natural

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Posts posted by natural

  1. Posted

    41 minutes ago, manitou said:

     

     

    It's good that you have this pride in your rebelliousness.  So the price tag for this is accepting the Is-ness of the people around you.  People may have a little fear to be around someone that isn't vaxxed - your mom, apparently.

     

    I always had pride in my rebelliousness too, until I realized one day that I was cutting off half of my options.  When someone told me to go left, I had to go right - just to reinforce that rebelliousness and separateness, and in my case, it was just to be noticed, I think.  If this tendency is eliminated, we have access to 100% of our options.  We can go either left or right.  It doesn't matter who tells us what.

     

    Something along the lines of:

    Some people are born to greatness (or contrariness) some are thrust into it and others strive for it.

    I for one have not taken directions easily, but found great comfort or joy in providing them to others.

     

    As I have aged I mellowed, and do not feel as compelled to control as I use to!

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  6. Posted

    4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

     

    I agree that it's the unusual mother who would find the "suffering is optional" phrase a healing balm, especially at the beginning of her journey through grief.  But consider the alternative statement: suffering is compulsory.  To my ear this sounds even more cruel.  At some point we all have the right to put down our burdens.

     

    I am more than ready Luke to put down my burdens can we find a place of peace, without judgement where I may do so?

    I would be so glad to meet you there!

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  9. Posted

    Just now, silent thunder said:

    @natural

    Pain does not equal Suffering. 

    This is my experiential awareness.

     

    i understand if you won't, don't or can't differentiate... this is why I ended my post with (in my experience).

    I'm not selling this as your truth; i am sharing my own realization.

    Oh my friend , I have recognized, undergone and have experience in discerning the difference between pain self-inflicted or external in origin. 

    As I stated earlier pain ignored almost always results in suffering, be it  immediate or delayed.

  10. Posted

    1 minute ago, C T said:

    @natural

     

    I too have a friend who experienced overwhelming physical and mental trauma as a result of being robbed, beaten up, and raped in her own home. She told me that the trauma in the aftermath of the horrific event was many times worse than the incident itself. Even therapy did little to alleviate the force of her aversion to what happened. She knew that she could not function if she continued to remain in that dark tunnel, so she consciously chose to do volunteer work at a rape crisis centre. This decision to be proactive, she said, was the best decision she ever made. It widened her perspective to such an extent that within a few months, she was able to find purpose and meaning to life again. We were all amazed by the transformation. So yes, to some extent, verifiably, suffering is a crisis of perception. 

     

    As you can imagine volunteering in a super sterile environment the burn unit is not a realistic option.

    However, I truly appreciate and commend your friends efforts.

    Truly we each have unique paths to wholeness.

  11. Posted

    2 minutes ago, dwai said:

    I find all discussions keep coming back to a fundamental difference in opinion/understanding of how words are used. What does “suffering” mean?

     

    Is all pain suffering?

     

    If not, what pain constitutes suffering and what doesn’t?  What separates pain from suffering? 
     

     

     

    On a basic level pain is a warning alert, suffering usually occurs, but not always when we ignore the pain and carry on, so not all pain is suffering.

    Ignoring pain almost always results in suffering in my experience. Put your hand in a flame, ignore the pain from the heat and remain there is a surefire way to suffer. Pun intended!

  12. Posted

    3 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

    You describe mind.  Lymph is mind.  Body is mind.  World is mind.

     

    What that is spoken of and perceived is not mind?  It's all mind. 

     

    When mind turns outward, it identifies with projection, assumption, conditioning.

    When turned inward, with the natural state.

     

    There are no things, only mind.  No thing abides but for a brief interlude of mind propping it up. 

    There is only awareness.

     

    Suffering is a projection of mind, what mind creates.

    Suffering is a crisis of perception.

    (in my experience)

    Well thank you for that!

    I had a neighbor who was working on a vehicle, when the gas began to leak, and ignited covering him in flames.

    His scream was horrific, something I can recall today.

     

    I rushed to him a African American and he appeared pink, yet in shock. I shouted follow me as I phoned 911 and ran as fast as i could while cajoling him to follow.

     

    I don't believe he was suffering a crisis of perception as he endured a 3 month medical induced coma as they grew and grafted new skin tissue.

     

    I still suffer from the memory, is that what you describe?

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  13. Posted

    2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

     

    I agree that it's the unusual mother who would find the "suffering is optional" phrase a healing balm, especially at the beginning of her journey through grief.  But consider the alternative statement: suffering is compulsory.  To my ear this sounds even more cruel.  At some point we all have the right to put down our burdens.

     

    I am not regulating suffering, just acknowledging it occurs, is not an option to most of us.

    I shed tears daily on the inhumanity we impose on others with such disregard.

  14. Posted

    Just now, liminal_luke said:

     

     

    Whether a given statement is cruel or compassionate depends a great deal on interpersonal context.  Suppose a mother lost her son in a drive by shooting.  In almost all cases telling such a mother that her suffering is optional would be cruel.  But there are a few mothers for whom that statement would be a healing balm.  How the words are heard depends entirely on the mother.  

     

    And their particular circumstances, however I suspect the few mothers that find "healing balm" in the worn out "suffering is a choice are as common as chickens with teeth.

    Sure, it happens but is such an anomaly as to be considered abnormal.

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  15. Posted

    1 minute ago, dwai said:

    Suffering as I am viewing it is a very specific mental phenomenon, that entails resistance to any "change" in the status quo. Yes, terrible things happen due to wars, famines, pandemics, etc. But whether someone "suffers" or not is dependent on their frame of mind. Suffering is a psychological phenomenon. Pain, illness, poverty,  etc are terrible things, some inflicted by nature, other by circumstances while others by members of the society. 

    I'm not trying to dismiss others' suffering as unimportant or insignificant. Rather, I'm suggesting that for the majority of humanity (outside of things like wars, famines, etc) it is a self-inflicted problem of the mind. 

     

    So, mind over matter?

    What about the developing mind of an infant or child?

    Please don't play the "Karma card".

    Suffering maybe buffered by a mature fully developed individual, and may be an issue for we of the great unwashed (unenlightened) masses.

  16. Posted

    21 minutes ago, dwai said:

    Suffering occurs due to our resistance to circumstances/happenings. There is no "purpose" for suffering - it is entirely self-inflicted. 

     

    I am not so sure that suffering doesn't have an educational "purpose".

    Unprovoked animal attacks?

    Are they self-inflicted?

     

    How about collateral damage by drive by shooters?

    The children in the Texas mass shooting?
     

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  22. Posted

    My instructor at the time was also a designated Pilot examiner, a women only to say at that time the early mid 70 's that was ab\n exceptional accomplishment for a civilian and even more so for a women.

     

    I still recall doing a very tricky takeoff exhibiting my fledgling short soft field take off off a grass runway.

    Any how I taxied back as far as possible and while standing on the brakes applied full powe,r pleased with the response I released the brakes and hauled back on the yoke.

     

    Around 30 knots indicated we achieved lift off with the stall warning screaming something l like Danger Will ??Rogers Danger!

    I maintained forward flight as we slowly increased speed until we reached  vx or best angle of takeoff. The stall horn continued to sqauck as I pulled the nose for all intents and puoposes to the sky. Ms. Anna belle ????F  asked me where in the hell did you learn to do that? And for Gods sake lower the nose we cleared the mystical 50 foot trees a bit back!

     

    I lowered my nose only to see a state police helicopter on an intercept course if I would have maintained that attitude it would not have ended well. Alot learned in a very short time!

  25. Posted · Edited by natural

    1 hour ago, old3bob said:

     

    i can relate to that for ever since I was a little kid I could swim very well and enjoyed being in the water,  so now and then I found it kind of strange when I saw someone afraid of getting into a pool because they could not even dog-paddle and would sink, or were unable to go above their knees at an ocean beach,  thus I was assuming everyone had at least the most basic water skills but it is not so.  

     

    Been there done that as well...

    What do they say about assumptions?

    Something about making them makes the one making them an ass, and yes I have the t shirt !

     

    Now a days my mantra is thought before action when ever possible....

    Must I truly react or might I consider a response?

    An old not so bold commercial pilot strongly suggested when it looks like you are going into the weeds, It is time wind your watch!

     

    But then once when i tried to land a 1940 something Piper Cub A tail wheel front to back two seater on the grass at a large airport, between two active runways, the crosswind caught me off guard. And in a matter of seconds the plane was aimed at the hardest possible odject parallel to the runway. I was awoken out of my fear and stupor by a shout to quit winding your watch and fly the f......... plane to  a complete stop. LOL

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