old3bob

in non-dualism ok but not in dualism...with some schools in complete denial of dualism which is not my cup of tea.

which is what i more or less implied....yes?

I'd say as long as there is time and space and vast multitudes of various emanations repeating in endless cycles, then there is also dharma and adharma going on. I also like that saying along the lines of : "samsara properly understood is nirvana"

ok, true mystics are not limited to the 100% dualistic orthodox Bible interpretations via its text or other such teachings. In fact some outspoken or otherwise mystics have been murdered by "orthodox" forces over the years.

if dharma is delusion then we're in nihilistic like trouble...or such trouble is ready to take over anytime, anywhere with anyone. I prefer to put unanswered questions on an agnostic like shelf where they don't have to immediately be black or white. Btw, some tricksters (obvious or not) can also be taken as teachers.

if dharma is delusion then we're in nihilistic like trouble...or such trouble is ready to take over anytime, anywhere with anyone. I prefer to put unanswered questions on an agnostic like shelf where they don't have to immediately be black or white. Btw, some tricksters (obvious or not) can also be taken as teachers.

Haribol, to me your quotes are strangely located after the Nataraja image and quote? FYI I did bring up the Bible one about not to worry earlier. Btw, dualistic orthodox Abrahamic religion's per the Bible and other Abrahamic related teachings will never cross the bridge to non-dualism. Agreed?

Where and when does evolution take place? Only in times and spaces, yes? Earlier we talked about human identity as passing and apparent, thus would you agree same is taking place or evolving in times and spaces... anyway I'm not saying a passing and apparent identity can be equated to the Self but that in unwinding a passing and apparent identity (which is noble work and purposeful to find freedom) then what is left or what was always there, thus free of being bound in times and spaces or limited to a particular form, whether it be as a human or a god? I'd say that That is ultimately realized as Truest identity.

Although I'd say time and space in time and space realms (which vary) apply and thus should not be written off as some kind of delusion.

and I'd say such a "sudden" which is now, is not really of time or on a time line.... (thus not strictly bound in ways that we might think)

That's evolution, yes? In Hinduism in general the Self does not evolve and knows the Self by the Self. (with a pure mind being a great and important tool and preparation but not the Self, nor can mind cross the barrier of things which it is part of to reach or know the Self)

"...We remain human..." By Steve, I wasn't sure of your import there (?) but 'if' we remain human then we have not yet realized that being identified as a particular human/mind is only an apparent and passing identity.

not many advanced teachers are married with multiple kids and a 9-5 job of working 45-60 hrs+ a week along with a travel commute, and that is only part of the package of dealing with all the other demands of being a householder in the world! Young kids alone are almost a 24-7 job for one of their parents, or if and when they switch on and off. Ad taking care of parents and grandparents to that...

meaning finding parallels with other ways?

oh heck - I used to have a lot flying, swimming and surfing dreams that were far out! The flying ones started out with short jumps which I extended in my dreams to longer and longer jumps which then turned into flying, and as long as I had a fair amount of energy I didn't have to land or sometimes end up crashing into the ground. Alas, after being a blue collar working stiff for decades I've been having a lot dreams of my old job and fellow workers. (btw, the being late to work ones are stressful since the company could fire people for that, but I'm relieved when I wake and remember that I'm retired )

just a side note: there is the Zen story of a person who had little training yet upon hearing a wise concept/saying he suddenly got "it"! Maybe Mark or anyone else could fill us in on that?

"...We remain human and it is the human mind that experiences and recollects the release of limitations as some special state. That in and of itself is a bit of an error." Steve There is a lot packed into your sentence above! (and the related post) Is there an 'if' in part of it? My interpretation along that line would say that the traced memory of "it" is not "it". (but that pointers/maps/signposts can surely help)

the ways or teachings of renunciates are often being quoted at this site but a householder/family person can not rightly be a renunciate and also fulfill their householder dharma at the same time....In many/most Hindu traditions when a householder has fulfilled that dharma then they can transition to being a renunciate, whereas some become vowed renunciates/monks or nuns of an order at a very early age. What problems have you seen along such lines?

something for us bums to consider: "...If you do not strive with others, You will be free from blame." from Chapter 8 T.T.C. (I'd say Steve has often been setting this example)

I'd say many dreams are pretty much of the astral realms, and the astral realms can pretty much range much from A-Z, or relatively high or low realms. Visions from purer realms beyond the astral while asleep are another matter...

never thought this post would also have so many legs or words like "syncategorematic" which I'm still not all that clear about even after looking it up... ;-)

I'm not a Taoist so I can't really say so for its doctrines or various schools, yet i do paraphrase parts of it according to my limited understanding and what correlates to me... Btw, we also have some points that are not easy to integrate imo, like how can there be what some folks call "impersonal enlightenment" when persons and compassion are involved which is personal...

"mind" can not cross the barrier and remain, my parapharse of Chapter 43 of the Tao Teh Ching. soul develops for who knows how long or for how far but in the end merges or returns to the ocean and is no longer identified as a separate wave.

I'd say thoughts about Spirit are constucts, unconditoned pure and free Spirit is not... The Great Tao can see the ten thousand but the ten thousand can not see the Tao through ten thousand layers. (or something along those lines)

"things" is the catch, for there is that which is not an impermanet thing, the human mind is a thing (with computer like aspects) that can not know no-thing no mater how hard it trys per every which way. Btw very few of us are ready or willing to give up our particualr mind which is our particualr identity. (which would entail dangers if not done via Spirit)