old3bob

28 minutes ago, dwai said:

From James Swartz 

 

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What is Awareness?

 

If the object of inquiry is beyond the scope of perception, it will be difficult to describe because language operates only in the world of experience. Therefore, we can never get a precise definition of consciousness from words. How can the limitless cause of existence be packed into words? Perception tells us that the universe is quite small, limited to what we can see with the eyes, hear with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue and touch with the skin. The invention of instruments that extend the range of the senses expands our notion of the scale of the universe and we now infer that it is infinite. When we try to infer the cause of the universe, both perception and inference break down and imagination takes over. We imagine someone or something so vast, grand and glorious that it cannot be experienced or described.

This imagination-fed belief leads to the conclusion that words are useless as far as enlightenment is concerned. It is responsible for the notion that consciousness is a mystery and will forever remain a mystery. It is a mystery if you do not know how to look for it, but once you are in on the secret, it is as accessible as the nose on your face. What if the cause of the universe is not out there somewhere in space or locked in the infinite past, but is in our own minds? What if you have unwittingly been tricked by perception into looking in the wrong place? Nobody says that love cannot be experienced and known, even though no words can describe it. In fact we do not need a word to describe the self, because it is self evident. But if it is not self evident to you, then words can be very helpful.

A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. If attention goes in the direction indicated by the finger, the mind will experience and know the moon. If it is properly assimilated, the knowledge contained in a sentence or a group of sentences can destroy ignorance. The implied meaning of a sentence can also give knowledge. Self inquiry does not claim to describe the self, prove the existence of the self, or generate an experience of the self. It is not necessary because consciousness is always present and self evident. But if you allow its words to guide your investigation, they will reveal what is always revealed:

“The self, pure awareness, is limitless bliss and unending pleasure. It is beyond the dualities of the mind. It is the is-ness that sees, the is-ness that is known through Vedanta’s statement, ‘You are That.’ It is the one, eternal, pure, unchanging witness of everything. It is beyond experience and the three qualities of nature. I bow to that self, the one that removes ignorance.”

Furthermore, awareness is the non-physical “light” that makes experience possible. It is the container of experience and experience is the content. We exist quite happily in deep sleep without experience of objects, but we cannot experience anything without awareness, including the experience of sleep.

There are so many ways to explain this - but it requires a truly open mind to understand/realize. If one’s mind is preoccupied by concepts and ideas, then it cannot truly accept the knowledge (indirect though it may be). If it cannot accept the knowledge, how can it realize? 

The mind and or our minds with all of its powers can not pass over or through the threshold to no-thing, although it can realize that and be lawful servant up to the threshold.  Few of us are ready pay the absolute price to cross over to no-thing which is  no-mans and no gods land,  I'm not although a partial peek can take place but that also has its price...

Only the Absolute or the Self knows the Absolute or the Self beyond regular knowing, that is the catch while we are pondering.  

The Absolute or Source does provide and power (the Shakti of) all permutations of its Self  which are connected so to speak,  but it is also transcendent to them,  thus and namely not bound to or by the laws that they are under per the "One" of all time and space which some here are  strangely in a convoluted denial of?  (which to me is like a denial of pure Shakti working there-in  although it is not divorced from the Absolute or the Self, thus being an inseparable first manifest aspect)  In other words the unmanifest is connected to the manifest with there being no running away from the manifest and all of its laws.

I think that is a great excerpt from said author!   The light/Shakti for him is  described as settling into a wonderful/awesome 24/7 presence and who could ask for more concerning  evolution!   I'd also say it can be piercing like an arc-light that is way to bright and blinding to look at although that may just be part of a transition to his description?  Yet if light goes inside of itself what will it find, I'd say its Source...beyond description and memory which can not nail it down.

6 hours ago, dwai said:

What soul? 

the one some haven't realized yet

2 hours ago, dwai said:

all beings are already enlightened - they just haven’t realized it yet 

ok, we have heard that many a time which does not take into account evolution of the soul,  (although and granted the Self, which could be said to be the Soul of the soul does not evolve) anyway we could say all beings will realize such by the end of the cosmic cycle, ready or not.  

We've heard a thousand things about enlightenment and related teachings but we haven't or seldom hear about the end of the cosmic cycle and what happens with all beings then?  (although the historic Buddha mentioned it in a way or in passing to Ananda)  So if all beings return to the great Tao,  ready or not, at the end of the cosmic cycle then all beings will be enlightened per that returning ... (before it begins again)

What does your teachings or system say about this? 

Btw. i'd say transcendental ponderings, etc. are not excuses to not deal with the "world" of people and our environmental degradations...  dreams do not feed the hungry, homeless and suffering multitudes, work on serious environmental concerns or free people who are better off in the physical or astral worlds.

"....the thread is about survival, there are times when surviving becomes more challenging. often, it is your state of mind that will determine your outcome. Stay focused. Stay calm"

if there is space there is time, with both joined at the hip so to speak...

it all begins and it all ends over and over again,  the children of the Absolute are not illusions but the Absolute Itself veiled in forms by lawful purpose. 

"In the beginning was the Word..."

or figure this: 

 “There is a beginning. There is no beginning of that beginning. There is no beginning of that no beginning of beginning. There is something. There is nothing. There is something before the beginning of something and nothing, and something before that. Suddenly there is something and nothing. But between something and nothing, I still don't really know which is something and which is nothing. Now, I've just said something, but I don't really know whether I've said anything or not.”
― Zhuangzi

7 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

The satisfaction is found in the knowing of who you truly are, and the more continuously you can stay in that consciousness, the more satisfaction everything will bring to you.  It is life loving life, that's all.

Righto which I was trying to get at,  and I'd add that that knowing is not of mind knowing or knowledge, but of Spirit knowing which sees right through mental constructs.   

27 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I went to college in Alaska :-)

Did you hear that term back then?  I was also there near Anchorage for a couple of years in the 70's.  The summers were great, not so much for the long winters!   It was different, for instance if someone poached a moose it might make front page news but if someone was murdered in the wild down town area it might be reported on the 3rd page of the local papers...

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Hang on ... there's something about the formula 'old foggy = Apech' which I don't warm to. lol.

A term that it is probably not heard much anywhere else but Alaska is this:  "Pioneers who wandered the territory carrying sourdough starter in their packs became known as “sourdoughs”—a term that is now used to label an Alaskan old timer".  (and some who were or are pretty sour like in dealing with greenhorns)

"Tao goes far and returns,  to paraphrase a saying."  (and also in a way never left per my understanding)

6 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I so rarely find myself vibing with any of your opinions on social issues, but reading the post above I feel like sitting next to you on a park bench and being old foggies together. Lets get Apech.  I´ll buy birdseed to feed the pigeons.

 

(To be honest, I enjoy sexually themed shows.  I liked Transparent.  Back in the day, my best friend used to throw weekly Queer as Folk parties; we´d all huddle around the TV, eager to watch a sexy soap featuring gays like us.  That was fun. But I do wonder if as a culture we´re overdoing the identity thing; are we a bit too quick to put ourselves and others into various ideologically bogged-down boxes?  Let´s have (consensual, ethical) sex with who we want to have sex with.  Let´s dress up in gowns or jeans or leather panties.  Whatever.  But do we have to make such a big deal about the name we give ourselves?  Maybe our labels aren´t so important.)

 

Well I watch tv or movies looking for epic adventures, quests or action,  say "Lord of the Rings" type shows or something like "Bosch" the detective,  some informative historical documentaries, treasure hunting, an occasional survival episode  and quality Sci-Fi like "Dune",, so my bias is related to those. 

Does anyone think  TV and movies overdoing all the sexual variations of people on their shows, it seems kind of like sometimes when making it a big part of the show...then again I'm an old guy pretty set in my ways. 

I'd suggest getting off the esoteric high horse which is above it all, for  in the created universe with countless beings there is time, space, seasons etc...whereas no-thing, no space, and no time, is also no man's and no gods land where evolution has ended or never was and only one being exists yet That is big enough to include said creation not as a nihilistically denied illusion but as relative reality.

Tao goes far and returns,  to paraphrase a saying.

58 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

whooosh

we know that a whoosh takes time to pronounce 

5 hours ago, silent thunder said:

You infer what was not implied...  

 

are you saying evolution does not need time? Since time is an illusion per your manifesto...

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Time does not exist.  It is a human function of memory and comparison.

 

All is unfolding perpetually now.  There is no past or future. 

 

Memory of the past occurs now.  Fantasizing about the future occurs now.  It has never been not now.  Time is the illusory human experience of reconciling memory with the ever shifting unfolding of the co-arising aggregates.

 

It's how we compartmentalize and rationalize what lies beyond the ken of our apparatus' ability to process.

 

Rest as awareness and be what you are, as you are.  Awareness is,  the rest is story time and interpretation.

there is a purpose to evolution regardless if some deny it....

To me the Buddha (among founders of other ways) sometimes said seemingly conflicting things,  for instance see the saying below which does not actually deny a Self, (capitiol S) a Self which is not to be confused with a compounded self (which to me is a misunderstanding in much of orthodox Buddhism) 

“There is, Oh Monks, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. Monks, if that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded.”

— Buddha

51 minutes ago, dwai said:

There is no THING apart from the Self. 

The great Tao is in (so to speak) all things but is not a thing, for things including the One are born/derived from the Great Tao,  if you will some correlation of that can be found in Hinduism.

2 hours ago, dwai said:

the mind is not the Self. The Self is not contained in anything, neither space nor time, and certainly not the mind. The Self “contains” everything, in the same way as a TV screen contains images. Everything is an appearance in the Self (pure consciousness). 
 

When we say “ignorance is in the mind”, it means the mind, which is reflected consciousness, assumes it is an independent entity to which the world exists - and it affixes labels and ownership (ego) on the things in the world. This ignorance is what prevents the mind from recognizing itself as an appearance in the Self. Truth is that it is nothing apart from the Self, ignorance is that mind doesn’t realize/know/recognize this. 
 

When we say “enlightenment is in the mind”, it means since the mind is deluded about itself, correct knowledge will enlighten it as to its true nature - aka The Self. 
 

The mind's true nature is a Thing whether dark or bright,  Self is beyond such categories per revealed teachings and true Guru.

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

I guess that the answer to that question would reside with the person asking the question. Everyone eats. But not everyone eats the same thing. A man can love a woman but not all men can love the same woman.

I'd say that any man or woman could be with ten thousand partners 10 thousand times or eat ten thousand variations of food ten thousand times, all of which would pass away and not be enough to satisfy the soul in the end. 

14 hours ago, Tommy said:

The person whose thoughts bubbled up and wondered, "This is why I ask why am I not enlightened?". There is no mystery here. And nothing so enticing as to draw my mind to one focus. I am like everyone else, sleep walking thru life and having a good time.

 

At one time, I asked a person if they would like to escape birth, death and being reborn again into suffering. He said, "He wants to do it all over again. Why stop?". Then, I thought that everyone thinks they want one thing. But is that just is what the propaganda wants us to believe? Does one just eat one meal for the rest of their lives? We dance this dance and we dance again.

after countless experiences but such still not being enough - what can satisfy beyond all measure? 

8 hours ago, dwai said:

Ignorance is in the mind, enlightenment is also in the mind. The Self was, is, and will forever be free. 

 "Mind" per many of Hinduisms revealed teachings does not and can not contain the Self.... for instance and as found in the Chandogya Upanishad and others;  although and granted pure mind  (as a THING) aligns with and serves the Self.