Aetherous

Go PA. I am thinking of doing it as well. You'll have more freedom, and good money. Study oriental stuff on the side, and be one of the good guys who doesn't simply push pills, and who educates patients in alternative healing.

I remember seeing a program on History channel or something, where they tested some of the shroud and it ended up being a forgery.

Word.

Padge, fly to the east coast with me in May! I live in upper Michigan so no seminars come by me either. Still not 100% sure I'll be able to afford the trip yet, but we'll see. ... About this topic: I went to a seminar last May and I've had minor health problems since then. So I do think the best thing would be continual face to face guidance if even just for assurance during rough times...but I think if you only have the book that's good enough. I mean it shows you how to do the practice just fine, but it will take some experimentation to navigate successfully. So it will just be a harder and longer path. I might take my favorite Max quotes from the Kunlun forum and put them here for book practitioners to help out, since some of his sayings have been pretty helpful to me.

Emptiness is where absolutely everything seems to disappear. Being empty means not even be-ing. Practicing emptiness is being in that state, which is completely effortless. Kinda philosophical. It's better to say: just practice and see.

What about the Old Testament dudes like Moses, Elijah, Abraham, Enoch, etc?

Spectrum, That's probably good advice for standing, but these spontaneous practices are different. You can't apply your current mode of thinking and philosophy to it...if you do, you limit it...and then it's not "it" anymore. I don't think my teacher was afraid. Her reasons were good, and now after having practiced a while more, I agree with her. For the reasons I stated before: Seeing spontaneous movement inspires people in the wrong direction. For effective practice, the mind should be gone and all seeking should cease. It's essential to come upon your own personal experience of "energy", not someone else's. The more absorbed in being, and the more the mind and body are gone, the better...so a video of someone's movement when this happens isn't going to inspire anyone to do that.

If someone asked you to post naked pictures of yourself here, would you do it? Seriously...think about it. It's pretty embarrassing! Well true spontaneous movement is even more embarrassing. Because you're moving around like a nutjob. Yeah nudity is enough to make you blush but at least with nudity you still have your dignity! Spontaneous qigong is probably the most intimate thing about myself...and I actually did share it with the forum once. So no, I'm not Dick Cheney at all. Why do I need to lighten up? I wasn't mad when I was asking you to actually name someone. Why are you unable to do it? You can't think of anyone who you can actually say has been suckered into the Kunlun path? It's okay to put your opinion out there. How so? By only saying it, and acting rudely?

Spectrum, Seeing spontaneous movement inspires people in the wrong direction. For effective practice, the mind should be gone and all seeking should cease. It's essential to come upon your own personal experience of "energy", not someone else's. The more absorbed in being, and the more the mind and body are gone, the better...so a video of someone's movement when this happens isn't going to inspire anyone to do that. And it's not going to show some ideal thing, like "wuji" or "soong". It's just going to look ridiculous. Other types of spontaneous stuff can be videotaped of course...like your intuitive movements, or Lin's. That can be inspiring for being creative and exploring yourself. But Kunlun and Shuichuan aren't like that. I liked your sentiment for making this topic, so I posted my own standing spontaneous qigong video before...but I was asked to take it down by my teacher for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Plus it's just really embarrassing to show people it. It's personal to me...can you respect the privacy of others? It doesn't mean someone is dishonest if they keep some things hidden.

Xenolith, Or you can actually man up and call me a sucker, if you see fit. I don't see it fit at all to identify myself as a sucker. Or Cam. So...who are you addressing? Name the sucker.

Xenolith, Are you calling me a sucker? Just because I really like the benefits of the Kunlun practices?

Cam, The way I see it, that's what Max does. But I agree with you.

That would be sweet.

Maybe what you're thinking you should see doesn't apply in the Kunlun path. It's really quite a different type of practice.

Yes I don't believe in some "energy" that people store in the belly to shoot out of their hands...in my experience it doesn't work quite like that, and what does work is at this point kind of indescribable by me...but best experienced first hand and not gained from books or whatever low level teachers tell you. In my experience, running is better for your overall health than qigong. Qigong to me is more spiritual than anything. But miraculous things can happen to your health as a result of such a path. And I'm just at a bad stage so perhaps I'm biased.

Spectrum, Spontaneous movement isn't an ability. It's like you're asking someone to show you how they pick weeds, rather than have them show you the great garden they've tended to. The movement is really nothing to show. It differs for everyone! Some may not even have any movement at all. What matters is the emptiness and bliss...and how can that be demonstratable? It takes somewhat of a discerning mind to be able to notice when someone's spirit has changed. Not everyone can tell just from words on a forum. Most can't even tell from talking face to face! The path is really subjective. Sorry.

Very great advice!

Cash rules everything around me, CREAM, get the money, dolla dolla bill ya'll.

Yes I practiced only AYP for about a year and a half to 2 years solely...then I switched to awareness watching awareness meditation, which made my negative symptoms calm down. Then after like a year I started Kunlun.

Well, even in the Shuichuan course you're not supposed to film yourself doing spontaneous movement. I had to take my video down that I posted here a while ago. I can agree with the idea...the important thing is not what's happening on the outside, but what's happening on the inside. It can be misleading to show people your body moving which might make them think that's what you should strive for. Everyone's movement is different. Also my energy wasn't calm enough, so showing that video kind of gives a bad transmission to anyone who watches it. Just another perspective.

This is very true. It was kind of strange to watch over the years. People would come to the AYP forums with problems, and it'd be somewhat ignored. The advice given was to repeat the same old thing, "Self pace" etc. And then in another topic people would go on and on about how AYP solved kundalini syndrome and is perfectly safe. But no actual problems were ever solved as far as I know, and at least for myself AYP gave me horrible effects. I wasn't able to sit cross legged for a minute without becoming all ungrounded, and I developed some not so fun health issues which still follow me to this day. I don't see saying this as bashing AYP. People should give it a really good shot if they feel led to it. It's just not for everyone and people should know that.

If my parents had me make a Christmas wish list, I would've appreciated it if they actually got what was on the list. Also, this is kind of personal but whatever: I was a pretty bad rebel teenager, and at one point my mom said she wasn't going to be my mom anymore. It was just said in anger, but that's the last thing a mom should say to her kid. Also tons of times my parents would threaten to kick me out of the house, and a couple times actually did...I don't think that's a good thing for someone to experience. So if your kid is really really getting on your nerves, please just wait it out. Go somewhere else and don't argue with them. Be a good example of calmness. And get them the presents they ask for!

Portcraig said, That would be a great opportunity. Too much stuff is located in California...and too much Scotty is located in the Great Lakes area. Ape, When are your DVDs coming out?! I'm not asking to make you look bad in any way...but I'm really interested to see the stuff you know!

h.uriahr,