Aetherous

No, not "all people involved in business" -- all people. "People involved in business" is EVERYONE except for those who subsist entirely on the state's dole. This divisive perspective is a significant part of the problem, the idea that "people involved in business" are some other group of people who are greedy bastards responsible for society's ills.

Okay it should have been stated, "People who run businesses" instead of people "involved in" business. That is not everyone, and yes they are a separate group from the rest, who for instance, work for businesses.

I thought that was clear already...

These people who run businesses are in general the greedy bastards responsible for society's ills. Yes. That's why it's so unheard of to see the story of the CEO who slashed his pay to an equal amount as his employees, and raised their base salary to 70k. To the common businessman, that's unthinkable or laughable. In reality, if it weren't for his money going toward lawsuits, that guy and his company would be doing fine. He is one of the rare people involved in making money who puts virtue ahead of profits.

begins with individuals.

 

You and me.

 

It is curious that people speak in lofty terms about cultivation and ending suffering and enlightenment and immortality and such, and debate the higher meanings of ancient scriptures and sutras and Taoist canon ad nauseam, but then so often throw up their hands in defeat & despair when it comes to applying those very principles.

 

Whatever happened to "be the change that you wish to see in the world?"

Really not sure what you're getting at here.

But perhaps you can reflect upon whether free market capitalism is in line with virtue and the spiritual path, as well as ending the suffering of others, when our current system basically operates like a free market already...and yet, 1 in 3 children are living in poverty in America. Many don't know where their next meal is coming from...lets just make up a random number of 1 million, which is probably accurate. 1 million kids, starving under your political philosophy. It would be worse if fully implemented.

Taking away minimum wage, as you wish would happen, these families are even more poor...in truth, to the point where kids are dying of malnutrition and starvation. In America.

Is this conducive to their spiritual growth? Does it end suffering for them? Are you virtuous by insisting upon a philosophy which results in this? Is coercing greedy people into doing the right thing really worse than this result?

Yes, if all people involved in business miraculously started cultivating virtue, there would be no need to coerce them into doing the bare minimum required of being civil toward others. They would naturally pay a living wage and above, and provide benefits, considering these others as equals to themselves, and thinking about their quality of life as much as thinking about their own.

But most don't naturally want to do that, so what's the solution? Let them be, and just hope that they see the error of their unvirtuous yet profitable ways, and will some day decide to sacrifice a bit of their money for the sake of doing right by others? I wonder how that would work out...

Simply in a state controlled system the worst actors climb to to top.

Perhaps that happens regardless of if there is a state or not, and a government could exist that limits such a thing for the good of the society rather than promotes it.

Employers generally pay what they can get away with, but in a free market they are competing with other businesses for the labour pool, just as they have to compete with others for land, space, power, materials etc. that means an employee is free to leave and find a better employer. That said, not all employers pay the market rate, some prefer to pay a bit more, some, a lot more as the recent business crackup of the guy who paid $70k minimum. Henry Ford did a similar thing, but for the good of his business and not the employees benefit.

That's how things are currently.

If your entire point was that the government helping certain businesses (especially harmful ones like Monsanto) is a bad thing, I would completely agree...so we could forget about that aspect.

But your point is that the free market is basically beneficial for society and all people in it...of course that's not true. Once again, you stated the fault of that idea yourself...

The typical business owner doesn't have any motivation to pay their employees a reasonale wage, unless it comes down to them not being able to hire anyone because of such low wages (which isn't really possible in America, because we have a minimum wage instead of having sweatshops)...so long as there is a person who needs the job, they don't give a damn about that person's living. There are numerous examples of this...even to the point of denying employees their benefits by lowering their hours below full time, as in the case of Papa Johns.

But people keep ordering delivery, right?

That's because the free market philosophy doesn't work in reality. The world becomes a survival of the fittest, rather than anything resembling cooperation.

Only the most educated and stubborn people "vote with their dollars". The rest just buy whatever is most convenient. The lowest common denominator, which is most, watch Keeping up with the Kardashians. What use do the Kardashians serve to society? None...yet money is going their way in the free market.

Okay, that happens, and then suddenly everyone doing business is ethical and considerate of other people? Nah. The fault does not lie in government...the fault lies in people's greed. Take away government and that is even more pronounced.

So, true, free markets without any coercive state interventionism are individuals essentially working hard to make each other happier and by doing so, make themselves happier. Perfect service to fellow man and increasing peace and prosperity for everyone.

Sounds nice. However...

healthy fascia...

any youtubes showing good exercises to accomplish this?  Actually that's open to everyone.

This book contains stretches based on the ELDOA work of Guy Voyer DO...the spinal stretches especially work to improve the whole body fascia. If you envision the fascia as a crumpled up piece of tissue paper, the stretches basically move and bind all four corners outward from each other, to straighten and lengthen the fabric at the center...so rather than fascial chains having adhesions or places where it binds for some reason, they are freed up and lengthened, with practice. Apparently the vertebrae have actually been shown to separate by a few millimeters naturally as a result of these stretches, so good for degenerative disc patients. There are also stretches for pretty much the whole body in that book, in the case of a problematic area.

Another thing...fascia has a tendency to become malleable or melt after a few minutes of tension. The fascia accommodates to what the body requires of it...so basically it's good to hold fascial stretches for a decent amount of time to allow the adaption to take place. These stretches can also be done with various tools...for instance putting a soft rubber ball on the IT band and putting your weight into it, then laying there for 10 minutes each side, can help release the fascia of the IT band. Any normal stretch can also become a fascial stretch by doing it for a longer time.

A scientifically proven approach to treating local tendinosis is to do "eccentric loading" (saying it's scientifically proven doesn't mean it will work 100% of the time though). Basically, lets say you're working on your achilles tendon...with no weight, go up on your toes on one leg, then put your weight on it and slowly lower your heel to the ground. In other words, you start with the (gastrocnemius) muscle shortened, have the muscle contract by putting a load on it, and then lengthen it while under contraction.

Sounds like you have a whole body thing going on, though...I'm not sure there is any kind of qigong exercise which will actually help that kind of issue.

In Chinese medicine the tendons are related to the Liver and Gallbladder...for instance, if there is Liver Blood deficiency then it can affect the tendons. Could be something else, but...hope you find something that works for it.

Why does sex feel good?

Why is the sky blue?

I have no familiarity with it beyond Thor and Thor II.  Could you quote a few favorite lines? 

I will quote a few things, but I don't really have favorites...only look at it now and then...

Modernized Verse 2

 

Hail to the Host!

A guest has arrived.

Are you prepared,

to give him a place to rest?

A weary traveler may be impatient,

for warmth and kindness.

 

Keywords: Hospitality, Promptness

So there we see a part of Nordic culture that most don't realize existed...they considered it wise to be very hospitable. There are also a few verses after this one about making the person feel welcome to stop by any time, giving them fresh clothes, etc.

Modernized Verse 5

 

If you plan to travel

have your wits about you.

Pay attention,

The unwise should stay at home.

You will be considered a fool and mocked,

if you can't speak intelligently with other men.

 

Keywords: Alertness, General Knowledge, Worldliness

The Havamal was attributed to Odin, and here we see a couple of characteristics of Odin...he was known to travel, and he was known to test the wits and wisdom of others as well as be tested himself. This shows how the culture highly valued someone who could basically impress other people with their wit in speaking, and also showed how the outside world was full of various dangers (being mocked for instance) that could be avoided if you had wisdom.

Modernized Verse 8

 

It's a fortunate man,

who is well respected by others,

for the deeds he has done himself.

It's more difficult if you rely on others,

to help make your good reputation.

 

Keywords: Accomplishment, Self-reliance

So here we have another bit of practical wisdom...accomplish things by your own effort and it will be more respectable.

Much of the book is like this kind of practical wisdom, where if you can remember the sayings, it can potentially help you make better choices in life. There are verses on avoiding becoming drunk, for instance...because it takes away your ability to think clearly. This is opposite of how we tend to view Vikings based on most of pop culture references.

There are also passages on the runes in the book, and perhaps other subjects which aren't so practical. The rune stuff doesn't really make any sense, as the tradition is considered lost to time.

Perhaps with increased responsibility you would aim higher.

I think that was Jeff Bridges. lol

oh wait - you don't believe me?

Of course not.

It's not a medical emergency, I've been manually removing the chi that't been piling up and I feel way better but it still

pools there if I don't manually do it. My skin is less purple on that spot but like I said the chi is still

pooling there

It's a Chinese medical emergency...purple indicates that the blood is stagnating there...go see a practitioner.

here on a discussion forum, yes, great.  But when visiting someone else's place of worship, not so much; unless its a public forum and they ask your opinion.  Entering another's Church is like being a guest in a person's house.  Why go out of ones way to disrespect there views?  When it comes to religion, one shouldn't expect perfect (or much) rationality or historic accuracy.  

I don't think Bud Jetsun actually corrected the guy...but he should have! It's not disrespecting the guy's views to say that Jesus wasn't Catholic...it's just the truth. There shouldn't be a church caretaker who is telling people inaccuracies.

Also if you think Bud Jetsun was disrespectful for not kneeling...that's not true. Christians don't have some obligation to kneel in order to be respectful, especially if it's potentially a matter of idolatry and empty gestures. Jesus himself spoke against both, therefore Christians are free to stand while others kneel, and to do so is not at all disrespectful in a Christian church.

Pointing out others religious foibles is easy.  Most religions seem crazy and illogical to outsiders.  Even within the same religion different branches seem ludicrous.

But this is a case of a person being clearly mistaken...not anything having to do with religious foibles. No sect of Christianity teaches that Jesus was a Catholic...it's just plain wrong. They do need to be corrected in such a case...I say this as someone who identifies as Christian, letting you know that it's not okay to spread lies within the religion. The correction can happen in a church or anywhere else and it's not disrespectful, but is truthful and good.

Why be flabbergasted a Catholic in a cathedral states Christ is Catholic?

I think it's very understandable. We might as well say that Lao Zi was Christian which influenced his writing of the Koran. If people are going to claim to care about some religious figure, at least have a basic understanding of the figure. Catholicism came after Jesus, who was a Jew...pretty easy to learn that.

I think instead of a bland diet, you'd want a balanced natural whole food diet. Bob Flaws recommends the bland diet, and primarily by having rice congee...but the fine print is that rice is a diuretic and will deplete your qi if you aren't supposed to be having diuretics. Also if you try having carbs as your primary food source, you're going to feel weird...you need proteins and fats also in nearly equal ratios.

Basically, go with a natural whole food diet that makes you feel normal and you'll be on the right track.

The Kunlun system is mysterious.

Yigong taught by Jenny Lamb is essentially the same practice as the main Kunlun method...Jenny Lamb adds some qigong before and after it while perhaps makes it work better with the physical body...therefore that is the way I prefer to practice if I ever do. On the other hand, Max alters the way it's performed after a while to make it a more internal method, although the same thing is happening as a result of the hand posture.

The other methods taught in Kunlun also do very cool things. The Kunlun system is supposed to be mainly the red phoenix practice + the kunlun method, which combined results in the gold dragon body effect.

My personal opinion is that neither teacher, Max or Jenny, acts as an individual guide to you on your path, or represents a complete school. It's not like you're begin initiated into a Daoist lineage. One could say that Kunlun is a complete school of practices...there are many of them which Max put together after learning traditionally. But it isn't comparable to Buddhism for instance, with all of the philosophy ethics mind training etc. Kunlun is basically: learn how to do practices correctly, then have your own experience and figure everything out for yourself. Which is good and bad...I personally am in favor of having clear guidance.

Also, with a practice that opens you up to all things, like Kunlun method or yigong, that means you're potentially amplifying or attuning to both the good and the bad, rather than just cultivating the good. There are good effects that come from the practice, to be sure, such as self healing...and there are also effects that some might not like. For instance, one thing is that you can become aware of ghosts when you previously weren't. Not that it's the end of the world if you do, because it works to tell them to go away...but if people are looking for a practice that gives longevity and makes everything in life easy, there are some things that come with that. Even if it's just practicing yigong...it's the same method and same result.

There is a subtle but fundamental contempt for the religious mind amongst the conventional educated middle classes.

Who cares what the masses think?

It's natural. Focus on your spiritual practice instead of micromanaging something that has little to do with true progress.

My practice is dzogchen in the Bon lineage of Zhang Zhung Nyen Gyu. My secondary practice is Dream Yoga from the Ma Gyu Tantra. I have not found this forum to be a comfortable or supportive place to discuss specific results. I can say that the practices have profoundly impacted my life, work, and relationships in beautiful ways so I would say, yes - good results. 

I have noticed a deep change in you toward the serene and non-attached in a few years time.

This thread is listed as  having multiple replies .... but 0 views ?

 

How does that work ? 

Someone Created it.

Yes 'defective induction'. Inductive logic is still fairly unstable, I go with the old fashioned deductive reasoning ;-) In court we have 'innocent until proven guilty'. Your version would be 'guilty until proven innocent'. If I accuse you of killing someone I can simply continue with a whole plethora of arguments against yours. I will always be one step ahead of you. We can do the role play if you wish, then it will become obvious why the fallacy of ad ignorant imam is not for sale.

I think you didn't grasp my point (and I'm not really grasping yours here). Please revisit and reread my post for anything else, because it says it all. If I comment in this thread again, it will be on the topic of the "kingdom".

In effect you are saying that everything and anything is true until it is proven otherwise.

Read the sentence before the one that I italicized.

I told you Karl that I don't have the time. But here is something to whet your appetite: a fallacy of defective induction - argument ad ignorantiam..."it is fallacious to argue that some proposition is true simply because it has not been proved false. It is equally fallacious to argue that some proposition is false simply because it has not been proved true." (Copi and Cohen, Introduction to Logic, 12th Edition)