grassmountiansage

The OP is something that when read will reflect your own  nature.

Not putting one creature above the other may seem ruthless but heaven and earth supports all equally.

Plus people adopt straw dogs or leave food and water out for them....

The OP is deep and makes one think on the nature of the heart on all things.

Ha ha you mean ungrounded chi still floating in your wei field....

What do you cal it when you hurt people un-purposely?...Novice. Remember its not skill if you cant control it.

even if you cultivate golden/purple/rainbow pill or whatever because it's product of taji so it also subject of cessation.

Yes for that is a higher training beyond those mentioned that correlate directly to the immortal realm.....

Ya know its not s simple as most make it sound its just not opening meridians or vessels.

 

You have to have the alchemy of the immortal realm. That alchemy itself acts a pass to move freely from the immortal realm and this realm.

 

the golden elixir and purple gold elixir lead to a lower attainment.

Ya know its not s simple as most make it sound its just not opening meridians or vessels.

You have to have the alchemy of the immortal realm. That alchemy itself acts a pass to move freely from the immortal realm and this realm.

the golden elixir and purple gold elixir lead to a lower attainment.

Teacher of Single Yang (WuLiupai):

 

"... This way you will create and strengthen Yangshen.

In future Yangshen will go to travel 1000s li, everywhere will pass through many countries, wonderfully using true emptiness will suddenly appear and disappear, come through the Heaven and the Earth, will be able to "walk on the Sun and play on the Moon", coming in the water he will not drawn, in the fire he will not burn, will be able to freely penetrate through metal and stone, and will feel contentment in everything.

 

Yin and yang would not be able to impact him, vice versa he will be able to change yin-yang, wuxing (5 elements) would not be able to transform him, vice versa he will be able to transform wuxing. The Lord of hell wouldn't be able to control your death, deities wouldn't be able to manage your life, you will be absolutely free in everything.

 

If you would like to stay a little more on the Earth you can help people, do great deeds and do what you love the most. If you would like to exit from profane to the sacred you will ascend in the illlumination upwards and will change your position. No matter you will stay in the mundane world or exit it, everywhere you will be able to help the world, benefit living creatures, straighten the correct and eradicate the evil, save from drought and flood, stop natural disasters and misfortunes.

 

You will be able to spread wonderful treatises, every day expounding a ten thousand words to spread the Dao and spread the law by "transmitting the lamp" to save everything living. In complete freedom with miraculous abilities you will be able to transform without limitations. Thus 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100 000, 1 000 000 calps, eternally being alive without burths and deaths, and up to form being divided to 100, 1000, 10000, 100 000 transformed bodies filling the Great Universe in an absolute freedom without limitations.

 

You would need to continue this achievement by further practice..."

Ive heard something like this before as this is the lore of the attainment. Very powerful.

 

What a karma, so many bad personal experiences with all the word's spiritual paths:

http://www.chiinnature.com/badpaths.html

 

(Worst is Kunlun of course, I remember Mak Tin Si was blaming Max for some of his health issues.)

 

If the path you follow is not listed, give him a call I'm sure he'll be happy to fix it.

Had to go to the wayback machine to resurrect this page.

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20130807144451/http://www.chiinnature.com/badpaths.html

 

#4) Kunlun the Spontaneous Chi Gung - Evil Practice

Mak Jo Si have been spreading the Tao continuously through out 1996 to recent. During 2007 was the time he spend time on some online forums of Taoism and started to write many articles about Taoism all over the place with the name of "Mak Tin Si". That is  his first time spreading Taoism like that and at that time he used the lineage name of "Ng Yin Do Pai" as well. It's the lineage before Tin Yat Lineage he held.

Long story short, he came across a famous Taoism forum with lots of people who called themselves "Taoist" but they are actually not actual Taoist. Later on, he found out these westerners are calling themselves "Taoist" just because they believe in the Taoism's theory or philosophy. Okay, we got common sense here now.

As Mak Jo Si talks in the forum, he was not welcomed nicely and his articles shocked the crowd because it was too different from what these westerners know. These westerners in the "TAOISM" forum was indeed very into Buddhism, Yoya, and many crooked practice like spontaneous chi gung. They are NOT into Taoism at all. When Mak Jo Si promote the old traditional way of Taoism, they never heard of it and never liked it. They even found him too superstitious!  What?  It's just what most Chinese knows commonly as Taoism though! How come they don't know about it? 

Enough. Mak Jo Si started to write in a more friendly way, going easy to spread the Taoism's tradition and so on. He offered people to try the power of Taoism by joining his lineage of NG YIN DO PAI back then for a fee of $90 to get enrolled into stage one practice. This stage is religious free and you can still believe in your own religion and path while learning Taoism stuff. it have attracted tons of people to join and try.

In the whole group of people who joined, MANY of them learned a form of practice called "Kunlun". It's a lineage formed by a westerner who dress like a Tibetan Buddhist but said his lineage is originated from Taoism's MaoShan and all they do is weird evil and creepy possession practice.  Many practitioners said they have problems with families fall apart, fights and arguments in the house, husband and wife getting divorce, business dropping down to zero, super mood swing all the time, depression, and so on. Their practice is like a "chi gung" practice but they get possessed and will move spontaneously. Most of them act like a wild animal or a beast when they are possessed as well. They feel a cold breeze and then things start to go into them and make them turn wild. It drains their healthy, body and mind. Many people who got into Mak Jo Si's lineage started to sense the "wrong" of this practice and even saw evil spirits around when they do Kunlun!  These people them know, it's not right.

Kunlun is evil.  It is a possession practice that channel animal spirits into the body and it drains your health, luck, life power and everything. It can destroy your life, ruin your business, break apart your family and none can escape these problems. 100% of Mak Jo Si's students back then who were in Kunlun all have problems and none of them are happy in life. If you got into this practice before, maybe it's time to quit it now. It will just haunt you down. No doubt.

 

You will have to wait for AAK's answer on the first questions, as his tradition is more familiar with that I think, because I see that you are saying we need to project to create the spiritual body, then come back into the body again for something else?

 

Ohh.. wait I understand what you're saying now.

 

So In houtian when the immortal child is born, what we call Xiao Shen (baby or small shen), we usually have to bring it back in to protect it, just like a new born baby. Especially because it is still unintelligent due to our not completing the fusion with awareness yet. So it is naive and susceptible to attack. So yes, it must be withdrawn into the body to continue the process of maturation or melding with our awareness.

 

In Xiantian the Xiao Shen does not need protection because we are wrapped with divine energy, so we have no reason to withdraw it, but projecting the Xiao Shen is not fully synonymous with entering Wuji. Just like the energy of the Ren and Du meridians can change its property to synchronize with divine energy, but the meridians don't have to move. Nevertheless, the projection or birth is important, because it is part of the maturation process of the Yang Shen. Just like a physical baby cannot begin to live until it is delivered. 

 

There is also a difference between someone giving you a rubber hose to use to give yourself water (divine energy) and jumping in the sea.

 

So, what im trying to say is that, whether the Yang Shen is outside or inside the body, it is always connected to Wuji. We can absorb divine energy inside the body or outside the body, but for houtian practitioners its safer to recall it back to the body to protect it while it matures, but they still continue to absorb divine energy from Wuji, just a little more differently.

 

The frequency of our awareness is what allows us to channel and sustain the state of Wuji through which we absorb divine awareness. So its not an ability triggered by the Yang Shen, but by our awareness. That's why during initiation we trigger the Shen in the apprentice, so that there awareness can tune the radio to the right frequency immediately, then we just wu wei.

 

So there is no need for the Yang Shen to MOVE in a physical way, because it is beyond space-time and inter-dimensional. So by being here, it is also there simultaneously. Our awareness and our soul also has this property, so actually a part of the human is always connected to the divine 24/7, even before they begin Neidan, even just after we are born, but our conscious awareness of this is what triggers our interaction with it on a practical level. So houtian builds a trigger to activate this, while xiantian methods start with the trigger, we just pull and fire.

 

For houtian practitioners, after the Xiao Shen is born, they cannot abandon the body, they must continue to cultivate for a long time until it is mature and aware. That's why houtian also places such a big emphasis on the physical body, because they need it to live as long as possible to finish the process, but in xiantian in XYP, after our energy congeals into Xiao Yan Shen, even if we die, HFS just guides us and protects us in the divine realm so we can continue to cultivate there and absorb divine energy. This is why in xiantian in XYP, we don't focus on the physical body beyond basic health. We have no diets. Nobody has to be a vegetarian. Eat what you like, do what you like, drink what you like. Like Lu Dong Bin eh? -  It does not affect our spirit work. That is naturalness (ziran). No rules. The Dao is the way without a way. That is why the moment we trigger real Neidan, it's wuwei from there on. The mind has no business at this level : )

 

In essence, after our Yang Shen begins to fuse with our awareness, it is like our awareness is delivered from the mother Earth (Taiji), that granted us the experiences necessary to evolve our awareness trough lifetimes, and into the spiritual world (Wuji), then it must mature (transfer/upload) together with the developing Yang Shen to become one.

 

PS: If breathing is involved with the MCO, it's still Qigong, because the breath is needed to support the movement of Qi. Later when the awareness integrates with the Qi, breath is not needed to fan or move it. Just mind.

Much to think on thank you.

 

 

 

I'm curious about the notion of Buddhists developing the body. If we're speaking of the two major forms of Buddhism, IME from living in monasteries and meeting bikkkhu and bikkhuni, that have been practicing upwards of 30 years in the sangha, I had yet to find one that was not feeble bodied and weak and there was never any body cultivation, only awareness and wisdom cultivation, but that lacks the development of the divine vehicle with which the awareness fuses: Yang Shen. In fact they even advised against doing physical exercise to enhance the body as it "attached" our awareness to the the body.

 

My issue with most Buddhist practice is that it is forming:

 

You have, the 4 noble truths, the 8 precepts, renunciation, completion and generation stage practice visualization etc.

All these have sets of rules to be followed, which help to point one in the direction of detaching from worldly life.

 

Do not do this, do that.

Do that, do not do this.

Visualize this, not that.

 

It is forming, and the form that those rules create tune the mind to a certain frequency; that is why the mind of a typical Buddhist has a form; the Buddhist form, fashioned by their many rules and literature.

 

This form has its own frequency which supposedly takes one to the highest goal, but the highest goal is the Dao and the Dao is formless, so how can the conceptual form of rules synchronize us with the highest goal, and how can form take us to the highest which is formless?

 

Kong = emptiness.

Empty, but not void. 

 

So something is missing there.

 

The immortals I know are happy, laughing, enjoy pleasure and delight and love to experience and appreciate existence.

This type of attitude is very different to the principles of Buddhism which encourage detachment from senses and abandoning the world to live a holy life. Even Nirvana means to extinguish or blow out (the fire of the three poisons), but In Daoism we grab the bull by the horns and jump on it's back and enjoy the ride. We are here to experience. It's very different.

 

We embrace the world, while Buddhists tend to look at is as illusory and avoid it. 

There is no illusion, the world is very real and our experience here is also very real and very important.

 

Why come to Earth, this beautiful planet teeming with life, creatures and experiences waiting to be had, if we were to simply hide away from it and seclude ourselves?

 

Daoism began by following nature. Nature does not hide away from itself, it embraces all.

 

I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.

 

This is how Buddha discovered Dhyana. He described it as being born of seclusion and convinced himself that we must move away from life to achieve it. Later when he left the palace for the first time, this further developed his idea that life was Dukkha and we must "escape" it. 

 

I'm sure that If I was kept in the palace all my life, fed grapes, got 8 hand massages from pretty ladies all day long, and pleasure and delight was all I knew of life, SURELY, when I left the palace and all I saw was sickness, death and old age - I would quickly develop an aversion to the reality of "life". That is why Buddhism looks at life so bitterly. It all stems from Buddha's initial reaction to reality and the idea about life as being something we must escape from, because his basis for this comparison and the conclusion that he established thereof was his privileged and lavish royal life.

 

If we look at the story of the three vinegar tasters, we see that:

 

- Kongfuzi said it was sour, because the world was imperfect and laws and regulations were needed to "correct" it.

- Buddha said it was bitter, because the world was filled with suffering and a method was needed to "escape" it.

- Laozi said it was sweet, because the world and all things had their inherent harmony, and rules only caused resistance against this natural flow, which needed not any "way" to be achieved, because we are already it, and so he looked at life positively and as having a sweet taste.

 

What is the purpose of spiritual cultivation?

 

To develop the spiritual body that can fuse with our awareness so we have a vehicle to traverse the spiritual realms.

We cannot create a spiritual body in the physical realm so we must first SHIFT our awareness to move from the physical realm (Taiji) to enter the spiritual realm (Wuji). The awareness actually has this multidimensional property.

 

Once the awareness has shifted into Wuji, we can begin to create the spiritual body (Yang Shen).

Then when we fuse the awareness to the developing spiritual body, we can slowly begin to operate it.

It's like we transfer our consciousness to it so it can absorb it fully, but it's not immediate, it is gradual.

 

That is why in some books they say that after the spiritual child is delivered from the top of the head into the spirit realm for the first time, it is still dull and stupid (just like a newborn baby) that has to absorb data through the senses to develop it's intelligence. The difference is that our intelligence has already developed as adults, so we just transfer it and fuse it into one body, then gradually the Yang Shen becomes operational. This is why, even though we get access to our former live's information and talents, immortals project themselves in the vision of their final earthly body and its corresponding awareness.

 

That is why it is SO VERY important to develop your intelligence and wisdom on Earth.

Here is where we can do it, because there are also OTHER PEOPLE here.

 

If we were alone, there is no way to advance, right? - Because we cannot interact with anyone.

Nobody can challenge us to make us angry, or jealous or anxious.

IF nobody or nothing is there to make those imperfections come up to the surface, how can we know they are there, waiting to be refined?

 

Can you see the importance now of entering society and being a part of life, vs leaving it to go into seclusion?

It is like shooting our potential for wisdom in the foot, but also for karma resolution. So we must live life as much as we can, it's for our own benefit. The spiritual body of the Dao itself cannot be inflicted with pain. That is why some theories claims that the Dao was so great and perfect, that it could not fully fathom its own perfection and infinity, so it spiraled down into physical existence so that through the imperfections and limitations of the physical body it could know itself completely, know its angers, know its frustrations, jealousies and pains - and then through that experience perfect them and rise above them to realize itself as Dao, in essence knowing its perfection through knowing its imperfection. It's an interesting theory : ) 

 

IF, we don't develop this intelligence and wisdom so we can refine our awareness and negative Yin characteristics, when what happens when we begin to develop the spiritual body and meld our awareness to it? I think you guessed it already. It cannot develop past Yin Shen level... Because we did not refine the Yin qualities.

 

I know monks who have been in the monastery for a looooooooong time. Longer than my time on earth.

They thought they had overcome all their negative characteristics, why? Because in the monastery everybody follows the rules, so nobody makes you angry, everybody is kind and compassionate. It is like trying to find a virus in a medical cleanroom; its very hard. So how can you know to refine your negative traits if they are never aroused? When they leave the monastery for the first time, they fall apart because the first person to insult them triggers them immediately and their whole wall of achievement crumbles in front of them.

 

The best swords are made in scorching fire, beaten between the anvil and the hammer, sparks flying.

 

So, the idea in Houtian is to raise our awareness from Jing to Qi to Shen after we reach Shen, then we are starting to push the membrane of Taiji - when we break that membrane, our awareness enters Wuji for the first time. HERE. We can begin to cultivate the immortal spiritual  body by absorbing the divine energy of Wuji into the spiritual body to solidify and strengthen it, just like the fetus absorbs the mothers energy to develop.

 

So, in Houtian we begin to build a bridge from one side of the cliff to the other.

When we get to the other side, we then start to cultivate the spirit by absorbing divine energy into the spiritual body to feed it and sustain it, so that it can develop from the spiritual sperm and egg (outer and inner medicines) to the zygote (great medicine) and from there turn into the embryo, then the fetus, then the baby (Xiao Shen Xien), then the baby is delivered from the top of the head to continue its growth. So before we can begin all this, in Houtian xiulian, we must ACTIVATE the Shen and breakout of Taiji, then we can start to ABSORB the divine energy from Wuji directly.

 

In Xiantian xiulian, we skip the building of the bridge entirely. During initiation our SHEN is activated on day one. Then through our assigned Hu Fa Shen tunes our awareness further so we start to absorb divine energy from Wuji from day one. Our spirit becomes wrapped with divine energy like a cocoon. That is the golden aura that wraps around every Dao Yu during initiation. Then when we sit down to practice and invite Hu Fa Shen, he guides our awareness to stay in Wuji, so we continue to absorb divine energy and our Yang Shen just develops naturally. So we enter Wu Wei in our Jing Zuo from day one. Then the transformation just happens automatically, no You Wei necessary at all.

 

The reason I say that our awareness is guided by HFS even after our SHEN is activated, is because your awareness cannot adjust in just one day after the initiation. We are used to having our awareness focused on our acquired earthly mind, so in the beginning stages of Xiantian practice, Hu Fa Shen will guide our awareness, and keep it in Wuji until we become conscious of its ability to shift between Taiji and Wuji, then we can independently MOVE it without Hu Fa Shen's guidance; and we just reside in Wuji and absorb divine energy so our Yang Shen grows.

 

This is why during initiation many people describe seeing the falling flowers and dancing snow, which is usually something you experience around the final stages of Taiji practice in Houtian when the immortal body breaks out of the head for the first time.

 

So the key is in the divine energy and absorbing it so that we can cultivate Hun Shen to Yin Shen to Yang Shen.

 

As someone who has practiced both systems, one of my greatest fascinations is connecting the dots between Houtian and Xiantian in terms of alchemical procedures, sequencing, timing, energy routes and meridians. 

 

I want to try and connect it as much as possible. My masters have no interest in the idea and I don't blame them, because when you have something that is working, you just go with it, but I feel like I have my feet in both of these ways, so I will do my best over the years to keep finding new puzzle pieces and putting together the grand picture so we  can find the subtle points of both approaches to spiritual cultivation for the benefit of all : )

 

Many people think that Shen Xian or Tian Xian level is it. Like that's it. There's nothing more after that, but that's not the case.

The Dao is infinite. So we are always always refining and Xiu Xin Yang Xing and preserving our Yuan Xing.

 

I'll give you an example:

 

Hu Fa Shen can see the future, but there is never only one future. Every given moment in the present can lead to multiply potential timelines and outcomes. So even though HFS can see what is going to happen, we as the student have the final say, because we have the power of free will. So that means we have the power to change our mind at any point and alter the future. So Hu Fa Shen can see one timeline and say, this is the most beneficial one for him, I will give him some small advice. Then because we are stubborn, we don't believe HFS, and say no, it can't be. I will do something else instead. Then after a while we realize we made the wrong decision and our life is a bit harder now. Then HFS facepalms.

 

For them it's tricky because they cannot really interfere with our life significantly. At the start they help a lot. If you slip your HFS will hold you up so you don't fall, but later as your wisdom matures, they just "watch". If you slip, they just watch to see if you will correct yourself so you don't fall down. If you do fall down, they just "watch" to see how you will pick yourself up.

 

So HFS, even though they are Yang Shen and already Shen Xian, through teaching us, also refine themselves be continuing to cultivate their Xiantian Wu Jing Shen. For example If Einstein was speaking to one of his colleagues, he could probably speak very easily at a very high level, but if you put a 10 year old in front of him, regardless of his wisdom, Einstein would be forced to find a way to communicate his wisdom to the child in a way he understands. That would help him refine his patience, his compassion, his understanding, his kindness and his flexibility.

 

So even with the Daoist Shen Xian, it is the same.

I am cultivating. My masters are cultivating. My Shifu is cultivating. My Hu Fa Shen is cultivating. Tai Shang is also cultivating : )

 

Ah ok here is what I meant to say.

By the body I mean more of the alchemy process where the essence of the spirit and body meat in the middle dantian (creating the vajra in the heart) and the golden body manifests that way for us.Now from that point we work on absorbing divine energy and the spirit world.

Now it seems that the taoist neidan approach is more of cultivation the body jing qi shen via mco breathing techniques etc and projecting the spirit body and cultivating in the spirit realm then bringing the spirit body back in and attaining the taoist gold body of light that way.

So my question would be do you spirit project out in your training and cultivate in the spirit realm directly if so do you feel that this way is a faster way of serving the earthly and heavenly realms?

Effilang and A.A.Khokhlov,

Since your both on here i wanted to ask you both on your thoughts about neidan cultivation in the spirit realm.

The buddhist approach is a more of a cultivate earth (body earth realm) first and then heaven (shen spirit realm) later while taoist  seems to be more of a cultivate earth and heaven together.

The system I train in is taoist but feels like kind of a buddhist approach in this sense it cultivates the earth realm first and then later work in the spirit world comes later.

So my question is what is your thoughts on cultivating neidan in the spirit realm and its advantages. 

How cool would it be if one day some 60 years from now, when we are all old and gray, we can come together and have a nice dinner with tea and each share and demonstrate what we have all attained on our journeys?

 

Can you imagine that spirit of brotherhood and camaraderie?

No ego. No arrogance. Just dumplings, soup, cake and hopefully a lot of "magic?"

 

Loving brothers and sisters of the same origin meeting to share in the wonder of life?

Can we do it?

 

I think I like this spirit much better than fighting with each other : )

After all, we are all just walking each other back home, hand in hand.

 

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple). 

 

We have been to many other temples and schools in China to do the same for their priests.

 

Different Schools, but they are together in one room, all Xiudao together.

Can we do it like them, or are we too special in The Dao Bums and our schools too good for one another?

 

I think we will be surprised by the result if we try it : )

 

initiation.jpg

 Yes that sounds fun. Id like that.

Yes, sadly that is the case with most schools, but the method doesn't really matter in this case.

Even in Xiao Yao Pai, there are some people that fall into your category:

 

1. Their wisdom could not expand because of the desire for power, so Hu Fa Shen does not advance them.

2. Some people just want to be called a Daoist officially, but its not something on paper, it's in the conduct, life, heart and spirit. We have these cases in our school also. They lack the drive to continue to work and transform closer to Hu Fa Shen.

3. Very common for us also. Some people just get lazy. Just because we have Hu Fa Shen doesn't mean we have an on and off switch. We must give 50% and HFS also then can give 50%, that's how it works with us also.

4. We have our political issues to deal with also, but we are a spiritual school first, so that's our priority above all things.

 

So at the end of the day. We still have no evidence of their claim and so we must consider it speculation until prove otherwise.

 

We when can get a proper account of people who are not dying in their system, but ascend to heaven instead, then we can know it for sure. Until then we are just playing with our imaginations. Emitting heat and light, the body does naturally. Someone that cultivates their Taiji energy (physical) can enhance this property, but its all still very far from physical transmutation of postnatal Qi to prenatal Qi or spiritual cultivation for that matter (which happens in Wuji). These manifestations are still only of the physical energy. When their physical body dies so will this function of it's Taiji energy. It cannot be carried over into Wuji.

Yes this has been much of my work was to make attaining the taoist body of light of primary concern and not martial power.

So in my lineage this teaching was not and is still not common knowledge it was only for the head of the sect only. While the students had lesser alchemy that could in theory lead to the body of light but was next to impossible attaining that in a normal life span. 

While the master had the more powerful vehicle for attainment.

The upper dantian has the fake light while the middle dantian has the real light. When the essence of the spirit and body have met in the middle dantian creating the vajra the body will emit light and heat but this point is a conversion process. 

If the body gets to many blockages the spontaneous natural light will stop until the blockage is removed.

Yes, but much of this is also manifested in other systems.

Going back to my question again:

 

If the people of their tradition transmute their physical matter and disappear into emptiness, what happened to the current master's master and that masters master. We they buried or did they all disappear. Surely their students were there to send them off when they personally decided it was time to go, so there must be some evidence?

Very good. Ill share a little of what I know of this. First it is very rare and hard to actually find a lineage or master that has the actual teaching to attain this harder to get a chance to learn it.

What I have seen in my own personal exp with masters that actually had the knowledge I mean the real core practice and still didnt attain it was due to a few reasons 

1. they wanted martial power primarily so that focused on that alchemy more instead.

2. They inherited the teachings and really didnt care about it but care more for the recognition for being the inheritor.

3. They had the alchemy but just never did it.

4. Or the sect had so many poltical issues that the master became mainly concerned with that.

It all looks really good, but let's not be blind believers, ok?

Let's use some logic and common sense instead. Some basic wisdom : )

 

Let's ask in our minds. OK. So they claim these results. Surely this system did not appear for the first time in this generation, right? Can we go back one generation to look at their master. Did he get buried or did he disappear into the Dao?

 

How about we go back, 2 or 3 or 4 generations to look at their master's masters, what about them?

Buried or turned into the Rainbow Body?

 

Then after we ask the question we must investigate it.

If you believe it then maybe you can call them or e-mail them to ask them about it, so we can be sure : )

No no I just do my reasearch differently I have spoken to all those men and more you have to learn or get advice from people who actually attained it.....(you will have a greater success rate that way)

Because of this I have had much success.

You see when you start to attain this your body will start to emit heat and light when you are not doin anything this relates to primordial spontaneity aka the natural state.

Infact when one starts to reach this level the middle dantian will resonate with the aaaah sound. The primordial state is stillnes when this level is reached just sitting still will cause the light and heat vibration to start.

you see thats the difference FIRST HAND EXP.

@grassmountainsage

 

I'm familiar with Lama Thunderbolt, he was quite the thing on here back in the day.

Do you believe that when Max dies he will not be buried like everyone else?

 

If he is buried or cremated (very likely), what happens to the whole theory of transforming the physical tissues.

Does he still eat, drink, breathe and excrete? How can it be if he has become a manifestation of primordial Qi?

 

Let's wait and see what happens when he dies, then we can resume the investigation

I cant speak for another man nor his final place of being.

Dematerializing and walking thru walls is something he and some of his students can do...

Which is not uncommon of hearing of practitioners mention this when they reach that level.

Very cool account of attaining rainbow body.

“I felt myself become lightweight, and felt myself covered by light. I became transparent, and saw red, white, purple and golden light, dazzling and splendid. There was a red lotus emitting bright light and I felt the energy channeling down inside of me. I was completely mesmerized in the wonderful and serene divinity of Rainbow Body. All my worries, attachment and ignorance were gone through this incredible empowerment of Rainbow Light Supreme Dharma. My wisdom blossomed, and my understanding of Buddhist teaching was elevated to a much higher level…I’m so grateful that Holy Master Ziguang Shang Shi taught us this supreme Dharama!”

http://www.guanghuanmizong.info/rainbow-body-esoteric-practice/

Then this 

A tibetan buddhist monk talking about how he attained this from the great perfection dharma of his lineage.

http://xuanfa.net/articles/i-finally-received-the-highest-buddha-dharma-the-xian-liang-great-perfection-dharma-initiation/

@grassmountain

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but I work in design and post-production and also do photography in my spare time - and can reproduce these images in around 30 minutes on my own. You just need to take two photographs: one with the person there and one without, then play with the first a little bit.

 

Here is a funny one of my hand. Maybe I can say that it's a little bit the essence of my physical body turning into Yang Shen?

 

hand.jpg

 

If the person in the photograph was projecting his Yang Shen, then there would be a physical body and next to that Yang Shen, because they are not one and the same. One is the indestructible immortal body while the other is the impermanent physical body. So it would be minimum two entities and the physical body itself would not be distorted.

 

If the person in the photograph has absorbed his physical body completely and transformed post-natal Qi into pre-natal Qi.................  .................. then he probably wouldn't be spending his time in this realm and using his energy to sustain a physical state.

 

What I mean is that the native frequency of Yang Shen naturally resides in Wuji and is manifested as Kong. To vibrate low enough to enter Taiji and fit within the 400-700 nanometer band of visible light so the eyes can catch it and lower yet so the hands of another person can feel it, and THEN to sustain that state indefinitely, would be an absolute waste of energy.

 

Someone who had such a speculative level of attainment and transmuted his physical essence into primordial Qi, would not need to eat, sleep, drink, excrete waste matter or even breathe Qi into their body (Qi as in air in this case). Do you know if the guy you spoke to had to do any of this?

 

Maybe his physical body was behind the camera taking the picture while his Yang Shen projection was the subject of the photo in front of the camera? We can speculate a lot, but where are the real accounts.

 

Here's is a picture of our Shifu performing an initiation over 20 years ago while photoshop was still in its infancy. I don't think you could even UNDO back then because RAM was so low.

 

sifu.jpg

 

You can see the camera has captured a manifestation of the projection of his spiritual energy, but can we be sure? It's just a photo : ) 

 

We must know the truth ourselves and experience it. I have and I know that immortals' physical bodies are buried just like any human. It is post-natal Jing, Qi and Shen that cannot be converted into Pre-natal Dao.

 

Post San Bao is one thing Pre San Bao is another thing and Yang Shen is also another thing which we must "create". The physical body is just a vessel and a medium for transformation. It is like the beaker in the laboratory, you can mix the chemicals inside to create something, but that something doesn't absorb the glass of the beaker. We just contribute the body back to earth and return back to nature what is left of what we have eaten, breathed and drank.

Well that is what he is saying that he has fully transformed his body into primordial qi.

His website.  primordialalchemist.com

Yes ive had many indepth conversations with him as I am the head of my lineage

Ya know there was a taoist on here a long time ago claiming that he and his students attaned this. I talked with this man for yers and exchanged notes he was a bit controversal but he had pics of what he was talking about. He called this state golden dragon body.

 

 

but later I learned I had th same type of training in my own lineage.

Hi,

 

Thanks for answering, however you left out the heart of my post, which is where I really wanted to know your thoughts:

 

Here you said:

 

 

Theoretically, I can "imagine" it, but I have yet to see any practitioner transform their physical tissues into primordial Qi to become emptiness, and if this is really a genuine part of the later processes of Neidan, then why haven't we seen it even though we have so many lineage holders alive today who follow the old way and why do so many Daoist texts teach us that post-natal Qi cannot be converted to pre-natal Qi?

 

Here is the heart of my question:

 

 

As a convenient example, your school (please correct me if I'm wrong) has been transmitting it's methods which it claims are true for over 500 years now? .

 

A human life is on average around 80 years, you must have had many students since then. Can we assume something like 50 students every 100 years as a safe example?

Then were looking at around 250 students practicing students.

 

Of all these people and I appreciate its a rough figure (im speculating just to vaguely illustrate my point) - Is there any evidence of anyone actually transforming their body into spiritual energy and disappearing from the face of the earth or is it that everyone of the students and masters was buried or cremated like a normal person?

 

I am not implying that they were just any typical person, I am sure that their practice achieved them results beyond what most people outside of the xianshu were likely to achieve, but never the less, spiritual cultivation is a gradual process in almost every area. Nothing really ever just suddenly manifests. Usually, there is a process before hand that builds up or leads to a manifestation. My point is that If what you're saying is true, then I wouldn't expect people to suddenly disappear, but at the same time I would expect that at least there would be a gradual transition of the physical tissues from visible to invisible and during that time their practicing brothers and sisters of the Dao would be able to observe that.

 

Wuliu Pai is not the only Daoist school that believes this idea, yet all the masters we know of that we can see and feel and that are alive or at least have records of their lives were all buried and cremated.

 

How is it so? This is the discrepancy I was speaking of, and as a practitioner of one such school who believes in this form of transformation I want to know what you think about it.

 

I personally do not know any immortal that was not buried or one that managed to transform impermanent energy of Taiji into the divine energy of the Dao. Isn't this the basis of differentiation between Post-Natal energy cultivation and Pre-Natal energy cultivation, so that people do not mislead themselves by trying to convert the body into the spirit?

 

If we can convert physical energy from Taiji into spiritual energy that can exist in Wuji, couldn't we assume that scientists would one day invent a method to achieve immortality by the use of technology or even some method to open the Xuan Guan?

 

So again I'm wondering, how is it that the physical energy is converted into spiritual energy, when one is post celestial and the other is pre-celestial?

 

Those are my questions : )

Ya know there was a taoist on here a long time ago claiming that he and his students attaned this. I talked with this man for yers and exchanged notes he was a bit controversal but he had pics of what he was talking about. He called this state golden dragon body.

A.A.Khokhlov,

Helllo, 

I got some questions...

1. What is history of wu Liu Pai?

2. Who is the head of the sect?

3. What are some of the names of the practices your sect teaches?

4. Do you accept Bai Shee?

5. Do you have anyone in  the lineage that has attained actual immortality?

6. What is the sect's view on rainbow body?

.7 Does the sect teach other things outside of alchemy like healing ex acupuncture? 

These are some starting questions for now thank you in advance.

She is authentic she mentioned the lotus opening in the middle dantian.......she is authentic.

Id urge all to listen to her.

The User Awaken.

The thing with Xiao Yao Pai's alchemy is that I dont see alot of chiflow from the spontaneous method.

In all the spontaneous movement qigong that Ive seen there was a core method that helped it like kunlun or shaolin wahnam.

It seems like there might be a prep method missing before working with the Hu Fa Shen.

When it comes to proof is there a video of a Xiao Yao Pai master moving a cup with their chi or something?

Very few understand the op of what it means or some of this history. This was not against Lu DongBin but helps validate him.

this is literally how the golden dragon teachings got into the dragon gate sect the monks name is golden dragon he founded the golden dragon branch in buddhism that later died out but continued with Lu's line.

Very few understand.

Monk Huang Long Huinan was real http://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/HuanglongHuinan.html

HUANGLONG HUINAN (1002–69) was a disciple of Shishuang Chuyuan. He came from Xinzhou (located east of the modern city of Nanchang in Jiangxi Province). He founded the Huanglong branch of Linji Zen

Kong Ming,

There is a very real connection with Taoism Buddhism and Judaism

Your line of questioning and thinking is right.

. 

2. Do you believe the 仙 (xian) or immortals or perhaps the gods of Daoism can be seen as the equivalent to angels, if not in a Western Christian sense perhaps in a more general or Zoroastrian sense? To quote Henry Corbin regarding Ismaili esotericism:

 

 

In other words, man is to become an "angel", much in the same way the goal of Daoism is to achieve the golden elixir, become an immortal, and unite with the Dao.

 

In short, how should one think of angels in relation to Daoism?

Your on to something keep going.