quantumdragon

 

It sounds that Opendao is great Neidan master. And your above statement is fascinating.

 

It would be great to hear your philosophy and methods regarding how did you make such conclusion. 

1. Is it from your pre-heaven expression or post-heaven studies?  
2. Do you have any evidence and references about your statement?  
3. What kind of Neidan classics and scriptures have you studied so far?
4. Which level of Neidan cultivation you have completed?  
5. Can you share some of your Neidan cultivation experience?  
6. Have you experienced the spiritual Pivot within?
7. Have you seen the flight of golden sparks?  
8. Do you know that some individuals have experiential understanding and realization about Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original through Qigong practice?  

Xuanming I would like to offer an energetic assessment of Opendao. He has made many claims about his training. I cannot verify the authenticity of the Linage that instruct him or better his relationship with and his understanding of  the Great Patriarch's Teachings. As alway I must speak from my person experience. Yesterday after my post from the female perspective Opendao takes the  inappropriate out of harmony liberty of attempting to come to my home in this world and penetrate my  energetic/physical body to check out this  secret I discussed.  I felt his intention was from a unrefined reproductive energy which  means to me  that no  Opendao has not begun the  beginning steps of firing , purifying or bathing.  He is operating from conditioning at an extremely primitive instinctual level. I intend no disrespect to Opendao. I make the assumption since he came to me he wanted my assistance and  put himself  in full view of my other sight beyond the  human eyes.  What I saw was very interesting. 

First I thought his choice of entrance into my home was odd. Why would a spirit being come in through the toilet plumbing?  Why not just  click on me  show sefl to my mind screen and ask for a talk? Toilet very poor choice of coming into house for a spirit ,  this show much about how opendao does not understand the difference between what is waste and what is pure.

The next  thing I observed was the color of Opendao's energy body. It has many black holes, it is  grey to dark grey with no white at all or any other colors. This tells me  he has not activated any of his organ systems at all. These organ system when activated by flying sparks have regular  predictable mandela's or signatures in color. No authentic flying sparks practice  has been accomplished  by Opendao.  The next thing I noticed was  no shape at all to the energy body more like  an ill formed head with a blob attached. So sad no eyes, nose mouth. or any other body part. So no opendao has not even started any work at all with authentic qi. No tripods, no clay oven, no Heart of Heaven no real energetic anatomy at all.  I have not seen this form before so I can only guess this is a Yin Ghost with no exposure to the Yang light, no quickening has taken place, no birth of  the companion just undifferentiated Ghost.  From his appearance only post heaven is ruling his body. He  has attained  small amounts of power , little black magic spells with the intent of exercising power but these are not authentic / prenatal energies. The Original Authentic Self has no need for parlor tricks.

no, it's not unique. All traditional Neidan schools have it. I'm speaking about yuan jing of course. Sexual jing, postheaven jing, is not used in Longmen as well.

 

 

sure. But they know as well that such Jing has to be Xiantian (preheaven).

 

 

That's all Qigong that has no relation to Neidan of any traditional school.

 

 

no, it doesn't, such things affect xin-mind only.

 

 

no, such way nor spirituality, nor immortality cannot be achieved, or all people would become immortals through the natural "postnatal transformation".

 

 

Everything is good with the "spirit of Ma Dan Yang", real one and not some fantasy one, as well as with the results people get in Yuxianpai school. So better focus on yourself and ask yourself why you don't understand basic things I'm talking about. 

The  blueprint or matrix to all that has been written is available by means not described on this page.  Do we all agree our  Organs contain all the physical DNA and spiritual DNA ( so to speak)  we need as humans to  "Complete" ourselves?  The extraordinary  Yin Organ of the female which no male possesses,  knows how to harmonise with the Dao, she knows by her innate nature how  to create a body for the Original Spirit. She houses the Original Spirit in its prenatal state while the body is  naturally constructed. Inside the curious organ of the female reproductive system is  always the prenatal energies/intelligence/ information. Do you believe is is difficult to reverse engineer the path from body to spirit and back to the Tao  by  entering  the Mind of this organ , in essence penetrating oneself by  surrendering to what is  already right there inside of  we women?  I am not saying we women  do not have our work to do to purify, polish, fire, bath etc. I am not boasting here either. I am saying what has not been said  out loud in a very long time. Something that needs to have a voice in all of this technique, and science. Look at the images of sages with distended abdomens mimicking pregnancy.  What  do those images tell you? 

Oh, and opendao please before you come  tubing into my living room again seeking this secret please  amplify your "DE" of respect and honor, general manners of  this world.  You were gently escorted out this time. If you need further instructions on who you will meet next time please see Riding the Phoenix to Pengali , page 46, line 6 of the poem. 

 

Thank you for sharing your understanding on internal elixir cultivation and for introducing the teaching from Yu Xian Pai practice.  

 

The founder of Yu Xian Pai school is Ma Dan-Yang who directly received transmission and blessing from his teacher, Wang Chong-Yang.  He was also the Dragon Gate founder, Qiu Chu-Ji’s mentor.  Transforming the Jing essence to primordial Qi for nourishing the shen, is the unique practice of the complete reality school. 

 

If you do not know how to transform the Jing essence to primordial Qi, your pre-heaven Jing can easily become postnatal Jing and leak out. 

 

Lao Zi, Lü Chun-Yang, Wang Chong-Yang, Ma Dan-Yang, Sun Bu-Er, all know how to transform the Jing essence to primordial Qi for nourishing the shen. 

 

In my view, the complete reality school teaches the main following training:

1. Cultivate the body--with authentic Qi cultivation to increase the awareness level of the internal body for internal healing and transformation, including reversing the internal energy flow from outward to inward, stop leaking original Jing and primordial Qi; heal health conditions, and transform unhealthy behavior such as sexual addition, or substance addiction, etc. This involves the first two steps of internal cultivation a)炼精化炁 (transforming the postnatal jing essence to prenatal or primordial qi), 炼炁养神 (refining prenatal qi to nourish the mind);
2. Cultivating the mind--with peaceful mind meditation and quiet sitting to transform the conscious mind and ego to serve the growth and development of the primal spirit; this is the third step c) 炼神化虚 (refining the mind to the primal spirit--shen);
3. The primal spirit-authentic self returns to oneness with the Tao, obtains spiritual freedom, returns to the true home of heaven and achieves spiritual immortality.  This is the fourth step d) 炼虚合道 (refining the primal spirit to accordance with the Tao.

Thank you so much for this brilliant outline. I have been pondering how to write about my practice answering with words used on this forum. I did not experience the transformations in a linear fashion. My training followed a scientific set standard  of formulary practice but my experience early on began weaving elements of the steps much more like how art creates itself all at once. Then the artist subtracts , adds etc so the  art  may live. An example of this  would be the elusive Golden Flower. As soon as I heard that phrase I WANTED THAT RIGHT NOW!  So we see my reproductive system in  postnatal consciousness conditioned by Western commercialism decided this was something to go get and possess this  blinded me to what it actually was.  Ironically in retrospect , I do not even remember why I wanted this Golden Flower( concept) other than everyone else seemed to desire it why  shouldn't I have this too. Then I became  more  focused in practicing, I learned to  suspend thinking, withdraw my energy from external  projections, I released a need to know or label my experiences. With the  help of my teachers I learned to harvest my ego ( it is still around ) for fueling firings. I do not know where I am in this process for me it is both somewhat linear and outside of time simultaneously.Where is  quantum dragon on the map of evolutionary consciousness......I cannot say. I am at the beginning still recalling the mind and also flying/ riding. I use the term riding to describe how my practice has changed recently where I suspend my conscious mind, ener deep into the Xuan state and the Void where my original spirit practices my body. It feels like riding or flying in that  there in that place I cannot point out on a map is  the energetic scaffolding just right for me, in this body at this time and  in the no-time. I release the need to control or possess anything at all and without effort my body rides/floats or  flies according to  the  wisdom that is mind but not my conscious mind. My conscious mind's job is to observe the wonder of this extraordinary limitless wisdom and  later , if necessary, put together some words to impart the concept of the experience. 

The   joke / trick  played on my conscious mind/ postnatal ego conditioned state was from my very first practice the Golden Flower was there showing itself in many different ways. Much  like  hide and seek with a child it playfully taught me to learn  how to learn to surrender to the unborn mother of all. 

Is the consensus then, ( from  Pengali page 5 and 6) we have made our way out the the " belly" of this particular  whale? Now  we can move onto a discussion of Pg. 55 Fire. How to regulate, with persevering perception of the ancestral knowing,  the spiritual pivot? Is this what you  had in mind Stone to Jade?  Anyone have ideas? I am new to this type of language as you might see from my previous posts. 

The reason I joined Dao Bums was to have conversation with other practitioners about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai.  If you haven't read it, please get a copy from http://yirenpress.com/ for $19.95.  Jill Gonet translates the poems masterfully, and provides extremely useful commentary and suggestions (for females and males) from her own authentic, thorough, ongoing experience. 

 

There is a lot of interference getting back to Penglai from now (page 6 and interested people have already given up on this thread). Any suggestions about how to get back to topic? Do we need to begin fresh with a newly titled topic? Should there be some kind of password in order to make a comment? For example, "The third word on page 55 is..."

Is the consensus then, ( from  Pengali page 5 and 6) we have made our way out the the " belly" of this particular  whale? Now  we can move onto a discussion of Pg. 55 Fire. How to regulate, with persevering perception of the ancestral knowing,  the spiritual pivot? Is this what you  had in mind Stone to Jade?

Hi Jade

I think there is a way  to start a new thread and make it private. I am not sure how. I have noticed many threads are private. The person starting the thread has to gibe permission for  the other  posters to be allowed to post. I am in favor of this though I am not so good at  translating  Ms. Gonets fantastic work into anything other than my experience in  practice.  I am game. Let see if we can  figure out how to do this. 

Here are the rule to have owner controls on a forum thread http://thedaobums.com/topic/37997-how-to-request-owner-permissions/

I too would appreciate a conversation about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai.  It was one of the best

books I have ever read.  Ms Gonet's book is a masterpiece.

Let us  start over  with our own conversation. Those of us who have read the book just start with your  topic.  Maybe  that would provide an interesting contrast to wild speculation etc. There are many reading this  thread that have not posted. I think the  Troll has been silenced by Xuanming and others. If not it is easy enough to ingnore his posts.  As "junior bums" we cannot start a forum topic and have owner controls for six months and or 200 posts. Anyone game for starting fresh here?

The reason I joined Dao Bums was to have conversation with other practitioners about Riding the Phoenix to Penglai.  If you haven't read it, please get a copy from http://yirenpress.com/ for $19.95.  Jill Gonet translates the poems masterfully, and provides extremely useful commentary and suggestions (for females and males) from her own authentic, thorough, ongoing experience. 

 

There is a lot of interference getting back to Penglai from now (page 6 and interested people have already given up on this thread). Any suggestions about how to get back to topic? Do we need to begin fresh with a newly titled topic? Should there be some kind of password in order to make a comment? For example, "The third word on page 55 is..."

Hi Jade

I think there is a way  to start a new thread and make it private. I am not sure how. I have noticed many threads are private. The person starting the thread has to gibe permission for  the other  posters to be allowed to post. I am in favor of this though I am not so good at  translating  Ms. Gonets fantastic work into anything other than my experience in  practice.  I am game. Let see if we can  figure out how to do this. 

Hi Hobo,Hey I missed the banter this weekend. It is fun watching you  play the villain. Both  you and I know that is not all of who you are.  I feel you are perhaps aware many of  us posting on this  forum thread are aware of your methodology, I have seen this method  deployed in class many times.   The olden days term is  " stealing" qi. I have noticed you are  smart enough to not try to  steal qi from  Master Xuanming. If  Xuanming is anything like the authentic teachers I know that would be a great  disaster for you... but you already know that.  What you do  not know is when you attempt to energetically merge with some posters on this forum practitioners/ students/ teachers of more advanced training they are  gifted a full reading of your energetic anatomy.  I now know what happened to you when you were very young involving a older man that has created this monster of an adaptive complex. I know you understand Jungian terminology.You have enter the first stage of the Magnum Opus but you are stuck there. The frozen mid day Sun blackening the earth : the   the first Nigerdo- Yang earth  with the added quality of drought and an endless  heat of  the sun or Apollo's eye( the  intellectual mind) frozen by trauma , engulfed by the unconscious to the degree the individual is trapped in the prison or the Lion's mouth . I have modified a quote to from a western alchemist to fit my amature reading of what I experienced in your presence when you came in for a "taste " of quantum dragon.

"The  Black Sun denotes a very harsh and

negative fate; a period when  post natal consciousness must be diminished so that the prenatal 
consciousness has a chance to intervene and make itself felt. The latter
happens when the conscious position is dead and needs external intervention  by the addition
of new material and affect from a deeper layer. This is usually felt as a
depression or experienced in a disease or bodily issue of some kind.
Consciousness can be so diminished that it becomes a dangerous time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigredo

I feel  you may have been written off as a trifling  parasite by most of the  advanced practitioners on the  forum post. 

.  

 

It is so exciting to see that Taoist Texts began to have self-awareness about himself and found a nice quote to express his self-evaluation. It is also good to hear that Taoist Texts wants to break through the gate of speculation and guesswork, reject commonplace boastful talents and machinations, and seek and visit a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him.

 

It is very significant for Taoist Texts to be aware of how he uses his own false cleverness, and enters into wild arguments and guesswork, to fool himself. For example: 

 

 

 

 

This post shows a) Taoist Texts has an inflated big fat ego with disrespect—Have not read this exact book yet, don’t know the book content yet, but assume knows better than the book author; and read the original, but does not understand the meaning of the original, so provided false cleverness, entered into wild arguments and guesswork, and used false information to criticize the book author’s exceptional work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above Taoist Texts’ translation and commentary of the Poem “Bathing” demonstrated his language talent and skills and showed his experience and understanding of Dao cultivation—no experience and does not understand the meaning of the poem at all.  Even though he has no internal cultivation experience and does not understand the meaning of the poem, he pretends that he knows better than people who have rich experience of internal cultivation with internal realization. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Opendao had a simple and brilliant question about the second line of Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem “The Secret of Freedom,” as shown in the above.  Taoist Texts’ response to Opendao’s question showed that Taoist Texts did not know the meaning of the second line of the poem at all. He was not able to answer Opendao’s question, but still pretends that he knows better than Opendao who has actual Daoist practice experience. 

 

Above posts have shown that Taoist Texts is not a truehearted student of the Dao and not a Taoist practitioner.  Now he expresses his desire to seek a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far, it seems that no enlightened teacher or skilled teacher wants to teach Taoist Texts, due to his false cleverness, disrespectful character and arrogant nature without De-virtues.  This leads him to believe that no live teachers will teach the secrets to him.  Taoist Texts might be right about this—his experience has shown that Taoist Texts has no Yuanfen with the Dao. 

 

Now Taoist Texts expresses his desire to seek a true teacher who will clearly explain the secrets to him.  I hope that it is not too late for him to find a true live teacher who may explain the secrets to him.

Xuanming,

Thank you so much for your precious time teaching all of us on this forum. I thought at first you were a great master, that has been doubly confirmed by my experience reading the summary you posted. I did not know a living true teacher could emanate transmission through their writings on a website. I would like to share my experience of your teaching through this method of transmission.   This morning before my practice I read all of the tread of this post on Riding the Phoenix to Pengali. This time I read from Receptivity instead of being immersed in the activity of thinking and posting from my passive reactive body memories. As I read your words I saw the Mastery  you  embody the pure gift of  bringing coherence to all participating in this discussion. My passive reactive state was feeling  kind of sorry for  Taoist Text because he  cannot  soften himself to  Receive what is Authentic. Then the question came  to my mind, quantum dragon  what if  YOU are projecting your  own weakness in your cultivation on to Taoist Texts? Instantly the defensive passive  reactive part of me said no , no way am I like  that. Then I read Xuanming's writings. I felt all sorts of energy activations being to  occur in my body. I quickly went to  where I practice and began a circulation my  Teacher Taught us this weekend. Suddenly rising up into my mind screen like a list I saw  myself in movie after movie  acting from arrogance , pride , disrespect, laziness and much more. I came back after practice so happy Xuanming is here with us on this web forum. I cannot express my gratitude for the blessing  of being able to do this work. It  never cease  to be an astounding miracle to me that  I am allowed access to this work. Really what is the likelihood of a western woman being shown  the Way by her own teacher AND someone who is a true Master on a web forum?!!?  After practice I did not close down and seal my practice so I could absorb whatever I could from  Xaunmings transmission. I finished reading then as often happens I needed to sleep for a few hours to  gain access to another level of the teachings. Again I reiterate I am so profoundly grateful for  those who teach us where ever we find them. Thank You Hobo for embodying the corruption of Virtue with such  clarity it is impossible not  to question one's self to see where this type of obstruction is keeping me from  the truth of my intention. I have seen how I deceive myself with clever stories about trauma in my life that changed my body chemistry to attract even more of the same type of  behavior and my same reaction to  the phenomenon. I have been gifted the great treasure of authentic teaching. Now the joyous work begins. It is harvest time in my internal garden. Time to look at the fruits of my practice, the results in my life and  harmonise with ruthless compassion composting, transforming and changing my destiny from arrogant, cunning victim justifying poor quality of life to  receptive humble student of the Tao working with greater  skill and precision making  a quantum change.  Xuanming  who ever you are your time spent here will not be wasted by me.Your transmission  has giving me a  laudry list of  practices to do , attitudes to adjust and much more.  THANK YOU GREAT TEACHER!   

Well our good friend Walker apparently disapproves of google translate so he warns you in Chinese that it may lead you down the wrong path

 

走弯路

 - 走弯路 to take an indirect route 以上来源于: Dict.cn [ 展开《新汉英大辞典》 ] 走弯路 [zǒu wān lù] take a wrong path; follow a zigzag course; travel a .

 

Why in chinese? because he can, thats why.

 

Further along is his signature

 

 

taken from a rather lengthy poem by this portly gentleman on the left

 

 

道在苦修妙在传，须拜明师点玄关，

 

Practicing Dao is in bitter austerities, obtaining its magic is from the transmission,

You must bow to an enlightened teacher for a hint of the Dark Gates.

I cannot translate this from chinese but how I have experienced this is would   I spin  the two sentences this way.

Practicing the Dao entails Heart ( Mind/ the taste of bitter in TCM is good for the Heart) strengthening sacrifice ( Small Intestine  Virtue of ego sacrifice to nourish the community of  the organ systems of the body), receive the  awakening   training from humbling yourself before enlightened Teacher to awaken the unconscious gates. 

My guess is that Walker finds this stanza inspiring for some reason.

 

 

Moving on, our good friend Xuanming, not to be outdone, quotes this

 

first two lines is a proverb

 

师父领进门， 修行在个人

[shī fu lǐng jìn mén xiū xíng zài gè rén]

The master teaches the trade, but the perfection of the apprentice's skill depends on his own efforts.；

 

The last two

道在苦修与妙悟 Obtaining Dao is in bitter training and marvelous realization,

莫入迷津走弯路 (if so) you will not enter the Ford of Confusion, and roundabout pathways.

Obtaining the Doa is by Heart ( Heart of Heaven/ Conscious MInd ) harmonization (Pancreas) and marvelous realizations.

​By surrendering to the  Heavenly Will you will not cross shallow into   confusion or be lead by your emotions. 

 

 

and? whats that all about?

It is a good guess  what ever eh? 

I like secrets!

 

 

Me too Hobo. Let us hope Xuanming enlightens us. : )

My sense is my Teacher has  transmitted this mystery to me but I have not been able to make it  conscious .  I still have many more practices to do  before I reach this level of master where the Jade purity has a stable home for the mysterious secret. Not knowing something yet being aware something I have not  experienced  good for a student, it keeps my ego getting to big the  creating obstacles. to actually decode this poem I would have to know the exact circulations with mudras alluded to and  then  practice circulations. Ironically I have  more than have the  practice forms in my material from Golden Flower class my deep lacking is how to  take  these symbols and find which practices.  I may have to get back to this research next week. I am in  a class this weekend designed to cleanse then strengthen certain organ systems. These  classes are very intense.  by the way I wanted to let you know in our school we do not practice  external martial arts.  Ours is for healing and upgrading to Virtues with great health and vitality.

Hi 

Thats amazing, I am awed and touched. Whatever you are doing is so much more beautiful than the worrysome mundane existence of the commoners.

Thank you for your support of my practices. It is easier for me to talk about my actual experiences rather than try to learn a new  symbolic language overnight and be articulate in  using it. .  I am honor by  you high opinion. That was a year ago. I have not felt the golden being as strongly or the same since. Now it is  more like the practice I first wrote to you  about.  I am in awe of your  brilliant mind. I wish I could translate poetry. The mundane part of my existence is writing.you see I am so severly dyslexic it takes hours for me to write a small amount.  Hey I read this exchange about you and I translating the  poem what does it say?  I tried  google translate is said something about detours????

Quote

明師苦心领进门

弟子修行在个人

道在苦修与妙悟

莫入迷津走弯路

I am with you Hobo. I feel like I am dead ending on this. Actually I never really got off the  ground on this poem. I understand the circulations described reversing the flow from postnatal to prenatal. The times of the living baby in a day, year and  hours cycle.  I  use the  secret gate as a platform with another secret cauldron for firing under  the  Pengali Platform.  I also feel there is a great deal to be said about the  East and in the woman the  Curious organ of the Uterus. You know how a man needs to make an energetic  womb like structure to birth the Original Spirit. .I am  clocked out on the mystery of the last two lines. .  

 

Yes it is correct with one IMHO difference: it is a very precise verbiage. May be an inpatient reader may feel it to be general or vague because he or she did not take time to find out the precise definition of each word.

 

 

I have not taken the time to find out the  precise definition of each word. I find it challenging to try and extrapolate meaning fro other peoples translations. With each translation is  the human  being who  wrote it emotional body, if feel this when I read or hear others words.  But then again  with out  other people translating how could I read any of it! I am so fortunate to have enough gifted multilingual people in my life to help this English speaking American out.   

What I posted earlier today about  what the mystery was was not my best work. I am better with relating a story of how I first encountered my Original Spirit. 

I decided to live my practice. I wanted to  create the extreme polarity of stillness. So I began  by doing Bigu for 30 days  the practicing  Golden Flower exercises and  beefing up Stomach /Pancreas & Lung Large Intestine. I waited for the  Harvest Moon. Then I  closed off my home into only a very small space like a cave. I turned off my phone , shut the drapes to make it dark and began what turned out to be two months of  seclusion. I changed my practice from an active standing to either seated or lying down. I barely moved during those  very long  two months. I did not expect what occurred. The Yin stuff came so overwhelmingly at first then later in waves. During this time I learned to sort out what was what in a way I never had before. I took out a box of pictures of my whole family and all of my friends. I  sat with each one until I could recognized their energy patterns and my own reactions in relationship  to them. I did check my phone and email every few days. After  a few weeks I did not  really need to because I could feel  the signature of who was calling and  what their emotional state was. I continued to do the circulations from the Golden Flower class sitting or lying down which is much harder at first without the legs , arm and mudras but then after a time the energy  get stronger. Here is the interesting thing  that happened when I remove external stimulation. My  little cave became a magnified mirror of my internal life. When the first wave of Yin phenomenon subsided the next began. This part was curious  I was examining  deeper levels of  my unconscious, my genetic linage. For this I had to rely one my internal vision and sometimes google to look up historical information to confirm the time I was experiencing. After several week of  not really knowing the time, sleeping  when ever not on a schedule during a nap I realized something was inside of me , part of me but  distinctly separate .  It, I use the neutral  pronoun on  purpose,  was watching me behind my eyes looking  through my eyes and beyond my eyes. I looked  back at it and realized this is my Original Spirit. This was so fascinating to  relax and allow this intelligence operate my  body and  use my will to align with this marvelous Self. What  did it look like at that stage you ask? It looked much like the  translucent woman of my vision I wrote of  yesterday only golden colored. This was particularly interesting for me as I have seen this in flashes  when looking at  some of my  more advanced fellow students. For weeks I could see this getting stronger and stronger. Soon  this being was  practicing  my body, showing me  all sorts of  techniques I had read about  or done once in a class. It lead  me to  tame  my need to  seek with vehemence anything at all. For those  two months I live as a servant of something greater than but intrinsically a part of  my human self.  I really did not want to  end the fasting and seclusion. All thing have their season. The  end of  this sacred time was fast approaching.

Believe on my schedule to end this womb/cave stillness time was a presentation in front of a crowd! What a way to come back and test if  the flower has been stabilized!   The answer to that my friend is yes and a rather large NO. Good night Hobo. 

Yes it is correct with one IMHO difference: it is a very precise verbiage. May be an inpatient reader may feel it to be general or vague because he or she did not take time to find out the precise definition of each word.

 

 

may be in his method it is not required who knows?

 

 

well, some of them do offer that:

 

6. Signs of Verification of Turning Around the Light

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this link . It was very interesting read. That  site will be a great aid for me in learning the langue associated with Golden Flower Cultivation. I know this is one of  the obstacles for me personally not knowing what  the  symbols mean or understanding  the culture from which  this language was born. I have been avoiding labeling my experiences because when I am in class we do  a wonderful set of practices where I have amazing new sensations, upgrades  and realizations and then... everyone wants to talk about it. The more they talk and intellectualize the the wondrous manifestations the further away the real thing  just  created gets. I can literally feel  the energy body of the class shift down into ...what a linear diagram? I am content  to view the experience as a whole. In fact sometimes the words look like  a hail storm tearing freshly bloomed flower  petals to shreds. I can relate to what was said about other  peoples voices sounding like echos in the distance. Sometimes after a  class practice when all the talking starts I stay in the experience then I cannot hear them or see them I am encased in a bubble of golden light I can see my body present in the room, I observe there are lips moving with voices coming out but I  am elsewhere, just a step away,  in the  lusciousness suckling  nourishment of  the eternal unborn. My practice is living with the sword of words without losing my center. Again  my gratitude to you Hobo, you are teaching me how to hang in there with brilliant intellectual minds and  remain  authentic.

 

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower.  They all are very helpful.

 

The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom

 

Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit.

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

 

The first line was talking about the source of the secret.  Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity.

 

Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴

 

 

 

Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. 

 

The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时).  四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). 

 

As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line.  Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28)

 

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

 

The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 

 

天上游歸食坤德；

Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao.  Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development.

 

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao:  realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai.

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

Thank you Xuanming your stabilizing energy is so welcome here. You have given us some clues. 1. The Receptive

 

Thank you for your efforts and your excellent translation and for sharing the version of translation from the Secret of Golden Flower.  They all are very helpful.

 

The title of this poem is the Secret of Freedom

 

Here, the freedom Master Lü Dongbin refers to the freedom of the spirit.

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

 

The first line was talking about the source of the secret.  Master Lü shared that the secret method was told by the Jade Purity.

 

Regarding the second line: 四字凝神入气穴

 

 

 

Oendao made a good point regarding the second line. 

 

The secret practice is to congeal the mind into the true aperture (or lair) at midnight 1-3 am (or at living baby time (活子时).  四(four)字(character) at here refers to time (1-3am or living baby time). 

 

As quantumdragon pointed out: you may find Sun Bu-Er’s first peom-Recalling the mind is very helpful to understand this second line.  Riding the Phoenix to Penglai (page 14, 28)

 

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

 

The third, four and fifth lings are expressions of internal experience from internal cultivation. 

 

天上游歸食坤德；

Sixth line is advice for people who are living on the earth to establish virtues in accordance with the Dao.  Because the virtues are the essence and nutrients for spiritual growth and development.

 

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

The last two lines in this poem are expressions of the outcomes from the internal cultivation and living in accordance with the Dao:  realized the authentic self and found the true spiritual home. You may find that the Riding the Phoenix to Penglai is a brilliant expression of Sun Bu-Er, who found her true home, Penglai.

 

Taoist Texts translates 玄中玄as “a darkness in mystery” and Richard Wilhelm translates 玄中玄 as “still deeper secret of the secret.”  Both translations sound great literally.

 

But, I don’t think that these translations reflect the meaning of Master Lü Dongbin’s expression adequately.  Are there any comments, input and suggestions? 

I feel from my practices the secret is the circulation of the light is threaded through Pengali. It has to be for the  prenatal spirit to have a home. There is a secret Lair between the Pancreas and Stomach that contains the wisdom of the ancestors. But before the  circulations of an advanced practice like  The Secret of the  Golden  Flower , one must learn to recall the mind to  this area of the body. So that  the  thieves of energy may be purified by the Virtues of the Receptive. I remember in one of my  first classes   my teacher ask ; Where is your mind?' I  raised my hand and said proudly,   it is everywhere. And I was correct. I  spent most of my energy focused  outside my body, the  "thieves" where leading my energy. I was leaking vital  life force by  the gallons so to speak. Then my teacher explained how to recall the mind, for health and vitality.  

So the Secret begins with  having a peaceful mind where I am not looking outwardly but I am  magnetically drawing my attention to my inner life.  I suppose that is  why  the  advanced practice is called Internal Alchemy not External Alchemy. One of the first steps in my training was practicing enough to have a quiet mind for realizing consciously  where my attention is, what leads my energy, how  to  stop the leaks and transform the negative emotions, attachments etc into compost for a rich  soil to plant the seeds of my intentions. . . How can a seed be planted  if  so much is in the way, concepts, other people's thoughts, my cultures indoctrination my ancestors opinions. The  soil/ earth inside my body needed to be  cleaned up  and nourished in the  Virtues of  the Receptive, , amended with  the right compost, microorganisms need to proliferate etc.  I am continuing to work on this everyday. 

Well luckily the symbolism of the hexgs in the poem has been explained already by the author of the poem.

 

This poem is a part of this text

 

The Secret of the Golden Flower (Chinese: 太乙金華宗旨; pinyin: Tàiyǐ Jīnhuá Zōngzhǐ) is a Chinese Taoist classic about neidan (inner alchemy) meditation.

 

 

with a passage following the poem, that kinda-sorta tells what the poem should mean. Somebody at this link  tried to translate it adding the hexgs to the text for clarity;)

 

 

1. Master Lu-tsu said:

 

Taoist immortals have left behind a secret spell for freedom.

Through four (Chinese) characters the spirit crystallizes in the original cavity.

In the sixth month white snow is suddenly seen to fly.

At the third watch the sun’s disk is radiant.

In water blows the wind of Xun (Wind) ☴.

Traveling in Heaven, one returns to Earth

and absorbs the virtue of Kun (Earth)☷.

And the still deeper secret of the secret:

The land that is nowhere, that is the true home.

2. The poem above expresses all the mysteries. The essence of the Great Way are the words action through non-action . Only non-action prevents a man from becoming entangled in forms and images. Only action through non-action prevents a man from sinking into indifferent emptiness and dead nothingness. The work of action through non-action is just focusing around the center; the essential mechanism of action through non-action is in the two eyes. The two eyes are like the handle of the big dipper, which manages creation and operates yin and yang.    

3. From beginning to end, the great medicine depends on one thing: the metal in the midst of the water, that is, the lead in the water-region. Before, we spoke of the turning the light around, indicating thereby the initial mechanism to control the inside from outside. This is to aid one in obtaining the Master. It is for pupils in the beginning stages. They go through the two lower transitions in order to gain the upper one. Now as things gradually become clear and one becomes familiar with the mechanism, Heaven no longer withholds the Way, but reveals the ultimate truth. Disciples, cherish it, cherish it. More effort, more effort!

I really appreciate this authors efforts to decode the meaning of the Secret of the Golden  Flower. So what I am understanding is there is somewhat of a general verbiage used to describe Internal Alchemy Practices? Is that correct?

This author does not address the lesser Kan and Li circulation that is  required foundational work  prior to the Greater  Circulation of Kan and Li.  All these people are  just using the same terminology with offering any evidence of their personal experience.  What I am seeing in all this writing is a lack of understanding of what the secret is. Big clue from Xuanming Bold Highlighting the RECEPTIVE in the poem. I have a question. What is the  Heart of Heaven? Where is it located and what is its function in the activation of the  energetic Anatomy of the  Human body? What element governs the Heart of Heaven. What location the Heart of Heaven in the Post Natal  anatomy of the energetic body?  In the circulation of the light in the  Golden Flower practice, what  roll does the violet lady play ? How does the violet lady affect the prenatal or unborn original spirit in the  Golden Flower Practice? 

 

The author makes two hexagram allusions

 

first the wind is characterized as 巽

 

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

 

 

then the bounty is attributed to 坤 64

 

 

 

A gentle (SUN) breeze will blow, from within the sea,

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible (KUN) bounty.

 

Here is how the  Great  Unborn  Mother, The Jade purity speaks to me in everyday life through the  Yijing Plum Flower Method.  I was thinking about the poem you were going to translate. I was feeling nervous because I do not have words like you so  brilliant and intelligent.  I was hearing in my mind the Receptive over and over. So I had gone away from Virtue/ Authenticity and  let myself be swept away by one of the Big Bandito's of the Stomach / Pancreas..Worry. I do not know how to interpret Yijing yet so I emailed my  teacher and  she  send me this interpretation of my synchronistic experience.  I was wondering if I would be able to contribute anything of value on the doa bums forum  while getting my down comforters ready for fall pulling them out of the dryer when a wind came up from the window due west it blew form a hexagram wind over lake # 61http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#61  

feathers that looked like snow falling leaving a trail  to the north the door of my home. Funny it looks like a trail of snow from the washing area in the west to my front door that sounds a great blessing, feathers wind went your  to  your north door, form a hexagram wind over water, #59 http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#59  

This

morning I read  a  doa bums  brilliant forum members Translation of a  the Poem. Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? translated by  T. Cleary posted  by another  forum member , simultaneously at around 6 AM a huge Gaggle of  Geese in formation  flew directly over the center of my home heading south.  Again, you received a hexagram wind over water, #59 http://www.akirarabelais.com/i/i.html#59 with 3rd line change.   Please read the Judgement of two hexagrams and change line of the #59.  the universal messages look very good.  

I share this with you  Hobo because it is about you  to.  Hexagram  64 reminded me of this :

Tao Teh Ching 26

Every being in the universe

is an expression of the Tao.

It springs into existence,

pure, perfect, free,

takes on a physical body,

lets circumstances complete it.

That is why every being

spontaneously honors the Tao.

 

The Tao gives birth to all beings,

nourishes them, maintains them,

cares for them, comforts them, protects them,

takes them back to itself,

creating without possessing,

acting without expecting,

guiding without interfering.

That is why love of the Tao

is in the very nature of things.

 

HI Hobo,

Now I can talk. I apologize for my hurried response earlier. I have been very busy today.

All the blah  blah about secret  gates and hidden cauldrons is interesting enough. What is better than a good mystery eh? This is why I appreciate your use of the the word Lair and your association of it with  a safe hiding place for  thieves, bandits etc. but then again the Lair is could be a womb, a tomb, a cauldron. The former, a hiding place for thieves prompts a  necessary  recollection why there is a secret at all. 

Tao Teh Ching 5

The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.

The Jade Purity, The Creatrix, The Unborn Mysterious Mother of All, progenitress of the Original Freedom is sending a secret carried by the wind to her born children.

[Hobo, just for fun, here I will pause to give a name that was whispered to me by a rain drop. Queen of the Immortals, the Royal Mother of the West, whose name was Hsi Wang Mu] For a moment I will digress and tell you what was told to me in a vision. I was in a foundational training class for   upgrading, transforming and purifying  the thieves lairs specifically the 10 earthly branches or the paired 5 element meridian systems and related organs. On a break from the practices of the class I went outside. When  suddenly I hear a voice that was not spoken direct me to go be  alone and  prepare to observe. It was raining that day. So I found cover under a pine tree and waited. The voice returned.  She said without speaking ,by generating a "movie like vision" superimposed over external reality ; " You are  a rain drop watch it fall into the  puddle , see the ripple. Does this ripple end? Then I was  shown in a sort of time lapse the water cycle of the  whole earth, from oceans to clouds and rain,  to mountains as snow melting into lakes which became rivers and returned to the sea again. Then in an isolated frame I was shown a single rain drop fall into the ocean. The the voice spoke again saying; " I am the Ocean, I am the Water, I am the Blood. I carry the Seed, I was here before the Earth and Humanity." Then I was shown  another  time lapse this was of the Universe. I saw the form of a translucent  woman stretched across deep space- nebula were her eyes, stellar wind streams were her hair. She was dancing , at first languishing in the rhythm of  the cosmic pulse then suddenly I heard, " I am purity, I am beauty, I was never born follow me and live in freedom violate me and  your life will turn into a dust storm." Wow Really, I thought I had better pay attention in class! That night I went home and started practicing around 10 PM to 3 AM I did all of the Yin/Yang cleansing exercises for each of the paired organs. Several things happened during this practice. I noticed my legs felt thick and heavy, but I kept going. The I noticed My back  felt like something was growing out of it hard and  rounded, then  at the hundred meeting points I felt something like a golden egg crack open liquid metal  was dripping inside my head and down my face in tiny streams of gold like rivers pouring down in rivulets over my body. I looked with my inner eyes to see what was going on with my  back and I saw a shell with chevrons ( I was too new to know about hexagrams and trigrams) so I raised my perspective  where I could see my whole self from above. I be darned , I thought to myself. I am a turtle. O.K. Now I can sleep. In my western Alchemical training I was taught to embrace the vision or image and sculpt it so that I might live  with it in solid form. What amazing upgrade Chinese Internal Alchemy is. In this art form we give  blood to  the Mysterious , we  embody the Mystery by purifying and bathing in practice. What the wind whispered to me that day was  the Jade Purity is already inside me, a hidden treasure waiting to be known or remembered. How elegant and delightful this feels. It is freedom to realize what I had been striving for  so long is alive in my blood, bones and body , unborn in eternity and within in the ever  present now. I call Her the Now and Forever Love. 

The author makes two hexagram allusions

 

first the wind is characterized as 巽

 

57. Sun / The Gentle (The Penetrating, Wind)

 

 

then the bounty is attributed to 坤 64

 

 

 

A gentle (SUN) breeze will blow, from within the sea,

Coming down from Heavens,  an edible (KUN) bounty.

I would be honor if you would detail sentence symbol for each of the  two hexagrams you mention above. I use  plum flower method of  divination for Yijing relying on  spontaneous earth events to give the hexagram. I  have yet to master , well  actually even come close to , extrapolating a hexagram from a sentence or  a stanza in a poem. My  background is in Western  Alchemy , Cultural Anthropology and cross cultural synthesis of symbols.  I am  totally new to Chinese Cultural exposure. I have only my practices and intuition to guide me sometimes. Your assistance in learning how to  read the hexagrams from this poem would  be welcome water  to a thirsty woman. 

 

Hey. Its not that bad but not great either. It probably manages to transmit the general feel of the original for the general reader, but it is inadequate for a practitioner's needs.

 

 

Actually me too. That said - he is not an expert on the specific subject matter.

Translating would be my pleasuer.

 

(for best results should  rapped to the Fresh Prince of Bel-air theme song)

 

 

Qi. Lair. Spirit. and Congeal.

Four characters only, this to see and feel:

 

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.

 

This is very interesting Hobo. 

You and Cleary arrive at 4 and 4 doubled in your translation. Four as , you know is earth, the Square , yellow etc. In TCM this is the  Stomach / Spleen. In our  practices it is the Stomach  / Pancreas.

  Earth over Earth in the Yijing is hexagram number 2 often called the Receptive, Natural Response,It is the energy of the Mare which the texts say compliments the pure Heaven energy of the Dragon, in my view it is the  naturalness of the receptivity of the Womb. I  assure you now the woman's( or any other female being)  womb makes no mistakes in what is able to to compliment its  function of creating life. 

Lair is a very interesting way to say safe resting place for an earth immortal as pure animals are known.

Lair noun

 

1. a wild animal's resting place, especially one that is well hidden. 

   a secret or private place in which a person seeks  seclusion.In the practice I

   learned there is a secret gate near with the Earth elements meeting place of TCM theory. This is an  important resting place for the  Mind. In Ms. Gonet's  book the First Poem is Recalling the MInd. to this " gate" or lair/ cave.

   I have much more to say but I must go now. What was your reason for choosing Lair? Personally I feel you  have a great intuitive capacity as well as an intellectual mind. I experience you as  containing receptivity.  

   LTR after my work is done. 

sure;) ...come one come all. every color that is with a shade of green.

Ye$. Well I will wait for your return. There is nothing I can  do without expert translation first.

Have you read Master Lü Dongbin‘s The Secret of Freedom? 

 

The Secret of Freedom  (Translation by Thomas Cleary)

 

Jadelike purity has left a secret of freedom

In the lower world:

Congeal the spirit in the lair of energy,

And you'll suddenly see

White snow flying in midsummer,

The sun blazing in the water at midnight.

Going along harmoniously,

You roam in the heavens,

Then return to absorb

The virtues of the receptive.  

???

???

 

Master Lü Dongbin‘s original poem is the following:

 

逍遥诀

 

玉清留下逍遥诀，

四字凝神入气穴；

六月俄看白雪飞，

三更又见日轮赫；

水中吹起籍巽风，

天上游歸食坤德；

更有一句玄中玄，

无何有乡是真宅。

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

What do you think about the translation of this poem by Thomas Cleary?  I respect Thomas Cleary and appreciate his work. 

But I am surprised this translation was not completed- the last two lines were not translated.  It seems that he does not understand the meaning of the two lines.  Actually the last two lines in this poem are very important.  Is it possible for you to translate this poem with your own version or at least to translate the last two lines and explain the meanings of the last two lines? 

 

Quantumdragon has experienced the pure freedom and ecstasy during the internal cultivation practice, and wants to offer assistance to you. I am thinking perhaps you and Quantumdragon would work together for a perfect and complete translation of Master Lü Dongbin‘s poem of Xiao Yao Jue. 

Hi Xuanming and Taoist Texts ,

I think that would be totally fun. From my  energy interactions with Hobo I have discovered he does a fantastic job embodying  the qualities of water as well as he does the intellectual fire. Just watch the way he  handles  all those attacks on his person, his character , his translations etc. When they thrust he flows. Brilliant. I have a poem I was given 2 years ago  near midnight in the year that might help illuminate this .  r u game hobo? I do not feel Xuanming is  picking a fight. I believe  he is sincere in his desire to see us collaborate.Community collaboration what a perfect reflection of the Way.   

Here is what I have to rely on as a non Chinese speaker. I wish google could do a better job. After all they make a fortune selling our private information why not give us  some decent product in return! Say what! It is gibberish or near it.

Google translate: