Ajay0

Is the bliss of intrinsic nature or is it that of drugs ? The drug users are not enlightened, and are not exemplars of right action , as you put it. They cannot be considered sadhu (ascetic) or yogi. Because a sadhu is one who is austere and practice austerities. What is the austerity involved in easy and superficial usage of drugs ! A yogi is one who is yoked to the higher Self through the yogic methods. Drug use addiction only means more cravings and unconsciousness, and greater non-alignment with the Self. This is actually an unnatural state.

My understanding is that all human beings have an intuitive feeling that bliss and joy is their birthright, due to the innate potential of enlightenment or Buddhahood within them. Not getting it, they are obviously bound to look into external intoxicants to give themselves a high, even if it is temporary and followed by misery(hangover/comedown). Pleasure seeking through drugs, alcohol, sex, food, all becomes refuges and forms of escapism then. Western philosophy and psychology has not yet understood the phenomenon of enlightenment due to a short civilizational timeline, so it becomes a bigger problem over there. Philosophies like nihilism, hedonism and scientific materialism gives the thumbs up to get into perverse pleasure seeking modes as well, even if it crosses the boundaries of immorality and vice. As Sadhguru himself says, "When there is no joy in you, you become a pleasure seeker. " So, all this interest and dependencies on external intoxicants and pleasures means that one has not yet accessed the natural bliss within oneself, free, everlasting, inexpensive, healthy and superior to all known external pleasures. All these dependencies thus become medals of weakness, shallowness and ignorance the dependent reveals to those around him. And the delusional even exhibit them with pride.

In this article, Ram Dass ( Richard Alpert) described an experience he had when the enlightened Neem Karoli swallowed all his drugs in one go ... https://www.ramdass.org/ram-dass-gives-maharaji-the-yogi-medicine/

I think this issue is addressed in my thread on Sadhguru's talk on drugs... Unfortunately, instead of Sadhgurus content, people were more interested in his wealth and fame, and hence the thread got derailed with posts not connected with the theme. This happened with other threads on the subject, and so the reason I came up with new threads to make a fresh start. Hopefully, posters will talk on the content, and not derail them with unconnected topics. They can create separate threads on the unconnected topics which they wish to highlight.

I am sorry if these threads cause mental agitation in you due to aversion to anti-drug themes. Both cravings and aversions, as strong desires, cause mental agitation. By cultivating awareness and mental equanimity, one can transcend such desires and be immune to their influence. Also drug addiction, trafficking and consequent heavy violence is a complex problem the world is facing at the moment, so it is important to pay enough attention to the issue that is due to it, so as to effect a solution to the matter. Trivialising it would be synonymous with fuelling the issue, imho. As Winston Churchill stated, “Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.”

By 'fresh water' I meant meditation and enlightenment induced bliss. If you are enlightened, why do you have to join a cult or teacher ! The bliss of enlightenment is also much superior to temporary euphorias, folowed by misery (hangovers/comedowns), of drugs and alcohol. If you are not enlightened, you can join a Guru or spiritual practice exercising one's judgement after due diligence. This can sort out issues related to fake gurus or groomers/recruiters. Even Buddha himself was condemned as a fake Guru during his life-time, so it is important to do one's due diligence in this regard, and not go by opinions. The purpose of the external Guru is to tune one to the internal Guru within, after getting rid of much of the unconscious layers and vasanas or psychological impressions which blur the Self. Once the internal Guru is tuned to and intuition takes over, the external Guru's role is over. Yes, attachment to the Guru can become a problem. If the Guru is honest and have developed the disciple adequately, he or she will know when to let go so that the disciple advances to enlightenment.

Alcohol and drug abuse can result in brain damage, as per scientific research. https://mpowerwellness.com/brain-damage-from-drugs/ Similar articles can be found here... https://drugabuse.com/addiction/health-issues/neurological-risks/ https://www.thefreedomcenter.com/can-drugs-cause-permanent-brain-damage/

The enlightened sage Meher Baba has also emphasized the futility of using drugs to perceive the truth or attain the naturally blissful state of enlightenment... https://avatarmeherbabatrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/God-in-a-Pill.pdf Some of his sayings on this subject...

It is good to be reminded of the basics so that people will exercise due caution . People associate drugs with spirituality, which is an incorrect perception, considering its correlation with higher crime rates, rampant violence due to drug trafficking, regression in professional and personal lives, lower physical and mental health, as well as greater cravings and addictive behavior which makes one more unconscious and away from enlightenment and the much superior bliss of the natural state. As I stated earlier, it is like a thirsty person being content with sewer water when there is a fresh water lake nearby. But his tunnel vision prevents him from considering the lake nearby and even grates on those who point out the lake. My threads are there to provide perspective , that's all.

I live in India.

But he took the heavy dosage of drugs after understanding Ram Dass's interest in drugs, and to show him that it would not affect NKB in the least, as he was blissful by his own intrinsic enlightened state. It was a teaching, and not an acid trip.

An insightful article by Joan Tollifson on the nature of addiction, on how capitalism focusses on creating desires and addressing them rather than needs, creating an artificial psychological sense of lack in the process and thereby pleasure addictions... https://www.joantollifson.com/writing9.html Joan Tollifson is a spiritual teacher whose background includes Buddhism, Advaita, nontraditional meditative inquiry, radical nonduality, martial arts, somatic work, addiction recovery, political activism, visual arts . She is a student of Toni Packer, a teacher of zen buddhism , and have authored books and articles on meditation, nondual philosophy and openly shares her own experiences with addiction, depression, cancer, aging, disability, and other life adventures. Born handicapped losing a hand ( her right hand was severed in utero by a strand of amniotic tissue) she is also a disability rights activist.

Well, what can I say ? I am glad that knights in shining armor like yourself, Nungali and Taoist Woods are there to protect the ladies from the bad guys.

Guru is an ancient sanskrit word meaning remover of darkness ( unconsciousness). It is an ancient tradition in India and the Buddha himself was a Guru and enlightened master. In the ancient epics Ramayana and Mahabharatha, you can see the Avatars Rama and Krishna having Gurus like Vasishta and Sandeepani. The yoga vasistha is a famous treatise on the discussion between prince Rama and his Guru Vasistha on various issues touching worldly and spiritual life. The Ashtavakra Gita is a similar treatise on the dialogue and discussion between King Janaka and his Guru Ashtavakra leading to his enlightenment. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna serves as a Guru to Arjuna in the midst of the battlefield, clearing up his confusions and delusions. It is not a two or three century old tradition. An enlightened sage is also a source of auspicious energies and high prana/chi levels. This is why satsang or company of sages is emphasized in eastern religious philosophy. There is no hard and fast rule that one needs a Guru for enlightenment. A very healthy person, holistically speaking, can attain enlightenment on his own with proper effort and minimal guidance. However the learning and progress curve is greatly reduced by the grace and guidance of an enlightened sage, and one can then find time for other pursuits and interests and even excel in them. The west has no concept of enlightenment or Buddhahood, and this is why such concepts seem strange over there.

Do you seriously think that a man who was equanimous and clear-minded even after taking a heavy dosage of drugs which would have made anyone else delirious or nuts or even dead with a heart attack, would be moved to lustful agitation by the presence of a woman !

Common sense is not synonymous with ignorance. It is similar to saying that Trump is the owner of the Taj Mahal, when it is actually a historical monument in India.

This is not there in the book, only in the article, possibly due to misinterpretation , not studying the whole context in the book, and lack of knowledge of Indian cultural traditions of Tantra. It is quite clear in the book itself that NKB exemplified Tantric practices. These are some of his own teachings obtained from the book you have posted here ... What knowledge do you have of right handed Tantra, which is an ancient tradition in India !

A similar theme stated by Samdhong Rinpoche ... https://samdhongrinpoche.com/en/foreword/ I would say that a certain knowledge and understanding of the mind should be imparted in modern secular education so that children will not be conditioned to associate material success and gratifications with happiness solely while growing up, which can be a recipe for discontentment, depression and addictive behaviors later on. A happy, mindful and equanimous mind independent of circumstances and situations is also more productive in work and personal relations, compared to an unhappy mind filled with cravings that prevent contentment and consequently peace and happiness for himself or herself.

Yes, all the more reason to stay away from dangerous people like him.

Lol. I checked the event described in the book, and the context surrounding it. This is again an another example of misinterpretation of cultural traits of Hinduism. Here is additional material after that... As per Shaktaism and right-handed Tantra, every woman or female is a manifestation of the Divine Mother on earth and is seen as such. Sri Ramakrishna bowed and fell on his feet before every woman, including prostitutes, hailing them as the Divine Mother of the Universe or feminine God. NKB had similarly approached this woman as a son approaches a mother. I found other similar incidents in this book, and this should be studied and understood in the cultural context of Shaktaism and right-handed Tantra where a man perceives a woman as a son perceives his mother and treats her so, as a form of worship of the Divine Mother. You can see from the op that NKB is capable of mind-reading and had responded to Ram Dass's inner questions and doubts promptly and clearly without Ram Dass asking any questions. An enlightened sage similarly can study the mental makeup of a person , his karmas and psychological structure and act accordingly for the purpose of resolving karmic issues, even though such behavior may seem strange and unconventional to conditioned people. Sri Mumtaz Ali Khan, an Indian muslim of Afghan origin, had recounted in his autobiography , ' Apprenticed to a Himalayan Master (A Yogi's Autobiography)' , of how he met a famous naked sage through his uncle. When Khan prostrated before the sage, the sage kicked his face . When Khan protested to his uncle, his uncle said it would be for a reason. Later Khan found his sinus issues which had bothered him for a long time had totally disappeared.

Ram Dass had given an account of NKB' interaction with a foreign female devotee, but he has not given such explicit details as is written in the article, otherwise the whole book would have been controversial back then itself. So your argument that it is 'not rigging' does not hold water. NKB gives attention to foreign devotees who have come all over the world to his ashram. Because of their youthfulness, perhaps NKB gives more attention and care to them. Because of cultural differences this is often misinterpreted and even amplified with false narratives . I remember reading a letter in a local Indian magazine by an Indian youth addressed to a counsellor, who had a disturbing experience with his cousin who was born and brought up in the west. In his own words, when he met his teenage cousin after a long time, he tried to show love with intimate hugs and holding hands , which is a typical cultural charecterestic in the east. However the westernised cousin misinterpreted this intimate behavior as homosexual , and even insulted his shocked elder cousin with homophobic slurs. He was at a loss on what to do and thereby wrote a letter for guidance on this matter. Imho, much of such accusations has to do with cultural differences along with propaganda by powerful vested interests.

Accusations of rape and sexual abuse is an easy way to slander people and malign them. Vivekananda, after his success in the Parliament of religions in 1893, was similarly accused of sexual promiscuity, meat-eating and various other slander without any merit in them. That an eastern heathen had come and become a major success in the 1893 Parliament of Religions ( which was supposed to be a platform for the supposed superiority of certain religions) was oviously not to everyone's liking. Rigging up false witnesses and testimony is not a major deal in today's world, if you ask me, especially if it serves certain vested interests. Some spiritual teachers like Anthony de Mello and Thomas Merton, who had emphasized interfaith dialogue in their works, were found dead in mysterious circumstances suggesting foul play.

High moral standards or virtuous conduct can also lead to spiritual development and enlightenment. I had created a thread on the female enlightened master Rajini Menon who had attained enlightenment solely through adherence to virtuous conduct... Swami Satchidananda considered meditation and virtuous conduct to be synonymous, while Buddha had also stated that virtuous behavior is capable of attaining the highest , namely enlightenment or Buddhahood. These teachings negate philosophies like nihilism and existentialism which claim that values and virtues are abstract mental contrivances without relevance or significance of their own.

Cannabis, also known as marijuana, is a drug that is used in the minority Tantrik sects of Hinduism (left-handed path) along with alcohol and meat, and some northern Shaivite sects, such as the Naga sect. Its use is not standard in Hinduism, due to its potential addictive properties that lead to cravings and unconsciousness. It is stated in Ayurveda, the Indian medical system, as 'nectar' due to its medicinal properties and as 'poison' as a reacreational drug. It is used judiciously in some religious settings to still the mind, but never for a lengthy period of time due to the tamasic or negative states of mind it can create such as dependency and addiction. But these are done rarely and is frowned upon generally due to the dangers associated with it. It is also taken according to religious rites and regulations , and is considered sinful if not taken according to such rites. Consequently, the sadhus as shown in the photo above, who indulge in cannabis are a peaceful, religious and austere lot and are not known for criminal activities such as theft and murder. It is also used amongst those of the Sufi and Sikh religions during festivals. British researchers in 2007, using Delphic analysis, stated that cannabis has a lower risk factor for dependence/addictivity compared to nicotine and alcohol. In Buddhism, cannabis is generally regarded as an intoxicant and hindrance to development of meditation and clear awareness. It is legal only in some regions of India where licensed shops sell it. Other drugs such as opium ( introduced in India around 700 A.D. by the arabs) has no similar status or sanction though it has medical properties in Ayurveda when used judiciously. The same goes for other drugs like heroin, lsd, mdx and so on.

Drugs are also a cause of geopolitical issues and disturbances around the world. It served as a major source of funds for terrorist organisations like the Taliban and ISIS. After the defeat of U.S.-NATO forces in 2021, the Taliban came to power and ironically banned drug production, possibly to gain international legitimacy, declaring it as haram under Islamic law, and possibly considering the large number of Afghan drug addicts. The Mexican drug war, initiated in 2006, has resulted in over 350000 homicides and 90000 missing.Similar drug wars in the Phillipines, Thailand,Bangladesh has resulted in deaths of thousands. As a result of the concentration of drug trafficking, Latin America and the Caribbean has the world's highest crime rates, with murder reaching 32.6 per 100,000 of population in 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_Latin_America#:~:text=As a result of the,intensified the Mexican Drug War. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_drugs Narcoterrorism is a term coined by a former Peruvian president describing terrorist attacks against his nations anti-narcotics police. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcoterrorism It is clear that a sea of blood has been tragically spilt in these issues of competitive drug trafficking and drug prohibition, as well as violence committed under the influence of drugs. Getting into 'highs' should not be at the expense of society around oneself by creating victims in the process, imho.