Desmonddf

I find it amusing how Daoists believe there is no "immortal soul" but many do believe in the existence of ghosts and spirits of the dead...

Or how people disregard the Ego and Conscienciousness as a mix of Shen, Hun and Pi, and then think that, as long as you don't have Zhi and Po, you'll disappear. Or that Shen and Pi disappear as well.

 

"Something" who used to be "someone" can think for itself, is conscious of its state and reactive to the environment. It doesn't feel impulses coming from the body (like procriation, eating or run-or-fight instinct), nor bodly sensations. That's the only difference between it and me and you. Can it really be called "not who he was"? "Not someone's soul"? 

Anyhow.

Neidan is a name without a definite meaning. It can be understood as a mass of bobbling pride-and-arrogance which has been feeding on peoples "wants" through the years (especially since the cult-witch-hunt made yoga less popular on the USA, opening a new market for mystical experiences), and can be acessed through this name, or as the form people refeer to some texts and ideas - which usually don't have much in common.

 

There is no single official means of enforcing the meaning of "neidan", so anyone is free to call anything they want by this name.

Meridians aren't made of physical matter.

One of the best arguments about that comes from the existence of meridians that ENTER the body and go through the organs and meat in general.

The "TCM meridians" we see on most maps are only a very small portion of the real TCM meridians, which include divergent channels, Luo (connection) channels, Xue (blood) channels, Ying Qi channels, tendino-muscular channels ( those which could indeed be related to muscular fascia), deep channels, marrow channels, substance-oceans, rivers, lakes and wells, and so on.

On another words, unless you have connective tissue in the middle of your heart or collagen in the middle of your brain and eyes (places were meridians DO exist and go through), no, meridians aren't made of connective tissue or collagen.

Indeed, we have even meridians in the middle of our spinal chord. The divergent Kidney channel starts at the knees and go all the way up to your spine, then enters the spine at the Ming Men and go to your dantian at VC4. Later it raises through your organs and get to your heart. Later yet it raises again and goes to the tongue, and from there to the brain and eyes. And the divergent Conception Vessel channel goes through the whole of the spine.

That being said, yes, acupuncture points do seem to influence and be influenced by electricity - as well as pressure.

One method of diagnosys is based on pressing the accupoint. If it hurts or feels WAY too soft (lacks tonus) then that represents either an excess or a deficiency in energy in that acupoint.

That do coincides with electric variations in points in regards to the skin around them. That is to say, if you're measuring the electric conductivity of an acupoint in the middle of your arm, you need to make it compared to the surrounding tissue, not, for instance, the electric conductivity of your hand.

Our skin has naturally different conductive potentials (due to things like sweat and the amount of blood flowing in that part of the body), so that has to be taken into account.

That said, not only is electro-measuring an efficient means of diagnosys, it can be used for treatment as well.
 

However, that is were things get complicated - TCM isn't only about the meridians, it also includes the organs (the physical ones), bones, marrow, blood (not Xue, but common blood) and etc.

So an energetic/meridian-based diagnosys will be only a small part on the general diagnosys - since it will give you clues about what is happening on all levels, but not a definitive answer.

 

For instance. You can have a blockage of energy on your Small Intestine channel. Some people would think "oh, then he must have intestinal problems!". However, the Small Intestine channel is the yang-most of the channels, and it is frequently aflicted by perverse energy.

 

Most of the times, energy invading the Small Intestine meridian will travel from there either to other yang meridian - like the Large Intestine or Bladder meridians - and then get into contact with the Lung meridian and, from there, invade the Lungs.

 

So, while the germs and viruses are happily trying to fixate themselves on your lungs, the perverse cold energy is wreacking havoc on your body. Once the germs and the energy combine in the organs, however, that is when you get sick.

 

And that is also why things like getting hit by wind on your face can give you disease.

 

Now, talking about what meridians are:

 

If you could increase your energy sensitivity to the point where you can see (with your eyes) the denser forms of energy moving on a person's body (the Ying Qi), then you would be able to see what seems like small black lines going through it.

 

Sometimes, for some reason, these black lines become engorged, or even form "balls" and "black areas" around some part of the body.

 

Sometimes, they are barely visible, or even invisible.

 

Those are the meridians, and the thing flowing in them is Ying Qi which has been through the whole blood circulation and is now circulating in the meridians (Ying Qi first circulates on your blood, inside the blood vessels, and only then enters the meridians). 

 

The places were there are black masses are acupoints (places were energy goes through and which act as "gates" somehow, since they can block its flow) which present blockages, and the places where there are no lines are places where there is no (or almost no) energy going through.

 

If you get one of those black places and apply pressure into it, the person will fell a good amount of a very particular type of pain (which most people used to physical pain will still think "shit, this hurts!" while regular people won't feel much more pain than them) and that place will slowly start to relax and allow for the energy to flow again.

 

This will release a lot of pressure from the place, and will eventually start to show signs - like inflamations going away, muscles relaxing, diseases having its symptoms alleviated, reduced pain, etc, etc. Sometimes you'll even be able to completely eliminate some kind of bodly disarmony (such as a disease, be it physical, emotional or mental).

 

This energy and its flows also affect the emotions and thoughts of a person.

 

Then, if you go deeper into the rabbit hole, you'll notice that these meridians also act a lot like tubes - they can get blocked because the energy inside of them is too thick, for instance, even without stopping at a certain acupoint.

 

Yes, I have gonne through this (through possession), yes I have obtained results, no, false-puncture did not generate the same effects on other people.

 

Many times affecting a point near a blockage, however, is affecting the blockage itself - as it is a mass of energy, much like a haematoma, not mentioning that, by affecting an acupoint away from a certain place, you can also affect that place.

Still, many acupoints do not dissolve or alleviate the black energy masses.

 

That's it.

5 hours ago, MIchael80 said:

Totally agree with all what you said! (also in previous posts on this topic)

 

I have met a lineage holder of an longmen lineage. He teaches when asked and is on facebook but he does not show his mastery....only when the would be students can sense it and ask him does he reveal himself.

He is currently earth immortal stage which seems unbelievable when one is not within those cirles.....and he lives in a city but trained in china in seclusion under his teachers guidance. So i know that you are right...these circles exists! (and they have "unbelievable" results)

 

All the full alchemy knowledge is only passed on oraly and these texts are not worth anything without direct experierence and a teachers guidance. One thing that can be said is that the alchemical process is not as complicated as the old texts make it seem.

 

all the best on your way!

M

 

Please do share his profile if you can.

 

  

I've been overreactive. Sorry. 

 

However, please do think aboi this: 

 

The basis of all systems which include the five movements are the ideas of correspondence and ressonance.

 

The Yellow Emperor called himself "yellow" and dressed in yellow because his reign happened during a predominance of yellow between  the earth and the sky - and he harmonized with it. 

 

That is the basys for everything. Now, waidan and neigong are external and internal sides of the same thing : alchemy. 

 

Only through uniting both in and out, yin and yang, and then working with then, will you be able to complete de whole of the thing. 

 

The whole of alchemy, as well as the whole of "changing humans through alchemy" can only be achieved by practicing waidan and neigong at the same time. 

 

So, when it says you must stirr the cauldron, that means both stirring the outside cauldron and the inside cauldron. 

 

When you add Vermillion, you must do it both inside and outside. When you add cinnabar, also. 

 

Thats how you can purify the yang (souls and qi) through yin (internal alchemy), and the yin (blood, marrow and liquids) through the yang (external alchemy).

 

Internal pills, exercises and elixirs will keep you warm, motivated, sane and vigorous through your Qi and souls. 

 

As external pills and exercises will keep you young, vigorous and in good physical health. Many of them being herbal medicinal compounds.

 

Of course, at a certain level you will not need either. Once you can freely turn Yang into Yin and Yin into Yang (for example, blood into qi and qi into blood), you'll be able to reach a new level of alchemy where there is no separation. Good feeling can become eternal life, good food can be made into mental power, and so on. 

 

Body can be turned into soul, and soul can be made into body - it is the ability to ascend and descend in the more literal sense of the word !

 

Get my point ?

 

Well, I won't talk about "not mixing weidan and neigong" because I do think that is not taking into account that one cannot exist without the other.

 

Without taking into account Neigong, and practicing it, you cannot use Waidan. It is the same as thinking the western alchemists were trying to make real lead turn into gold or producing a real Elixir of Eternal life by mixing dangerous substances, many of which were potentially psychodelic, as at least one of the alchemy recipes I've found will produce ethyl chloride if you take out the "creepy witchcraft" most alchemist associate with alchemy, like semen or blood, and simply substitute it by alcohol - be it from hard liquor or even medieval wine.

 

Is it really easier to believe that a cultured man who could read, potentially at least two to three languages, not to mention being of whealth and power, would believe that mixing mercury and sulphur would give them a physical stone which would produce gold?

 

They probably even didn't want any gold to begin with, as most who had access to the money needed to buy all lab equipements had more than enough already! Not to mention they probably were christians as well, so living eternaly on earth was the same as having eternal life in hell.

 

Western alchemy, in my view, is about producing "safe" psychodelics (unlike LSA from rye, which caused brain damage) which could enrich one's philosophical and metaphysical explorations.

So, please forgive me if I look at ideas like "Waidan and neigong can't be mixed" with a grain of salt.

 

About Po and Hun, do notice that by projecting the consciousness outside of one's body, one is indeed separating his souls from the body. The more souls you bring with you, the more complete you'll be able to be. By bringing only the Hun, you'll enter certain meditative states, but will not feel like you're out of your body. You'll just feel that nothing in the world can bother you, and be completely passive about the physical world around you, therefore entering a state which, indeed, could be understood as "being everlasting". By bringing Shen as well, you'll become conscious out of your body. By bringing Yi, you'll be able to reason. And by bringing Zhi you'll be able to change the ethereal world with your willpower.

 

Bringing the Po, however, is indeed risky - it will give you the ability to influence the physical plane, but while the other four cannot be physically harmed and can be easily healed if harmed non-physicaly, the Po indeed will immediately affect your physical body if harmed - not to mention it CAN be physically harmed as well.

 

p.s: Men are true yang and women are true yin ? Only if the men is on fire and the woman's corpse dissolved into a puddle already. Otherwise, they are as impure as living humans can be. But then again, "alchemists want to make gold out of lead". It is so convenient for the "secret of the sages" to be about sex (which is a taboo and easily incites the masse's imagination) than to be about "boring" and "useless" things like having mind-blowing experiences which allow you to dissociate your thoughts from yourself, and "yourself" from individuality.

 

 

On 29/11/2018 at 10:41 PM, Bindi said:

 

Water should ascend and fire descend, do they merge at some point? Or do they endlessly cycle? 

 

 

 

 

From TCM:

The kidneys actually work to push energy upwards. The lungs make it go donwards, towards the kidneys, and once Zheng Qi is produced, then it is pumped upwards by the Kidney Qi.

 

It separates into Wu Qi and Ying Qi while going up, and then the Ying Qi is spread through the body by the lungs and heart. You can see the whole process if you pay attention to the ying qi inside someone's Kidney channel - it receives all of the body's energy through the bladder channel at Bladder 67, which connects to Kidney 1, and there rises upwards until it reaches the heart and enters on it.

 

It also has some parallel flows, for instance it connects to the Conception Vessel at CV 1 (the famous perineum point everyone loves), and there it enters the spine. From that place it again enters the body through Ming Men (GV 4) and connects directly to the kidneys, and from there to the Qi Sea (which is "coincidentaly" right were one's Dan Tian on Nei Gong terminology would be...), where it finds its end.

 

This process can be understood as "Water thus turns into a fiery furnace " that the friend above posted. The whole process of the "boy and the girl avoiding wasting" is just what happens when the Bladder 67 point goes to the Kidney 1 point. A lot of impure energy is discharged at the feet, and the one that's not discharged is then collected by the Kidneys.

 

It will then go up and become pure Kidney Qi which will nourish and warm (Qi mainly warms) the whole body - including the DanTian, the Heart, the Ming Men... anyhow.

 

So, yes, water is pushed upwards once it reaches the deepest parts of the deep, and the same with fire - as the Tai Yang channel (Small Intestine) pushes things donwards towards the bladder channel (which connects to all channels and brings down energy from their all).

 

Besides that, you also have the eight extraordinary channels, which make energy go upwards or donwards by themselves. The Yin Qiao Mai, for instance, is considered to be an extention of the kidney meridian, and also makes energy go upwards - except it goes straight to your eyes instead of going to the lungs as the kidney meridian goes.

This is an interpretation based in TCM and Five Movements Theory. The basys is that this poem is about either about Alchemy or Nei Gong, not anything else.

 

 

 

Quote

Hold True Lead firmly

 

Lead is metal. Metal within one's body that can be controled is breath.

So, "hold your breath firmly".

 

 

Quote

and seek with intention;

 

Do not simply hold your breath. Do it with intention, that is, in a meditating and aware state.

 

Quote

 

do not let time

easily slip by.

 

 

Avoid losing conscienciousness or letting your mind idle.

 

Quote

 

Just let the earthly po-soul

seize the Mercury in the Vermilion,

 

 

The earthly po-soul is the esoteric yang-most part of the lungs. It is more yang than Qi, and is very close to Shen (spirit) in nature.

 

Vermilion is a red pigment made from mercury sulfide (mercury + sulphur). So, this means to "let the soul of the lungs purify the impurities on the mercury inside of you".

As for what mercury is, it could be literal mercury by the ingestion of cinnabar (Vermilion in the text), or something else.

 

Ancient chinese believed that, by ingesting cinnabar (raw form of mercury, which contains sulphur) one would achieve longevity through alchemy.

Mercury is considered to be Yin and sulphur to be Yang. Refining the cinnabar inside of you means to take the Yin (mercury) from inside of the Yin-Yang (Cinnabar).

 

On a more esoteric approach, Vermillion can also mean the Zhong Qi, the Chest Qi, which is a mix of energy from the air (Xin Qi), energy from the foods and drinks (Gu Qi) and energy from the Heart (Xin Qi - written on another way than the first).

 

By holding one's breath with intention, it is possible to deplete the Zhong Qi and transform it back into Xin Qi, that is, to take the Air Qi from inside the Chest Qi.

 

Quote

 

and you will have the celestial hun-soul by itself

controlling the Metal in the Water.

 

 

Hun is the Soul in the Liver, and also one of the most esoteric souls in chinese esoterism. It is less yang than Shen, but many texts believe it survives death, while Shen wouldn't do it. It also is able to resist reincarnation, so it would be the link between one's current and previous lives.

 

Some even say that it is the Hun that gives birth to all other souls, upon reincarnation. I do not believe this theory, as it is a Wood soul, and Wood doesn't give birth but to Fire and Ashes.

 

Anyhow, so far we have been holding our breath. The Hun is also the Reactive, the Instinctive, the Protective soul. It is the soul that reacts to anything that happens in the body, and it is tasked with keeping harmony - like a general.

 

By holding your breath, you'll stirr your Hun. By depleting the Chest Qi, however (that is, by holding your breath with intention and keeping yourself calm through meditation), it is possible to force the Hun to remain calm.

 

Metal in the Water is the source of True Qi. Air Qi flows into the Kidneys and there, with Gu Qi and under the works of Yuan Qi, is transformed into True Qi (Zheng Qi).

 

If you're holding your breath, then there is no Air Qi to go bellow. Once the Chest Qi is depleted and there is no more metal, your Hun will try to exert counter-dominance (destructive cicle) over any Metal it finds in your body - which will be the remnant Metal (Air) in your Kidneys. It will then dominate it, forcing it to become harmonious and even short and limited, eventually even destroying it completely.

 

Quote

 

One can say that when the Way is lofty,

Dragon and Tiger are subdued,

 

 

If you manage to obtain maestry in this (lofty Way)

 

Then you won't feel anger or impulses, that is, the need to react to all things while losing the control over the Hun.

 

Usually the Hun is controled by breathing - as Metal controls Wood. Then, it ignites the Shen (heart) and makes you lose your consciousness and clarity of mind (the Shen is forced out of the heart and lose its roots in it).

 

However, if you manage to hold your breath and still remain conscious all the time, you'll then be able to subdue this kind of instinctive reaction.

 

Quote

 

and it may be said that when Virtue is hefty,

gods and demons are restrained.

 

 

When it becomes difficult to be Virtuous (hefty Virtue), the Benevolent Rulers (gods) and Fierce Rebels (demons) inside yourself (your instinctive reasonings and workings to keep the body active) are restrained.

 

That is, you'll be able to remain Virtuous, even when your own mind, believes and other mental, internal or somewhat instinctive and unconscious aspects try to act without Virtue, be it by benevolence to yourself (gods) or to rebel against the tyranny you impose on your own destiny, by sticking to Virtue despite the cost (demons).

 

Quote

 

Once you know that your longevity

equals that of Heaven and Earth,

 

 

Heavens and Earth are eternal. Obtain the knowledge about your own eternity can be understood as many things, but the main point is that, once you reach it...

Quote

 

troubles and vexations have no way

to rise to your heart.

 

 

 

Nothing will bother you anymore, and no mater the situation, you'll remain calm and able to exert Virtue.

 

 

So, summing it up:

 

In an practical alchemy interpretation:

Eat a cinnabar (raw mercury) and hold your breath for as long as possible without losing consciousness. You'll feel your chest tighten, but remain calm. Eventually, you'll feel an urgent need to breathe and react to not breathing, your whole body will turn weak, especially your lower back. Don't worry, that's to be expected.

 

No, it is not healthy, but this isn't about making an elixir. It is about learning to be Virtuous doesn't matter when.

 

Eventually, once you master this art, you'll be able to remain calm and Virtuous no matter the situation, for you'll learn that you're immortal and everlasting.

 

(Note: This probably comes from a successfull astral projection, which is also understood as the Hun leaving the body. Once you notice that your Hun exists outside of your body, and that it is immortal, you're supposed to accept anything that happens to your body, no matter what, because you know you're immortal and everlasting.

The cinnabar will help by releasing mercury inside of you, which will in turn make your digestion and whole earth-related system very heavy and unable to properly work. Depleted, indeed. With the grip (earth dominates water) on your Willpower -Zhi- released by depleting your earth-qi, you'll be able to remain conscious and calm for a longer time, due to sheer willpower. With enough calmness and keeping consciousness active all the time, it is easier to achieve an astral -or Hun- projection, as the easier way to do it is to remain conscious as your body enter a sleeping state).

 

 

 

In pracical Nei Gong interpretation:

 

Restrain your breath and remain calm and conscious. You'll feel all that I described above, and must pay attention to it - by remaining aware of the movements of the energy inside your body, you'll become able to better control your Hun and Liver Qi, as this technique is meant to stimulate its actions and reactions as strongly as possible.

That is, this is a technique to learn awareness of your Liver Qi and Hun, in which turn can be controled through your Shen later on, allowing you to become Virtuous no matter the situation, by directly controling (with intention and Spirit) your Liver Qi.

 

Also, you'll learn to identify when your control is being overly strong (that is, when your Liver has been so active it starts to hurt your kidneys) which is when it is time to go find a place to work this anger out of your system.

 

 

That's it. Hope it was of any use.

 

 

Obs: I suppose "True Yin" refers to the body without a soul, and "True Yang" to the souls without the body. Learning to "release True Yang from True Yin" means learning how to release/control your souls without the need of using your body (for instance, breathing) ^^

 

16 hours ago, Demetrios said:

Desmonddf, which religion practices do you follow?

 

It's called "Umbanda". Togheter with "Espiritismo" it forms the basis of necromantic (or spiritists) religions on Brazil.

 

Both are de-centralized religions (obviously, since it's based on contact with the dead and giving more face to them then to earth and earthly leaders) with non-canonical (obviously, since it's decentralized) myths and origin stories. In the end, the real deal with both isn't to explain nature or the formation of the world, but rather to give people hands-on experience with some things - like the spirits of the dead, wisdom and esoteric knowledge (the last is a little rare... people have to be engaged on actively learning from the spirits and ask them for knowledge in order to receive most of it).

 

You can see a bit of it here :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbhhKneTor0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrydSkQril0
 

My own temple is called Fraternidade Kayman. We are of an offshot umbanda tradition, called Umbandaime Cristão da Nova Era. This is a mixed tradition, based mostly on what the spirit-in-chief of the house, Pai João, managed to accomodate on his own practices and spirituality.

 

The basics lean heavily on Umbanda, since that was the very beginning of the temple. However, there are oriental elements, as well as maçonic (we do have a few maçons in the temples' staff, and they are more than happy to share some stuff) and so on.

 

Probably the most controversial aspect of the temple, however, is the use of the enteogen Santo Daime. It's an ayahuasca brew made following the recipe and ritual of a century-old ayuasca tradition and church from Brazil (and the only enteogen which is allowed by law to be used), the Santo Daime.

 

Not everyone uses it, however, and the use is not mandatory. I have used it a few times, but i haven't done it on thursdays (the umbanda practice) for a couple of years already.

 

This video despicts the last thursday of 2016, which was an Umbanda session:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfK2q3NOD_M

 

On 11/10/2013 at 6:33 AM, effilang said:

 

 

 

 

First of all, i'm very sorry for reviving this old thread. It's just that it suddenly appeared when i was researching about Hou Tian and Xian Tian (in another context), and it made me very interested.

 

I have a few questions, and ask that mr.effilang answers then, if possible. If not, than sorry for bothering you!

 

 

A question i have, as an acupuncturist:

 

What is it meant to become more Yin or more Yang ?

 

As much as my poor understanting is concerned, you could very well freeze yourself or lit yourself on fire for those purposes, haha.

 

No offense meant.

 

I guess the right question would be : What exactly is becoming more Yin ? And what exactly is becoming more Yang?

 

 

 

What is the "tao of origination" ?

 

I do understand that "the dao that can be named isn't the real dao", and that we have at least 2 types of Dao - one which is a very abstract concept, and one which is beyond conceptuation.

 

That is to say, one which is almost impossible to grasp mentaly, which to whom we own the very possibility of talking about "dao" here, and one which is indeed impossible to grasp.

 

Are we talking about this?

 

Also, why would we "return" to such thing ?

I have found the concept of "returning to the source" in many esoteric schools, but it never appealed to me on a level of "this is what i want!". Instead, i'm more of a transcendentalist - i wish to be able to freely travel between the beyond-mind and the mind. To exist simultaneously on the origin and on the moment.

 

Does it make sense, or "returning" is the only right thing to do?

 

(I mean,  i came all the way down here, why should i give up on this just to return home empty-handed?)
 

 

 

This is something which just makes my head hurts.

 

The concept of a "body" itself is Yin. In order to have a massive, extremely sturdy and powerfull body, one would have to have a body which is full of Yin - massive bones, for isntance.

 

It always seems like Daoism is looking at Yin with unjust contempt. Isn't the balance between Yin and Yang the source of life, instead of the presence of more yang?

At least in TCM, excess of yang will give you strong fever and kill you way faster than a depletion of yang (fake cold)!

 

As a TCM practioneer, i see yin as important and necessary as yang. If you want a long life, you must have just as much yin as you have yang!

 

I mean, of course, a body brimming in vitality is yang when compared to a dead body. But the dead body is in an imbalance. It's not that the peak-of-life body has more yang, it's that it has enough yang to balance its yin!

 

Is this just me being picky or something?... Anyway...

 

In cultivation, shouldn't one increase it's affinity with both yin and yang in order to broaden their existance and eventually reach beyond not only "ascension" but also "descension" ?

 

Being able to ascend to the heavens is marvelous. Becoming trapped there, unnable to come down, or remain forever unable to reach the underworld, by its time, seems more like a limitation than a blessing.

 

Shouldn't one cultivate the ability to "ascend" and also the one to "descend" in order to achieve beyond immortality, to the realm of transcendence?

 

 

In TCM we talk about post-natal Jing being accumulated through properly living - eating, sleeping, working, playing...

 

How can meditation by itself accumulate Jing ?

 

I do know that qi can be absorbed through some visualization exercises and energetic absorbtion practices. And i do know that our bodies naturaly transform Ying Qi in Post-Natal Jing after it goes through the blood and meridians - then storing it at the eight extraordinary vessels.

 

Is that the kind of process that's being hinted at here?

 

Absorbing Qi directly from the environment, then adding it to ones' blood and letting it accumulate as post-natal Jing?

 

If so, how can we stop the consumption of Yuan Qi from the Kidney (which is used to turn external qi into Zheng Qi), if we are still using the regular nutrition channels?

 

Unless what's being hinted here is that one must use it's Shen to refine the external energy by itself, avoiding the use of Yuan Qi by directly transmutating the external qi?

 

 

I do know that Ying Qi becomes post-natal Jing. However, that's only after going through multiple transformations in the body, that is, after moving the yin (blood, organs, etc) and being transformed by the yang (emotions).

That process hints at the Xian Tian being a process where some kind of energy (like the Ying Qi) first becomes densified and polluted to the extreme (by going through the Bones, Organs and Blood) and then being heated and purified also to the extreme (by going through the Meridians, Tendons and Souls). This way, the impurities absorbed through the "meddling with the impure (yin)" are then refined and become harmonious, naturally turning into a physical treasure - Post-Natal Jing, which is dense as the impure blood and organs, but pure and precious.

Is the transformation of Shen into Qi based on this same principle ? (Directing Shen to the densest parts of the souls, that is, starting with the Po, and then circulating it through all other souls and finally by the Ba Hui and other spiritual doors in the body, so allowing for the impurities it absorbed in the souls to be purified?).
 

 

This so called Yang Principle doesn't seem to steem from the pre-natal Jing, then. Instead, it seems to say that one is in perpetual deficience of yang in the body, except at the exact age of 16 years old.

 

However, how to understand that at the light of so many who don't have yang deficiency but, rather, yin deficiency ?

Some even have it from birth, due to the pre-natal Jing not being that good.

 

 

 

That's ok for the western senses, but the 5 senses we talk about in TCM don't include touch, however, i have been taught that the 5 senses in TCM don't include touch.

They are Smell, Speech, Sight, Hearing and Taste.

Were did touch come from?

 

 

The aging process in TCM is explained by the loss of pre-natal Jing. What is this "negative yin principle" which seems to be coming from the outside ?

 

 

 

I'd like to point that, as an acupuncturist, this is one of the bigger points of frustration i have with most neigong systems.

 

From what i have seen, sexual celibacy in men tend to generate heat-phleugm (or even heat-mucosity) symdroms. As for stopping menstruation, i do not know the technique, but it seems fishy to me.

 

Do you know any works on the medicinal aspects of semen retention and cutting off someones' period? The esoteric works may praise it, but i sincerely don't see how to conciliate the medicinal view on it with the esoteric view.

 

 

 

This is the main point where your text got me hooked up. As i said, i'm a medium. I have contact with spirits in an almost daily basis.

 

Now, there's a spirit which is near me and seems to have a master-disciple relation with me. My religion practices a kind of "willing possession" mediunic frame, in which we concede our bodies to the spirits to work with. One of the main rules is that the possession must be in accordance to the mediuns' will, and anything out of it is met with quite a punch to the spiritual face

 

(small note : spirits do have a really hard time to possess a medium which is unwilling. The spirit just have a lot of strenght over its own body when it has one. Also, spirits are only rarely able to interact with those outside of their emotional range. So, a spirit of great compassion requires that you are able to at least touch the lower boundaries of its compassion to be able to possess your body).

That said, my wife is also a medium, and this spirit has possessed her a few times - in which it has treated me with TCM, including tui-na, acupuncture, moxa and cupping.

The effects were wonderful, and this spirit has also given me pointers on the Dao and said that it was willing to guide me on qigong as long as i became able to correctly interact with him. Is this what you guys do? Or is it something else?

 

On 10/04/2018 at 10:42 PM, Lataif said:

(1) A recurring type of comment in this forum is:  "You can't learn from

books" . . . "You need a teacher" . . . and  "Details can't be discussed here".

 

(2) Basically:  some knowledge is dangerous for people and should only

be shared/explored in context of teacher/student relationship.

 

(3) Really (?)

 

(4) What's the rationale for such a conclusion (?)

 

(5) Does the Dao care if 999,999 people go crazy trying a practice . . . as

long as the millionth person succeeds with it (?) 

 

(6) BTW:  If beginning in the 1960s, the thousands of years of Chinese

secrets hadn't been revealed  to the West (including you and me) . . .

 they'd have been lost.

 

(7) My opinion: There are more realized Taoists in the West today than in

China.

 

(8) And how about:  centuries of Judo training in Japan . . . and within a

couple of generations of training, the Dutch were kicking the ass of the

Japanese  (?)

 

 

Please forgive me if i say things which are wrong.

 

1 - There are secrets which protect themselves. "You need to learn from a teacher" can have this kind of meaning. For instance, you cannot understand the taste of something never-before-tasted without someone cooking it for you. People may say "it tastes like chiken, but juicier".... well, will you start eating various meats and when you find some chicken which is juicier than normal, that means you found the right meat?

 

The same thing applies to many, many esoteric aspects of reality - the secret protects itself. For instance, i used to think prana, qi and reiki were the same thing until i began practicing a bit of yoga, became an acupuncturist and was initiated in reiki.

 

They are different   - as for HOW they differentiate amongst themselves, well... it's the feeling, the effects, the things they do inside and outside of you... basicaly everything, lol ._.

 

2 - This can be either derived out of the persons' own morals or an excuse. People do not like to teach regular humans how to turn batery water into sulphuric acid - because in the process you probably will expose the person to toxic fumes. Not everyone can proudly expose others to knowledge which may dissolve their lungs. That is even quite reckless. It's a matter of the person worried about itself and its own peace of heart than with others...

 

3, 4, 5 - Didn't understand, sorry.

However, i'd like to add that there is a very mundane reason for secrets : Power struggles are a reality, and our day and era may seem void of them (as if they didn't matter anymore), but that is only the proff that someone (or a very small amount of 'someones') have overwelming power above all others.

 

The power struggles will never end, because struggling is the nature of power. As long as we are talking power, and as long as someone cares about power and manages their resources with power in mind, some secrets so shall remain secrets - as much as our "era of information" so allows, of course

 

obs: False information seems to be the prefeered way of dealing with secrets these days. People will release a huge amount of fake information in order to cover up the real secrets and make people misinformed. Excess of information is as much as a poison as it is to have no access at it at all.

 

6 - Necromancy . Or, if you want to say that the dead don't talk (i disagree), you can always remember that all kinds of esoteric arts have had some kind of beginning, an inception of sorts. It can happen again, regardless of which it is.

 

7 - Cannot argue in favor or against such idea. My personal feelings, however, are that the score for "accomplishment" in the west has always been too low... (seriously, OBE as the 'peak' of anything is seriously weird). Also, the East have too many people which we don't know anything about. So, i keep having faith that most accomplished people are in the East. Otherwise, it would be just sad...

 

8 - Sport is very different from martial arts. Sambo and Muay Thai, for example, are well known for not holding any kind of "competitions". That's because they're really deadly. Traditional Judo, Gong-Fu, as well as Aikido and other such martial arts are made to break bones, crush things in your body which can go "pop" and squish organs. I believe we cannot compare both, sorry.

 

I have used Tarot as both a way to magicaly work my energy (back when i used the 7-chakra system), magical weapons and also power sources for a personal altar i once assembled.

 

It worked wonders.

 

As long as you tap into the tarot symbols the right way, there are a lot of mysteries, powers, entities and energies you can access and, then, use them for whatever purpose you have.

 

I cannot tell you the way i used, however, since i don't know how to do it, haha. I just sensed the energy and used the cards as portals, weapons and so on. I'm very sensitive to the energy the Rider Waite tarot emits continuously, so.... it was kinda easy, but highly unconcious. I just followed my inspiration on the moment.

Greetings.

 

This is a simple topic. In TCM we have Jing (essence) divided into prenatal essence and postnatal essence.

 

However, there is another name for it. Pre-Heaven Jing and Post-Heaven Jing.

 

If i'm not wrong, the Ba Gua exists also in a Pre-Heaven (or Primordial) sequence and a Later (Post-Heaven ?) sequence.

 

Please note i'm still very inexperienced in Yijing.

 

Anyway. Is there any relation between Pre-Heaven and Post-Heaven in both systems?

 

If there is, then this could explain why Pre-Heaven Jing cannot be restored in the body (once the Kidneys start to form it would have entered them and no more Pre-Heaven could be formed, since the embrio would feed from the mothers' Yuan Qi instead of storing and purifying it), alas Post-Heaven Jing is continously created.

 

Thanks for your time.

Thecnicaly speaking, it is impossible to restore your prenatal Jing.

What can be restored is your postnatal jing.

 

You prenatal jing can be reforced or purified, even making you look younger (some people seem to look 10 years younger after a few sessions) but its amount will forever remain the same. 

 

To reforce and purify your prenatal jing, choose points like VC4 and E36 for moxibustion. There are some which are specific for that purpose, but i don't remember them by name right now.

I don't know about practice details, but there are emotions which will make you have low amounts of Qi, emotions which will make it crazy as if you were drunk, emotions which will make it stagnate around your body and meridians, and emotions which will make it go down your wee-wee (for the explanation of why in accordance to TCM and acupuncture, look at the Spoiler above).

 

Of course, any of those would be harmfull for any qigong practice.

 

"Inner smilling", not only during practice but also at all moments you can, is just finding the right emotions to be able to avoid this shit

 

 

On 11/01/2017 at 0:54 PM, Spotless said:

"But that's something to work on this mediun-work group. They do have a lot of frontline-guardians and entities which work on binding and restricting these kind of beings to try and regenerate them after regulating how much influence they have on the person."

 

This type of approach to control is generally run by the very spirits that need control - no access.

 

Here is one component to look at regarding the group:

 

Do they spend at least as much time bringing you down and out of trance and "cleaned out" as they do having you sit prior to channeling and bring your vibrattion up? If the coming out of trance aspect is not at least 15 full minutes and more like 30-40 minutes then it will nearly always be an "unfortunate detour".

 

Most groups cannot "see" what is generally really going on and rely on trance states and channeling to figure out what is going on - it becomes an odd concoction.

 

Most of the beings coming in will primarily utilize the Akashic records of the person whose body they are entering - this is a full proof way for the beings to both impress and find agreement. It is not necessarily "bad" but the whole affair is playing on the razors edge of high high trance and most simply do not have an understanding how open they are to the pittfals of these states.

 

It is well known in many cultures where this practice is more common that life expectancy for mediums is reduced and physical ill's are common. In fact in many of these cultures the mediums are expected to be half nuts.

 

 

Technically speaking they do not channel or do anything to me. I'm expected to learn how to do it myself, with the help of the entities.

 

See, i think the way of work of the group hasn't been well understood.

 

There's no one going around making me do stuff or jamming spirits inside of me. 

 

There's music, there's people sitting in circles (on chairs) around an open inner circle and there's people meditating by themselves. Then the channeling begins as the mediuns allow themselves to channel. We aren't brought to open ourselves, but rather are instructed to learn how to let go and take back control in order to have the spiritual phenomena happen to us.

 

If we do not allow any spiritual presence or deny anything it intends to do, the spirit is supposed to let go immediatelly. It's one of the rules of the place. The free will of the medium is supreme and should NEVER be questioned or taken. That's a grave offense.

 

They also stimulate study and mental development from us. The mediuns are NOT supposed to be half-witthed fools who give themselves to the spirits, but rather to study and understand WHAT and HOW is happening - even if occidental knowledge is very little in terms of the inner workings of energy inside the body, like the meridians, the bibliography on the outer energy workings (such as auras) is very extense.

 

One way or another, i indeed have never been in touch with the concept of expending time to come back from trance. I believe it is a mostly daoist view ?

 

Coming back abruptly certainly brings consequences. It has happened to me a few times, and it is a bit traumatic. I am, however, learning to become able to come back at my will, smoothly and softly, as this is how i see my elders doing at the place.

 

They do not come back in "jumps" like i do. They enter and leave trance smoothly and in peace. And they do not get out of it by simply being touched by others, as i sometimes do. This is a certain knowledge i have been trying to learn, i guess ?

 

Anyhow. As i said, there's no specific time to enter or to leave trance. Can anyone clarify to me which is the theory behind this idea of expending as much time to return from trance as one expends to enter on it ?

 

I do get into trance very easily, since it's a common thing for me to do (get into and out of trance) since i was a kid ( right now i can do it under one minute if i start concentrating... maybe even faster), so i guess i can expend maybe double or even triple this time to get back if i want to xD

 

On 11/01/2017 at 3:49 PM, Daeluin said:

In terms of opening meridians, I would advise not doing this intentionally, but perhaps learning a taijiquan form and allowing the qi to move naturally from the dantien through the body. In general when we focus on grounding and centering within practices of sitting, standing and moving, the qi will do what it needs to do. This can prevent issues which arise from controlling the qi.

 

Some form of taijiquan might also help with your spine issues. It sounds like you have a very good sensitivity to energy, but may still have some blockages within that need dissolving. This could also open up a new layer of work for you. I am hesitant to say too much, as I do not know much myself, but I believe if you intend to discover a way to resolve this, you will.

 

Thank you for sharing with us.

 

I'm the one to thank everyone who answered.

 

Indeed i do believe i have been doing very bad practices, and as i have been progressing on my spiritual development, many, many things have come to pass.

 

Mostly i have become more centered and dropped any qigong "do yourself" practices entirely. I intend to start learning from a teacher once i have the chance.

 

I have also gotten in touch with a spirit which has shown itself to me and helped me with my back pain - it uses a form of shiatsu and seems to be of oriental origin. It has said to me to only work with qigong once i got i good master, so... yeah, no "i will learn from the spirits!" here.

 

Not only that, i have also gotten in touch with some very sensitive aspects of this very back pain i use to feel.... and they do explain some heavy shit i have gotten throught.

Thank you very much for everyone who helped !

Additionally - do not "meditate" until you are instructed on in-body methods. What you touched on in describing meditation suggests trance meditation practice which in your particular case will have nothing but negative effects for the foreseeable future.

 

I sincerely wish you the best of luck as you are standing at the very edge of a high cliff - back off from it and gently climb down.

 

You have asked "is this Qi Gong"

It is like asking "is this cooking" and then telling us you poured salad dressing on your head and rubbed yourself with lettuce.

 

Interesting.

 

Well, i don't have any physiologicaly-generated psychosys yet (i just did an eletroencephalogram the other day to know if my channeling was real or just schizophrenia, and the neurologist told me everything was ok and there where no signs of psychosys on a physiological level), so that's not the case, i believe.

 

I have been having psychiatric help for a while, due to chronicle depression, and the psychiatrist also was of opinion that i had no psychosys per se.

 

About dropping practices...

 

I have doing this qigong above out of my own whim, actually. I read a pdf, know a little bit about energy works, know a bit about acupuncture, have practiced some occidental stuff, and decided to try it out. It has nothing to do with the medium/channeling group i belong to. I actually haven't even shownd them the practice yet.

 

I can easily drop it, since it isn't a regular practice or anything.

 

But i probably shouldn't drop my mediun-work practices, since the group i'm trying to become a part of  (i'm currently a guest there, and will only become a member, maybe, by aphril) helped me a lot with some higher out-of-control stages (i was in pretty bad shape three months ago) and also have been doing something much like what you have told me - keeping it simple, grounding on more earthly vibrations.

 

About blogs and sermons, i don't usually read those. I try to keep myself only with books and very few blogs, most of them not about channeling, but rather about magic, metaphysics and semiotics.

 

I know i may seem like a freak going around with no idea, but actually my most daring and out-of-controll practice is indeed the one above. I don't fancy channeling as something ultra-special or something. And indeed i know i'm probably being heavily obsediated by external inteligences (some not so inteligent after all).

 

But that's something to work on this mediun-work group. They do have a lot of frontline-guardians and entities which work on binding and restricting these kind of beings to try and regenerate them after regulating how much influence they have on the person.

 

It's a shame they have a 1-month vacancy every year. It's being though without them. The influences are becoming more frequent and stronger =/

 

Anyhow. Thank you for answering.

Yes its is. Thanks for a vivid account. You need to do something about that back pain thou.

 

Thanks for the answer. Could you please tell me about the other questions as well, like what is this "infinity qi" and, most of all, about the breathing ?

Thanks!

 

 

Hi, Desmonddf, To my own knowledge, if during or after the Qigong practice, there is a backache or a heaviness of head, there is something not right of the training. Backache: weakness of yang Kidney, and heaviness of head: stagnation of qi. I'm in no position to offer any advice on your elaborate practice. However, mixing different practices may be ill-conceived. If I were a Reiki master and adapt in harvesting external qi, I would have continued to master the the art and proceed to complete the Wei-Dan practice before going into Nei-Dan.

 

Hi.

 

Thank you.

 

I don't actually try to mix reiki into qigong, at least not intentionaly.  I have gotten this technique from a qigong pdf and adapted it with use of some acupuncture knowledge (i'm an acupuncturist).

 

About the backpain, it actually gets better when i do the thing right. It just goes wrong when i do the circulations without absorbing enough qi.

 

While the heaviness of head comes when i stop the 2-0-4-4 breathing and start the 4-4-0-2 breathing.

Do you know why, or even any other qigong practices which talk about exhalating in order to avoid qi stagnation?

I get why my qi would stagnate with 4-4-0-2 breathing (it's a tonic breathing after all), but why would it stagnate with 4-4-4-4 breathing, which should be harmonious ?

 

Is there some need for me to remove qi (maybe impure qi or something) from inside while doing this kind of technique i'm doing?

 

My greatest fear is to be actually doing something very wrong and losing qi instead of retaining it.

 

About the Wei-dan practice, i feel like the order should be reverse.

Why should i work with projecting and manipulating qi on the exterior before using it to streghten the interior?

 

Won't it lead merely to disease and early death?

 

After all, if i make a yang tonic before nuturing the yin, it will simply consume the yin inside.

So, watching the Metatron thread, before I feel asleep the other night, I did an experiment, as suggested by someone: I asked Metatron to speak to me through dreams. I don't recall my dreams, the last two nights, but sitting in the sun earlier, I did what I did, yesterday: just closed my eyes and watched my breath. After a few minutes, I "saw" a brilliant disk of white hot flashing where, in the Tree of Life, Kethar would be. Then it began to expand, and stabalize. Then, a bluish-white disk of light hovered below, where Da'as would be. Another golden disk of light appeared where Chokma would be, and then, another golden disk appeared below that, where Hesed would be. After a few moments, all glowed more intensely, and a line of white light connected them all.

 

Does this mean anything? If so, what does it mean?

 

Thank you.

 

Kether - Daath - Hockmah - Chesed.

 

This is a path from the "Source" to "Kindness".

 

From the Primordial Fountain comes Knowledge, which then generates Impulse. From impulse then comes kindness and compassion.

 

Does it makes any sense for you ?

 

Also, did you ask for any directions from Metraton? Something in special? Did you feel something while you where asking for guidance?

 

Remember that simply asking for it to manifest through dreams may give you totally crazy and wacked messages and riddles.

 

There may be some meaning to them, but not having a clue on how to look at them would make it a lot harder to find the answer.

There is some empirical proof of reincarnation because some people can remember actual events, places, etc. from a past life, however, what is it that reincarnates? What is the "I"? People usually think that there is a unity in their personality that they call "I", that is conscious and free and that they understand. However, if you have bad karma, you see people doing whatever it takes to obey what a higher power that rules karma has decided. They behave against their reason, instinct, the idea that they have about themselves...all to punish you, and they don´t know what they are doing. The "I" is an illusion!

In addition, there doesn´t seem to be a continuity of memory from one life to the next. Most people don´t remember past lives at all, and most others don´t remember from birth, they only remember later in life. A new personality is created, and I guess that there isn´t continuity. The same happens with relationships: maybe you´ll meet the same person again, but if both of you don´t remember, you´ll create a new relationship. A Christian friend told me a similar thing about Heaven, she said that there wasn´t a continuity because there is nothing in Heaven that reminds you of this life.

Is there an efficient way to remember, and to preserve your purpose, knowledge and relationships from one life to the next? I don´t mean spending eternity doing only meditation, because then you would live forever but you wouldn´t live anyway.

In Taoism there are several ideas about the soul. There is the idea that we don´t have a soul and need to create one. There is the idea that we have many souls. And there is the idea that we have one soul. Which idea of the soul should I choose? It is quite confusing. Also, the embrio of immortality, is it I, or is it a different soul? And I don´t understand the creation of many souls in the last stage of inner alchemy, by doing that aren´t you splitting your consciousness, creating souls that are clones of you, but that have less energy and intelligence? Maybe it would be better to maintain a unity in your mind, personality and soul.

 

There's plenty of proof.    Dr. Ian Stevenson has some books on the matter.

 

There is continuity of memory (indeed, i myself remember a little bit of my stay on the astral plane, on what we call "inter-lives period") - however, accessing this memory brings difficult to remember the whole.

 

As much as an amnesic may not remember everything, so it is with past lives memories. You need to recall it, bit by bit, in continuous exploration of your own mind.

 

What continues is a deeper form of mind which is devoid of Ego or Personality, not to mention some superior things. Why people always relate mind with ego ?

 

The ego is just a small sub-product of the mind. Anyone who studied a little bit of Freudian Theory (needed to talk about Ego) knows that the Ego is a product of much larger and titanic forces within - the Superego and the ID, to say the least (not mentionin pre-birth unconscious, which Freud also recognized as existing...).

 

In fact, you don't even have a fully formed ego before you're 7 years old!

That's when most of your personality and ego settle in, and to change that you need some pretty intense stuff, for some pretty long time.

 

All memory is preserved. Because it isn't like a movie you store on your mind. It is actual connection from your mind with the Past and the Future. Memory is an insight on being beyond time.

 

So once you reach a higher level of awareness, your mind shall have room to develop enough and to naturally allow this kind of memory to keep existing, yes.

 

What I find interesting to contemplate is what it is that is "carried over" from life to life.

From the Buddhist perspective, there is no self - so what is "carried over?"

 

If it is the "spark of the Divine" then how is that "spark" differentiated from every other spark?

What is "carried over?"

If it is the "soul [which] returns to God," is that soul somehow separate and distinct from God or does it return to the source?

If the latter, what is it that is carried over?

 

It is quite easy for me to accept a concept of reincarnation. 

There is birth, life, death, birth, life, death, ad infinitum - this is the cycle.

I can easily accept each birth to be a reincarnation of whatever substrate one postulates as that which gives rise to life.

 

What I have not yet formulated to any degree of satisfaction is something that remains intact and isolated from the substrate, such that it "carries over" as a distinct and finite entity from one life to the next. 

 

Perhaps it works that way, perhaps it doesn't - I'm not too concerned with knowing "the truth" if there is such a thing, but I do find it fascinating to contemplate from time to time.

 

 

What if i tell you that it isn't one "it", but many "it" ?

The problem is the perspective that death actually means a lot. Death is just losing your physical body.

Everything that isn't physical remains with you.

 

Now, what is and what isn't physical... i can tell some things i have experienced as beying not physical, but that would just smell like lies.

 

It's easier to experience by yourself

 

 

obs: Our "divine spark" is the so called "Christic Body" or simply our "Body of Will". It is the higher individual stance of existence we have.

Yes, higher individual stance.

 

We are collective beings above this.

 

And no, it can't be simply destroyed.... because it exists beyond time and space. How can you destroy something which is a singularity on itself?

 

 

The spirit of Jesus or the spirit of Buddha lives in our minds, because we carry forward to the future generations the stories of them but with each generation there is a mutation in the story which makes that at some point in the future they will be so different than the original content that will be unrecognizable. The evolution plays in the spirit realm too.

 

 

Sorry, DNA doesn't carry stories. It's just protein and sugar basis which contain information on BODILY construction, not mental.

 

Also, it isn't even all-powerfull in this sense, since ambient factors can determine the activation or deactivation of DNA parts.

 

What you're looking for (things which live in our minds) is either collective unconscious/arquetipes or meme theory (a favorite from Dawkins).

Also... is what you're calling "mind" a "brain" ?

 

You may be making wrong assumptions there, since dr.Freud and dr.Jung where VERY specific on saying that the "mind" ISN'T the "brain".

That's also why psychiatrists, neurologists and psychologists all treat different illnesses with different methods.

 

They do not share the same field of study, as much as people tend to think they do. 

 

 

Thank you UFA for the explanation. This is what I knew and I agree with you. The problem is with those finer bodies that you refer to in the Hermetic theory (which I know about them because I studied extensively the subject over years). I tend to believe that as soon as the body that provides energy to them like a power-plant cease to function, then those bodies dissolve too. So probably there is a point in the reincarnation belief, but there are two contradictory beliefs:

 

One that says everybody reincarnates and your mission is to escape reincarnation, to put an effort and stop this cycle due to inertia.

 

The other is that nobody really reincarnates and if you really want to reincarnate you have to put an effort to build those finer bodies so that when your physical body dies they survive for a while on the energy you gather until you find another body that you inhabit and continue another life in the new body and you continue the cycle endlessly.

 

Which one of the two beliefs do you think is true? It can be only one true and the other false. Or both of them are false because they can't be both true.

 

If you allow me, there are two missunderstandings on your theory.

 

The first is to believe the energy which keeps the finer bodies alive comes from higher plans of existence.

 

Just like what happens bettwen our physical bodies and our astral body, there is a small amount of energy which interacts between both (in the aetherial body), but it isn't the source of energy for our physical body.

 

It keeps it togheter, but doesn't feed it. Energy from eating feeds it.

And in the Astral and Mental plane both things also apply. One needs a constant supply of substance to nuture their astral and mental bodies.

 

So there isn't a single "master powerplant", but, rather, there are many energy sources.

 

About your beliefs, they hold true to a certain extent but on different planes.

 

Many hermetic students draw from different sources and, therefore, mix different kinds of knowledge.

 

The first theory is valid for astral-physical reincarnation. Everyone does it and proof is both on some hermetic books (which talk about necromancy in finer detail, going beyond the typical mistake of evoking pranking spirits, elementals or discarted aetheric bodies of the dead), and physical spiritual phenomenon.

 

As the second is valid for aetheric-physical reincarnation. This one can only be done if you build finer "physical" bodies (with aether, much like one can create qi vessels to hold their souls) which you can then use for a multitude of purposes, one of them being reincarnation.

 

The major difference between both is what composes the new finer bodies you will be getting. Like which monads will you be taking part of, which determine, for instance, which will be your Spiritual Clan and your Spiritual Heritage (which you will need to study beyond hermeticism and into xamanism to explore into greater detail).

 

Those are important, but aren't as big as some hermetic studies make them to be, and don't mean your higher existences or memories will be wiped clean and you will "return to the creator".

 

No more than destroying your current mind and making it back from zero would. That can't destroy who you where (and the individuality of the "divine spark" we carry is actually

 

Unfortunately, the different small "cruzades" the hermetic draw one against another (for instance the Martinists against the Ars Goetia practcionners) avoid for knowledge to be better understood and comprehended. Not to mention their skirmishes with other forms of knowledge.

 

 

 

 

I don't know what anyone is really talking about when they talk about reincarnation. There is nothing in here, whether you're dead or alive. It's a big post-hoc fallacy... that because you've always existed, you must have had an origin, and because that origin is unchanging, it must be immortal and transferable. What is the spiritual evidence of this? Past life memories? How do you know where they come from?

 

I've had very, very vivid experiences that could be called past life. But why attribute it to anything? Why label it? It's just what's happening, in the now. You're not in control of what happens to you on Earth so karma or not, you can't really outsmart the system. It goes on and on and you don't have a say in that.

 

There's no way to know if insight into dependent origination is a product of mind or something else because you can't know anything beyond your own experience of knowing. Even when people think they're being not-mind, there's still mind. As soon as a concept arises, it's mind.

 

I used to get mad at Christians for referring to karma as "what goes around, comes around". Then I realized that karma is fundamentally flawed no matter who is talking about it. What does karma attach to? Can you point to it? Subtle mind? What's that?

 

I'm not trying to be crass. But honestly, just what do we think we're talking about here? That there was some "me" before this "me" which is just as empty?

 

The bigger spiritual evidence is physical phenomenon derived from spiritual effects.

 

Like spiritual healing, materialization of spirits and the such.

In fact, past memories should always be checked throughly. Somethimes we create false memories, and we can indeed insert them on ourselves like that.

 

In fact, on regression theraphy, it is a must to not label the products of a regression as real or not - since what has therapeutic value is the effect the thing had in you, the simbolism it carries and how you can deal with present life questions and challenges more positively after seeing it, and not if the thing was real or not.

 

About your past lives and existential questions, i believe they can all be answered with a thought:

 

It's not about transcendence.

Greetings.

 

I have been seeing some threads on this forum, like the one on "how to gather qi", and it actually made me question the method i have been aplying and it's results.

 

I will sumarize briefily the method i use to do qigong, and also the results i gather from it.

 

I would need to say that i do not use this method daily since i have some personal problems which deeply impact my capability to summon enough diligence and willpower to do so.

 

Anyhow, here it is.

 

 

First Step: Find a good place.

 

I have a bit of sensitivity to local qi as well as the general psychic atmosphere of places, so my Shen becomes easily disturbed in my own house or in urban landscapes, or even forest landscapes with too much human interaction.

 

I find the qi (or what i believe to be qi) fresher and purer in midly wild regions with low to none human interference.

 

Of course, those are hard to comeby, so i just settle for a natural reserve/park nearby, and try to get there as soon as possible, before people get there and start poluting the place or plainly drainig any amount of qi there is there.

 

 

Second Step: Use the place's Qi to harmonize and settle the Shen

 

I calm myself by letting my consciousness drift a bit while enjoying the place i have found. Then i lightly separate my feet and bend my knees, just a bit - until my hips are firm on my legs.

 

At this point i'm starting to doze off in a lightly meditative state already. Being in a place with good, natural qi, i can breathe and absorb it in without the need to "close" my consciousness to the surrounding energy, which relaxes me and allows for a more in-dept connection to my own self.

 

 

Third Step: Start to feel good.

 

Just lift the emotional, mental and energetic blockades i instinctively put on during the day. I'm also a sensitive and a medium (i actually channel spirits on an Umbanda cult place some days of the week, so, yeah, i need to "close myself" to the outside when i'm not in very pure places... which just causes a lot of stress to build up).
 

Fourth Step: Try to find Qi

 

The three initial steps are needed in order for me to find Qi - that is, the one i will actually absorb, and not the envroinmental qi.

Why?

 

Well, here is where my practice start to derivate from most i see on the forum, and also where i start to think if i'm doing it wrong.

 

Envroinmental qi is just too little and too heavy?

 

It's usually polluted, and even natural qi from plants early in the morning is usually too humid and damp to be of use.

 

If i put that thing inside of my channels, it just messes everything up.

 

So i try to find a "higher source" of Qi, which i do by using the surrounding qi to fall into a deeper state of counsciousness and then elevate my Shen to the "infinity above".

 

That means to see light (usually white or golden) descending from the universe, from an undetermined point above, directly into the center of my head and then descending all the way to my dantian, where it usually spreads itself rather well.

 

At this point there's also a second difference from most posts i see here : I don't need to suck it in. The qi (or whatever it is i'm channeling) actually just drives itself inside of my body as long as i allow it to. 

 

It doesn't need to be sucked out of the environment, and it obeys any mental command as long as it has heart (shen/consciousness) and mind (intention and direction).

 

It comes in much greater concentrations than the local energy, and it feels a lot purer.

 

 

Fifth Step: Increase the gathering

 

Then i usually see the same energy coming from the "infinite bellow" by my two feet, and then raise my hands to the sides, seeing it coming to my by my hands from the "infinites" on both sides.

 

One weird thing that happens at these moments - it naturally starts to gather on the center of my chest, moving from my dantian to my middletian.

At these moments i usually draw it back to the dantian forcefully, as i don't want to risk damaging my heart and lungs due to qigong bad practices... letting qi accumulate on the middle of my chest? I don't have this kind of confidence yet. Definetely.

 

This way i have a four-point entrance of torrential qi, which storms into my body, more and more as i allow it to come by.

 

And here comes another difference - this qi immediately makes me start to sweat. Like, a lot.

 

And this is where things get weird as shit, because this is a smelly sweat, and soon mosquitoes, flys and all sort of insects start to get attracted to me.

 

As i have heard, this shouldn't happen.

 

Yeah, all lifeforms appreciate qi, but no wild animals (the park has quite a number of them, including small monkeys, some mammals and some birds) come closer. Only flys, mosquitoes, ants and such.

 

This sweat also reeks. My grilfriend says it's a rancid smell.

 

Anyhow.

 

At this point i also start to have a weird effect.

 

I feel like this qi is circulating all the way inside of my bones, in the middle of my marrow, and i feel rejuvenated, energetic and very well.

 

My chronicle depression alleviates a lot, and the pain i feel on my body (which is constant) is greatly alleviated.

 

However, this is where things start to get weird.

 

 

Sixth Step: Breathing

 

At this point i usually start to try and pay attention to my breathing.

 

I try to make a 4-4-0-2 or a 4-4-0-0 breathing, intending to hold this qi inside and have it work on me, while also being retained at my dantian.

 

However, at this point it becomes increasingly difficult to keep connection to this qi, as paying attention to my breathing takes a lot of awareness which is needed to keep a good visualization.

 

Also, when i'm channeling this qi, my body naturaly starts to breathe on a very different manner, and my spontaneous breathing is something like 2-0-4-4 or something like this.

 

Huge exaling times and void retention times, with little to none inhaling time.

 

As i try to "correct" this, i feel a weird sensation of "poisoning", as if this qi was starting to poison me.

 

I postualted that maybe this is removing toxins too deeply etched on my system, and the extreme exhaling breathing maybe is a way to avoid myself being poisoned by it, but i'm not sure.

 

What i am sure is that i start to feel light-headness, muscle aches and a weird feeling of dizzines and nausea, as soon as i start the 4-4-0-2 breathing.

Also, it usually doesn't get right again, even if i return to the 2-0-4-4. It keeps going bad until i sever totally the connection to that "infinity qi".

 

If i do it, then about 24hrs later or something, then i will return to my regular self. Until them, i will be feeling hot and damp inside, and also a weird feeling of being "intoxicated".

 

Anyhow.

 

Once in a while i manage to get over this intoxication and manage to proceed to the next step (usually when i let my breathing slip to 4-4-4-4 or 2-4-2-4...).

 

 

Seventh Step: Qi Gathering.

 

If i manage to not fall to the weird feelings (usually by stop giving so much weight to my breathing and letting it be) i start to use Shen to visualize and manipulate the qi inside my dantian.

 

First i let it accumulate a great deal, always taking care with my back. If i feel lightness or pain on my lower back, then i know i'm doing something wrong (as it means my kidney qi is being used somehow).

 

Usually it happens when i start to try and suck in more of that "infinity qi", which just doesn't work and even cut of the connection with it.

 

Instead, the right state of mind is that of someone who waits patiently until the qi has descended to the dantian, and then just "suggests" to it to stay put instead of going all around.

 

If i do it right, then i will start to feel my whole body lighter and, at the same time, stronger.

 

Also, there will be an energy on my dantian which i can also move freely, as if moving your consciousness inside of your body, needing only to make use of the movement of consciouness to move it.

 

I believe this is the qi used for medical qigong?

 

I don't know for sure.

 

Anyhow, this light starts to gather there, and i accumulate a huge amount, since the next step is a bit dangerous if you don't have enough.

 

 

Eight Step: Small Purification

 

The eight step is to take all of that accumulated qi and then make it go from my dantian to my perineum.

 

At this moment i contract the perineum and make the energy rise all the way to the mingmen, and then make it go inside and connect back to the dantian.

 

This process consumes HUGE amounts of energy, and when i do it and there is little energy, a HUGE lowerback pain is inevitable.

 

To the point of me needing to sit down for at least thirty minutes before even thinking on giving up on everything and going back home.

 

So, this is a step i only do after accumulating a lot of qi.

 

Now, the effects of this are weird. This qi actualy becomes more like "mine" ?

 

I guess the better way to say would be to say that this qi, which was full of "infinity" and would hardly be contained into my body as it where, then dilutes on my channels and on my mingmen, mostly mixing into my blood and fluids.

 

This makes me feel very good, even if what comes back from this process is just a weird, impure qi which it's usually expelled from my body naturally.

 

After doing this a few times, i stop this process and accumulate more again. 

 

After nuturing myself with this qi a few times, i start another process.

 

 

Ninth Step: Second Orbit

 

After doing the small orbit a few times (accumulating more qi every time i feel it's starting to run low) i accumulate a big amount again, and then do a process which is alike, but different.

 

This time, after sending the qi to the perineum and contracting it, i make the qi to rise all the way to my head, and then follow the rest of the Governor Channel and then to the Conception Channel.

 

If i have put a lot of qi in the process i can feel it go all the way inside my back to my mouth, and then descend to both my stomach and the Conception Vase as well, a part of it being swallowed and another part descending by the front of my body.

 

It makes me feel refreshed and clears my mind, so it's very good.

 

It's also another technique which gives huge backpains if you do it with little "infinity qi" on your dantian, so i don't even think about it.

 

Afther doing it a few times, i feel very well and go to the next and last step...

 

 

Tenth Step: Energy Pearl / Elixir

 

The tenth step comes as i start a process of consolidating that "infinity qi" into a small pearl inside of my body.

 

It becomes detached from the dantian, and starts to concentrate and actually become a little solid.

 

By using attention, intention and direction, i'm able to order the "infinity qi" inside my dantian to form layer after layer of itself and concentrate on a pearl, which starts to become more and more solid.

 

At this point i have only succeded once.

 

The pearl indeed felt solid, but it didn't solidify my dantian itself. It just stood there, a mass of "infinity qi" of very concentrated nature.

 

I try to see it red most of the times.

 

Now, the effects of this are mostly delicious.

 

This small "pearl" will actually realease qi constantly as it dissolves inside of your dantian, and will be constantly nuturing your body and your channels.

Also, if you need a huge amount of energy out of a sudden, it will just dissolve all at once and be used instead of your own energy.

 

I have constant backpain, and much of it is related to me being a medium and having trouble keeping my energy to myself... i actually spend it unconsciously all day, at all times.

 

So this little pearl takes the tool instead of my body, and even nuture it.

 

When i made it i was one of the few days i managed to stay a whole day without backpains.

 

Now, about trying to make the "pearl" whitout going throgh the two previous purifications, i believe it would be impossible.

 

The good feelings it gives are needed to allow one more "freedom of shen", which is needed to better control the "infinity qi" and make the pearl.

Without it one would probably be unable to be conscious and sensitive enough to make it. Or at least i haven't been able to.

 

Anyhow.

 

 

That's how i have been doing qigong so far, whenever i can.

 

Is this right?

 

Is this even qigong?

 

Maybe this "infinity qi" isn't actually the same qi as many forms of qigong, but Reiki, since i'm a Reiki master...

 

Anyhow.

 

If this is Qigong, then i have been fixated on the idea of trying to add another step between the ninth and the tenth... one in which i actually make this qi to circulate on the macrocirculation, going through all of my channels.

 

Problem is, it's just too many darn channels. I'm an acupuncturist, so i know there are a lot more than just 12 and that even those have internal and external paths.

 

To remember all of them would be a hastle, to make qi go through all of them may be too much for me.

But maybe i could try and make it happen on one or two.

If i am to to try and do so, which meridians do you guys believe i should try first?

 

Thanks everyone for reading this wall of text.

 

Have a good day!

- Who or what lives or dies?

 

Usually your physical body dies while the other subtle bodies (emotional, mental, etc) live. You can think on that as losing your body but keep being able to feel and think, only on "other world".

 

 

- Are the memories mine or from elsewhere? (i.e. something collective)

 

 

It is possible to access other people's memories as well as collective memories, but this isn't common. If you can't recognize your existance there then it may be memories from other people, indeed.

 

Try thinking on how you saw the world as a child. Can you relate your infant self to your previous self?

 

If not those memories may not be yours indeed.

 

 

- Who or what is observing the memories?

 

You saw them on third person?

 

Most of mine where on first person. It was through my eyes. If you saw those memories in third person than you may have experienced indeed dreams, other people's past (not memories, but actively seeing the past through psychic sight) or been subjected to artificial rememoration.

 

There are techniques were a spirit sees your past through psychic sight and then project an image of it in your dreams or your mind directly. However, that isn't regression.

 

 

- Do we co-create with the reincarnation cycle ("planned lives") or are we completely at its mercy, with no helpful variables?

 

Depends. Some people become insane in the emotional world and can't plan anything. Those may be subjected to forced reincarnation.

 

However, most people do participate in their life planning, including details about their future body anatomy. The degree of participation varies from person to person, place to place and hierarchy to hierarchy.

 

Which hierarchy?

 

The ones you subject yourself. For instance, if you do a vow of obedience to the catholic church while alive, this keeps going after death.

 

You can expect for them do remember the vows of servitude you did, that is for sure.

 

 

 

Most of the systems that talk about reincarnation divide consciousness into some kind of hierarchy, especially the western schools, but I don't relate to this either. It's all one thing, there's no higher or lower.

 

Conscienciousness is indeed one thing. However, the dissociation between mind, emotion and consciousness is a process recognized by psychology.

 

Indeed, it is one of the main objectives of psychoteraphy : To allow for the person to notice she isn't what she feels or thinks.

 

 

 

It's all just a dream,

 

But what is a dream?

 

 

 

If you're going to weave such experiences into your own personal cosmology for something practical, then I guess it has its uses. Apart from that, I see no reason to entertain past life memories.

 

So far the main use i had for those experiences was regarding problems i had with my mind. Old traumas and psychological issues i had to solve, some of which had roots in previous life.

 

One of the most intense ones was a life i couldn't leave my body after death for a period of time. With my emotional body still stuck on it i felt the deterioration process and the semi-mumification due to have died on a place with a lot of sand and sun.

 

This trauma followed me to the present life in a unconscious terror of getting thin, which brought me to obesity. It was only after noticing that, indeed, the past was in the past, that i could start getting healthy again.

 

It can also be used to recover knowledge, as it has happened to me once or twice so far - recovering knowledge on a certain ritual to help a friend of mine, for instance.

 

However, i do agree with you. If one has no uses to memories of past life, then they are not a priority. They may be interesting to entertain, but just like memories of childhood or teen years, there is no reason to become obsessed with them.

And some people remain there, fully conscious, going about their work.

 

Yes, indeed. Reincarnation is a thing that can take a long time between lives or happen immediately. Each person is a different matter in this subject.

 

Some common lines of work include dealing with the needs of others and submiting yourself to an organization in order to get benefits.

 

Depending on how high on the astral plane you find yourself things can be more or less regular, fantastic or nasty.

 

There's a very "dark" city the astral projectors group i'm a part of calls "gordemonio". Things there revolve around the basic desire of getting ectoplasm of the living (by offerings or plain vampirism) in order to affect the physical plane and power struggles amongst those who live there.

 

An astral colony like "Nosso Lar" revolves around rescuying the nearly dead and specially those who died of cancer in a certain part of Brazil. It's mainly peacefull and devoted to stillness and forgetting the wrongdoings of the past.

 

While higher semy-planes of existence gravitate around more humanitarian, scientific and artistic dealings.

 

 

I doubt any of this is the case.

 

That's what i have seen in some of the "astral colonies" we have over our country. However, those are linked to a religious philosophy we have here, so maybe it's just how people of that philosophy see things.

 

 

There is also the case when one is shown a possible future by the Higher Self so that one can work toward it.

 

 Indeed.

Yes, you could see the aether body as connected to the Lunar sphere. However, the latter also corresponds with instincts and the subconscious mind. Since there are many different models both regarding the psyche and the multi-layered subtle body, I prefer to currently hold back on overly rigorous correspondences.

 

 

Sure, i was just adapting the theory to the astrological spheres.

 

 

 

Anyway, the celestial bodies influence the whole subtle body of the Earth, not only its aetheric body. And while the Earth may provide the link between the human being and the outer Universe, it is again not just the individual's aetheric body that is being influenced.

 

I will slightly disagree on this point. Even if they indeed do influence the planet earth (not the celestial bodies themselves, but the subtle inteligences and fluxes linked to them), they only influence the planet on it's aetheric atmosphere.

 

Beyond that (the emotional plan and above) they do not pose serious influence.

 

 

 

No offence, but these correspondences are quite dubious to me. For instance, while I agree that with Jupiter and Saturn we enter the realm of collectivism, the personality of the average individual does extend to (and is contained by) the sphere of Saturn. Not before Uranus can we speak of transcendent forces.

 

 

It's a rough outline, not a rigorous correspondence. I'm not talking about individuals either, but about planes of existence.

 

 

 

Also, the soul is anything but un-individual, thus it does not gravitate to "un-individual states of existence." Rather, it is the very essence of individuality. At once, it partakes of the Divine. These are no simple questions, to be sure.

 

 

I suppose we are using different definitions about what is the "soul". The "soul" i'm refering to is the emotional body.

 

The mental, causal and other subtle bodies aren't included in the "soul".

 

 

 

You lost me completely with that.

 

 

I will make an amendment here. It is possible to project one's consciousness to any of the mentioned spheres of existence, but this is different from transcending the need of be a part of the cicles of the present sphere one is into.

 

 

Didn't we say that's the aetheric body? And why would a (layer of the) subtle body have to be purified in order to be scattered? Internal alchemy can be used to purify the subtle body, but the aim is to make it immortal, that is, to maintain all its faculties - quite contrary to your statement.

 

Please note i'm talking about multiple subtle bodies, not a single one.

 

A layer of it (above the aetheric body, which scattes naturaly) must be purified in order to be scatted because this is the way to attain immortality for an even more subtle body. Once the emotional body is scatted it becomes possible to materialize a new emotional body at any time.

 

The difference is - this new emotional body isn't subjected to many of the laws of the emotional plane. 

 

It is a body made by the mind, and therefore there's absolute control over it - including "immortality".

 

Like all "imortals" from taoism, the immortality of a more subtle body means the last death of a more concrete one. Then, transcendence from the ilusion of death and the capability of returning to the world without being a part of it - without the need to go through birth and reencarnation.

 

Let's apply this concept to the physical plane.

 

Usually one must die here and go to the emotional plane. Then, reincarnate once the emotional body start to decay.

 

This cicle grants vitality not to the physical body, but to the emotional body.

 

The one body we must make immortal isn't our physical one, but the emotional one. Why? Because we theoreticaly should be able to make a physical body for ourselves at any time, by gathering aether and materializing it.

 

All human beings are, in theory, physicaly immortal. Differently from elementals (ondines, salamanders, etc) we have the inerent ability to gather semi-physical particles and manipulate them (like qi). This depends on being individuals at the level of causality, thing the elementals aren't.

 

Of course, in theory. In practice this is one more of the things the actual system of reincarnations this planet has doesn't allow to be done, even if virtually ALL other planets of this system allow for it.

 

Just go in astral projection to any of them. Mars, Jupiter, even the sun. As long as you can use an appropriate technique to leave the planet's astral atmosphere and endure the conditions there, you will find plenty of non-earthly souls and aetheric bodies on those places.

 

Curse the guys in charge of this

 

Anyhow.

 

The emotional body we have must be made immortal. And the fastest way to do it is by purifying the physical body in order to attain a stronger manifestation of this body while using the physical forces to keep it's shape and overral human nature.

 

So, practices such as ascetism or karmic interactions, which bring forth surges of intense emotions, hurt this emotional body and bring instability to it. However, it doesn't decay because of the physical body acting as a support. 

 

By hurting it and having it come back to it's original form multiple times the result is a strenghtening and expansion of this emotional body.

 

Of course, excessive hurting may come with mental traumas, which will ruin the process and require for a new reincarnation in order to revert the damage done, but controled hurting will increase tolerance and overall strenght.

 

For a similar reason, once immortality of the emotional body is achieved, the same must be done with the concrete mental body - constant hurting of it by practices of "emotional ascetism", let's say it like this.

 

Then again, this is the system used on our planet today. In the past different systems have been used, and some of them are radically different.

 

For example, there are systems of spiritual growth by increasing expansion of one's personal power and vitality, bringing a closer connection to the post-individual planes and subtle bodies we have. Modern satanism in it's more esoteric veins (Dragon Rouge, Draconian Magic, Order of Phosporus, etc) are usually more affectionate of this kind of method instead of the ascetic ones.

 

Still, this one is very popular and has made it's way on most religious systems of our age.

It is all open to knowledge and experimentation, don't Western Physicists have trouble understanding the reality of the Universe, imagine then how complex may be the human microscosm.

 

I read in a Taoist work that the Lung is the chief of the Three Burners (Sanjiao). A very underrated and often overlooked organ when it comes to healing and treatment, also according to Maciocia it is possibly the very first cause of stagnation (infant separation from mother's womb and after lactating from mother's breasts):

 

On stagnation of Lung and Heart Qi

 

Then we have karmic issues, completely dismissed from TCM and orthodox Taoism but no so much in Buddhist and Hindu practice. Again there will be very Traditional Chinese doctors that have karma in mind when dealing with their patients and as a result will provide them with additional healing and Qigong practice methods (I believe).

 

The lung have some influence on the Sanjiao because it's related to the JinYe. There's a discussion about how much the lung influences the Sanjiao, but indeed there's this interpretation.

 

About karmic issues, my knowledge in the subject is limited. However, i have read somewhere that when a situation is karmic the MingMen (DM4) becomes active, creating a small energetic vortex in the person and can be felt with an energetic scanning of the back.

 

I have also experienced the feeling of having to change my hip position in order to compress my DM4 on a reflex act to avoid energy loss. This happens a lot when i deal with healing (any kind of healing - acupuncture, bioenergy, reiki) on people who are closely related to me, like family and close friends, so i'm prone to believe there's some degree of truth to this theory.

 

 

 

no sweat

 

I think so

 

http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/neijing_tu.html

 

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/histmed/downloads/ma_teaching/lo/c123_6.pdf

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/8944-taoist-classics-free-download/page-4

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/2563-nei-jing-tu/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neijing_Tu

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, it is the chapter 73 in Suwen which is missing from Unshuld

 

as you can see here

 

https://muse.jhu.edu/book/26200

 

he skips 72 and 73

 

the sentence is ...神失守位，即神游上丹田，...

 

...the spirit loses its place, and travels to the upper dantian..

 

《本病論》

 

however these 2 chapters are considered apocryphal as discussed here

 

http://ctext.org/discuss.pl?if=en&thread=2342826&remap=gb

 

I see. Thank you again.

Thank you very much.

 

I cannot read chinese yet. I have just started my classes. Is there any translated version of this picture ?

 

About the citation in the HuangDi Neijing - i do have a translated version here with me. Do you know the page or at least the chapter it is mentioned on ?

This is in great accordance with the picture that I pieced together, based on personal insights, astrological research, Hermetic writings, and quantum physics. Not that it would answer all my questions, but this is, in outline, what I concluded so far:

 

After physical death, the subtle body ascends through what was called the "planetary spheres" in the Hermetic/neo-Platonic cosmology of the ancients - we might speak of subtle planes or other-dimensional levels of reality today. During its "ascent", the subtle body gradually sheds its various layers, which correspond with the individual's intellect, emotions etc. For each of these layers is made of a different kind of subtle matter, and each is eventually left on its corresponding sphere or plane: The intellectual faculties on the plane of Mercury, the emotions on the planes of Venus and Mars etc.

 

What remains is the soul essence or monad, which is the individual's innermost identity beyond thinking and feeling. It will naturally gravitate toward realms beyond the Solar System, ultimately joining the Infinity of space and time. The Judeo-Christian tradition reflects this by stating that the soul returns to God.

 

Yet that spark of the Divine in most cases once again descends through the various planes, gradually dressing itself with new subtle body and, eventually, with a physical body. They will reflect the earlier experiences of this entity. Its make up is represented by its natal chart. There are indeed no two exactly identical individuals regarding their thinking, feeling, and physicality, as there are no two exactly identical natal charts. However, there will be considerable parallels between its earlier and the later "versions". Often, there will also be differences due to evolutionary integrations that have occurred during the previous incarnation.

 

 

By my experiences with channeling this would be correct in the concept, except the fact of not being an automatic process.

 

Please let me explain.

 

The spheres of the planets of astrology are multi-fractal.

 

The astrologic influences are actually all derivated from aether fluxes in our own planet, and are imprinted on the person's aether body - a semi-physical body which makes the connection between the physical body and the emotional body (which would be the sphere of Luna in your conceptual analysis).

 

(side note: Interestingly, this body start to scatter immediately after death of a person, and it's energy is needed for emotional beyings to affect the physical plane. So, the idea of "scattering" of the "soul", on my view, is actually based on the fact of the scattering of the aether body.)

 

However, astrology does go beyond this and gives us a conceptual analysis of the spheres above our own.

 

Above the sphere of deep emotion (Luna or the Astral Plane) we have the sphere of thought (mercury or the Concrete Mental Plane) then the sphere of sexuality and fluxes of instinc, or freudian libido, without form (Venus or the Abstract Mental Plane), then the sphere of Destiny, Dharma or Karma (Sun or the Causal Plane), then the sphere of strenght or impulse of movement (Mars or the Adamic Plane) then the sphere of royalty and supremacy (Jupiter or the Celestial Plane).

 

Above the Solar Sphere regular human beings do not have Individuality anymore. We are already part of a Group-Consciousness.

 

Above the Jupiterian Sphere there is no "humanity" anymore. The Saturnian Sphere is already on the verge of the Limits of Existance for what we call "humanity".

 

There are, however, classes of entities which can go beyond those levels. For instance, by reaching enlightment it is possible to leave humanity behind and achieve individuality on the level of the Martian sphere.

 

That said, death of the physical boddy do not allow for imediate return to the un-individual states of existance.

 

Most people just exist on the emotional plane after death. Plus, differently from here, destroying the emotional body (or soul) completely is impossible.

 

It is possible to mutilate it, to drain it of energy, to make it mutated and semi-destroyed, but there is a basic level of immortality to it.

 

In fact, it is to avoid the deterioration of the emotional body to a state of great suffering that most submit themselves to reincarnation on a new physical body, even if most in the situation of death see this as "dying" in the soul world, whislt the actual death of the emotional body is seen as "ascention".

 

That because, to reach the "gift" of death in the emotional plane it's necessary to reach a certain level of spiritual enlightnment.

 

Not to become buddha or something, but at least on the level of a Bodissatva, since it is necessary to be able to remain in the emotional plane indefinitely, cristalizing the existence of the emotional body there - meaning to be out of Samsara.

 

So, yes, when death comes we can rise out of the physical body and "shed" the "skin" of the multiple subtle bodies we have.

 

The first "skin" is the emotional body, or astral body, or soul, which must be first purified to the highest possible level and then abbandoned and finally scatter.

 

The difference is we actually need to seek for it and work towards it - while in the physical plane we seek to keep life.

 

 

 

Another question, if past life regression is possible, why not future life progression? Is there a ring pass not, wherein we can guide the mind to the past but not the future, if time collapses in the subtler fields underneath reality, it seems like both should be possible, in that we can access all lives (sensory input and subsequent reactions) through the memory of Nature, so that life experience is not limited to an ego or HG/daimon.

 

 

I know at least a couple people who have experienced future progression.

 

However, the thing with future is that it isn't written in stone.

 

There are multiple futures, and we, that is, our consciousness, will experience only one of them at a time (at least i don't know of anyone experiencing more than one at the same time).

 

So, it is possible to do a progression, see a perfectly possible future, and then just don't live it.

 

I have had, once or twice in my life, a few flases of future insight. I also know of people who had them.

 

Now, the interesting thing is, in one of them I was having a discussion with my mother. I used a certain argument, it became sour.

 

When the thing started to happen in real life, i, remembering the argument which turned the discussion sour, decided to change it.

 

And it did change. The discussion didn't became sour.

 

My brother-in-law also had future insight on a possible driving accident. He saw himself driving, and a man would pass the red light and crash into him.

 

As it commonly happens, he saw the vision, forgot it, and in the day the thing was going to happen, he remembered it.

 

So, he hit the brakes on time, and the guy didn't crash on him.

 

Now, the opposit has also happened with me.

 

I have also seen a scene of future, and done the thing i saw myself doing. What happened?

 

The scene progressed as it was perceived by me in the first place.

 

On another note, i did have some passing stuff, like perceiving just myself sat somewhere with a certain emotion or mental state. Not seeing how i got on this condition, i couldn't do a thing to avoid it.

 

So, the simple knowledge of future is enought to change it. The greater the knowledge, the more you can choose what to keep and what to change - but the smaller it is, the less power you have.

 

By having a progression you take a risk.

 

You may change the future without desiring it. You may keep it because you don't know how to change it, or if it is even possible to change it, or you may just get lucky and see enough to allow yourself to control what will happen.

 

Regardless, it's an interesting practice.

Through regression i have been able to see a little bit of 2 or 3 of my past lives.

 

Here are my impressions on the subject:

 

I know it was me. I recognize my own "existence" there. However, i do not see that person as the "me" i am today. I had different values. I behaved totally differently. If you put those two man in the same room as me you would say there are three completely different people there.

Even though i could feel... well... my "essence" ? My "sparkle" ? My.... something... there. Not my values, my morals, my sense of who i am... just a "something" which goes from life to life and can serve as a bridge between all of them.

 

Now, some say that isn't "you". That "you" is the Ego, the morals and values, the religion and whatnot you have built for yourself in your life.

 

I don't think this way. I say this "thing" is "me", and the rest is just the many personalities i had in times past, due to how i was raised and lived on different times. Just how i will have a new personality in five years, or ten years from. Just how i will live things in the future which will change me to a point were i'm not the same person i'm today anymore.

 

And it doesn't has much to do with sin. It's just that the person "there" is related to me on the same degree the person i was when i was 5 years old is related to me today.

 

Which means, the same way the things i did when i was 5 affect my present life by means of my unconscious mind, so do those things from those times. Plain psychology, that's one of the facets of karma in my view.

 

The hermetic, buddistic and taoist visions on the theme - which bring the idea of the returning spirit without mind or souls, is, on my opinion, a way of focusing on the change instead of focusing on the connections between one life and the other. 

 

For me, the connection is what i am. The change is just on things i had.

 

And that is why i'm not more affraid of reincarnation than i am of just keep living. It's mainly the same thing in my view.

 

That and a little bit of other stuff related to channeling and spirits which didn't scatte after death, but, well, that's a point to be discussed latter