seekingbuddha

 

I think that applies equally well to attempting to convince the haughtily disdainful of anything or to reinforcing the hollow beliefs of those who just "want to believe" but have no personal experience.

Oh, oh, oh.... I am not haughtily  disdainful -  au contraire,  I meant to ask an open minded question out of curiosity.  I happen to believe in other worldly beings.   I merely  thought,  one of those people  that the question was addressed to  would entertain the idea of  adding  to  the discussion.   Didn't  realize  that  it would  rise up strong emotions like these.

Thanks  to the OP  for this news item.   Applications of  advanced physics usually  comes about after many years.  I  imagine  a day,  when  people  can  design  a device  that can  use & oppose  the  gravity  waves  using  some clever mechanism.   Then,  we  would  not need  fossil  fuels.  I can imagine a use in  deep space travel, without  the need for enormous amounts of fuel - spaceship  would  simply  ride  the wave.   Sooner  or later,  we have to come up with  energy sources  other  than  fossil fuels.

OK.  Hundred posts have passed by, and the topic has not yet covered  the a subject  that i was waiting  for.    I have couple of questions, since many have reported  interactions  with  other dimensional beings (higher or lower).   I think  this topic should cover  this part of the discussion as well.

1. Have you had  this interaction when  you are NOT under the influence of substances ?  If so,  how did the other worldly being  present itself ? 
2. What makes  you so sure that it is not a play of the mind ? (hallucination or some such are commonly reported).

Something that came to my mind,  when i read ......"So you seem to ask whether the lower beings/spirits can infiltrate a deity and then deceive one merging with a deity?"....... 

When there is clarity / concentration / wisdom  of mind that springs from a wholesome foundation, there is no deception possible.  Everything & every being is seen / known, for what it really is.

Since we are discussing karma, i have continued this discussion in the new thread that someone has started regarding "karma".  We don't want to derail this thread topic.

This  discussion is  about karma,  so  i am continuing a discussion (from another thread) with  "Spotless"  into this thread:

Spotless said "Ones entire Karmic Load is zero - ones propensities and the strength/compression/rigidity of them is ones Karma."

Steve has posted a good point in this thread.   What is being  described as  "propensities / proclivity / patterning"  has a cause.  The cause of these  proclivities / patterns / compressions,   is  the actions and thoughts from the past.   This is my way  of understanding your  views/words, within my foundation /framework (ie. the Buddhist  faith  regarding karma).   There is no good / bad as you pointed out in the other thread,  but as Steve pointed out here,  there is  action & consequences;   simply and justly,  as a law of universe,  nature  delivers  these consequences.   Buddhist philosophy accommodates rebirth and hence the concept of  karmic  repercussions  carrying over into many lifetimes.  It is not necessary that a action  bears fruit  within one life span.   Consequence is  simply a law of nature - similar to how the physical / material world has laws of physics.

I lack the ultimate wisdom/Enlightenment,  to directly see these things in my own mind/experience.  So,  i  choose to trust  in the teachings of  the Enlightened beings who have seen these truths directly in their experience.

This is way out of my league, but I have to share something that just happened to me a couple nights ago.  A Bum who was working with me to help dissipate K-energy in my crown chakra suggested that I visualize a Buddhist deity.  I am not a Buddhist, but have recently read several Sutras and recognized aspects of myself in Flower Glow, so I decided to use this entity as my visualization.  In visualizing Flower Glow, I saw him as a bare chested Asian man with a man-bun, and drawstring pants.  The next night, another entity was with him.  This time it was a slender Asian woman in black Chinese pajama-type outfit.  She told me (intuitively) that her name was Maven.  At first, I thought she had transmitted 'Raven', but she transmitted back, 'No, Maven.'

 

To my knowledge, I have never heard the word maven.  If I did, it is far beyond my memory.  I didn't know there was such a word as maven.  But just out of curiosity, I googled 'define maven' the next morning, just in case there was a word like that.

 

Imagine my surprise to discover that a maven is an expert; and in fact an alternative definition is 'guru' or 'master'.  I am dumbfounded.

Since  a man and woman appeared to you (in a dream, i am guessing)........  could it be to indicate  that  "you (maven?)  are more experienced"  than the other person who was working with you (a man i am guessing)  ??   Perhaps subconsciously  you held  a feeling  that your knowledge in spirituality and practices  is  better than the one who was assisting you ?  What time of day did you do the visualization ? I am assuming it was during a meditation (or some such) ?

This  thread  title  is misguided and wrong.   Ask  most people who are over 70 and who are suffering from illness of body that naturally  comes  to  most of the older population -   i bet most would say  they do not agree with your thread  title.  

There is desire to live long,  only when you  think that  this  life is your only chance to live.  But if you subscribe to the teachings of spiritual masters  then you would  have faith that  rebirth (ie.  going to heaven or hell in christianity)  is  inevitable.  Then,   human time  span  does not matter all,  because  birth and death are simply  events of  the  infinite ONE - and we are part of that ONE.  Why bother about  death  or for that matter even living ?  Note that i am not subscribing or prescribing  nihilism or  suicide.  For me, all that matters is living without  too much  suffering, as long as it lasts, on earth.

I consider Yidam as something different than connecting directly with a higher level being, Yidam involves visualisation while the connection to a higher level being is usually in the form of energy or information, which is usually in an altered state such as trance, dream or meditation. 

 

Do I know many people who connect to beings in the direct way? yes some. Do I have examples of people being tricked while doing Yidam practice? no I don't know anyone who does Yidam, but there are examples of people being tricked by spirits and beings throughout most of the traditions. Would you be protected with empowerment? well usually lineages have preliminaries and empowerments for a reason, often these things are worked out quite precisely over many generations. 

I think you yourself answered your original question.  This topic  brings forth the importance of  "sila (morality)"  which is the basic foundation laid forth by all the highest  religious/spiritual  teachers  that humanity  has ever known.   The foundation of  righteousness/goodness/sila/morality   is  the protection/empowerment/preliminaries  necessary,  in order to know the answers you seek,  without  a  hint of doubt.  

Jetsun,  Thanks for that  wonderful quote from Tolle.  It has expressed with clarity a feeling that i have not been able to express in words so clearly to even myself.  I think the  key word is found in the final  sentence of that quote -  "Purpose".  

In my contemplations,  I have not been able to find any other "purpose"  that is so luminous, as the "purpose of doing good to other living beings".  This maybe just doing good to our family, or to our friends or to our  nearby society,  or to humanity itself  (if one has the energy and ability to extend their reach that far). 

Getting  back to the  original  topic.....

Spotless,  thank you for your wisdom.  I found resonance with the following words:  "Try a diet of no judgement.  Try a diet of no media when you can. If meditating is difficult go to a movie and listen to non-vocal music - choose a clean headspace - go driving."    So, i will keep these in my mind.  Ups and downs are waves of existence one must face.

I will have to arouse energy to strive further in my path, and to integrate practices into my life.   As you said,  these positions/views  have been built over many lifetimes and are not easy to let go.  Sometimes i feel that it is ridiculous to think that one  can  overcome  lifetimes of  karma,  with  just my volition / free-will / energy / aspiration.  Put another way,  how can i  think that my thinking/effort is enough to overcome  the will of the cosmos/universe/God/karma/whatever-else-you-call-it.    This has been a topic of  my contemplations  for some time now.  I have found some answers/thoughts in this regard, but do not want to derail this thread further.   Contemplations and theories  should not interfere with  practice and effort to further myself along THE PATH.

Those pictures  seem  like  photo-shooed  to create awe  inspiring images ?

Wonderful to see your state of mind.   I do not think this is PTSD in your case.  I think a trauma can lead to one of 2 things:

1. Negative states of mind, like  Denial / depression / anger / PTSD etc.
2. A trigger  that  tells us "hey, wake up and see through the fog of life".

I would bet you fall under the second category.  It has been my experience that,  the deeper I delve into the  mind and unleash  this tranquility,   the  deeper rooted  sufferings (that i have been withstanding for decades)   come upto the  surface.  Then,  i  need to  deal  with tremendous  amount of sufferings that i have been burying inside me (like you, i have an above average capacity to withstand suffering, and hence put up with more than i needed to, in life).   Life and death  do not seem  to matter anymore, at some point.  When you feel  the ebbing away of the life force within,  do not dwell  on it - do not be in that rut.  I think  it is natural that as we get older, many of us  instinctively & consciously feel that decrease of life-force.  

It helps if you have faith in after life / rebirth etc.  Then, you can say that whatever you do or think from now on, will have "goodness as basis"  (because this will result in a good rebirth).  Spend your time reading or contemplating spiritual books/teachings.   You  need something  that your  mind  can cling to,  and strive towards.   So, i suggest  that you cling  to the  higher teachings  of   truly enlightened  beings.   Read  their words  (like  Milerapa's  songs or  Carl  Jung or  J.Krishnamurthi or whoever else you like).  In the absence of no clinging,  you are experiencing  that  spaciousness and tranquility.   Nothing wrong with it. As long as your  remaining time is  being  spent  for the well-being of yourself  OR  for others.  You are simply  dealing with the suffering  that is deep within you,  and  it is better that your deal with it now, rather than carry it over to the next life  (assuming  that there is a next rebirth).   Perhaps,  craving  for  bliss or  joy  is  creating  the dilemma,  this  puzzle.  In fact, i  feel that  this  spaciousness,   stability  & tranquility  that you feel  may have subtle undertones of  peace and acceptance;  in fact  this maybe  better than the  ups & downs of   joy and sorrow.  (If there is joy, it can not last forever ?)   It maybe  highly  beneficial  to talk openly to  peers or a teacher, who has gone through what you are going through.

Thanks for that comments on porridge.  I have had some pretty tasty congees  when i travelled in asia.  Need to look up some receipe online and start doing that. I have an automatic rice cooker that i can set up the previous night, and it will be ready in the morning  when i wake up.  It is lighter than oatmeal and hence makes for a easy  start of day.  I bought the "healing with whole foods"  book, based on suggestion here - didn't  expect it to be  as thick as Bible :-)   It seems like the only book i will need, in order to understand  food approach of TCM,  if only i can find a way to skim through it, for an initial surface level understanding..

Same here and with the newest update for OS X.

I did not update my OS, but remember that i updated  Safari to latest.   Since i did not have this problem before few months, i suspect  this is a Safari  issue.   I have searched the net  a bit, and others have reported somewhat similar problem  (but not while  posting a message).   It maybe  the way safari is interacting  with the  Forum server,  and it is possible that the  Webmaster  can fix  this by looking at the HTML/JS  code  in relation with safari.   This is very irritating  and hopefully  someone  in  this forum  management  will read this thread.

Please examine your words here above. You have fenced off quite a bit and positioned yourself in what you have assumed based on "past". Bud was quite precise in his choice of words - particularly the word "choose". It can be quite a gift to be a householder in this business of Waking. It is obviously a gift you have given to yourself. Exercise your choice to be in a state of awareness - and as you find yourself removed from it - find it again and again and again. Gain and lose the world daily. You are not a victim of circumstances - though you may be playing that part for now - you have never been a victim of circumstances. Ones concept of "Worldly Affairs" is often an affair with ones perception of the world - where you are in that is far more a choice than is generally even remotely understood. But in this idea we fail because for the most part we believe "choice" is willfulness and overcoming. This is the person hammering a square peg into a round hole - the positioned life. Life from a defensive positioned tension - it is the coffee in whose reactive base we gain impulse - we know no alternative. This position is not required to function in "Worldy Affairs".

Thank you spotless, for bringing me back to contemplation.  I understand most of what you said, though some words are beyond my experience level and hence beyond my understanding.  I understand that it is a "choice" that we make to stay in awareness amidst the daily affairs in society.  But, i do tend to get caught up, and get overwhelmed by the 6 senses when i immerse myself  too deeply  into usual daily grind.  I guess i am not grown enough to withstand the onslaught of the 6 senses, and still dwell  in those wholesome foundations needed for liberation.  So, i spoke of my experience - it has been that my awareness/tranquility/stability/wisdom   is directly proportional to the time i dedicate to meditation, away from the daily grind and  household obligations.   I am open to guidance from experiential  wisdom.

Has anyone tried using Safari browser while trying to edit a new message that you are typing?  I am tired of this after seeing this for many weeks now. It was not giving this problem before, but suddenly  i am unable to  highlight any text while typing a new post.   If i try to highlight, the browser will suddenly jump to the bottom of the page, and hence i can not edit the current message that i am typing in the "REPLY"  section to a thread.  I noticed that this happens only when i have couple of paragraphs that fill up the visible portion of the REPLY  section.  I searched the net, without much clues on how to fix it, though there seem to be many others who have similar problem (but not exactly the same as i am describing).  I am on Macbook running Mavricks with Safari 9.0.2 version.

Kundalini,  what you are asking  is  easier said  than done.  This kind of deeply buried childhood  emotions take lot of energy and time  to deal with.   You also need lot of mental fortitude to forge ahead, when these emotions surface - the typical response of mind  is the usual....it will try to say that you can not yet deal with these emotions that are strong.  So,  take steps, knowing fully well that this is very time consuming and long process.  When you are ready,  you need to get committed to a spiritual path.  My  wisdom is that you will find more help in THE PATH,  rather than  trying numerous  modern psychologists or western therapy approaches.  After full commitment to a spiritual path with full faith, things will automatically start revealing.   

The fastest way to accomplish this probably not feasible for a lot of people. It would  be to retreat into nature, surrounded by nature's beauty and solace, and spending time in contemplation for many months or years.  This is typically not possible for a lot of people. So, the next best course is to take your time, and settle down for a long journey (in comfort) with your buddies who are hiding inside your mind :-)   They will eventually resolve, since you seem to have started the initial steps already. As they say..... "Time heals".

Bud, nice and penetrating wisdom in that post.  I do realize the truth in your words, but practicing those suggestions  requires time devoted to cultivation.   Otherwise, one gets caught up in the worldly affairs that drag awareness and other qualities down.  That is why i mentioned  in previous post,  " ........this  desire for  withdrawal from the material world/activities."   Perhaps this gets easier after one's  retirement;  after one has the basic needs of life (ie. food, shelter, clothing, medical needs guaranteed for rest of life).   Being constantly engaged in the worldly affairs, directly results in compromise of the degree of awareness possible.  

Orion,

you said (in OP).... "I still only see the pointlessness (not in a depressed way, but in a temporal way). I have so much love and compassion for other people and living things, but it doesn't negate that I feel like having to live this life and involve myself in material world tasks seems pointless."

I  wonder  how you overcame  this  mental state that  says  ...."Becoming engaged in the material world  is pointless."  From the numerous posts i have read in other threads, the standard reply goes....  "go for a walk or go to gym or do something".   But, in your case, there is an undercurrent of  pointlessness,  in all activities.  Since your feeling  runs deep, i wonder what you collected as insights, in order  to deal with  this  desire for  withdrawal from the material world/activities.

I have not studied Daoist texts, but my belief is that all spiritual maters have advocated withdrawal from society.  Buddha prescribed  "renunciation" as the first step towards liberation of mind.  Jesus  took his disciples from family/society  into a life unattached to their former social bonds.   I can not think of a single Enlightened person, who has not gone through the phase of living  "alone, away from society".  These spiritual masters also understood that NOT everyone will be willing to break free of the bondages that we form in our minds - family, friends, money, work etc.  Even when  I  see all this clearly,  i have fear  arising out of  the factors of   health/old-age/comfort  that stop me from becoming a solitary monk.   

So, short of becoming a solitary monk,  we have only one solution :  Try to find the balance that prior post is talking about.  Some sort of balance between our desire to lead  a life free from suffering,  and our desire to stay within the society and its bondages. Every effort  in life needs time to practice and perfect.  So,  growth in spiritual realm also needs time commitment, which would not be possible for someone  who  is engaged in other activities (money making, family making, etc).  It is wonderful  if someone can see all this during their youth; because that is the time when one has the choice of  NOT creating further bondages (marriage, child etc).  But, the lure of opposite sex  is strong during our youth.

Orion,

    What are the  insights and practices you have gained from this thread, regarding  how to  maintain  your  heightened awareness and mind state,   in  light  of  daily  sufferings  that we face as  part of  life in society ?   Have you gotten input regarding this from your friends  who  claim  to live in  blissful  state  frequently  ?

This picture reminds me of  the  darkness (on skin and otherwise)  that  we can  notice  around a person  who  is struggling with   drug addictions.  I am sure many in this forum can sense the same,  when they come across a random stranger, who is outwardly  bubbly, normal and social,  but has that darkness of addictions  visible  in their eyes.

I also remember seeing a video of  Adyashanti,  where he says that "Ego starts from the abdomen area".   Perhaps  there is  an inner organ in the abdomen area,  that stores the negative  feelings  (like EGO) ?  I wonder what  TCM has to say about  organs and what feelings  are stored  in each organ. I  have contemplated  the possibility  that  this  subtle energy body  is what is  referred to as  "the spirit"  in  Christianity.

This is a good thread,  let us carry on with posts relevant to original topic

Thank you, i didn't  notice the  settings icon until you gave the images.  That helped.  The  sorting order could be improved still with more options like "relevancy"  - for example if all the given words occur close to each other,  it could be  more relevant.  This would help  in case the exact phrase is not remembered by the searcher.    Searching  is quite important, since this forum has a wealth of  info buried in old threads.