tsa

Hello, I'm a new member who is intersted in Eastern Philosophy. I am also intersted in researching the special ablities of many of the advanced taoist masters. Thanks, tsa

Thanks guys. I was starting to think I was by far the minority on this one. I was going to mention the tablecloth too on the one with the old man. If you watch it over and over, you can actually see the tablecloth move before the effect happens. My guess is that if he was made to do this stuff on the solid ground and no tablecloth, then he would not be able to do these things. Good to question the setup and the preexisting conditions - good critical thinking.

All good points. Thanks for sharing. I guess there are many places in this discussion where philosophical labels overlap. At any rate, thank you for your insights I would be glad to hear any more you have in the future. Also, as far as the edit thing goes... I've made a few edits to my posts; all of them were right after I posted them. A couple edits were for spelling errors - to which I am prone. One edit was because my browser freaked out when I was trying to reply to a different post and it kept putting it under another one, so I deleted it out, but it kept happening, so I just left it. Probably user (me) error. And once I edited a post for content because the post sounded too judgmental, which was not my intention. Please forgive me for these edits. I'll try to get them right the first time, or make a second post.

- If they did it scientifically, then people would believe it. - Why would a master NOT want their teachings to be heard throughout the world? Why would they only let a few people in on the superpower, if they themselves are not masters? - I don't believe Jesus walked on water either. I would ask for proof. - Although amazing, I don't consider drying sheets supernatural. - The Indian levitation stuff has been widely debunked. In fact, these guys travel around India exposing them: http://humanists.net/avijit/prabir/sra.htm

What have you seen this Master do that appeared to be super? As far as I'm concerned, will power is not supernatural. What I am looking for is stuff like flying, being able to boil water with the mind, etc. That sort of thing. Also, as far as I know physics still apply to ants as well as humans. The scale may be different, but there are no loopholes in physics that I've heard of. If you've heard something different, please share. Just to bring everybody up to date on this one. I've sent an email, got a reply, sent one back and I am still waiting for a second response. I'll keep you posted if I receive one... --------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't understand. Why do you promote them in your book description? Do you know of any of these gongfu masters who have these abilities? Have you witnessed them yourself? Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: Re: White Skeleton Meditation Superpowers I'm sorry but we don't discuss such matters so as not to encourage them. We simply mention that MANY forms of gongfu (kungfu) result from meditation/cultivation efforts. Lots of people have such powers but they are just gongfu, not the Tao. > Hello, > > In the book you sell entitled White Skeleton Meditation, > (http://www.meditationexpert.com/Skeleton.htm) you say that if you > cultivate your body's chi channels and jing-chi-shen complex this will > "commonly gives rise to superpowers." Could I please ask you to > define these superpowers and if you have experienced them yourself, or > know if anybody who has? > > Also, in your other spiritual practices, have you seen anybody with > supernatural abilities? If so, what were they? > > I am interested in the wonders of Eastern Philosophy and would like to > find out more. > > Thanks

I have never heard of a scientifically documented case of somebody who is able to disapear. Do you have experiance with this? Proof? If not, then why do you believe this is possible? I totally disagree. Critical thinking, at lest from a scientific point of view, is about removing oneself and allowing the tests and observations to speak for themselves, regardless of the scientist's beliefs (at least if done correctly). If the test is designed correctly and the effect is observed, then the scientist would have to concede that the effect is valid. This gives way to much more freedom of mind then the close mindedness of a Believer because all things remain possible until proven otherwise. I agree the human body is great. Millions of years of evolution under the right conditions have made it so. Every cause has an effect, which is in turn a cause of the next effect, and so forth. Through this chain of cause and effect you can go all the way back to the beginning of the universe. Though there may be many amazing things that happen in nature, they happen for a reason. If this were not the case, then the world would be so unpredictable that life would not be able to exist.

This is another cop out. If these masters have a lack of ego, then why would they keep their powers a secret? What would they be afraid of? If it is "natural" then it shouldn't hurt to reveal these powers to the masses. Don't you think it's strange that there isn't one scientifically documented case of these powers considering how many people have lived? Have you witnessed any of these powers? If so, please share.

Quantum mechanics seems to be the reason for just about anyting to happen. Even if the day comes where we can put our hands though tables, then everybody will be able to do it, and it will have nothing to do with any super abilities.

I can imagine he would, but that would be a cop out.

What superpowers does he say can be done, and does he say he knows people who can do them?

Thanks for the post. This Bill Bodri person is exactly the type of person that can help us. If anybody knows somebody that can demonstrate these supernatural abilities, then it's this guy. Says it right on his website as a discription of one of his books: http://www.meditationexpert.com/Skeleton.htm "The problem with most meditation practices is that they don't help you calm your mind. With the white skeleton visualization method, you are forced to train your mind to reach one-pointed concentration, and at the same time you are also cultivating your body's chi channels and jing-chi-shen complex. That's why this method commonly gives rise to superpowers while transforming your physical body for the spiritual path." I'll send an email.

I would also like to add about what's so great about this article is that the science does not take anything away from the amazing level these monks have developed their mind/body control, but seeks to share it with the rest of the world, hopefully for everybody's benefit. Wonder and awe are what makes living worth while, just as long as it does not make us blind.

Good article! Thanks for sharing. I have seen a show about this on TV and have read a few things. I have no doubt that this is entirely legitimate and explainable by science. My belief is that this is not under the realm of the supernatural, but rather the scientific process at work investigating the mind body relationship. I do believe it is more proof of the many benefits of meditation. Also check out some of the experiments done by Richard Davidson of University of Wisconsin - Madison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_J._Davidson

Thank Michael. This is a perfect example of the type of thing I'm looking for, something that is testable. Now to test it correctly, you would need to cook as much spare rice as possible in the same container, sterilize your jars, have more then one set of jars for the good and bad rice and keep them under the exact same conditions. You should also have a 3rd party judge who has no knowledge of the experiment. See if they can identify the good rice when presented in a number of random, unlabeled containers. The bigger the number of tests and number of judges, the better. And you should record the entire process. I would be super interested in your results. Of course you might not want to do all this, so I guess you can just try the test yourself and see what you think. This example illustrates well the type of thing I'm thinking of, though I would really like to apply these same reasonable tests to a person who claims they can do something supernatural.

I could care less about your personal squabbles. Keep it out of my thread. These comments only succeed in deluding the conversation, which is believe the purpose of these forums is to counteract.

Was that aimed at me or Wayfarer64, whom you quoted?

Science does not claim to be. The process of postulation, testing and revision is built into the scientific method. Has science observed and explained every possible phenomenon? No. But I'm not talking about stuff that can't be measured. I'm talking about cold hard proof of some of these supernatural powers. I'm 100% certain that science can come up with a way to satisfy any skeptic to show that some of these events have either occurred or not, such as fire, flying, etc. - see previous posts. Which books would you have me throw out? I'm pretty happy with what science has given us. Modern medicine, though not perfect, is pretty darn good. Modern transportation has allowed for the free flow of thoughts and ideas on a global scale. And I need not mention the wonders of the internet (though I just did).

I believe the two endeavors are not mutually exclusive. In fact, I believe they are completely intertwinded.

Because I am searching for Truth and I would like to aid others in this search in one of two ways: 1) by verifying with scientific proof that these powers are real, then it breaks down the barriers for all people to see that these powers are legitimate and can/should be cultivated for the betterment of mankind, or 2) exposing charlatans for what they are, therefore, not allowing them to mislead vulnerable practitioners down a path that will hinder their development. Don't you think these things are important? What would be the harm of verifying these claims scientifically? Is this something to be feared? If you have experiance with these powers, then please share. Anybody can jump in here with comments.