stirling

I agree, the DDJ is a prime example of just how simple transformation can be. I am surprised by how many have managed to complicate it, add different cultivations and aspirations to such a clean and simple document. You know when you encounter the real deal when even different translations cannot damage the stainless quality of the dharma contained within. _/\_

Won't bother with simply resting the Dao/Nature of Mind/Emptiness/Brahman. Won't bother with dropping practices and just allowing the mind to become still and seeing how things are from that perspective. Why would it? Why would the thinking mind feel like turning itself off for a while might be a valid way forward? It is convinced that it is a "self" and that the thought process is how problems are solved. How could just being possibly be the key? Surely it is more of an intellectual pursuit? Of course it depends on what you think you want to achieve. What I am pointing at is the cessation of the struggle/suffering of the "self" and complete alignment with the Dao, OR enlightenment, from the Buddhist/Hindu/Sufi/Advaita Vedanta perspective. What DO you want to achieve? A lot of thinking there. I get it, I really do, but none of that happens in the way you imagine it. You are speculating, finding reason why it wouldn't suit you. It doesn't have to. It comes back to that question again - what do you want to achieve? I find most of those that get anywhere are seeking to either end their suffering OR understand how reality really is. Depends, again on what you want to accomplish. If you meditation is just resting in stillness, and you get what it is you are trying to do, experience will lead you to resting for periods of time in what IS "enlightened mind". From there it is simply learning to recognize it. All of those other pursuits are also valuable, though I would add that seeking insight into your attachment and aversion is key.... and another place where meditation is invaluable. The thinking mind does not want to meditate, as I imagine you have noticed. It takes a few weeks to a month of practice to get to the point where the thinking mind is exhausted and stillness really begins to appear. 20 minutes a day will do it. How long ever day do we look at the internet? YOU can't turn off the chatter, no. You CAN allow the mind to exhaust itself and become still by not feeding it. Anyone that cares can do it. Every student I have ever had finds they can... if they WANT to. Not at all. I appreciate your willingness to engage and question. As far as "correction" is concerned, practice is the thing that creates insight into these things. As I said, most won't even take a month or two of sitting for 20 minutes a day to find out what is possible, or if the training is transformative.

It's actually very simple. Perhaps the clearest instruction I have ever read is the Tsin Tsin Ming: https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#3 The short version: Dismantle your belief in your "self" as a separate being that exists in time and space. If you stop feeding the delusion of "self" you can glimpse the underlying reality. How do you stop feeding your delusion? Seek stillness. Meditation, where the mind is still and quiet, is the simplest place to start. Having the stillness pointed out for you is sometimes expedient. It requires no money, beliefs, or reading, really. You probably won't bother. Almost no-one does. It isn't complicated or sexy enough for most.

The brain is like any other labeled phenomena - an "icon" for a set of ideas and observations. "Coming to center" is really just dropping all of our preconceptions about how things are. "Center" is always available, right here, right now. Reality is: What is happening now, viewed from the mind in stillness, and therefore without any of our conceptual overlay or personal projection.

I don't disagree with you, but I think it has utility where the discussion of what is "real" is concerned.. in the context of the discussion. I tend to use this talk as "skillful means" to get people to at least question that what they see is a "real" world. It isn't. Brain? It has nothing to do with the perception of reality or lack thereof - the materialists came up with this idea in the 40's or 50's that the brain was the source of all thought, and reality, but none of those propositions has ever been proven... only CORRELATIONS have been made, which is absolutely not the same. The brain has as much of a reality as a separate thing with intrinsic existence as anything... none. Our intention colors what happens, yes, but... surprise, not only is what happens in the outside world something that arises in this moment, and lacking "self", but so are our intentions. The arise in the unity/emptiness/Dao as part of the whole. We aren't masters of reality, but rather the unity itself... but also lacking the ability to direct what happens due to our lack of "self". Concepts are pernicious and subtle. Materialism is one of the more obviously pernicious flavors. How are things really? It is all presented clearly here:

Anil Seth fits nicely in right here:

Not at all, my friend! I am saying that belief in something from the past can't compete with permanent-always-happening-now insight. What I am saying is that there are "spiritual experiences" (meeting gods/past lives/akashic records/etc.) which all of us on this board can probably remember, but not experience now. Once an experience has been had it exists only in the past. If we decide these remembered experiences were "real" it is only as a belief... a story. I can remember many strange and interesting experiences, but they aren't happening here and now, and will never happen the same exact way again, if at all. Even if I DID have Jesus show up in this moment (he isn't here presently, however) I could still see that "he" was a much a part of the fabric of "emptiness" as anything else in the room he appeared in. Insight into the Dao/Emptiness/Unity/Brahman, in short, "Enlightenment" is ALWAYS visible once seen completely. It is permanent, and is the one salient characteristic of ALL phenomena, including would-be gods and akashic records. It upends the model for how the world is seen by revealing a fundamental flaw in the story we have always told ourselves about things. Once it has been seen, the story of our model of reality is shattered. The reality of the existence of an individual person (a "self"), of time, of space, and even of any two things that exist to react together is broken. The phenomena of the world, the people, trees, cars, everything else still is present, but known to be a play of impermanence happening, but transforming moment to moment, light and color - all of it with a complete lack of any intrinsic existence of its own.

_/\_

Yeah... really "heavy handed censorship"? Do you even realize how many chances we Mods here have given you because we all kinda enjoy your crusty grumpiness? The way that you repay us is to keep pushing the edge and creating more unnecessary work for us. You are out of chances. Next time it's points and a time out as far as I am concerned. There is nothing in the board rules that supports violating them because your "truth" is more important than they are. This is not a platform for free speech.

Some of the posts on this thread are pretty thinly veiled references. If it continues we'll be locking this thread. Deep thanks to those of you who are refraining. - Mods

Welcome to the board!

Enlightened activity gnows itself. That "tacit understanding" belongs to no-one.

Hope you don't mind - I split this question from the thread you posted in. There is a lot of dark, angry baggage there that would probably detract from your question. _/\_

Welcome to the board. I’d be interested to hear about the world view that comes with the magical systems you have worked in.

Welcome to the board!

Ah.... not so concerned with my teachings so much as actual experience in this moment. I had the pleasure of living in London for a while and getting to go to the Theosophical Society for lectures and other things, as well as Sogyal Rinpoche's Rigpa organization. Definitely the Theosophists borrowed from myriad sources. I actually LOVED their whole gestalt, but didn't end up working in that system much... it felt like a kludge to me. Thanks for bringing them up.

… and he speaks with great clarity about something he is intimately familiar with, that just happens to be true. 🙂

I just love that chap.

I wouldn't accuse your friend of lying. He might have had an experience of that which he remembers vividly. I can remember my 18th birthday party, but it is ONLY a memory, not something I can see or experience now. This is the problem. As much as I love the idea, an Akashic records vault full of stories about he past and future violates everything that insight into emptiness/dao/Buddha nature clearly demonstrates about reality in this moment. Speaking solely for myself, I would only believe it if I saw it but it would have to violate everything I know about the ultimate qualities of reality, AND it would have to be something that was always available in this moment. It is instructive, by way of an example, to look at what some enlightened teachers say about their ultimate conclusions on past lives. This example comes most easily to mind, but my teacher and others I have chatted to about this topic say essentially the same thing: Experiences of past lives DO happen - but that doesn't mean they have any deeper reality than something you dream, or even something you did yesterday. Can you see your past life, or experience of the Akashic records in this moment? This is what matters. This is the litmus test for what is "real". Anything you are not experiencing in this this moment, where you are, is a story you are telling yourself. This is obvious where there is non-dual/unity understanding. Insight into the non-dual nature of reality is omnipresent - part of this moment of experiencing forever.

Nungali is right, this is a psychological problem, NOT a spiritual attainment of any kind. What you are saying does not go with any spiritual tradition any of us have heard of and there is a LOT of expertise here. There is no better idea about what to do, or better option than to seek medical and psychological aid. Please seek help. I am locking this thread.

Interesting to see this thread necro'd! As it turns out there is no need to combine emptiness and compassion, they are in fact inseparable. Where there is emptiness there is always compassion, though sometimes it takes a practice to open that compassion up.

Yes, Dogen IS saying something, absolutely. He is saying: "When you actualize your practice it happens here... NOW." Realization of enlightenment doesn't happen in the past or future, it happens when you drop all of your doing and find sudden presence in this moment by sitting". Awaken, and actualize the practice NOW. The dream of watching the world is the same as the dream of becoming engrossed watching television. The moment you become engaged in the story of what you watch you are lost. There is watching phenomena arise and pass, impermanent, not being caught up in the story of the mind. There is simple presence, and the emptiness of self/time/space. This happens all the time... it is just waiting for you to notice. Take a deep breath and let it out from your mouth slowly as you read this sentence. Maybe it is happening now as you read these words?

Yes. Good. I like "awareneness" or "beingness" as descriptors. What he means here is that one can take observation of what this all is and reduce it, and reduce it again until one arrives at a final simple conclusion - there is just awareness shining back. This is too complicated, IMHO. It's all really simple. No places, relationships, activities, or placement. This moment just is, and there is a simple awareness of that which belongs to no-one and no-thing - pervades the field of phenomena. Arriving at this simple understanding is hard for us humans, especially those of us with the burden of education. It took me years to realized what a handicap it was for me. Practice is just being, without contrived concepts about how to go about it. You can find practices with massive to-do lists, but they all eventually point to this simple being. The Zen you got mixed up in so long ago is all about this simple "being" right from the start... the Theravada that interests you much less so, though they point at the same understanding.

Your answer implies success. I'm sure you found it. The "nada" sound is very similar to tinnitus too - I find them complementary.

it’s an excellent question to examine carefully. It is in fact everywhere in the field experience, and nowhere at all. You aren’t really doing Shikantaza until this is something that you can see properly. This is why Shikantaza is not different from enlightened mind. Everything is Mind. You are liberating all phenomena in the moment that labeling them stops.