mlinssen

Whatever you believe in becomes True to you

In the 114 + 1 logia, IS appears in logia 0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 61, 62, 63, 64, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 73, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 92, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 100, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 114 IHS only appears in logion 13, 22 and 90 The H is the Coptic / Greek Eta, a short E so to say, as in "wet". Take the writing, and IS dominates. Like the Spanish can't pronounce a starting S without producing a vowel in front of it, perhaps Indians suffix a vowel to it? IS is in all the texts, it took many centuries before they turned that into IhsouS If interested you can Google for nomina sacra, but that is all fiction. No one knows how and when those came into existence and there certainly is no early text whatsoever that says Ihsous or anything the like, so IS clearly isn't an abbreviation

This one is essential, although most are. The essence is in the sheep being great, like the fish; the adjective appears in logia 8, 12, 20, 29, 96, 107, linking them all But the trick is that the shepherd "seeks-after" the sheep, a verb that occurs in logia 18, 24, 38, 60, 76, 92, 107. It has a connotation of paying attention to, and it is different from seeking in the sense that it comes as a bit of an afterthought - I don't know how to really express it but it is similar to chasing perhaps But we all should go astray like the sheep, of course. Ignore the flock that just follows the rules they were programed with. The sheep most certainly isn't lost! It is exactly the other way around, and the shepherd follows suit: "have make-be he to-toil", and once again Thomas is perfectly ambiguous about the 'he' there. But toiling is the essence to seeking, although finding is not what the shepherd does: he seeks after and then falls to, two very different verbs and actions It is a truly beautiful logion, it seems so straightforward but it isn't. Of course LOL

That is fantastic! The text is very interesting: the verb used is the second (1. is intransitive, 2. is transitive) ⲡⲱⲱⲛⲉ (ⲉ-) – be changed to, turn toward turn to, transfer ⲡⲱⲱⲛⲉ (ⲉⲃⲟⲗ) – move out, go forth carry out, remove The preposition is slightly different, but there is a strong undertone of change, of turning. My translation says "turn outward" in order to preserve that. It's funny enough to have a mountain move, but to turn? Thomas jokes again here: mountain is ⲧⲟⲟⲩ, and that also is a verb: to buy. And we know what Thomas thinks of buyers (logion 64). A similar noun is ϯⲟⲩ, the Coptic word for 5...

What if... Thomas came before any and all of Christianity? What if Thomas is just deep prose, poetry, a riddling at of instructions about non duality, about everything being One, about the mental models you created: your house, your World? What if his text is a magnificent masterpiece where most logia have a second translation, a less obvious one, with a deeper meaning that actually makes sense? The Parable of the Strong Man is one such: 35 said IS there-is-not strength of one go-inward to the house of the strong and he take him within forearm Unless he binds his hands Then he will move-out of his house "Forearm" is even the primary translation there, the usual "force" is the secondary definition of ϫⲛⲁϩ, https://coptic-dictionary.org/entry.cgi?tla=C7271 Taking someone by the forearm is a metaphor for "helping"...

Well put. Thomas wrote his text exactly because of that. He knows that there is no stopping people from seeking, but he directs the way of seeking, in telling that there is "No Great Fish" (logion 8) He tells of the two you's, and the real you, the "father". Making the two one is "nothing more" than realising that there are two, that you are two: slaveowner and slave at the same time And you make the one by realisation, not knowing, but Realising that. Then they go up in smoke and the One that remains, that appears - that is You

A very common translation, but alas not a correct one 4 said IS he will delay not viz. the human old-person in his days to make-cease a little child small he in seven day because-of the Place of the life and he will live : there-be many first will make-be last and they come-to-be one alone Now that makes sense, doesn't it? Quickly, stop the child from growing up! and he will live indeed, free from splitting, free from becoming separated, dualised Feel free to verify my translation, as long as you can click you can do so: https://www.academia.edu/42110001/Interactive_Coptic_English_Thomas_translation_v1_7_5_with_complete_double_reverse_index_and_concordance It is a word by word translation from the Coptic, hyperlinked into the KELLIA Coptic Dictionary Online. It has a double index, and a double concordance - hyperlinking back into each logion If you want to study Thomas, it has never been easier, nor more direct, and pure I'm working my way through all logia for my Commentary, and I find strong evidence for Tao-like ideas - but I'm unsure whether separation at an early age is one of them

Exactly. It is similar to logion 87 87 said he viz. IS : a Miserable is the Body which is-hung of a Body and a Miserable is the Soul which is-hung of these both-together And that again is similar to logion 29 29 said IS if have the Flesh come-to-be because-of Spirit a wonder is (the flesh) if Spirit However because-of the Body a wonder of wonder is (the body) Rather myself come marvel-at of this : How/Why? did this great reign-of rich-man did she dwell in this reign-of poor On reincarnation, is logion 29, and all are on duality. Why split yourself in body, soul, flesh, whatever - what is the use of that? What is the purpose, where is the goal? Do you think you existed as spirit and now have become flesh? Or were you once a body but now a spirit, waiting on a new flesh? Is it typical of the Tao, to (not) believe in reincarnation?

I agree to that, and that's why I joined this forum Perhaps it is informative to know that the protagonist of Thomas is called "IS", not Jesus. There is a whole scheme on so-called nomina sacra of which this allegedly would be one, but no one can explain how they came into being, and while most claim that they are abbreviations, the oldest texts that we have all say IS or IHS (the Greek eta), so if what is that an abbreviation? That, on a side note Thomas talks about the Kosmos, ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ in Coptic, which gets translated as World. It is one of 500 Greek loanwords in his text, and all have a deeper metaphysical meaning. He juxtaposes plain Coptic words to their Greek "siblings" in order to point out their differences The World in Thomas stands for our image of the world, as each has his or her own. It is folly to chase that world, to feed it, to keep it alive - by paying attention to it and taking it seriously What Taoist concepts would be similar there?

Whenever (3 occasions there) Thomas speaks of the Kingdom in combination with Heaven, he always speaks of "the kingdom of the heavens". Guillaumont knew that, his Coptic was more than good enough - yet he chose to hide that truth, like most others have done since. But login 114 is a deep and fun one, and the real fun part is that Mariham gets the prize... 114 said Simon Peter behold : let! ⲙⲁⲣ.ⲓ.ϩⲁⲙ come outward of our heart/mind: the women worth not of the life. said IS : lo-behold myself I will draw her in-order-that I will make-be her male So-that she will come-to-be likewise she of a Spirit, he living, he resemble you males : every woman she will make-be her male she will go-inward to the reign-of king of the heavens A literal translation. Greek loanwords are capitalised. I still haven't come around a thorough investigation of this logion, and suspect wordplay in the last phrase

Thank you Ilu! What do you mean with "unknowable father"? I don't find those two words in Thomas I'm not very much into the standard views on Thomas, I find most of them lacking motivation and arguments - Thomas really is an odd one out when you look in the big basket of Gnosticism (in which I can't find him either, btw) I've familiarised myself with the rules, thanks. Always a good habit And thanks for the threads, I'll have a look! Cheers, Martin

Hi My name is Martijn (Martin) Linssen and I am looking for the underlying Tao concepts that support the essence of the so-called gospel of Thomas (Thomas) - which certainly isn't a gospel, nor is it about Jesus The five trees that don't move summer nor winter and "not usually fall outward": the five senses The slaveowner and the slave - the two you's that keep themselves so busy that the You, what Thomas calls the father, goes unnoticed You will not find the latter in the usual translations, I have made my own, and picked the more precise word definitions, and to many logia there is a secondary, underlying translation Thomas offers "Protection from birds of the heaven", ⲥⲕⲉⲡⲏ ⲛ̄ ϩⲁⲗⲁⲧⲉ ⲛ̄ ⲧ ⲡⲉ, and he shows the observing reader that there is No Great Fish - I believe all this to be part of the Tao but I really wouldn't know for sure, so I'm here to see how much of it does, in which ways. Thanks