Prasanna

Vedanta Philosophy explains about ways to lead a Selfless Life, Truthful life, Values to be followed in life, and final Self Realization. First and foremost of values is "Non hatred towards all the beings of the world". Not hurtful towards any being in the world. Compassion, Friendliness, Non anger, Self Control (Sense Control), Shraddha (Faith), Away from Crowd, Unaffected by joy and sorrow, heat and cold, Not desire ridden, Non jealousy. Vedanta covers both Idealism and Realism. Leading a life by following: i) Waking up early in the morning betwween 4.00A.M and 5.30A.M. This time is called Brahma Muhurtha (4.00 A.M - 6.00 A.M), Studying Scriptural texts and related texts like Vedanta Treatise, Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Choice Upanishads, Select English Poems (Books by Swami. A.Parthasarathy). ii) Practice of Karma Yoga (Path of Action), Bhakthi Yoga (Path of Devotion), Gnana Yoga (Path of Knowledge) according to one's constitution. iii) Steadfastness, Determination to achieve the goal takes the individual to Meditation and Self Realiation.

When a student is looking for a teacher, there are some qualities that a teacher possesses. When the teacher does not respond it means there is something more to be done or something is not been done by the student. It is time to recheck and work on the path taking care of each and every detail. Shraddha is a quality which means steadfastness in the path.

This game of life is an illusion because there is no Reality in it. Reality is defined as that which doesn't change in all three periods of time called Present, past and future. There is nothing permanent and change is the only permanent constant in this world and life. Even if you consider our body to be our real personality, still the constant identity of 'I'ness and 'My'ness is illusory because all the cells in our body keeps dying and the older cells are replaced by new ones. since we don't recognize this we believe that we are this seemingly immaculate body and the resultant non changing identity 'I'. The 'I' or our ego does not exist at all except for our self imagination. You can verify this scriptural truth by your own personal experience.

The scriptures say that this individual existence itself is false, only God or Supreme Self within is the truth and that alone exists. Everything else is our interpretation of the world by our material layers.

Roger, You are absolutely right. In fact you have said the same important aspect of life what I studied for three years and still working on in the name of Vedanta Philosophy. The difference between worldly people and spiritual people is their identification. All worldly people from the worst of sinners to the best of seekers will consciously or unconsciously believe wrongly that they are this material limitations of Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego. The spiritual people put efforts and work their way to dissociate their wrong identification with the material aspects of Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego and merge one with the Supreme self or God within the subtlest core of their personality. This identification with the Supreme Self, the Divine, the WHOLE, the entirety without the second is what makes the spiritual aspirants different from the worldly people. Know Thy (Supreme) SELF. "Thou Art God" is the glorious and gracious claim of the Scriptures, whether it be Abrahamic or Vedic.

Roger, very interesting topic and a beautiful explanation of the topic by you in your first comment. My Guru says that it does not matter as to what stage of life one is, but it matters as to what is one aspiring for at present. For you it is very clear that you are working for salvation, the ultimate of ideals that humans can aspire for. For an individual to be successful in life, the first and foremost necessity is the ideal and you have set the supreme most of supreme ideal. The more lofty the ideals, it is easy for us to achieve real success. Selfish people live selfishly and die with selfishness. Being humans, it is our prerogative to think, to think for the welfare and benefit of human society. When we turn to spiritual pursuits, we know that we have to give up our wrong desires, selfishness and egoism. We also know that we have to seek the supreme Self or God within us to become one with it one day. This spiritual ideal of seeking the supreme Self is the highest of selflessness. Thereafter a sincere seeker should never have result orientation about the final salvation. My Guru says there is one sure way for salvation: "Kaaryam Karma Karothi yah, Sa sanyasi cha Yogi cha". This quote for Srimad Bhagavad Gita simply means that "the One who keeps performing duties and selfless service, he is a sanyasi (true renunciate) and he alone is a Yogi (Man of perfection)". Here selfless service and performance of duties implies that they need to be devoid of result orientation. For sincere and dedicated seekers of truth, having set the ideal of Self Realization is as good as achieving Self Realization rather than wasting time on worries and anxieties about the actual Self Realization.

Though absolute forgiveness is avoiding revenge or offensive activities in retaliation and not punishing, there are situations for some people where punishing the offender or the one who committed the wrong is itself forgiveness. This is because not all are saints and sages to forgive even the highest of crime. There are other type of personalities like warriors, businessmen, teacher who need to punish the wrong doer. For great spiritual personalities like Jesus Christ or Budhdha the term forgiveness itself doesn't exist because they have crossed over their selfish ego and desires which are the cause for either revenge or forgiveness. They take things as they are without any personal bias. Jesus Christ says, "Hate the sin, not the sinner" which implies that there are no sinners but only people who are innocently ignorant. Let us take the background of the great Mahabharatha war and Bhagavad Gita. Arjuna, the Pandava brother who was the main person to seek a war with the wicked Kauravas for their unrighteousness, suddenly tells Lord krishna in the middle of the battle field that he doesn't want to fight the war. The great warrior suddenly stooped down to cowardice due to his complacency. He turned despondent when he spoke the words of wisdom of a renunciate when he was actually nowhere nearer to that maturity or mental perfection. Arjuna dropped his arms, bows and arrows and started walking away from the battle field. Arjuna said he doesn't want to enjoy the kingdom by killing his cousins. He further said that he is taking to renunciation (Sanyas) instantly. Lord Krishna who is the wisest of the wise knew what was behind Arjuna's deplorable despondency. All the while Arjuna was talking in terms of doing his duty as a warrior and fighting unrighteousness, injustice and corruption. Now suddenly he backed up from the war because he was to fight his own cousins and close relatives. The selfishness and egoism in Arjuna played pranks and made him forget the supreme ideal of fighting unrighteousness, injustice and corruption which is the duty of a warrior. Arjuna cheap selfish mentality was exposed when he gave up his ideal of fighting unrighteousness when it came to matters of himself and his own family. Lord Krishna had to recite the full eighteen (18) chapters of Bhagavad Gita to make Arjuna do his duty as a warrior. Forgiveness in this context is Arjuna fighting for the cause of righteousness, not foregoing the evil Kauravas who would have caused extreme harm to the society by way of corruption and malpractices. Even if Arjuna had falsely forgiven at that instant by withdrawing himself from battle, it is very evident that in no time he would be forced again to fight the war because Arjuna's real nature was that of of a warrior and not of a saint who can renounce everything. We have to forgive in a way that it is beneficial for our spiritual growth and beneficial for the society or humanity.

What you must do with a trauma that you encountered in the past very much depends on the kind of trauma and the real reason behind the trauma. If you encountered a trauma because you accidentally did something wrong without intention, then most probably you can forget and win over it. But, on the contrary if you had done some serious offence that will not heal with time, then you got to perform selfless service oriented action and sacrificial actions combined with overflowing love for our fellow beings to overcome the trauma. One has to rise above trauma by one's choice of action and subtle sensible attitude. Anybody would only like to overcome the trauma and not experience pain and suffering unnecessarily unless they are freaks.

I don't know whether you are talking about individual choice or a group choice. I would like to give importance to individual choice since it is the basic unit of group choice. How do we know whether a choice is made by destiny or free will? If a person continues to be egocentric and selfish, he is bound to make a choice by the influence of destiny. Selfish people lack free will to the extent they are selfish and egocentric. As an individual grows spiritually, meaning turns more selfless, sacrificial, service oriented, compassionate, kind, friendly, engenders unconditioned, impartial love free from personal attachments, discriminates between the real and the ephemeral, then such an individual will possess free will to make choices, not otherwise.

Enlightenment or Spiritual awakening, both the terms mean the same Self Realization. May be we can say that there are different stages in spiritual awakening, but enlightenment means the ultimate state of Self Realization. When somebody turns from mundane worldly pursuits to spiritual pursuit, there is an awakening in the personality towards the truth and Realities of life. While in the spiritual path, as we progress, we are into different stages of spiritual awakening. Like, when we pursue Self Realization, the Self which was mere witness before we turned to spirituality, now helps us in our pursuit as a friend. This is one stage of awakening. As we grow up more in the spiritual pursuit, the Self becomes an enjoyer from a friend in the previous stage. This is another stage of awakening. Then, as we achieve total awakening, the individual himself becomes the Self known as Maheshwara who has perfect control over himself and his world. This is the last stage of awakening. Perfect control over the world doesn't mean authoritarian or dictatorship, but means minimal dependency on the world or absolute self sufficiency and self reliance.

Beautiful topic worth discussing. Actually the list of masters you quoted are all saints and sages. Yes they all agree on one thing that Ego and desires of the Mind are the cause of pain and suffering in humans. They all agree that worldly pursuits are futile since they cannot give the absolute happiness that we are unconsciously craving for through our experiences in life. But, there is one more thing I would like to add. The list of enlightened souls that you have provided is not comprehensive. Even in our scriptures, there are instances which describe that the list of enlightened souls are not confined to saints and sages but people from all walks of life. King Janaka, Lord Rama, Lord Krishna, Bhaktha Prahladha, Bhaktha Dhruva, etc. are good examples of enlightened souls who were not sages but people involved in worldly affairs. You might have heard about the story of Jabali who is a butcher by profession, but an enlightened soul.

Let us see what are the factors that can influence our decision making and what factors among them can take us to our evolution. You are in crossroads because you have done something extremely good that you are made to pause for a while to make the right move in life. Not many get that chance. Twenty one (21) years back I too was in the same crossroads that you have described here in your post. I had taken admission in an Engineering college to do my Masters in Computer applications. I didn't have a clue whether I had the right mindset to do the course before i joined. I was in utter confusion since I could not study properly from the beginning. I started thinking about my future and got worried since nothing seemed to be certain or seemed to be favourable for my future. Just then there was a lecture by my present Guru (Swami. Parthasarathy) on Vedanta philosophy, on Bhagavad Gita at the Town hall. It was December 25th 1995 I attended the lecture and continued to attend it for the next four days till the completion of the lectures. One of the days during the lecture I decided that I should take up the course on Vedanta philosophy full time so that I learn what is life before I venture into my life. My advice would be to learn the art of right contact with the world before you venture into living your life. Vedanta philosophy helped me. We have to know very well about what we are and what the world is in reality so that we make the right decisions. Vedanta philosphy taught me objectivity and self sufficiency necessary for leading a purposeful life.

Every aspect of life is spiritual, but when we specifically take to spiritual pursuit as opposed to worldly pursuits then there is no place for creativity unless it is the inherent nature of the individual. For all purpose we can conclude that the main ideal of spirituality is just the opposite of creativity. In my opinion,creativity can be a stepping stone for achieving the ultimate enlightenment or Self Realization, but not the part of actual enlightenment. Enlightenment or Self Realization is transcending every aspect of the world to gain oneness with the supreme being which is beyond definitions.

From the absolute point, there is no forgiveness since there is no difference like I or you or others. We are relatively existing in this limitation of Body, mind, Intellect and Ego. But it is very difficult to rise to that absolute level. Yet we all can practice forgiveness to the extent we can so that we don't carry anymore sins but earn grace and virtue. Can you imagine how heavy a heart that does not know to forgive is? It is ridden with confusions and agitation which obscure it of the Reality or Supreme bliss. One quote says that "Forgiveness is the fragrance that a violet releases as the foot crushes it". Forgiveness should be so spontaneous and instantaneous. ...and we need not even carry the excess burden of that egoistic stance that 'I' have forgiven.

>>> p.s. What other person?... <<< Good question. Isn't that feeling of non identification with others the real cause of responsibility, forgiveness and traumas in first place?

Very true, We are the all pervading God or Supreme Self within indeed, not this limited existence of physical, emotional and intellectual experiences alone. We should not mistake a part for the whole.

I am not well versed with your terminology. In Vedanta we talk about two different 'selfs'. One self is the little self with 's' in small letters and the other is the Supreme Self or Self with 'S' in capital letters. Little self or self is nothing but our individual worldly personality which is due to the identification with Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego. The other Self or Supreme self is the God which is the subtlest enlivening principle that is the source, cause and substratum of life, life experiences and is responsible for the proper functioning of our various faculties of Body, Mind, Intellect, Memory and Ego. In short, without Self (Supreme Self) there is no little self. Our ego which exists due to our identification with the Body, Mind and Intellect plays the fool and assumes the reality of the Supreme Self when in reality it is an emergent principle which is imaginary. The difference between Supreme Self and ego or little self is the difference between an object and its Shadow. Shadow exists only until the light falls on the real object. Similarly Ego exists only till we, the Supreme Self, are wrongly identified with the Body, Mind, Intellect and their world of objects, beings and experiences. The entire spiritual effort is getting rid of this false identification that gives rise to the imaginary ego and getting rid of the desires of the Mind which boosts our imaginary ego.

Hari Om. Kaveri, I have seen some beautiful ideas presented in this post of yours. All are relevant points but not seem to be directly answering your query of how to find one's own Swadharma. As you already explained with the bittergourd example, Swadharma is one's own inherent nature. What is inherent nature? Generally our scriptures state that every individual is a combination of the three gunas namely Satwa, Rajas and Tamas in different proportions. This difference in constitution of the personality with varying proportions of Satwa, Rajas and Tamas is what is said to be our Swadharma. In olden days based on this gunas, the four varnas called the Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra were formed. These do not in any way mean the caste system as has been wrongly advertised by the British colonial rule to divide and rule India. A Brahmana is one who is introverted and seeks the ultimate Truth called Brahman in and through all his activities which include performance of duties without expectation of the fruits of action. The Swadharma of a true Brahmin who is rich in Satwa guna was to study the holy scriptures, follow a simple life free from Ego, desires and greed, work towards the benefit and welfare of the society by upholding noble and wise ways of living as enshrined in the holy scriptures. The next class called Kshatriyas, the warrior class, who had more Rajas guna in them. They became leaders of the kingdom and took to administration work of the kingdom. The next were the Vaishyas, the business class, who had more rajas and Tamas in them. Naturally they took to business and made wealth and comfortable living. The fourth class of people are the Shudras who were more Tamasic and hence took to farming and hard labour which gave them both work and relaxed cum entertaining life free from other responsibilities. Whatever be their guna which is God's creation, people were ready to apply it for the benefit and welfare of the society that maintained harmonious living in the society. None of the four classes were superior to each other since all the four knew that they were interdependent for their existence. Not only that, by doing their swadharma alone they were able to achieve heights of spiritual evolution. Satwa (Satwic) guna represents clear thinking based on noble virtues, selfless service and sacrifice. Satwa is genuine wisdom that helps in knowing the truth and realities of life. Satwa guna comprises of actions, perceptions, emotions and thinking which are progressively evolutionary for both the individual and the society, calm and composed living, Humility, etc. Rajasa (Rajasic) guna is full of action and pleasure seeking. Rajasa guna mistakes unreal world and its experiences to be real. Rajasic guna is a higher intermediate state than the Tamasic guna. Rajasic guna is full of desires and passion. The best of Rajas is unselfishness which is next only to selfless attitude. Life of a youth is a typical example of Rajasic guna. Tamasa (Tamasic) guna is the lowest of the three gunas which is nothing but steeped in ignorance. Tamas manifest as indifference, laziness, complacency and utmost selfcentred cum selfish egoism to such an extent that the individual kills others for his personal wellbeing. Tamas is arrogance, hatred, confusion, stealth, bigotry, disgraceful living and devolutionary or self destructive activities. Acting on swadharma is nothing but performance of Karma Yoga, Bhakthi Yoga and Gnan Yoga according to the individual composition of the personality. Those who are predominantly physical must take to Karma Yoga. Those who are predominantly emotional must take to Bhakthi Yoga and those who are predominantly intellectual must take to Gnana Yoga.This is done this way so that their predominant desires are given a direction and are used for a higher cause of Self Realization. By this the individual gradually gets freed from the Ego and desires of the Mind and finally achieves the ultimate purpose of this human birth and existence called Self Realization through meditation. This is the message of Srimad Bhagavad Gita and Vedanta philosophy. One can find out one's own swadharma by spending some time like 5 to 10 minutes on introspection over the days activities just before going to bed in the night, by reflecting in the early morning and some time during the day for finding out the areas of interests or passion in life. Some may be able administrators. Some may be good intellectuals. Some may be artists. Some may be service oriented. Some may be business minded. Some may be nationalistic. Some others may be totally disinterested and lead an introverted life studying scriptures. Some may be a combination two or more of these. It all once again depends on the fundamental composition of the personality.

Hari Om. Kaveri, I have studied Srimad Bhagavad Gita under a Guru by the name Swami. Parthasarathy. It is the book where I was able to clearly make out about the message of each and every verse in Bhagavad Gita. So try this book Srimad Bhagavad Gita if you want to easily relate the message of the Bhagavad Gita to our day to day practical life. For further information visit the following website: www.vedantaworld.org Pranam.

I don't know about Chakras at all. But according to my understanding of Vedanta philosophy, Every life experience is a "Aha experience of Self". This state of recognizing Divinity in every aspect of the world is known as Partial Self Realization. This is callled partial Self Realization because as long as the individual ego sustains in the personality it still remains in a Duality of world and itself as two different entities. There is still an experiencer and an experienced. But in total or Full Self Realization, the ego is completely lost and there is no difference between the world, the experiencer and the experienced. A Realized soul is just a witness to whatever that is happening according to his prarabdha karma.

Before getting into the topic of difference between experience of Self and the actual Self Realization, let us try to understand what is the spiritual effort all about. According to Vedanta philosophy, the spiritual effort is all about identifying our own original Supreme Self within the subtlest core of our personality by giving up our wrong identification with the limited body,mind, intellect and ego that sustains our fallacious and illusory individual personality in the world. The other way to describe spiritual effort is to give up our selfish egoism and egocentric desires of the mind. From this we can easily find out that as long as one keeps talking about an experience of Self, seemingly he / she has still not achieved absolute Self Realization or Samadhi or Mukthi. Lord Shri Krishna when explaining about the state of Self Realization says that it is state of no return, meaning whoever is Self Realized are permanently freed from the bondage of continuous birth and death cycle that the individual Jeeva (Soul) goes through. the state of Self Realization is a transcendental state of consciousness beyond the waking dream and deep sleep state of consciousness. The Kenopanishad gives more proof of authentic Self Realization when the master warns the student that if one thinks that he knows about God or Self Realization, then he does not know about these and he further goes on to say that those who do not know God or Self Realization too know very well about these two.

Namaste. Taoteching99, I read your full explanation about the topic you have suggested for discussion. The direction of your quest is right as much as you are seeking solutions through spirituality and not through worldly pursuits of sensuality and materialism. The worldly pursuits of sensuality and materialism are pursuits that can give only instant pleasures and suffering in the end, not lasting happiness. This is because worldly pursuits are mostly selfish and egocentric. They boost only negative aspects of human personality called desires of the Mind and Ego which are just the opposite of truth or Realities of life. A deeper study of Vedanta philosophy will enable you to find your true happiness and relief from sufferings and pains of worldly life.

In nature we find two different approach to life adopted by us, human beings. One is the extroverted pursuit generally known as worldly life. The other is the introverted pursuit of the Supreme Self within ourselves generally known as spiritual life. In worldly life, there is no seeking, no conscious quest to know the higher truths and realities of life. It is more of a herd instinct where in the individual is complacent with his sensual, selfish, egoistic, utilitarian, materialistic living. In worldly life, unless the individual learns a lesson from the knocks and shocks of life, there is no way he can turn spiritual. Some human beings are alert and dynamic that they turn to research and analysis of their own life after going through minimum of experiences in life needed to conclude the right path to be taken in life. Some extroverted living experience is necessary just to personally confirm about the truths and realities of life.

The art of peace is what true spirituality is all about. What are the elements that destroys peace of any individual? It is the Ego and selfish desires of the Mind. The mind has selfish desires, likes and dislikes, impulsiveness, emotions like a anger, lust, greed, jealousy, envy, pretense, pride, ostentation, etc. How to develop peace within ourselves? It is taught by a spiritual philosophy called Vedanta. Vedanta prescribes the systematic way by which one can learn the truths and realities of life, achieve the ultimate purpose of this human birth and human existence called Self Realization. The following steps are prescribed by Vedanta to achieve peace. Fixation of a higher selfless ideal like Self Realization Follow through the set ideal with dedication, perseverance and consistency of purpose till the ideal is achieved Taking up spiritual practices of Karma Yoga (selfless service and sacrifice, performance of daily and special duties without result orientation or without expectation of fruits of action) for the physical body, Bhakthi Yoga (Universal love, Non hatred for all the beings of the world, revelling in the welfare of every being, having gratitude towards the Divine Providence, spiritual personalities, wise and noble benefactors, etc. for the gift of life) for the Mind and Gnana Yoga (Discrimination of the real from the unreal, Waking up at Brahma Muhurtha (Early morning 4.00 A.M to 6.00 A.M) to study, reflect, contemplate and meditate on the subject of Vedanta or spiritual subjects, Practice introspection about the day's activities before going to bed in the evening for less than 10 Minutes without analyzing the actions) for the Intellect.