspects of my life.

So, based on your experiences and knowledge, on which should I focus first(or focus the most)?

Developing my body(i.e. working out) or developing my energy system/Qi/stillgettingusedtotheseterminologieshere?

Already read it.

Where should I start?

I always find it hard to introduce myself, because I myself still don't know enough of "me" to be able to make a concise introduction...

Well let me start by saying that my interest in Daoism/Taoism started because a few years ago I started to read novels about cultivation...yes, it were those works of fiction that got me intrigued but I'll admit that back then it wasn't enough intrigue to make me want to search more about it.

Fast forward to, what?Two or three years ago?

I found a website where there were many pdfs of books there, and yes among them there was a section about Taoism too.I got curious, I decided to check it and see some of those books.I won't lie saying that I finished reading any of the books I picked to "check", but it did made me question things, and due to that I decided to learn more(and hopefully start to actively practice) about Daoism/Taoism...and yeah i also like the subject of Alchemy(in general) and learning that there was such a thing like Neigong really caught my Western mind's attention.I love the idea of being able to change something into another(even better), the idea that a person can be like a metal ingot(useless in it's raw state but able to become something with purpose, identity, meaning and utility) that can be forged into something better.

I'm still lost in the practical side of it though, because what I tend to see are teachings peppered with New Age stuff, fake or repuposed to fit other things(i.e. Yoga, Reiki, etc.).

I guess for a general introduction about "Daoism/Taoism and Me" this sums it all.

Now just some trivia that won't reveal much about myself, but might be fun to know:

-Based on my personality I tend to feel more affinity to the elements of Fire, Lightning and Metal, but for some reason I feel at peace when underwater or feeling the wind.

-Not a "nature person" but due to an enhanced sense of smell and hearing I tend to not like completely urban environments.A mix of both is most prefered.

-Never drank nor smoked, and don't intend to.Not a fan of red meat, mostly fish and chicken(otherwise eggs and veggies).

-I want to learn many languages, even if it's hard to actually learn them.

-I think I can feel my "Qi" very well in my arms and hands, but not so much from the chest down.