maldor

Has this thread died ?

My understanding of The Republic is that it is a discussion about how to move people towards enlightenment in order to better move other people towards enlightenment.

It is about the role of the enlightened ("wise" people) to help society and direct education towards increasing the number of enlightened people in society.

We can argue that it is about society or the individual. I think the main point that it is about both. There are plenty of examples in ancient philosophy of metaphors for the mind and I am sure this wasn't lost upon the readers of the time. 

"I haven't seen too many people combine Pythagoras, Kant and Heidegger."

Its the phenomenological tradition. Heidegger bastardised Husserl though.

I have experienced "bliss".

It is very hard to describe. I would characterise it as "loss of ego", but it is more about realisation than a "loss" and I am at odds with expressing what I mean by ego. All I know is I felt like everyone was my newly born child and I theirs. It was extraordinary. Happiness was irrelevant.

Also the above reply to Karl is patronising and unwilling to accept different uses of terminology in a field that has very little in the way of solid definitions.

War and Peace

Anyone who has experienced "unique states" will see it in everything. Was this what Plato was talking about, or was he simply trying to figure out a good way for cities to work?

I think one leads to the other. In the famous Cave it is clear to see he was showing how perspectives that are radically different are considered madness by others that hav eno comprehension.

I would not say that it is popular opinion that The Republic is only a political work. Maybe that is what is expected from the title.

As someone else has accused me of "trolling" maybe they'd like to discuss here and maybe read what has been said by me than make snap judgements.

My problem is with how people discern the so called "out there" (reality) compared to the "in here" (mental construct). My point is that they are distinctions that hold no validity. They are only terms to distinguish experientially constructed objects (ie. mental objects).

My reply was to spotless ... I will ask questions when and where I want to.

I am open minded and tolerant. Try to be the same with me please.

I'll wait for spotless's reply .. thanks though.

Why is it called the "philosophers stone" ?

I just cannot see it as anything other than a mental process. When I say "other than" I do not mean that to sound flippant, far from it!

I have no idea what practice I am supposed to progress in. I am aware of techniques that somewhat loosen consciousness and leaves yourself open to suggestibility. When I dream there are characters in my dream that seem to act beyond my control, during certain conscious episodes there are been independant voices in my head.

Trance? So I should probably dance around and chant? I've done that. It was extremely uplifting. I've also practiced meditation, but admit my heart just wasn't in it - although I found it also to be a pleasant experience.

Maybe I expereince "entities" all the timeand I just simply view them as extentions of myself into the supposed reality we call reality?

When I see people talking about chatting to Satan I know for certain they are chatting to themselves, because Satan is a fiction made by man. I do believe there is something that current culture adapts to these processes. I am inclined towards Jungian archetypes as being the reason for belief in these kind of entities. This is not to dismiss the whole thing as useless nonsense because they are powerful things that can help you to understand yourself and alter yourself for better or worse.

Are you claiming that elemental transmutation isn't possible?

 

UFA

I am stating that people have a horrible habit of taking things too literally. 

Its raining cats and dogs outside, gotta go!

Have people forgotten what a "metaphor" is ?

Lead into gold ... Seriously?

I am baffled why people believe these "entities" are something other than themselves?

WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ?

Just wondering what peoples biews are of this. Now known as a pseudoscience it has no less had a profound effect on many businesses regarding sales techniques.

Is there anything in nlp of any real worth?

Actually one of the situations I see this is on the trip meter in my car which reads 111.1. The same thing happens: my eyes are, it sems deliberately, pulled off the road to the instrument panel, and it is only there for 100 metres, a few seconds. This has nothing to do with an internal clock, in the time sense.

I think you are making mountains out of molehills. There are many fascinating things in the world, this doesn't even get on the radar.

I guess what I was calling 'higher self' can also be called the unconscious  - which is also a kind of inner clock.

 

The 11:11 phenomenon is often of interest to spiritual people, who claim that it shows up as part of their path.  Do we agree with this?

Before digital clocks I doubt people gave it much consideration. I have no idea how people, if they do, view this as part of their spiritual path so I cannot comment.

I know enough about brain function not to take it as anything other than simply an unconscious capacity. I know I could tell the time at sea within a a minute or two. What the body is physiologically capable of is quite amazing. Things such as seeing with your tongue, ears, programming yourself to be a human compass ... I am sure the list is longer than what I know of.

It is possible to know the time without a clock. If your clock runs regulary your inner clock can easily tell the time. No need for "eyes in the back of your head", your mind knows the time and you are drawn towards the 1111 because it is a balanced figure. I you drawn towards more conventional clocks with hands? I doubt it.

There is no need for out of body views. You may as well say an alien programmed your mind to look at the clock at that time in order to trigger such and such...

It is not even a theory. A theory is based on hypothesis. Theories, by definition, can be tested. You cannot test what you say ergo it is not a theory it is conjecture.

Re:

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"There are various ways of attaining altered states of consciousness."

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Most important may be to understand how it is we are having the consciousness that we do have.

 

Then we would know why or how or when to "alter" it.

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

What do you mean by consciousness ?

Just be aware that when people say "practice" what is really being said is that you "condition" yourself. Understand that YOU are conditioning yourself. Don't get lost in there.

The point of a reading is to delve into your unconscious/subconscious mind. You read the cards guided by the power of the unconscious. The whole point of Magick (in my opinion) is to feed of the power of the unconscious mind as it is presented into conscious being. The more you condition yourself to open up the unconscious and allow its "content" to pass into conscious being the better you become at understanding your capabilities and can therefore become less susceptible to self delusion.

By reading you are drawn towards a particular interpretation because that is a hint of what you really think. I've done reading for people before and told them what each card could mean ... they simply read what they know and find want they really want. The decision they think they should make is made clearer whether they like it or not.

People with what I would call more "spiritual" beliefs may see this as a sign from above, or may see it as an entity guiding them. I see it as a someone claiming self control. The entities I encounter are part of me, I am legion because we are many ... we are all many things, multifaceted beings.

I do not disregard the possible existence of other entities at all. I just know the difference between imaginging and knowing. Neither is silly or nonsense. They are both powerful faculties of the mind/spirit/brain/soul.

Ethics? ... Politics ? Spot the difference.

There are various ways of attaining altered states of consciousness. Some people are likely more susceptible than others.

- Fasting

- Sleep deprivation

- Sensory deprivation

- Intense concentration

- Hyperventilation

- Trance (induced by dancing and/or dancing)

- Use of psychotropic substances

Floating in a tank for an hour our or two is not really going to induce much of an altered state. To have effect I do think these techniques need to be prolonged and I would not advise doing so because it is dangerous ... regardless I doubt there are many people willing to push themselves purposefully to such an extreme.

I would certainly recommend all of the above in small doses purely for relaxation and self investigation.

Lao Tzu wasn't likely a single person.

Next time you are irritated think of it as misused excitement ... it works