Aetherous

23 minutes ago, freeform said:

My primary teachers are from the Longmen lineage.

Do you want to talk about what was involved with getting into that? Only a few people here at most are involved with legitimate Daoist lineages.

23 minutes ago, freeform said:

My practice is quite full on at the moment. I do Qi Gong/ Nei Gong - moving and standing. I do Dao Yin and I do sitting practice daily. I practice generally between 2 and 4hrs daily

Impressive. I used to be doing that amount of time each day, then luckily the instruction had it shorten down to 30 mins - 1 hour daily.

As for myself...

There is some private instruction which is solely for spiritual development; I've stuck with it daily since 2012, because the results are obvious and the philosophy behind it makes sense. I could be a better student/practitioner, but I'm not the worst.

Learned Kunlun back in the day (took the old facilitator course, prior to it being an apprentice course...and didn't attend the yearly continuing education to maintain my name on their site), and still sometimes do various practices from that, mostly the Kunlun Method. I find it fascinating and mysterious. One of the most powerful things out there. And I have nostalgia about the trainings I attended, as well as sharing it with a couple of other people.

I'm very undisciplined with the Tara's Triple Excellence online program, but I apply some of the teachings from time to time. It has helped me turn enemies into dear friends. I only got to part way through the Second Excellence course...but it is super helpful for understanding Tibetan Buddhism, especially on an experiential level. When my life is slightly less busy, I plan on progressing further in the program, even though it's not my primary practice. An opportunity hasn't arisen for me to attend the lineage's Tara empowerments or teachings in person, but I think doing so would be important when getting to the Third Excellence, which has the vajrayana and dzogchen stuff.

And finally, there are things that I incorporate into any path in order to make it work better. A couple of the best things in my experience: short periods (like five minutes) of calm abiding meditation using things in nature as the objects of meditation truly makes the mind function in a healthier way, and eating lighter/chewing food until liquified (because having bogged down digestion is a major problem when doing spiritual or energetic practices). Also, I think that simply exercising in a moderate way on most days is essential...an example of "moderate" would be doing a medium difficulty hike through forest trails for an hour or two. In terms of "semen retention", I have found through my experience that it's important to some extent...I think a simple rule of thumb is to divide our age by 10, and that gives us the number of days it would be best to wait in between. There are probably lots of other little tricks I add into my cultivation, but they're not coming to mind right now.

7 hours ago, freeform said:

Rather than what practices are we doing, we talk about what specific area we’re working on...

We can talk about that, too.

I made this thread because I have a feeling (just a feeling, nothing to back it up) that many new members here don't have a practice.

Learning from teachers in the spiritual marketplace (or outside of it), gaining some experiences, exploring what systems and ideas are out there, having discipline to maintain a daily regimen...everyone should be doing these things.

In addition to saying what we do, we can add what we're hoping to accomplish with it, like you suggested. Or however people want to answer the thread.

What's everyone doing these days?

Any new stuff on the spiritual marketplace? Any stuff that isn't talked about often? Any new teachers out there?

Does anyone here not have a practice?

Freeform had some great advice there.

Also, it's not good to diagnose yourself with Chinese Medicine. I would hazard a guess that your issue isn't kidney essence deficiency.

Very interesting; welcome!

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-etymology-of-the-word-human

11 hours ago, LateStart said:

Otoh Kunlun practice says don't ground since leakage is not good.

I've found this to be very true during many practices; even ones which aren't Kunlun, but are from other systems (despite those systems instructing that it's good to earth during their practices...I didn't find that to be good advice at all - it counterintuitively led me to feel a lot more ungrounded). Although there are other practices that seem to depend on the earth, or on dew in the morning on grass, which sometimes are fine. Besides the loss of kidney qi, which we could think of as being like the loss of warmth from the body when in contact with the earth...sometimes if the ground we're on is cold, it can draw that coldness into the channels, and cause problems. I experienced that, by having a sharp pain in my ankle after practicing on the bare ground one night, which lasted for many years.

So, see how it makes you feel over a long time of experimenting, and you'll have learned a thing or two.

Our channels become wide open during these types of practices, so that outer things can end up getting in which we don't want, and our qi can leave more easily, making us become less embodied and depleted.

But sometimes we do want to connect with certain outer things, like having the sun touch our skin in the morning, or walking on pure morning dew on grass. Some things are good. Some practices may benefit from you touching the earth.

...oh also, I like to call touching the earth without a barrier "earthing", and I prefer to think of grounding as anything we do that makes us feel more normal (less "ungrounded"...less airy, dizzy, disembodied, delusional, abnormal, etc). "Earthing" doesn't necessarily "ground" us.

On 12/23/2018 at 11:04 AM, Aetherous said:

making omeletes

So I was moderately successful at that, but found out that I prefer making "English scrambled eggs" instead of the classic French omelette. It doesn't require any of the skill of trying to make some perfectly shaped thing, but still contains all of the custardy goodness. I learned from this video:

I make mine slightly less runny than he does, but still definitely not solidified. I prefer using quite a bit of curly parsley, or chives, chopped finely into it. Regular flat parsley makes eggs taste fishy, IME, but curly parsley is great. On a slice of toast like in the video...it's become my go-to breakfast.

It seems to me like Happy Egg Co yolks look the best, in terms of being more yellow. Vital Farms is another trustworthy brand, but doesn't have that deep of a yellow.

...

And in other news, this guy has a superiorly impressive hummus recipe. I really have to try making this.

I also like how this guy puts ground sumac and cumin, and a piece of mint on top:
 

I've found that Lucini is quite a good olive oil. This is a great video showing their farms, and production:

51 minutes ago, Jadespear said:

... back to not mis-translating... it's not possible to even do that, because the original messages were mis-translated and re-interpreted from the hellenist jews to the ptomely greeks... the greeks wrote the bible with a large influence from their culture, and from the egyptians...( egypt, and egyptians are greek words...).  

This brings up a good point - looking at who most likely authored which books.

I think in some cases for the New Testament, the original authors wrote in Greek (they knew the language)...it wasn't taken from another language (such as Galilean Aramiac) and recorded again into Greek by other people besides the authors. Or maybe sometimes it was...but not for every book of the New Testament.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, or refer to any books specifically if info differs between them. This aspect isn't something I've researched at all...but it's a good point.

Ever since hearing "Fly fly my sadness", which most people here have probably heard before, I've loved that style of female singers. On that song they were called Angelite. Elsewhere they're called "Bulgarian voices", among other names.

This linked song didn't impress me greatly at first, but hearing it over a few days, I really have gotten into it:
 

https://youtu.be/W72E3_MuJ0M

48 minutes ago, freeform said:

I wonder whether too much blood nourishing without cultivation or at least physical exercise might be too stagnating?

Blood itself, in Chinese Medicine, doesn't cause stagnation (it's a "vital substance" in TCM, and is not a "pathogenic factor"), although it can stagnate for one reason or another and then be called "blood stasis"; I haven't heard of this ever being from having an abundance of it. I think the blood "is the mother of" qi, which then naturally moves the blood, so having more of it is a good thing...it would be more so when a person is blood deficient that the blood would stagnate, because the person would lack the qi to appropriately move the decreased amount of blood they have. I guess we could think of it similarly to how a creek trickles along slowly (the water is slightly more stagnant) compared to a full and rushing river.

If someone ever were to use the term "blood excess", it would be referring to things like "heat in the blood" or "cold" causing the blood to stagnate... but the physiological substance of blood isn't the problem, so in terms of amounts of blood being negative, I think there's only "blood deficiency" as a pathological issue. With pure blood, the more the merrier...in fact, with full blood, our jing is protected.

Often times, we find the blood is deficient when there's also blood stasis, at the same time...this can sometimes be because both patterns are truly simultaneously present (it's definitely the case where someone had a traumatic injury that caused bruising, which is blood stasis, while they are also a full time medical student whose blood is constantly being depleted from studying too much)...or it can be because, of course, when a normal level of blood is stuck in one place it's not abundant in another place and appears deficient there. I also mentioned in the first paragraph of this post about how blood deficiency can lead to the blood stagnating.

The potential byproducts of blood nourishing herbs, for instance dampness and phlegm, definitely cause stagnation. It's good to have really clean digestion so that our bodies can handle the strength of herbs.

31 minutes ago, freeform said:

That’s certainly true for most.

 

For people who’re heavily involved in the internal arts you generally need a lot more blood nourishing than normal. It’s extra gas in the tank.

I can totally see that as true. And I think there's nothing wrong with having an abundance of blood.

I've personally found pork to nourish the blood best of all the meats. This was tested when I was a student, where I over studied, and got very strong symptoms of blood deficiency...and when having pork patties in my diet as part of breakfast sandwiches, the symptoms (of liver and heart blood deficiency) went away. Beef, chicken, eggs, etc, didn't really have a noticeable effect for me, but maybe beef if eaten as a steak is good for some reason...ground beef not really. Just my experience.

There are also blood nourishing herbs, which practitioners can help you with. Herbs are stronger than foods, both for positive effects and negative ones, so it's helpful to have a clean diet in the first place so that the nourishing herbs don't lead to phlegm, dampness, and food stagnation. Important to chew foods fully, too. If adding herbs to your foods, as they do sometimes in Chinese culture, I think adding some dang gui (angelica slices) to things like chicken soup isn't a bad idea, but shu di huang (prepared rehmannia, or any kind of it that looks black) is something that's overused even by TCM practitioners...it's super cloying, to the point where some great Chinese practitioners have said that it causes all other herbs to not work properly.

And the most important thing: avoid the things that damage the blood. For instance, "too much looking" damages the blood. I think this would also include "too much thinking", such as overstudying, etc. Staying up late at night, I think, damages the blood...so going to bed earlier and having good sleep is good. Staying hydrated to some extent will help maintain blood levels (you're dehydrated if you experience thirst, or if your pee is anything more than very light yellow).

Think of it like this: if there's a hole in your garden hose, less water will come out of the end because it'll be leaking out of the hole. You can add more water into the hose by turning it up, but that'll just cause more to leave the hole (such as increasing blood through herbs). Alternatively, you can plug the hole completely so that the water isn't leaking out of the side of the hose (addressing the actual cause of the blood deficiency). So, the "hole" isn't a hole in your arteries or something, but is a metaphor for whatever is decreasing the blood. Take care of what's decreasing it, and really you don't even need to "turn up the faucet" or eat meat or take blood nourishing herbs...it'll go back to normal levels, because it won't be getting decreased through lifestyle.

Edited to add: also, look up what the hun (the spirit of the liver) does. For instance, planning ahead, imagination, daydreaming (or we could assume, spirit traveling), insight, etc. I think those things use up our blood to an extent, more or less...whereas basically being embodied and not thinking, and not looking outward so much, doesn't drain the blood.

47 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Sometimes you go too far.

Thanks, I accept you as well.

It's my view that none of us go far enough when it comes to this topic.

I may end up taking a break, so as to let others have more breathing room so they can feel better speaking their minds...which perhaps would give you some relief. But for the time being, I've had incredibly important things to share here.

8 hours ago, thelerner said:

right, if they murdered a 12 year old, its not a hard decision, I'd want them locked up.

So, that's an easy lock em up decision for you. Because it's murder, and you can't have someone murdering other people out there.

8 hours ago, thelerner said:

If they were pregnant, considered it, weighed there options carefully and decided to have an abortion, I'd be sorry, recognize it as sad, but wouldn't judge them or call them a murderer.  I wouldn't want them to go to prison for years because of it. I wouldn't think they were horrible, unethical woman.

That's how you view it...but consider for a second that perhaps approximately half of our US population views it differently, myself included. We view the fetus to be just as much of a human being as a 12 year old. We think it's just as bad, and perhaps even worse (due to the innocence involved) when the fetus is murdered...and we do consider it murder, since it's a premeditated taking of a human life. We know it's a human life, not only due to how it looks after a certain stage of development, but also because it has its own heartbeat at 6 weeks, which only living human beings have. We know it's a human life, because if nature is left to take its course and not interfered with violently, that fetus pops out as a baby and lives independently as a fully developed human.

You view abortion differently than this, because we've been in a culture that views it differently. Our Supreme Court arbitrarily defined that a human life is only a person at a pretty random stage of its development. We've gotten used to not thinking about this issue, and just go with the flow of society. Our team (I refer to your team, liberals) have certain slogans that have the effect of causing us to not think and question...such as insisting that it's all about "women" and "healthcare". Obviously if you speak against it, you're speaking against women...and then are shunned and scolded. How could you try to infringe on someone's right to "healthcare"?!

Just like how in a tribe that hunts people from other tribes and eats them in order to gain their power (cannibalism)...us Americans can look down upon that, because we know that such a thing is wrong and disturbed, and even causes disease for the one who wins and eats. But the person in the tribe grew up with that way of life, and thinks it's not wrong at all. They truly feel and believe differently than us Americans. They think nothing (ethically speaking) of that person dying, nor of the eating of the human flesh. They're not yet enlightened, just like our society is not yet enlightened (due to apathy and ignorance) on the subject of abortion.

Apathy and ignorance looks like: maintaining one's ideological position, despite evidence for a more scientific/rational/ethical position being presented. The points being presented aren't addressed by the apathetic, or if they are addressed, it's not done with full honesty.

To change one's mind would be too much of a shock for most people in this culture, which has been programmed to believe and feel the way that it does. Because then you'd become one of the bad guys, who the culture mocks/doesn't understand/fears. You'd be lumped into the same category as rednecks, racists, Christians, etc.

You'd become one of the rational ones.

...to be clear, I'm not calling you names like, "you're irrational". But I think I'm presenting a perspective which is quite decisive, and can cut through abortionist programming.

8 hours ago, thelerner said:

I take it, you'd consider them killers, treat them as such and want to see them locked up for years.

If abortion were made illegal, and someone did it, I think they'd be a criminal and should be prevented from continuing to do that...perhaps similar to someone who committed manslaughter or murder. I view each baby as a human with the right to life, which isn't yet able to speak up for itself and declare that it wants the be alive, and which can't ask others to stop the mother from killing it. Perhaps, being fully conscious, it wants to.

Also...in the case of my own daughter (don't have one yet) or friend murdering a 12 year old. I would think they should be locked up, but of course the original question is meant to pull at the heart strings, because it's someone close to us. Fathers want to protect their daughters, and will do almost anything (even some, to the point of obscuring their loved one's crimes). For me personally, I'm the same way with friends, and am incredibly forgiving of all kinds of faults, due to how much I care for them. It would honestly be very hard to "want" my friend or loved one to be locked up, despite what they did being horrendous and worthy of imprisonment.

Just as it'd be hard to "want" a loved one or friend who committed an abortion to be imprisoned for it, in the case of it being criminalized.

9 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

We are all working our our way through this so try to be a bit nicer.

That was me trying my best. I hope you can come to accept me as I am, but if you can't, I hope we can at least focus on the topic moreso than derailing the thread with personal quibbles.

4 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I would like to ask you to reconsider this statement.  Your Kind is also you and me.

I'm not one of the people who is pro-abortion, and especially not one who laughs or jokes about it, or who attempts to keep expanding the definition of it even into childhood while touting oneself as an empathetic person...so I'm not one of their kind.

I wasn't saying Luke isn't a human being, which we all are.

5 hours ago, Jadespear said:

no information to really "develop" oneself with

It seems to me like the Way that Jesus taught, and then the apostles expounded upon, which references the Old Testament, presents a lot of ways for us to develop ourselves. It's primarily a matter of character development, which we don't find in other religious traditions.

To some, it might seem like developing oneself on a level of character and virtue isn't so interesting. Where's the meditation? Where are the rituals? Why don't we get to the astral realm, and read the akashic records? Where are the prayer beads and the mantras? But developing oneself as a good person is the gateway to the occult mysteries. It is literally info on how to "develop oneself", and is "cultivation"...as opposed to sharing various meditation methods, which don't necessarily "develop oneself".

Besides that, unofficially there are a couple of meditations one could do from the Bible. One of them is "be still and know that I am God". Another is the Our Father prayer that Jesus taught...and he also gave the instruction to practice it while alone, or locked in one's closet, as opposed to doing it publicly.

Even simply reading the Bible, such as the Psalms, is a meditation method (called Lectio Divina). There was a forum member here, who once spoke of a method called "message qigong", where the vibration of various words has an effect on the subtle energies of the body as well as the mind. For instance, meditating on the word "peace" would have a different effect than meditating on the word "tranquility".

Well, he didn't say this, but reading scripture is the same thing as that, and the words themselves change who we are...besides the conveyance of the meaning of those words, and when things don't make sense (such as two different sections seeming to contradict), the insight that is drawn out naturally as a result of the intellectual conflict and lack of resolution.

21 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Aetherous...Aetherous...Aetherous...I get that they don´t seem funny to you, but the videos posted above are meant to be humorous.  The Michelle Wolf piece is obviously meant to get laughs.  She´s being a comedian.  Not, perhaps, a comedian to your taste but a comedian nevertheless.  The video of the abortion doctor is just a guy goofing off, blowing off steam.  He´s probably sick and tired of those self-righteous types picketing his workplace and is deliberately provoking them to have a little fun.  

 

Ya gotta take these things in context.  Or not I guess.  But if you don´t take them in context you´re more likely to misinterpret the message.

Abortion...is humorous to some people. Such as the comedian and the crowd laughing and clapping.

This same thing which thelerner said is "a hard subject, painful".

The tearing of limbs of the most innocent human being, which is then sold to companies for a profit...is a laughing matter to your kind.

42 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

It´s just that for one reason or another sometimes those lesser-of-two-evil early abortions don´t happen and the only choice is a late-term abortion or none at all.  In this circumstance, I´m not willing to tell a woman that she can´t have an abortion she wants to have.

Well, you don't have to be willing, and you can go sit on the fence. I'm certainly willing, and can put up with all kinds of nonsense about "men can't tell women what to do" etc, in order to defend the life that's at stake.

Also - your position here definitely negates your statement that "the early the better" when it comes to abortions. I think you were just trying to sound like a good person when you said that, in order to appease other people who might judge you...but in fact, you don't believe "the earlier the better".

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

When it comes to abortion, everybody thinks the earlier the better.  Don´t you think?  There´s not an abortion doctor in the country who thinks there should be more late-term abortions and less early-term ones.  Do you imagine that liberal pro-choice folks are rubbing their hands with sadistic glee at the thought of near-birth abortions?  I can assure you they are not.

I can assure you, that's constantly happening; I've seen numerous liberals talking like that. Since it's the position their team chooses, they dissociate from the reality of what's happening with it, and go to ideological extremes.

Although it's not about the late term abortions, here's an example of the "sadistic glee":
 

Here's another example of sadistic glee: 
 

I am 100% certain that under the right social conditions, you would behave the same way, since it's apparent that it hasn't been your belief that a fetus is a human life.

The Huangdi neijing chapter 2 says:
 

Quote

"Go to rest late at night and rise early.
Move through the courtyard with long strides.
Dishevel the hair and relax the physical appearance, thereby cause the mind [to orient itself on] life.
Give life and do not kill.
Give and do not take.
Reward and do not punish.

This is correspondence with the qi of spring and it is the Way to nourish life."

- Unschuld's translation

So getting up early, going for short walks, being relaxed and loose, thinking on life and living things, abstaining from killing or doing severe things, being generous rather than greedy, and being rewarding or even merciful rather than wrathful. Basically, getting in line with the principle of life itself.

We should follow heaven and earth, which at this time (if we live in nature) cause all things around us to gradually come to life. So we should also behave that way, in order to live in line with the seasons.

Furthermore, the Jin gui yao lue says:
 

Quote

"In Spring, don't allow dead qi to enter the Liver (don't eat animal products) because it might damage the hun."

- Sabine Wilms' translation (or it might be my rewording of her translation for my notes)

So, along with "do not kill" comes the idea not to ingest dead foods.

Good time to eat lots of veggies, which are living foods, and perhaps avoid or cut down on meat. Maybe more raw foods if tolerable. Good time to make and eat some sprouts, which are similar to the phase of spring where things are just sprouting out of the ground or budding on the trees (as opposed to summer, when there's blossoming and fruiting, or autumn when things are past the point of maturity and will begin to wither). Sprouts are something that can help clean our digestive system of food that's been stagnant in there. Veggies in general are cleansing, too.

...
 

In the Chinese solar calendar, we're just now past the midway point of spring (which was the equinox)...as opposed to the Western way of looking at things, which states that spring just started on the equinox. These old admonitions apply to that solar calendar. See this site and look at the "Chinese 24 Seasons Calendar", and note that it says that Chinese summer begins, or spring ends, on May 6th.

Also, we should look at the entire year like this: at summer solstice is the greatest amount of yang or life. At winter solstice is the least, and yin is the strongest. Spring and autumn equinoxes are like life increasing while yin and yang are balanced, and life decreasing while yin and yang are balanced, respectively.

So from a day or two ago when there was the spring equinox, up until the summer solstice, we're in the best time for the increasing of the life principle. We're also at a time right now when things are relatively balanced, so it's a great time to cultivate. Especially at April 6th, when the moon begins to grow again, which is something else that signifies the increasing of life (as opposed to when the moon is waning).

Aside from years and months, on the daily solar cycle, the time of first light until high noon is like spring going into the height of summer. It's another great time to cultivate the principle of life, as opposed to doing our practices in the afternoon or evening.

Life is movement, so to cultivate life we should do moving practices at those times. The sun is symbolic of yang, of life, so it's good to be in the sun and moving at these times.

...

Oh, also, I think we have to consider the generation cycle of the five elements. The wood of spring depends on the nourishment of the water element. Spring is a great time to not be dehydrated...drink lots of pure spring water.

4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

When does life begin?  In posing this question you seem to assume that I know the answer -- or think I do -- and am just holding out to be difficult.  That´s not the case.  Obviously heterosexual sex kicks off the whole shebang and there are a number of signposts along the way that we might point to as start-of-life moments.  You picked an obvious albeit early one, the moment of conception.  Somebody else might say the moment when there´s a beating heart, or when the fetus can feel pain.  Birth, the moment when the fetus physically separates from the mother, seems a pretty clear demarcation point.  An argument could be made that newborns don´t experience themselves as separate from the mother even after birth,  and perhaps haven´t really come into their own as separate beings until this awareness kicks in.  There´s also the spiritual argument that the baby is alive as a separate being after it´s ensouled, whenever that is.  

 

At some point between the moment when Harry screws up the gumption to ask Sally out to the movies and the point where a newborn´s psychological self-awareness finally dawns, we can say that a baby is an honest-to-goodness living human being.  For the most part, it´s a gradual process.  I agree with you that if there´s gonna be a medical intervention (morning after pill, abortion) then the earlier the better.  But where should we draw the line?  I don´t pretend to know.

 

To me, there´s a certain openness to this not-knowing that feels right.  Because I don´t know when life begins, I can have empathy for all and not try to control the decisions others make about their lives.

I appreciate the answer; it's okay to admit that we don't know. I appreciate that you said the part which I bolded above, and that you agree, the earlier the better for abortion (like the morning after pill).

I'm going to challenge you to think about this further with me. A heartbeat is clearly a sign of a unique life. Extra heartbeats don't manifest randomly inside of people's bodies except in the case of being pregnant, and in pregnancy, that's a life which develops into a human being. Having a heartbeat clearly shows that it's a living being. The way to check if an adult is dead, when you see them lying still on the ground, is to check for a pulse...only in rare cases due to medical advances do people live without having a heartbeat...prior to those advances, when the heart stopped, life stopped.

The heartbeat of an embryo can be detected at week 6. That can end up being when a woman is 2 weeks late for her period, depending on where she's at in her cycle at conception...very early.

If we're truly believing that "the earlier the better" for "medical intervention" (aka, killing the unique life), then perhaps by looking at what life is scientifically, we could decide just how early it should be. Perhaps we could discover signs of life prior to the heartbeat, but having a heartbeat is an undeniable one. No one can speak of a being with a heartbeat and say that it's "not alive".

So, that's where we should draw the line. Week 6. If science discovered signs of "life" prior to that (and I think they have), perhaps it should be even earlier...but this sign is so clear that it's undeniable.

About having empathy for all...that's again not accurate, since you don't consider the fetus. You speak of the moment when the fetus physically separates as seeming like a "pretty clear demarcation point". That's way too late...prior to that, the fetus is able to think and feel, as well as survive independently of the mother. Why don't you have empathy for it, knowing that these things are true?

Regarding "awareness of being separate from the mother" as being a potential sign of life, that's not accurate. When you go to sleep at night, you're not aware of yourself...that doesn't mean you're no longer alive, no longer a human, or no longer worthy of living. First of all, we have no idea what it's like for fetuses or newborns from the first person perspective...we've forgotten what it was like for us (well, most of us have). We can only speculate about such things...and speculation is not a solid ground to stand on when it comes to deciding whether someone else lives or dies. Furthermore, let's say they don't yet understand that they're a unique being...this is just because they haven't learned how the world works yet...it doesn't imply that they lack a will to live, lack feelings and emotions which they experience, lack the experience of pain and suffering, lack the reception of insight, etc. It just means they haven't formed a certain notion with their conceptual mind yet...aside from not having that notion, perhaps they're fully capable in terms of being a "being" and having "consciousness". Again, when you sleep, you lack this notion as well.

Going back to the bolded words above, Luke...you claim that "the earlier the better" for abortion is your position. If that's the case, why haven't you been speaking out against late term abortions, abortions past the point of viability, and newborn killings? Why is it that every liberal here goes silent on those matters, and wants to talk about "women's healthcare" in general, if your position is truly that you think "the earlier the better"? Be honest.