OldDog

Look, this was not a test. I actually saw results that were significant and substantial ... where multiple visits to multiple MDs not only failed but saw the condition worsen . Enough empirical evidence ... not anecdote or hearsay ... for me to want investigate ... personally. So, I eased into it. Over the years there have been enough issues dealt with ... some where MD advice failed ... that I have been satisfied with the efficacy. Don't need any more convincing ... no scientific study, no double blind study, no control groups. I'm a believer ... no independent reproducible peer reviewed evidence based proof needed. Just saying.

Yep. Saw how effective it was for my wifes back issue. Same year started seeing same acupuncturist/herbalist. Key is to use it in conjuction with reasonably good lifestyle habits ... exercise, qigong, etc.

No doubt here. In since mid-80s.

@wandelaar Good comparison! Suggests I should go back and re-read The Yellow Emperor's Classic.

I also liked ZP's explanation ... and Marblehead's comment above seems to fine tune it. Intuition has always been a big part of my process ... how I navigate life. I've often thought of it as the impulse that initiates an idea which can become an object of thought ... but not always, at least not immediately, as noted. The idea is usually just tucked away for later reflection. Immediately proceeding to thought often causes the original idea to be forgotten. I don't know where intuition comes from exactly or how it's triggered but it seems to be, as noted above, a non-conscious place. I have often thought that information gathered in is subconsciously being worked on ... and can emerge as an intuitive idea in the conscious. I just know thay intuitions are more often right than not ... maybe almost always right ... and should never be ignored or blown off. Now, the notion of intent being analogous to intuition is something I have not considered before. So, I am grateful for that being pointed out . (Thanks, ZP!) It seems to fit in nicely with my concept of intuition. Where does it emerge from? What triggers it? Should the idea that intent gave rise to be tucked away for later reflection? At what point do I decide to apply will power to the idea of intent? Provides a lot to ruminate on.

Really?! Thought everyone knew Manhattan Transfer. They were really big in early 70's ... still going. Sang mostly jazzed up pop standards. Outstanding jazz vocals. Fun stuff. Joe Bob says check em out.

Re: Skyliners Reminded me of Manhattan Transfer because it seemed a little jazzy over doo wop. MT while decidedly jazz vocal did reach into doo wop at least once.

Fa Xin's comment seems most practical. Think you have to consider what you hope to get out of it. Being healthy is an admirable goal. I can attest to the benefit of movement and massaging of organs and breathing. This goes along with the traditional chinese medical model. Qi plays a significant role in that model. Qigong of any kind can contribute greatly to ones wellbeing. But the point being in gong ... effort over time. There is no magic in particular postures or movments, beyond that a set is complete and balanced and applied consistently over time. Awareness of qi is important but not something that one has to strive mightily for, for health purposes. It is said in taiji ... which can be considered a qigong ... that the qi leads movement and the mind leads the qi. That is, the qi goes where the mind is. Martial implications aside, there is good practical advice in that notion. There is value in developing awareness of the body. Anything you can do to enable smooth qi flow throughout the body can enhance health. Relaxing, loosening the joints, movement, mental awareness of the flow of qi (or not) can help. Part of developing mental awareness has to do with quieting the mind so that subtle feelings of qi flow can be noticed. That is where meditative aspects of qigong come into play. For example, zhan zhuang practices are particulary helpful in this respect. Just my observations based on my own experience.

Not that deep into alchemy ... just a passing interest as part of the broader scope of daoism. So, I too would like to here how the alchemists among us read that. Still ... my delvings have led me understand that a heart-mind that is not calm (ordered?) is subject to being driven by desires and obsessions, whether they be real or imagined (ghosts? ... or more appropriately, what they portend.). Such a state then feeds on itself and ones sense of reality spins out of control. There is probably a better explanation. I would not impose any sense on altruism on the daoist solution to the duke's problem ... just a sense for practicality. I just found the politic here interesting. After all, the duke appears to be next in succession ... at least according to Legge ... it's not too difficult a leap to find ministers (daoist or legalist) jockeying for position.

(Been out of pocket a few days.) Yes, good exchange of ideas. One thing I would add ... I read a couple of alternative translations of this passage. Legge, in footnotes suggests that traditionally ... "... ghostly sprites are [considered] the fruit of disordered mind." So, one minister dismisses the notion out of hand (Your servant sees nothing) ... perhaps even out of fear of appearing disordered himself ... but somewhat cynically. While another recognizes the disorder and provides an explanation that calms the dukes mind. Interesting politic.

Yeah, I assumed as much. Don't have a copy of Mair but a quick review of Watson suggested a Mair spin. Did he in footnotes or other commentary explain his use of nonsensical terms for the ghosts ... is it a fair interpretation of their names? Seems to trivialize the significance of ghosts in Chinese belief system and thereby making the Duke seem foolish. Which in turn reduces the story the level of a fairytale and makes the whole thing trivial. Any any serious message may be lost in the shuffle.

I dunno. Back in the day of cassette tapes, I would grab a bottle of my favorite beverage spread out all the vinyl on the floor and spend 3-4 hours recording my playlist on cassette. Lotta fun.

So, what is the illness the duke had? He was fearful over an apparition he saw that his companion had not seen. His companion calmed him by telling him that that particular kind of ghost only appears to one destined to become the ruler. So, rather being a threatening omen, it's a good omen. Oh, well, wthat's different. What's with the nonsensical names given to the various ghosts?

Love Doo Wop. Just makes me smile ... and wanna sing ... but I dont usually inflict that on the general pubilc ... just family ... grandchildren laugh at me ... but I don't care. One of my favorites ...

You found the same reference from dawei that ultimately prompted me to buy it, although it was already on my list. Reids book is less alchemical than Pregadio. Reid focuses on similarities of early daoist writings, while Pregadio does a lot in terms of breaking down a lot of mystical references. I'm not well read enough or practiced enough to answer the later question.

Wandelaar, during the last year, I had resolved to look into other writings other than Laozi in order to expand my understanding of daoism. I also have had an interest in the Yijing, which I also consider to be daoist, fully aware that there are those who will argue that. Through various articles, blogs and websites, I was ultimately led to two books which I can recommend. First and foremost is The Thread of Dao by Dan G Reid. This book provides an excellent overview of what he calls proto-daoist writings, particulary the Guanzi texts. In translating the Guanzi texts he draws frequent comparison to Laozi and to lesser extent Zhuangzi. This book allowed me to view Laozi in the context of a broader scope of daoist activity and provided the ability to see deeper into the meaning of Laozi and Zhuangzi. Second is The Seal of The Unity of the Three by Fabrizio Pregadio. This book which refers more to the Yijing than Laozi is a translation of the Cantong qi. While usually considered to be a Neidan text, Pregadio demonstrates how it can be more generally viewed as a text that brings a unified understanding of cosmoslogy, daoism and neidan. Again, in the translation, frequent comparison is drawn to the more familiar Yijing and to lesser extent Laozi. Like you, my interest in alchemy has been marginal. So, if I was going to devote time to reading other writings, I wanted to pick ones that gave me the bigest bang for the buck. These two books filled the bill. I have to say, I firmly believe that when the time is ripe ... that is, when the person is ready ... the universe conspires to provide one with what is needed for the next step. That was the case with me having stumbled on these two books. I am sure there are other writings ... and, I am sure there are others on this site more qualified than I to make recommendations. However, I think these two books can be as useful to you as they have been for me.

I fear we may be talking about two different things in terms of room for interpretation. I think in writing effectively a writer may make certain assumptions about his audience ... their general level of understanding based on literacy, education, cultural background, etc. With those assumptions in mind the writer is free to express himself with some assurance his writing will be understood. Again, he will use the devices cited above. Is this deliberate, yes. Is there room for interpretation, within some limits, probably. Again, within the assumed ability of the audience. Can Laozi have known that two thousand years later readers from a far removed culture would get the message. Probably not. On the other hand, may we assume that because Laozi was not exhaustively explicit in his message ... choosing to write volumes to make a point ... that we may attribute to him and the message anything we want. I don't think so. Somewhere between these is the wiggle room. Ultimately, it is up to each of us to recieve the message, do the best we can to understand it and decide if it has meaning for us. Worst case ... he scribbled down a few vague notes so the guard at the pass would let him by.

Oh, absolutely! There are probably several reasons. 1. Poetic license. Laozi (DDJ) has a poetic flow to it ... in spite of what various translators have done with it. Any good writer knows that you can express more with allegory and metaphor that with plain words. Some things are best left unsaid or incomplete to allow the reader to discover the meaning. Such discoveries stick in the mind better. 2. Cultural idiomatic symbolism. Every culture has idiomatic phrases that convey a meaning without actually referring explicitly to the meaning. No doubt some of these images were used in Laozi. For example: Straw dogs. If you were not familiar with the sacrificial context you would not understand what is meant by being treated as a straw dog. 3. Alchemical symbolism. Early taoist tradition included alchemy. Originally the language was quite literal. After the mixing of various elements and substances was given up, the terms took on symbolic meaning. Granted there is not a lot of this in Laozi but some interesting interpretations of Laozi can be uncovered if you compare to early Neidan texts. Writers like Cleary, Reid and Pregadio have done some pretty good comparative work along these line. Check out Reid's Ho-Shang Kung Commentary. Thats why its important to know the translator ... his background, education and which veins of daoist traditions he/she follows or has interest it.

@wandelaar Don't disagree with you at all. Freedom of the press is vital to a healthy open society. As consumers of information we just need to look at news sources with a critical eye ... ask questions ... and have civil discussions.

Everything you say is true ... but we are learning that everything that is published may not be worthy of our consideration. We have to ask ourselves how credible/responsible are the news sources? Is the Inquirer/Tattler more reliable than the Times/Post? Are we getting any in depth analysis and understanding or just surface information in the form of "facts"? What is their agenda? Are they left, right or balanced? Is it fostering a them vs us view? What is the emotional content? Is the language inflamatory? Is it trying to appeal our sense of morality and rightiousness? Is it malicious and defamatory to a particular person or view? How much of what we think we know is being shaped by social media where there are no controls over the content? A place where anything and everything is said without any verification? How conscious are we of attempts to manipulate our opinions? Is there even any basis to our opinions? What's the difference between no news and a glut of "news" where we can no longer tell who's who, what's what or what of it? Ok, now I'll get down off my soap box. Sorry for the rant.

One thing about stories/parables/allegories is that we know ... or should know ... that they should not be taken too seriously. They are meant to allow room for interpretation. They suggest possibilities that should be considered and reflected on. The cave story suggests that there may be limits to our knowledge and understanding that we are not aware of and do not fully appreciate. That we can become complacent in our "reality". But conditions can change and when the time is right our world view can change and we can gain a different "reality". We need to be cautious of facts. Over-reliance on facts helps keep us locked into a view that keeps us from seeing a new reality and its possibilities. At one time it was a fact that the earth is flat, that the sun revolved around the earth.

...and lest we forget the ladies ... Mary Black, Roisin O ... and my personal favorite Maighread Ni Dhomhnaill.

Whoa! Don't get me started. The Dubliners, Planxty, Bothy Band, Tannahill Weavers ... Andy M Stuart, Jim McCann, Christy Moore, Paul Brady, Andy Irvine ... the list goes on and on. Here is one of my favorites.

Funny you should post Squeez Box. I have had this song buzzing around in my head of and on this week.

Not much commentary on this. Seems to be about misplaced sense of quality in living. Clearly, the porkers ... now there's a word for you ... would prefer to be left to their own devices if they knew what the ultimante end was going to be. But it appears that the nature of official is to desire the trappings of his office when going to his end. Is that the nature of officialdom? DDJ44 comes to mind ... Fame or one's own self, which does one love more? One's own self or material goods, which has more worth? Loss (of self) or possession (of goods), which is the greater evil?