OldDog

For me the relevance is in seeing how prevalent the various texts must have been. Its remarkable that these texts surived the infamous book burning in 213 BCE. For a tomb to be found with these texts suggests that the ideas in the TTC must have been in wide circulation at the time. This is the main point of Dan Reid's The Thread of Dao.

"I takes delight in the fruit of the barley. "

For the Dao to find acceptance in the west where the Abrahamic faiths predominate, there can be no contention with the notion of God. Most Abrahamic faiths take a pretty exclusionary view of anything that sounds like the wrong interpretation of God. Daoist principles can find acceptance from a philosophic point of view. So, taking Nature as a example of the working of Dao seems more appropriate .... long as you don't get into a discussion on evolution. Just watch out how you approach the notion of change.

Sounds 'bout right ... 'cept he left out the part 'bout mice springing forth from a sweaty shirt and wheat.

... speaking of a few rare old men ... (Pardon me if I have posted this before.)

Stan Rogers was a great folk musician. Sad that he passed so young but his music survives on streaming sites. Folk traditions are not very popular these days. A shame because they have a lot to teach about history and heritage. @rideforever Great post. Thanks!

A man cannot see his own image in flowing water but sees it in water which is at rest.

I tend to agree with the emotions discussion. When I think about the extreme emotional experiences I have had ... love, anger, fear ... I can recall as much physical feeling as mental stress. This only confirms for me that body, mind and spirit constitute a whole. From there it seems reasonable that milder emotional response might also be reflected in the physical experience .... maybe even show up there before we are even aware mentally. And perhaps, if the emotional experience were extreme, that once the immediate circumstances have resolved, physical traces remain. (Makes me wonder about the true nature of post traumatic stress, but thsts a whole different discussion) So, if this were true, then how does one listen to the body. I think it is largely a matter of mindfulness. Initially, in developing mindfulness, establishing a quiet setting, without a lot of distraction, so that you can focus (listen) on the feelings that are present in the body seems advisable. As you gain familiarity with the body's feelings, taking mindfulness outside of the setting might be easier. Emotions seem like a good place to start.

You know, this is not the first time that has been pointed out. Marblehead pointed it out on a post I had with him. It must be in the manner I express myself. I don't always catch it but clearly I need to be more careful. Thanks. Yes, Reid's The Thread of Dao and Pregadio's The Seal of The Unity of The Three have had a huge impact on me this last year. It is primarily from these two works that my sense of a broader daoism springs. I am a big believer that new and different understandings reveal themselves to you when you are ready, when the time is right. All part of the journey.

This morning I was reading Chuangtse and it occured to me that this might be the best place to ask about something that has nagged me for years. My favorite translator of Laotse and Chungtse is Lin Yutang. In his writings, he mentions that his translation of Chuangtse is taken from the Sweeping Leaves Lodge version of Chuangtse. I have never heard of this version, no other reference anywhere I have encountered, probably because it is a relatively obscure or untranslated text. It sounds strangely Buddhist. Has anyone else heard of the Sweeping Leaves Lodge version of Chuangtse and can you provide any background on the text?

I can't seem to find a setting for this site.that will increase the display font. I have my tablet (Fire HD 8) set to very large and it is not affecting this site. Any suggestions?

Thanks, anyway. The rendering on the Fire tablet is a really small font. Strains my old eyes. Can you tell me if the rendering is any different on a tablet other than a Fire tablet? May be that the Fire OS is not as full featured as a.standard Android OS.

Running Silk and Opera browsers but I don't see settings their either. When I change tablet to very large font all the desktop display is very large but no effect inside the browsers. Is there a.special app for the TDB.site? Any help you can provide gratefully appreciated. Thx

No offense intended. Was just getting used to the notion of Sweeping Leaves in reference to a publishing house. Guess I was expecting something a little less mundane. Not expecting anyone to take up the phrase as a metaphor ... but it fits nicely. Well, it seems to fit with my developing sense of early daoist writings ... especially Laozi and Zhuangzi. It seems that there are those that suggest that those works may have been compilations from more than one contributor. I have always been somewhat irritated by those comments ... thinking of those that hold those views as detractors, in that it seems to draw focus away from the content and somehow deminish the signiificance. Still, it is hard to argue the analysis and reasoning behind the comments, which seems to be largely based on style and structure of the writing. On the other hand,, some of the material I have been reading lately shows that there was a much broader tradition at work as evidenced by writings difinitively attributed to other writers and earlier periods where the language is strikingly similar to Laozi. So, now to read the passage provided from Livia Kohn's work ... well, that seemed remarkable. The source material is so old, why wouldn't it be resonable for someone (Guo Xiang) to edit and reinterpret an ancient text. All of this shows that I have considerably more to learn and since I do not speak or read Chinese I have to rely on secondary sources, if you will. At the same time, I do not want to go down a rabbit hole in search for the truth of who wrote the source material. The material points to a truth that is valid regardless of who actually wrote it. That is where proper focus belongs. This thread has been an enjoyable exercise for me.

I'm a little confused at this point ... not sure how to take this. Are you appropriating the the phrase "Swept Leaves" to desribe the result of Guo Xiang's revision of a now lost manuscript ... and citing Livia Kohn's explanation? That's remarkable.

Yeah, I have their 1970 self-titled album on vinyl. Really enjoyed the acoustic blues thing with all the great picking improv. Liked the electric sound less. Then 'long about '72 took a turn toward the outlaw country sounds of Willie, Jerry Jeff, Waylon, Merle and the like. Took a while to find my way back to basic rock.

btw ... did I mention I am a bit of a Dead Head ...

I had always taken that figuratively rather than specifically. Though it would make sense. Many/most primative attempts at explaining the world seem to result in the notion of an anthropomorphic supreme deity.

Well said! As Chuangetse observes ... Words are used to express meaning, when you understand the meaning, you can forget about the words. Where can I find a man who forgets about words to talk with him? Strict interpretationist views leave little room for discussion. Also, your expanding on the gazpacho analogy (lol) demonstrates the usefulness of such devices as humor, poetry, etc, in getting a point across. It just made a fun read and kept us from taking a point too seriously. Thanks!

OK, that makes a lot of sense. In reviewing what you provided, it seems that the Mountain Lodge of Swept Leaves (publishing house) was known for producing inexpensive printings of classics, thus making them more accessible to the general public. Thank you. Answers a question I have had for a long time. Incidentally, light was also shed on Lin Yutang's role in the humorist movement in chinese literature in early 20th century.

Well, I find it interesting ... not unexpected ... but interesting. I have long known that Lin Yutang's personal experience was one of Christian upbringing ... turning to Taoism ... then returning to Christianity. (Not very well stated, I know) He even wrote a book titled Pagan to Christian about his issues of faith (Uh-oh, there's that word again) which I will read at some point, when I feel the time is right. So, I accept the interpretation of Heaven as God because I understand how it happens. It's not a point that needs to be belabored. Many/most western translators work has these inadvertent appropriations scattered throughout; e.g. Wilhelm/Baynes' I Ching and Wilhelm/Wilhelm's Understanding the I Ching . Can't be helped. It would only become questionable if it were done with some ulterior motive or intent. How do you feel about it?

Absolutely! Even trying to address this thread ... just saying the word "faith" is difficult. Being raised Christian you can't escape the meaning of the word. One othe things that has happened to me over the last year is that I have become quite sensitive to other religious influences on translated material. Since I don't read Chinese I just have to proceed carefully. I'll take my gazpacho straight up. Or better yet ... make mine a michelada!

Still on a celtic tear ...

In one sense faith is not necessary ... not in the sense of accepting something as true or meaningful without validation. I think this is what makes daoism appealing. Each of us has the ability to validate the notions of daoism directly ... through our own being and sense of unity with existence. One can argue that it takes a leap of faith to take a step toward that validation but the truth and meaning are there and accessible.

This separation would seem to be the source of much of the anxiety and difficulties of human existence. Acknowledging this separation would be a first step towards transformation. Somewhere in my readings ... probably in discussions of around neigong or internal alchemy ... there was introduced the notion that like things attract. I know I may not be expressing this well but the idea was that through self-cultivation practices ... the emptying of the heart-mind ... one would be creating a state that would attractive to the energy of existence. And through this one could begin to experience the sense of unity of all existence. This seems to resonate with with dao zhen's statements above.