grassmountiansage

I thought I would put this on so people can openly discuss some of the arts that have emerged from China including the Tai shang Men sect or Xiao Yao Pai, who according to their site did not emerge from China until the 1990's.

 

Effilang on this board has removed my posts when I have pointed out some discrepancies in what he is saying and practicing. I find this a little childish as it should be an open discussion. Unlike him, I welcome him to comment on this thread.

 

I have uploaded a brief but precise understanding about what happened in China Under Mao and how any spiritual or martial arts that now come out of China are really only half cooked. One can see why and it is truly a problem for any potential spiritual or martial arts student to weave a path through the mine field. 

 

Effilang's Shen Gong video is an example of a complete mixture of all manner of styles (not necessarily martial/spiritual) and knowledge and is more Shaolin than he would want to admit to. It is certainly not Daoist and as Tai Sung Lo Jun lived many hundreds of years before Buddhism entered China, I don't see how he can claim that what he was doing came from Tai Sung Lo Jun. Tai Sung Lo Jun had become a realised top Immortal, he did not need to learn the Shaolin 'One finger Zen Hand' that Effilang demonstrated, many hundreds of years later as a top Immortal. Any student of Tai Sung in the Heavens, would also not be using this hand form for they would not have been taught it by Tai Sung Lo Jun.

 

Tai Sung is a top Immortal he does not do things on a whim when someone asks him to do this; he is not a servant.

 

I have offered Effilang help but he refuses even to listen to what I have to say.

 

Can we really trust the arts that have emerged from China?

Yes the original authentic sects and masters either fled to hong kong taiwan indonesia america and so forth or they went silent.

Chairman Mao was the biggest hypocrite to have ever lived!

In China there are "teachers" who took the plubic Longmen teachings to build up their own system and call it Longmenpai, same with Wu-Liu pai, on wechat there are advertisments for Wu-Liu pai neidan courses, but when you investigate it further, it seems that what they teach is only their own theoretical understanding of the Wu-Liu pai canon mixed with their experience in various methods of breath work, meditation and taijiquan. 

Personally, i don't see why disciples from the real two schools would be interested in Xiaoyaopai since the systems they practice are already complete, another reason i think why they would not be interested is that in the context of immortality, past Teachers and patriarchs of a lineage are supposed to be still on duty at various levels of the transmission line...

Can you make sure and prove that the students you are talking about are initiated in the real schools and not students from the counterfiets? 

We from authentic pai may have another interest in Xiao Yao Pai it is always useful to make friends plus if the tao in the west is to grow we must give it some room its good if the sects talk and do some light jousting in time a mutual respect will build.

 

I want to open up a little about our relationship with Hu Fa Shen through our xiudao (Cultivation of the Dao)

 

0: Dao Yu (道友)

Here HFS treats us like primary or elementary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will help us by holding us up and making sure we don't get hurt.

 

1: Dao Shi (道仕)

Here HFS treats us like secondary school students.

If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will caution us, but we must carry ourselves and jump of our own accord if necessary

 

2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c.

Here HFS treats us like university students and we already have significant independence and maturity.

If we come across a steep ravine, we are expected to be able to see it ourselves and take the necessary actions.

At this level even if we fall, HFS just observes us and waits for us to take charge and get up.

 

3. Dao Zun (道尊)

Here HFS treats us like graduates from the university of life.

A this point, we are completely independent and on a level where we can work in union with HFS to help others on the most profound spiritual levels.

 

4. Dao Shi (道师)

Here we are granted the authority to represent Tai Shang Lao Jun as official representatives of the celestial realm.

The Daoshi is authorised to delegate representation to those that reach Dao Zun level, so they can initiate others on their behalf.

 

Heavenly title is very important. 

As a taoist the higher one goes the more aware one becomes of the heavenly court.

In my experience it all started with leigong at first I just noticed that he was starring at me. Later I learned that my training was connected to him and that he is known for judging people and serving heaven's justice one who does his alchemy must walk his path.

The 3 pure ones that your sect is connected to is highly revered if you are giving people a chance to get heavenly title that is good and something that a lot of teachers in the community dont talk about normally something like this is only for authentic taoist sects and for the successors of such sects in some cases.

The tao will only send people out to call others back to the tao.

 

Hi grassmountainsage.

 

"Use" them wouldn't really be the right way to say it. You can't use Hu Fa Shen. They are an independent conscious being. You can certainly feel free to ask them though. A request would be a more appropriate way to term it.

 

Even though they act as our friend, protector and mentor, they are still Xian Shen, so we should show some basic respect.

 

So if you want to learn something in particular from your HFS, you can ask. Usually I ask some silly scientific questions and on a few other occasions, I've asked for help with more mundane daily things, like which interview to reject for a job and which one to wait for, which city to move to, and on some other occasions a Dao Bum here humbly asked for some form of proof, so he sent me test questions about the burial location of his deceased grandparents; so I obliged and HFS helped with the location. Things like that.

 

The connection to HFS develops just like with any other relationship.

Some of the new Dao Yu texted me yesterday after they had a flight to Rome to meet their sister, saying how they never get bored now, because they can always just communicate with HFS.

 

I don't offer confirmations like that anymore, but sometimes if the person is genuine I can work with Tai Shang and my HFS to "move" someone in another location, so they can have a personal experience. This is a new skill which I recently cultivated.

 

Again, I prefer for people to make the leap themselves and just come and verify it of their own accord during an initiation. Some people travel from half way across the world, some even came from Peru to the UK this year to confirm it, so why should it be so easy for others? Everyone must make a little effort.

 

Another lady called me on the day of the initiation, saying she is terribly ill, can't move and has been throwing up all morning. I just gave her some words of inspiration and she found the courage to make it even though she arrived much later. She still got initiated, received HFS and had an amazing weekend.

 

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What stops it from becoming violent?

 

The quality of the Xian Shen. They are at a very high level of wisdom and consciousness, so we've never had a record of anything like that. Not once since we became public in 1970 and not from anyone of our 140,000+ practitioners. Hu Fa Shen always works to your highest benefit. They are on duty by Tai Shang Lao Jun.

 

Furthermore every Hu Fa Shen must first be authorised by Tai Shang before they can guide anyone under the celestial branch of our school. So you could say they also go through an application and interview to apply for the position. Then they must follow the curriculum of our school. Its similar to a physical brick and mortar educational institution and the Xian have their posts and responsibilities.

 

Our HFS have already refined their negative personality traits and express themselves as a unified being directly from emptiness, so their Mind, Speech, Heart and Action are collapsed into one expression and they are governed by the pre-heavenly virtues, not the acquired post-heavenly hindrances.

 

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Does one develop the ability to heal others, internal power, some type of spiritual power and so forth?

 

Yes of course, naturally. We practise spiritual cultivation, so all this manifests through practice.

 

We develop the 6 Transportations of Shen as well as the 8 Supernatural Powers. In addition to that we learn additional skills specific to our school. I can think of around 7 others off the top of my head, but in total they are 26 and this does not include the skills you will learn from other immortals with which you choose to interact and learn from. So in total that's 40.

 

I cannot go into too much detail about many of the additional 26 skills, but I can speak of the 8 + 6 as they develop in every individual who cultivates authentic spiritual methods, regardless of their tradition.

 

The 6 Skills of the Shen are:

 

1. You can see and understand the Present without discrimination.

2. You can see and understand the Past and the Future without discrimination.

3. You can know a person's thoughts.

4. You can read a person's karma and destinty, both the given destinty and the projection of the acquired destiny.

5. You can hear the spiritual realm and physical realm.

6. You can explore the universe.

 

The 8 Xian Skills are:

 

1. You can become light, levitate and use soul projection.

2. You can become heavy.

3. You can shrink the spirit body to an infinite size and observe minute processes.

4. You can expand the spirit body to an infinite size and observe grand processes.

5. You can control the 5 elements and create physical matter.

6. You can manifest and enjoy your wishes.

7. You can manifest any energetic form.

8. You can control animate and inanimate objects.

 

A few of those which are specific to our school are:

 

1. The ability to communicate with any divine being.

2. The ability to repel evil spirits within a huge radius.

3. The ability to clear a space of negative energy and purify it.

4. The ability to consecrate an altar or place and have a Xian guard it.

5. The ability to ascertain if there is "magic" or "power" in a place or object.

 

etc.

 

Most of these skills are developed gradually, because they come as our spirit is strengthened and they become a part of our being, but It's not a snap of the fingers reaction. Others are granted as our awareness and Gong De grows. These are like gifts that are bestowed upon us as members of our school, but they too must also be earned. Sometimes a skill is granted to test our character, other times it is taken away to trigger the very same reaction.

 

To try and explain this, think of a general in an army.

 

His uniform and status allows him a certain authority ie: to command the army, give orders and even launch small controlled tactical nukes. His position bestows him a lot of power, but if he is demoted or losses his post he also losses those privileges.

 

These types of skills are similar to some of those granted to us as our wisdom and awareness develops, but if we leave the school or act unvirtuously, they can be stripped.

 

On the other hand, the general has another set of personal skills which cannot be taken away. Those are the ones he cultivates through his own effort ie: his personal martial ability, his gun handling ability, his skills in tactics and strategy, navigation and so on and so forth. These skills no matter whether he remains a general or not are always there : )

 

I hope that helps to clarify their differences.

 

- In terms of healing others, we advise our practitioners not to do it until they open the MCO in our system, but this requires the instruction of Jin Jia Shen who appears when the Ren and Du mei are ready to be connected in the way of our school, which is very different from how the Ren and Du are connected and flow in other systems. This allows us to recharge our energy quickly so we can more rapidly transform and apply our energy to another human through Wai Qi Liao Fa safely and without exhausting our own energy reserves. Otherwise the energy we cultivate is too fine to use on a typical Hun Shen (human spirit), so in our school we must do some work to learn how to step the energy down so that it does not shock another persons spirit. We have to tune it down from Wuji to Taiji so we can apply it in the physical dimension safely, if that makes sense, otherwise it can overwhelm another persons spirit.

 

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What does long term and short term practice get you?

 

Long Term: Yang Shen Spiritual Immortality and Kong

Short Term: Clarity, Peace, Lack of Prejudice, Vitality, Alleviation of Physical ailments, basic spiritual skills.

 

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Can this be done with taichi? Does it enhance taichi or my other practices?

 

Yes it is fine. Most people who study Taiji that become initiated, usually report an enhanced practice. Stronger energy, rooting, a better perception and sensitivity to energy and correction from Hu Fa Shen during practice for postural alignment etc.

 

At the beginning it is fine to continue to practice whatever you wish on the side, but eventually our practice becomes quite specific so at some point a practitioner will have to step in with both feet if they want to fulfil the more advanced steps in our spiritual curriculum.

 

Between the "beginning" and "eventually" is a time frame that will vary depending on our talents and consistency of practice. For some it can be 5 years for others 10.

 

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What if one no longer wants to do Xiao Yao Pai is there a un-initiation?

 

I think I might have answered this one before. One need only address Tai Shang directly and make a formal request and the apprenticeship will be dissolved. No strings attached.

 

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Now if your a pai then you should have some rare herbal tonics and teas is this correct?

 

It's not part of our primary curriculum, but the Dao Yu can request lessons on the topic from their HFS or contact a specialised HFS whom excels in these skills. It's fine.

 

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Does the training develop a strong wei field?

 

Yes, quite, but the expansion is mostly in the spiritual field, which can extend quite a lot. I can usually feel my master in a nearby location even if I can't see him. His spiritual energy would rush up my body like a reverse waterfall.

 

This was my sensation in the beginning, now I do not feel it so anymore as I've adapted to the frequency of our school. So usually now, I just feel an initial connection if I come in contact with their aura, but after that there is no sensation anymore, because I've adapted to it through my own practice and absorbing divine energy during Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu.

 

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Are there levels to this system and if so how many?

 

5 (8)

 

0: Dao Yu (道友)

1: Dao Shi (道仕)

2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c.

3. Dao Zun (道尊)

4. Dao Shi (道师)

 

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Also do you guys have a lineage chart?

 

No we don't. We have two reasons for this in our tradition.

 

1. We are not a Houtian system, so we don't follow a human master. In Xiantian we learn from Hu Fa Shen.

- So there's no way to show a chart with an immortals name, because It can't be verified by the observer in a way that can allow them to authenticate or determine the quality of the school. For that we have initiation, so they can feel the immortal directly as a form of proof.

 

2. A lineage chart is not proof of anything. It's just something to help ease the mind of the inquirer. 

- So to provide that assurance, we act as a teacher of the martial arts would in ancient times. We say fight me. If you can beat me, then I can't teach you anything, but If I can beat you then you can learn something from me. To us this is embodied in our initiation. So anyone who is curious about whether what we say is true or false, can just come and test it then they can decide based on that. No bullshit, no gimmicks, no "trust me" this lineage chart is legit. We focus on what we can prove in the present, not what was in the past. We're trying to move forward not back right? So each person must employ the attitude of a scientist and seek proof when they decide to join XYP. We don't entertain the mind of a follower or encourage faith and we don't believe in what we can't experience.

 

We have to shift from Philosophy (Theory) to Action (Experience) and then to produce Results (Skill).

 

So again, in our tradition, we use the initiation to provide immediate experience and results so that there is no ambiguity of any sort.

 

Again, here we differ quite a bit from many schools, but this is generally due to us being Xiantian and not Houtian.

 

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Here's my question what are you guys cultivating I know you train to reach yang shen but what do you call it in your system. 

 

We also call it Yang Shen. First Xiao Shen, then Yang Shen as the 3 Hun and 7 Po fuse deeper together to form the unified conscious immortal being.

 

Best wishes.

 

PS: While I was writing this one of our members who came from Belgium that was initiated last weekend just texted me saying she had an amazing experience and she's able to channel HFS directly through her voice to have conversations. She said how is it possible that we can develop such spiritual skills so early on. She couldn't believe it lol - I'm very happy for her : )

 

PPS: She comes from a previous tradition of Buddhism and received Shaktipath in India from her former Master. 

 

Thank you for answering my questions on your sect and its training.

I would agree that working with a higher /divine energy is required in high level energy work.

So does the levels in your system have meditations outside the work with xian?

Also since there is 5 levels does what level does yang shen happen at? Is it really possible for a good student to move to the 5th level of your art?

Now when you say convert the body into light do you mean at will and be able to come back into physical form again?

Furthermore every Hu Fa Shen must first be authorised by Tai Shang before they can guide anyone under the celestial branch of our school. So you could say they also go through an application and interview to apply for the position. Then they must follow the curriculum of our school. Its similar to a physical brick and mortar educational institution and the Xian have their posts and responsibilities.

Thank you for answering my questions on your sect and its training.

 

Could you elaborate on this?

You seem connected with taoist heaven plenty of taoist beleive that lao tzu was an incarnation of Tai Shang Lao Jun have you interacted with him and if so what could you tell us he is like and have you ran into the jade emperor or leigong?

So to battle my copy and paste you also copy and paste? - Good one, hehe 

 

I think that there is a reason why Bodhidharma's attribution to Yinjing Jing and Xi Sui Jing is called a "legend"... Because according to a legend, according to a legend, according to a legend so and so happened : )

 

If the 28th Patriarch of Buddhism had such amazing gongfu skills, then how about his master and how about the following patriarchs to whom he transmitted his teachings? Where is their representation of this "martial" skill?

 

What about Hui Kom, Dao Xin, Hui Neng and so on, are they proficient in gongfu also based on "Buddhist" teachings? If all the secrets were transmitted from Buddhism, then where is also their gongfu prowess?

 

Out of all the Patriarchs, is Bodhidharma the only one who was adept at gongfu? How come?

How is it possible, what of before and after him?

 

Where are his practising brothers in gongfu, or did he practice with his shadow only to become such a master?

Did Bodhidharma learn gongfu from his teacher Prajnatara? Where are the records?

 

Is he even from the lineage of Sakyamuni? Where are the records? How can we prove it TODAY?!!!

 

Let's not forget that early Theravadin and Mahayana Buddhism are non-violent religions and don't promote the concept of martial skill and power. It is basic Vinaya....Zen on the other hand is something different and already has strong Daoist influences.

 

If gongfu was created to protect the Buddha's teachings, where are the accounts of these martial monks in Theravada Buddhism? Where are their martial monks, protectors of Skayamuni's teachings in India and Thailand today? Where can I go to see them? Was Bodhidharma so fond of the Chinese that he only wanted to protect Buddhism in China?

 

Please use your simple logic instead of following something that someone else wrote, who is following something that someone else wrote. Forget the past. What can you prove TODAY! Right now, in this time of our living breath. That's the key.

 

Shaolin was not the only temple whose inhabitants were "smart" enough to go high up Songshan and build. In fact the grotto-heavens were sacred locations long before any sort of Buddhist temples were established there, and this is a Daoist notion.

 

What of all the other Buddhist temples around Shaolin?

Did they also inherit gongfu and if they didn't, why not?

 

Did you know that a lot of the monks who joined the Shaolin temple were just normal members of society and already had martial skills under their belt before entering...even before Bodhidharma arrived in China.... surely they shared some of their knowledge with the weakly monks...

 

Did you know of all the martial artists who stayed at the Shaolin monastery that were never ordained?

 

If you search through ancient Confucian history you will come across accounts of Buddhist monks who were drafted into armies and whom participated in military wars as early as 300 years after the death of Damo and even before... Trust me, it was not only to "protect" the Buddhas teachings..... Serving the emperor came with many valuable rewards. The type that would easily allow a monastery to quickly rise above all others and maintain the emperor's favour.

 

Many Buddhist temples suffered due wars, political and religious interests. Why was only one temple given the means to protect itself and all other's neglected?

 

How come White Horse Temple, the first official Buddhist temple in China never inherited gongfu from Damo?

What's so special about the monks of Shaolin that only they were granted this?

Why didn't any of the other fighting monks from other temples who safeguarded Buddhism also learn from Damo?

 

What about Zhongyue temple that was also on Songshan?

Boddhidarma didn't teach them gongfu also so they can protect themselves?

 

Why did he discriminate them?

 

Why did Shaolin monks fight for the emperor but the earlier established Zhongyue monks did not?

Many of the monks who refused to fight were executed...

 

Maybe the Shaolin monks picked up some tricks from the military during their interactions?

 

Where are the accounts of the amazing fighting monks and protectors of the Buddha's teachings who battled against the Hun and the Muslim invasions in their own countries? Did they use their gongfu then? History tells a very different story. Thousands were slaughtered and 100s of temples were destroyed, and the peaceful silent sitting monks were murdered in cold blood.

 

Many of the temples were already militarised way before Damo arrived...

 

Why do some light themselves on fire while others fight and which one is the truth teaching of Buddha?

Up till today the Buddhists sects still can't decide among themselves who has the true word of the Buddha and it's not very different in Taoism.

 

It's always easy to copy and paste, but what about asking the real questions and questioning these "legends"?

Because lets face it, all this is just legend... None of it is verified.

How can we prove it today? What's the method?

 

I prefer to ask and think about it than follow blindly.

 

Finally, this thread is not about Shaolin, it is about Xiao Yao Pai, so I'd like to kindly ask you to continue the discussion elsewhere and keep the thread on topic and constructive or to please stop posting. Feel free to copy my posts if you wish to lead a discussion of them somewhere else.

 

I probably don't have to remind you, but you always have the option to create your own thread and discuss these things there in detail without derailing our schools thread here.

 

I think this will guarantee that the people who come here to learn about XYP will have relevant information to look forward to in the area of their interest; such that reflects the title on this thread; and not the disciplines of other schools, their traditions or their beliefs.

 

Best wishes.

Your asking alot of questions about shaolin...let me tell you this sil lum pai is resepected all over china and for good reason it is very powerful alchemy...and im not talking about the stuff easily found on the internet.

but if you dont know you dont know but it seems you need more education on that.

You mean in the same fake field?

lol

 Yet the hand forms you have shown are those from the Southern Shaolin Monastery and not from any genuine Daoist school; one very large hole. 

He is right on this I noticed it as well but wasnt going to say anything on it but flowing hands is right.

The meditation to me looked like very old  shaolin.

You might still end up in exactly the same place.  People dissing what you write as coming from Fake Immortals.  Posts about fake techniques, fake dantiens, microcosmic orbits and there arrogant superiority.   While the threads here do talk about experiences extremely few mention talks to immortals or visiting Lao Zi.  That's what you've glomed onto. 

 

Instead of finding or creating and sustaining worthwhile threads, its easy to criticize members who's focus is elsewhere or considered not 'Tao' enough.  We do have heavy hitters here, people of experience and dedication, but they out numbered by those who are just starting out and want to learn more.  The Dao Bums want a medium where all are welcome.

 

You'll find if your site lasts long enough you'll be hit the same criticisms, you're giving us, that you're a fake, teaching wrong doctrines and not serious enough.  It comes with the territory.

 

I encourage those who are looking for hard core, to create threads in the Tao Discussion area (usually less fluff), protected areas or PPD's where they have more control and can find others and share there experiences, teach and learn.

Nah I think opendao is right on this one.

Theres nothing wrong with calling things as you see them if your in the same field.

With any authentic practice and any authentic pai one will eventually start to see buddhas taoist saints or gods that is assoicated with the lineage anyways it happens in time with authentic training.

What im not seeing is for a lineage to be thousands years old and authentic im not seeing a stand alone high level practice rare herbal formulas a lineage chart no mention of the master interesting healing methods or a break down of how the alchemy from their shan works.

Couldnt have put it better myself.

Maybe start your own thread and describe what powers/skills you and your master have and can demonstrate? Then forum members can directly compare.

Im not that invested in it.

Here's my thing I asked basic questions on cultivation like experience of the teacher healing mco and so forth.

They could have just answered it and won me over they didnt or they chose not too.

Not sure why exactly would have been much simpler to answer basic questions which isnt an insult or against the rules.

Here's my thing why would I or any experience practitioner in their art leave their art and do this practice without having some things answered first.

I shouldnt have to meet you and so forth to get a simple question on the mco in relation to your art answered for that is literally the whole point of asking questions in the first place is to see if this is something worthwhile or not.

Doesn't matter who it is. It's fine. See you at the next initiation : )

Ha ha you dont know. Why does everyone act so high ha ha.

u come on a taoist forum and think that you are the only one. 

Only true sincerity and humility can reflect the natural state.

The only thing a taoist fears is the virtue of others.

We come from a gate that represents the earthly plane if someone of our lineage shows up it means that your lineage has fucked up.....

We come from the divine qilin of heaven that sits on the right and left hand of god sent to protect this realm but yes we will come check you out it is our right to remove lineages off of the map.

Thus is the right of all of those who have the purple gold elixir.

Btw we know all of what happen from persia to india to china....

No need for questions. I look forward to meeting your Sifu at next years initiation.

 

Good luck. 

 You can meet me. ...lol

Ill hold you to your word.

you speak of the taichi gate but not the one above it the dragon gate.

Oh well.

I kindly provided you with a link to where you could find all the answers to the questions you asked and I clearly told you I had answered them there before. Did I not?

 

Despite that you continued. I'm sorry that you feel entitled, but I don't owe you any special service : )

In regards to your master, please, PLEASE, PLEASE, tell him to check on us.

 

I would love nothing more!

Invite him to the next initiation so he can test us directly.

 

You can extend an official invitation to him from me and he can contact me directly via e-mail if he wishes [email protected]

 

That aside, If you're happy to tone down and keep on topic, I'm more than happy to attend to you, otherwise I will keep this thread decent and on topic - and after all, lets be reasonable: You can't really make any claims about anything that has to do with our school, because you've never been to an initiation : )

 

Talk is cheap, so lets do this.

Come and test it : )

 

Best wishes 

You had best be careful if your sect does not have the purple gold elixir currently then....

I will tell my sifu but answering simple questions will help your cause.

All alchemy comes from heaven we know of the 3 pure ones you mention but to our understanding a new guardian of the taichi gate has not been chosen...

My sifu knows  all I do Ive already told him so be good for goodness sake....

Xiao Yao Pai you made a mistake by deleting my post......

I asked fair questions in the open so all could see.

None of the questions were insults in any way now ill tell my cantonese master to look at Xiao Yao Pai...

where there's smoke there's fire.

Actually, because I'm authentic, I can do whatever it is I want to, and that includes choosing who to answer and who not to answer based on their attitude.

 

I was already typing up the answers to your questions, despite having answered them many times before, but after that message, I think I can definitely find something better to do with my time, especially on my birthday

 

If you wish to, you can search our Facebook group for the answers to all those questions, or not.

It's entirely up to you. I don't owe you even one peanut : )

 

Best wishes.

Xuan Daoji

Whatever that was days ago when I posted that you said you were going to I waited now your going back on your word...

being authentic means you can answer basic questions I dont know seems a bit shady to me...

Yes very cool exp.

 

So as in relation to skill or ability does this mean the spirit immortal can be used for other things as well?

 

What stops it from becoming violent?

 

Does one develop the ability to heal others, internal power, some type of spiritual power and so forth?

 

What does long term and short term practice get you?

 

Can this be done with taichi? Does it enhance taichi or my other practices?

 

What if one no longer wants to do Xiao Yao Pai is there a un-initiation?

 

Now if your a pai then you should have some rare herbal tonics and teas is this correct?

 

Does the training develop a strong wei field?

Are there levels to this system  and if so how many?

Also do you guys have a lineage chart?

 

Is the mco orbit opened with this practice if so is it early on or later?

Here's my question what are you guys cultivating I know you train to reach yang shen but what do you call it in your system. Also other than good health and feeling good what else can be cultivated thru this art like what skill is the pai known for?

Answers please should be very simple to answer if you are authentic.....

Grassmountainsage. I promise to answer your questions after we wrap up the UK initiation in London this weekend.

 

ok.

Also do you guys have a lineage chart?

Is the mco orbit opened with this practice if so is it early on or later?

Are there levels to this system  and if so how many?

" If an Immortal (a very wise being) wants to teach you they will come to you physically first, never mentally, you will be thrown around like a rag doll sometimes, you will understand that they are there and they will move you so powerfully..."---FH

 

don't i know it.   when i returned home after my 2012 initiation i was punched (in a friendly way) stoutly in the shoulder by an unseen being that said "goooood" in a voice i could not determine if it was male or female. and i have been thrown around like a rag doll numerous times. one night in 2014, my son (who was not initiated) was visiting from florida and i had hoped he could help me do some work on my house, but he had been complaining about a serious shoulder injury, one morning when he got up, he told me some strange unseen being visited him was manipulating in shoulder and arm in strange ways, long story short his shoulder was fixed and my housework got done. 

 

edit>> i disagree about it having to be physical first rather than mental, but, one does need to have it become physical as soon as possible. bagua play has never been the same.   

Yes very cool exp.

So as in relation to skill or ability does this mean the spirit immortal can be used for other things as well?

What stops it from becoming violent?

Does one develop the ability to heal others, internal power, some type of spiritual power and so forth?

What does long term and short term practice get you?

Can this be done with taichi? Does it enhance taichi or my other practices?

What if one no longer wants to do Xiao Yao Pai is there a un-initiation?

Now if your a pai then you should have some rare herbal tonics and teas is this correct?

Does the training develop a strong wei field?

Here's my question what are you guys cultivating I know you train to reach yang shen but what do you call it in your system. Also other than good health and feeling good what else can be cultivated thru this art like what skill is the pai known for?

Listen. Clarity only comes from true listening which goes into true feeling.

For without true feeling there is no understanding.

hows about you familiarize yourself with how a logical process works juxtaposed with proving a negative

I dont think you understand people are reporting this people from different locations over a period of a few years...

These people are giving testimony of a personal exp...Maybe you need to think before you post Joe.