KuroShiro
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Posts posted by KuroShiro
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1 hour ago, wandelaar said:We are now on page 6. And the preaching of the believers goes on and on. No end in sight. If only a minute fraction of the time and energy wasted on irrelevant posts had been spend on actually helping with the set up of the experiment, we would by now have had the first results giving an impression of the PK-abilities of those participating in the experiment. But nothing of the sort happened.
Besides: there are skeptical organizations willing to test persons claiming to have paranormal abilities, so if our experiments here would have proved fruitful we could go to the skeptics to see what happens. That was the next step I had in mind, but as I am only getting vast amounts of irrelevant preaching and generalizing accusations my interest in this topic is rapidly declining.
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8 minutes ago, Nungali said:Because you were not following the conversation in combination with the thread intent . Not surprised , considering the disruptions .
I certainly was!
Besides even if I wasn't, interesting conversation might arise when one slightly goes off on a tangent.
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21 minutes ago, wandelaar said:It's the believers that are wrecking this topic. I wouldn't have started this topic if I wasn't open to new evidence.
You want to believe?
Let me know if you are truly interested and I'll take some time to put together a well thought out post linking several topics with common sense, western science and medicine, society, conditioning... and why I think your search for evidence of abilities is not the Way to go.
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18 minutes ago, Nungali said:Love isnt a physical system . So has nothing to do with PK .
You want to physically manipulate love ' from a distance' ... thats more like New Age Witchcraft
You don't seem to have understood my post.
I don't understand yours.
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5 hours ago, wandelaar said:Last attempt: this topic is not about chi gong, videos, medical issues, magicians, fake, etc.
It's about setting up a simple experiment with an online random number generator, and finding some people willing to test their supposed PK ability. Why make it more difficult than it is?
Is an online random number generator a physical system?
Psychokinesis (from Greek ψυχή "mind" and κίνησις "movement"), or telekinesis (from τηλε- "far off" and κίνηση "movement" ), is an alleged psychic ability allowing a person to influence a physical system without physical interaction.
22 minutes ago, wandelaar said:The few useful posts in this topic have by now been effectively drowned in irrelevant preaching by the believers....
Belief/not belief is perhaps only in the mind. There seems to be a lot to discover outside the mind.
6 minutes ago, Daemon said:That's the nature of religious bulletin boards. Just do your best to ignore the hard-core believers and concentrate on the possible scientists (in case there might be any).
☮️
Why are scientists put on a pedestal?
How would a scientist prove the existence of LOVE?
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Psychokinesis (from Greek ψυχή "mind" and κίνησις "movement"), or telekinesis (from τηλε- "far off" and κίνηση "movement" ), is an alleged psychic ability allowing a person to influence a physical system without physical interaction.
A psychic is a person who claims to use extrasensory perception (ESP) to identify information hidden from the normal senses, particularly involving telepathy or clairvoyance, or who performs acts that are apparently inexplicable by natural laws.
Extrasensory perception or ESP, also called sixth sense or second sight, includes claimed reception of information not gained through the recognized physical senses, but sensed with the mind. The term was adopted by Duke University psychologist J. B. Rhine to denote psychic abilities such as intuition, telepathy, psychometry, clairaudience, and clairvoyance, and their trans-temporal operation as precognition or retrocognition.
I don't understand why there seems to be the need for some sort of compartmentalization when defining these terms. It's usually the mind that takes center stage: psychic ability/not gained through the recognized physical senses, but sensed with the mind.
@Ilovecoffee (how do you guys make those blue @username) that video seems to be showing qi projection?
To the OP:
Qi projection moving objects, etc. at a distance is real. I can tell you that clairvoyance is also real.
I don't understand the need to compartmentalize.
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What are PK abilities?
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2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:No.
I am a believer of the process Bruce Frantzis describes:
This is what it says,
This is what it means,
This is how you do it.
Things are what they are, yes.
But without a method I will not be able to experience that for my self, that is, no alchemical transformation will take place in me. It will only be either an intellectual knowledge or an observation.
So the trigrams are what they are, as the elements. But what are they? And there we enter the world of different traditions, with different takes on the subject, which brings me back to that excellent quote you used in your post 😎.
And if you by the five elements mean wuxing, I believe taomeow did an excellent post on the correlations between the trigrams and the wuxing some time ago.
Close but no cigar, if I remember right.
Can you please send me the link of this post?
1 hour ago, Mikeyboy1111 said:Ahh yes, Kumar is a great teacher (I am a former qigong student of his), especially so in the first two stages of the daoist approach to spiritual realisation e.g. lao tsu's traditional water meditation method. Even so, the third stage is not methodical. It is the approach of 'wu wei wu'. Here, the harmonising of the five elements, whose fusion created the Spirit foetus, creates Spirit realisation.
There are no different traditions when it comes to the authentic meaning of the trigrams and five elements. This is probably the root of your confusion and many others on trigram and five element understanding.
This rings true, thanks.
May I ask where have you learnt acupuncture? In the West (Western teacher) or in the East (Eastern teacher)?
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3 hours ago, yugenphoenix said:Been reading “Tao & Longevity” lately, great book of course, there’s great depth you can explore each time u pass thru. Nan Huai Chin mentions several times a thing called Huang Ting Ching, or Yellow Yard Sutra. I can’t find a translation on quick Google, anyone have a copy, or can point me in the right direction? It refers to Ching as heat, Ch’i as force, and Shen as light. Intrigued! Never heard it put that way and this time purusing the book it really struck me. Any info on that sutra to explore further would be awesome. Much love.
The Yellow Court Classic
Translated by Stuart Alve Olson - Vol1:
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15 hours ago, CityHermit! said:Doesn't Zhuangzi mention Zuowang?
Yes.
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2 hours ago, manitou said:I think the greatest challenge of all is to turn on the TV, watch the political news, and try and make no judgments.
Bingo, this is hard. I don't know if watching the news and trying to make no judgements is the greatest challenge but I have been struggling with this.
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17 hours ago, Jeff said:Then he did not have any subconscious mind activity around it. So your view is that the body causes emotions, and if one had something like a heart imbalance it would cause fears and emotions around love? Not that it was simply an mental anxiety around love, that could then begin to affect the body?
This is not my view.
These are the teachings of Classical Chinese Medicine but like I've said I'm no Dr. so no authority on this subject.
Don't take my word for it as it might be wrong. Best to find a Dr. of CCM or read books. Did I already say this is complex but fascinating stuff?
The Body, Mind, Spirit can't be considered independently, they are Three that form One. I'm not saying that the body causes emotions, they are the result of our interaction with the world and this is done through the senses.
What I'm saying is that the imbalance of the emotion is rooted in the Organ. The emotion affects one's qi and is not just a mental process. When I say Organ I'm not referring to the physical organ, this is explained in Nei Jing Su Wen.
An imbalance in the emotion anger is detrimental to the Wood Element - this is addressed by acupuncture.
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3 hours ago, Jeff said:Is not anger simply an autopilot response to some past memory or projected fear? Like if I get angry because someone tried to overcharge me for something at a store, is that not a "mental process" or mental response? The imbalance actually in the mind, even though aspects of it affect and spill over into the physical body?
No, the imbalance is in the Organ(s), the mind might be affected because of this.
What if the patient doesn't get angry because someone tried to overcharge him (a normal reaction to have)? When he doesn't seem to express (even suppressing it) Anger in a healthy and balanced way?
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14 hours ago, Jeff said:How is an emotional issue different from a mind issue?
3 hours ago, Jeff said:I still don’t quite understand the difference. As an example, is the emotion of anger not simply just a mental process of getting angry? Are you separating them into conscious and subconconscious mental processes, and calling the subconscious emotions (because people are not consciously aware of the mental process of getting angry)?
This is complex but fascinating stuff
You have to study it in the context of Classical Chinese Medicine and theory of Wu Xing - 5 Elements/Phases/Movements. Western Medicine only looks at the mind (this is changing) but it's more complicated than that.
Anger is not just a mental process of getting angry. It's the emotion related to the Wood Element.
There are 12 Organs in our body and they dwell in the 12 Main Meridians. The Liver and Gallbladder are the Wood Organs.
If you go to a Five Element Acupuncturist he'll check for signs that might show disharmony and unbalance in the 12 Organs in order to make a diagnosis (please note the patients symptoms have no importance here). He might check for your emotion of anger to see if it's balanced.
Even if it's only present in one Organ, that disharmony and unbalance affects the cycle of the Elements and can eventually cause damage to the other Organs as well (they're all connected).
Having made the diagnosis the Dr. will then have to choose at what level to place the treatment: Body, Mind or Spirit.
(Please forgive the oversimplification as I'm no Dr.)
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On 5/12/2018 at 2:53 AM, KuroShiro said:I'm having trouble understanding how what you're saying might not lead to blaming oneself.
This would make more sense to me:
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I see it as my failure for leaving things piled up rather than storing things appropriately or taking them home. ThenI look at it as an opportunity to let go of these things, whatever they may be and move on."I think now this makes sense to me:
"From now on I'll (try to) not leave things piled up. I'll store things or take them home." Then I look at it as an opportunity to let go of these things, whatever they may be and move on.
On 5/10/2018 at 11:40 PM, steve said:It is not easy, it is not something most people ever achieve in their lifetimes, even dedicated practitioners, but that's what it means.
That's the way we're asked to engage with our practices and our lives.
It's very important to be honest with ourselves about this. In the West, we find it very difficult to look at ourselves as inferior or even mediocre. It's painful and embarrassing. It's not as difficult in the East. If we try to practice at a level we have not reached, we will only be frustrated and fail to make progress. I'm mediocre at best but I'm making progress.
The interesting thing is that the more comfortable I become with this, the more liberated I feel - very counter-intuitive.
On 5/11/2018 at 11:37 PM, steve said:The challenging parts are letting go of different manifestations of ignorance... mistaking who we are at an absolute level with who we are at a relative level: over-identifying with the thoughts, the body, our projections, our emotions, etc... The next challenge is consistency and dedication. Next challenge is integration into life.
On 5/13/2018 at 3:32 PM, steve said:In a sense, it does the opposite of bolstering the ego.
It cuts right through.
That's what makes it so painful and shocking in extreme situations.
This seems to be important, no higher levels without transcending the ego. Would you say that when fully integrated into life this "cuts right through" is the ultimate finish line of this teaching?
On 5/11/2018 at 4:52 PM, silent thunder said:Recently, in January, I crossed over another level of understanding on this topic.
Lying in hospital, hovering on the line between alive and crossing over for several days as my blood went septic from the posioning due to the ruptures in my colon... I had the full experience of my own responsibility for all of it. Every bit of it. It was beyond just mere mental understanding... I experienced my responsibility in my bones, in my very blood.
It was one of the single most beautiful, bouyant and empowering moments I've ever experienced. Empowering as well... because the moment the cascade of understanding really bloomed in my awareness... the palpable sense that I had put myself there and thus, could also pull myself where I was drawn next... to health, or to the other side... I was no longer a helpless, poor me, streaming about in the river of fate.
When I claimed complete responsibility for being there, for the experience and the results... gratitude such as I have never known, opened up within and without... saturating me.
On 5/11/2018 at 11:46 PM, steve said:My own "break-throughs" have come through deep trauma and pain as well.
On 5/13/2018 at 7:36 PM, manitou said:When Silent Thunder was relating his astounding experience in the hospital, it very much reminded me of something that Eckhart Tolle says, and how his ego left his body at a time when there was so much pain and fear in him that he just couldn't take it any more. He just woke up one morning and it was all gone. The same sort of assurance came over him that came over Silent Thunder. It's as though he enlightened in a new way, due to the fact that he had somehow gotten underneath his ego to his essence with pain and fear as a catalyst.
Suffering leads/seems to lead to a connection to the Divine, no inner cultivation needed, I find this very interesting.
On 5/14/2018 at 12:20 AM, Nathan Brine said:Great discussion. 100% responsible for everything in our lives, as a practice not a philosophy. The Taoist lineage I’m involved with has the same practice. It’s powerful, life changing stuff. Before today I hadn’t heard anyone else talk about this, only my teacher, nice to know others have this too. Thanks for sharing Steve!
Could you please share more details? Do you put it in practice in the same way as Steve has explained regarding the application in daily life?
Was this teaching introduced to you in the context of Wu Xing or any other?
13 hours ago, silent thunder said:I wonder, to what level, how radically and deeply the conditioned aspects of personality can actually shift with awakening. Even in this it seems our essential nature in awakening does not erase personality, nor emotions, rather the relationship with them shifts.
Very interesting! Could you please elaborate about that shifting relationship? I think the Classics say personality disappears when one is no longer "operating at the frequency of Wu Xing"?
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On 5/10/2018 at 5:26 PM, silent thunder said:As it applies to daily life. I no longer perceive life and death as separate, they are one constant mingling fluid dance that resonates bliss, fulfillment, clarity and love in all phases. My awareness is drawn lately, daily... on my walks, when running errands, to the decay that supports all life... I find attention drawn to and lingers far longer with the brown decaying grasses, with the withering leaves and the fallen decaying aspects of nature... not the green, lush and full ones.
I am appreciating and experiencing on a deep level, the process of decay that nourishes all life.
This is the teaching that impacted me the most when reading about Wu Xing.
Thank you for your beautiful post.
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28 minutes ago, manitou said:What sometimes occurs to me is What would have happened if I hadn't been rear-ended by that texter? Might something more horrible have happened down the road? Did that actually save me from something? Who's to say?
Thank you sir/madam for rear-ended me.
I would pay to see his/her reaction.
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1 minute ago, Apech said:So? Carry on blaming till you get to a high spiritual level? I think I'd rather chuck blame out of the window now.
The opposite, you try to stop the blaming. But this is not an on/off switch, that would be easy, you can't "chuck blame out of the window now" - unless you know something I don't
in that case please share how you do it.
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3 minutes ago, Apech said:for me, forget blame, either for yourself or for the jerks - blaming others or blaming yourself is just weakening.
I like the idea of being able to respond to situations adequately (response-able)... in that sense being more able to deal with whatever shit life throws at you. I don't like the idea of making yourself the culprit. But I don't know anything about the Bon teaching Steve quoted. And although I read this thread I got a bit lost in the back and forth.
I don't think you can forget blame, at least not until you're at a higher level as Steve has confirmed.
To me this seems to be a path to walk on, (perhaps) complemented by other practices. You try to put it in practice and that will change you, gradually. Then there might be moments of sudden realization and if I understand it correctly once you're at a higher level there is no such thing as "shit life throws at you".
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4 hours ago, Mudfoot said:Isn't it Liu I-Ming that though that daoism was in a sorry state, people studying Nei Dan classics but ending up wanking off or moving a bit of Qi instead of realizing the Dao?
And those practitioners he critisized had access to teachers, didn't have to rely on translations, and still ended up by a side door.
Shows how difficult this area is. 😁
I think I've read he only found true teachings in his seventies or eighties. That gives some hope.
1 hour ago, Kar3n said:You are not under attack, please create another thread if you wish to speak further on anything other than the OP.
Thanks for your cooperation.
This has brought back a very old memory. I went to youtube and sure enough:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx2G3OCVRNk
Thank you!2 hours ago, Starjumper said:to do astral projection you had to have no negative thoughts or comments for about seven years ... so each day I tell myself: "dang, seven more years to go".
Thanks to you too! This is pure gold but now I think I've just laughed the equivalent of 3 months as the Classics warn of overjoy.
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On 4/17/2018 at 4:13 AM, dontknwmucboutanythng said:What to do when anxiety is due to a serious health issue of oneself or love ones? Thanks.
I'd say go to a good acupuncturist.
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23 hours ago, steve said:Yes
Blame is usually defined as assigning responsibility for a fault or a wrong.
In the Dzogchen teachings the core message is that there is no fault, there is no wrong, everything is precisely as it is.
Nothing is out of place.
Dzogchen means great perfection, that describes our natural state.
So blame is irrelevant although responsibility for the practitioner is paramount.
I'm a beginner so take what I say with a grain of salt, but that's my interpretation.
I understand what you're saying about the Dzogchen teachings but blame should be irrelevant only when you're already at a higher level, no? Don't you have to deal with blame if you're just starting to put these teachings into practice?
23 hours ago, steve said:Someone was inappropriately instructed to throw away personal belongings of several people where I work this morning, including my own. Several people were furious and gave them both a hard time. I see it as my failure for leaving things piled up rather than storing things appropriately or taking them home. Then I look at it as an opportunity to let go of these things, whatever they may be and move on.
In general, when someone makes a mistake or causes me a problem, I do my best to look at how I could have anticipated or prevented it rather than blame or punish them for their actions. After all, they are just the agent of the universe in action. It puts me in mind of Zhuangzi's parable The Empty Boat.
I'm having trouble understanding how what you're saying might not lead to blaming oneself.
This would make more sense to me:
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I see it as my failure for leaving things piled up rather than storing things appropriately or taking them home. ThenI look at it as an opportunity to let go of these things, whatever they may be and move on."23 hours ago, steve said:Once again, there is no blame here.
Karma is simply an observation, not a force or entity to bear blame or responsibility.
I look at it more like a mathematical equation or physical process.
Actions lead to consequence.
Right and wrong, good and bad, blame and fault... these are simply judgements we assign based on our perspective and conditioning. Such judgement doesn't exist outside of the mind. This seems to me to be similar to Chapter 5 of the Dao De Jing that discusses straw dogs.
Forgive my ignorance, I know nothing about karma. I thought it was related to good/bad, right/wrong.
23 hours ago, steve said:No better field of practice than driving! Someone cuts me off or aggressively pushes in front, rather than looking at it as their fault and getting angry or aggressive, I try to see it as my responsibility to anticipate their maneuver, their need, and accommodate them. I recently had the insight to try and drive in such a way as to always try to make the other driver feel comfortable.
Let's say in this situation one has made progress and no longer shouts and honks at the other driver. No external reactions but thoughts of anger... still arise, what do you do then? Do you let go of that thought and jump to "try to see it as my responsibility to anticipate their maneuver, their need, and accommodate them."?
I try to do that as well - defensive driving - mainly to avoid accidents, etc. Now that I think about it, this does seems to lead to some sort of self erasing, putting the focus away from the self during the drive. When I drive on the highway lots of cars very close to each other pass me and I blame them
- these guys don't know how to drive, there shouldn't be any accidents on a highway...
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We can't handle the ...
nevermind
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The Tao of disappointment
in Daoist Discussion
Posted
He seems to be a Quanzhen Master and Vice-President of the Chinese Taoist Association, who teaches in Belgium and France:
http://taoisme.be/activites/activites-ponctuelles/article/11-15-avril-2015-seminaire?lang=fr