Kubba

A nice docummentary that is related to fear of death: http://youtu.be/QgOBfCrxS3U. I remember that Adyashanti once being asked how the awakenning feels like - answeared - it feels like dying. Intelectual understanding of suffering and fear, and actually experiencing bodily responces to mental fears are 2 different things. Intelectuall understanding is okay, but it ends up at some point, cause it gives no fruits, just intelectuall understanding thats all. But since the body is within the mind and not the other way aroun... One can actually see it through simple experiment. through letting go of the throath breathing. When one will let go of sensation that suggests that we breath through our throath or nostrils using our willpower then breathing will happend through natural abdomen movements, observing this will lead to slowing down metabolic processes, and moments of subsiding the breath. There one can start to be affraid that one don't breath or that one don't controll the breath (which is more true). You can really start to sweat and feeling as if your heart will stop in a moment.. Intelectuall understanding at this moment wont have any meaning. But it is a good thing to start with

Thanks!!

Good that you pointed it. What you talk about is an average human functioning which function as you described. Conscious, and subconscious. Things from the subconscious bubbeling into awarness which can process limited amount of informations. When you dont think you seem not existing at all What I meant by being totally conscious is transcending this what was so far in subconsciousness. in this state you don't have subconsciousness anymore as it was so far. Disc is not your operating system anymore, emptied, no conflicts. You still have conscious awarness but you dont identify with it, you are able to think but no more operating from conditioning. You Experience from the heart region, not From the head

do you say that I promote abdication and automatic actions? I did not say it - you interprete it this way, I don't really know why..There is inteligence when one steps behind the conditioned mind. It's not that you don't know anything and walk like a robot. There is just intelligent knowing. It is something impossible to reach from the mind perspective. Pure understanding withought thoughts. How one can test it withought actually being there? Untill that moment it is just academic speculation. Word against word, like discussing how an apple tastes All I talk about is transcending and unifying these parts of our existence that are in separation, starting from being devided between subconscious and concious. So being totally conscious of who one really is. Being full The way you talk about responsibility looks like another split - between the one who act and the one who is responsible

Animals like dogs have traumas of past events, and it prints into their behaviour patterns. Dogs that were treated bad way are more afraid than those who were not. Suicide is due to the mind and false personality where the "me" suffers. You suicide cause youre afraid of life/ existence.... People generally suffer of wanting to became someone, wanting to experience sensory desires and wanting to destroy themselves/ negating themselves.. It triggers hormonal responces and influences nervous system. In this model you dont suffer - doest mean you dont experience bodily pain, but the psyhological is gone. "Being responsible for your emotions" is a new age slogan. Since you are a human you experience emotions and empathy as you experience metabolic processes. When youre open you just allow different emotions to happend, can't controll them alrhought people try to controll them by contracting different muscle regions Am not negating individuality or responsibility. I would say that youre more responsible for yourself and others in this model than so far. Emotions in this state of consciousness are experienced more normal way you don't feed their existence through extensive thinking, cause you dont have a storry triggered by emotions...

Not at all - it is exactly the opposite. Subconscious is automatic consciousness, where you are jut as a doll moved by tendencies and conditioning of your past and the way you were rised by parents. And indeed the animalistic mind is involved there as just survival instinct and fear of death/ nonexistence. Its like being owned. In the model that I have described above instinctive consciousnes is also transcended and included. Also, as someone explained to me parts of our being that we carried throug our evolution since RNA was developed, that belong to other animal forms are transcended too, even human being within you is transended and unified. You might even witness all these regression into depths of our being. you're not longer moved by this forces unconsciously, and finally you do what you really want, withouth being conflicted, nor being afraid of death and live. No longer trapped in this realm of existence and the body yet you enjoy all thats here as existence of which you are not separated. This is the meaning of this business

Intuition is hard thing to put into any definition. It's like explaining what is salmons instinct - how they know where to travel in order to reproduce? Do they ask themselves how do we know why we go there? No, they just go.Definitions are masculine tendencies to pack everything into words and structures. Women on the other hand are more connected and often time don't have such problem, they just act and are angry anytime when a man tries to put her into box by asking her a question - whats wrong? - wanting her to explain herself to him. She does not see any problem yet the man wants the structure cause he lacks of sensitivity. For example when I do my Qui Gong or Yoga exercises I sense the flow of energy within the body so according to this I addapt my movements. In simple words - I just move. I don't know which sequence of movements I will perform in next minute cause the flow will change geometrically like these forms that one can see in the kaleidoscope. So one can say that I do it according to my intuition, noone taught me this. Another person, seing this can ask me why I do it? If this person would be a psychiatrist, he or she would immediately make notes and ask me questions. If I would answer honestly, they would assume that I "see something", and preceiving anything else than thoughts and emotions in our culture is a sighn of mental illnes. Same about you - how did you choose to came to this forum? There is also a kind of flow of thoughts, needs and feelings/ cravings, muscles contractions and body language, that are leading peoples life, this stuff is generally called mind, as you said somewhere - that does not have external existence on its own, but yet it dirrects peoples life. Within the mind boundries there is just train of thoughts, sensations and feelings coming one after another in sequences called patterns that are very mechanic. So one would say that I choosed this or that, but the choice was made by this sequences. So the "me" operates only within boundries of these patterns. A lot of people here practice in order to transcedent this "mind" which is just energy in separations due tu internal conflicts which produce different forces that are as if drowing us in different, usually opposite directions. These kind of practices can lead someone to actually transcending this thing, called "mind", which simply means that these opposite forces will wanish. You don't think anymore the way you were doing it so far, so you wake up in the morning, eat something, go for a walk, and there is no thought or craving weather to do this or that. You oppened the refrigerator and picked food that you needed, according to the actuall situation of your body. You just did this stuff withouth thinking, yet you knew what is right thing to do, and which food would serve you. How did you know all this if there was no thoughts trying to find out which decission would be better, and you did not have any structurised plan? Now the "me" is operating beyond boundries of the mind that I've described above. Now you move according to your intuition and sense of flow, but you don't ask yourself weather it is intuition or flow, you use these words when someone ask you and you are aware that these words are limited to mental constructs. You also can preceive within yourself repercusions Of past patterns popping from time to time. When you think of flow, the simple example is river. You say river - you have an image of a river, but when you step into it then you can feel pressure of moving mass of water. The flow of human existence and bodily energy can be compared to it - when you are in this "water" then you somehow feel this "pressure" but it is not a feeling limited to the way we experience emotions. So when someone is limited to the mind it is like standing in dried river - one simply can't feel it, cause there is no water there, so one identifies feelings, cravings, thoughts patterns with what one actually have choosen or wants. But the sense of intuition is also mixed with it, yet very suppressed by conditioning so one can't yet recognise what is what. Hope I explained it.

Well, then am sorry

Intuition is intuition, flow is flow feelings are feelings and definitions are definitions. You know it or you don't. Spotless is gentle with you and you fight cause you want to have right but better would be to simply say "thank you for explanation". And dont repeat on and on what you have read about all this self stuff, everyone here see that these words you use are not yours and that you don't understand them. Some mental masturbation going on on your side... Instead of trolling you could soften your shell and learn something from people here. better find out why do you want to have right all the time, cause someone has taught you this. this investigation will bring you fruits. Now you will defend yourself. Now you wil say sonmething neglecting, now... Etc

Dream, A lot of words . According to Anadi, who has developed a nice "map" - First thing to do would be to develop constant awarness and realise it - awarness withouth mind objects. With it then you can overcome the mind and its problems of subconsciouss nature, cause you can simply track them to their roots. then you reach another thing which is all sorts of feelings which lies under the mind, and are related to different regions of the body. You no longer react with thoughts, but still there are this feelings/sensations that different situations still trigger. At this point you see clearly that you are also made of this emotions, and not only painfull, cause there is also excitement, pleasure, greef... Almost unnotacible feelings and they are almost impossible to notice with accompaniament of the mind. Prior to that I would say that yoga purify it really good. One monk has also reccomended me once TRE exercises which work really good for this Pain body withouth the mind effort to find out...

Yes - you like to talk a lot, not actually knowing what you talk about

That's not true. How do you know?

Eckhart Tolle has invented this word. As far as I understand it from my experience - the Pain Body is beyond subconscious mind, and is made of all kind of feelings that we identify with. It is under our thoughts. And it works 24 a day. You cannot enter the Pain Body, or go beyond its boundaries since you are all made of it.., You don't have any choice , and 99 choices are dictated by tendencies of Pain Body. If you alrady suffer of thinking weather to choose to cut yourself from thi or that music, this choice and pain comming from not knowing what to do already has its root in the Pain Body.

Then you might still have some slight energy blockage? I myself use some mixture of essetial oils into my nostrils and forehead that includes rosemarin and lavender + yoga and tre exercises to free the energy. Maybe you need to see some teacher, that could give you better advice when seeing you face to face. Ayurvedic medics are good with this stuff too. Or maybe something new is waking up in your forehead. Any visions occurs while this pain? Or just pain alone withouth any fireworks? But am not a specialist , I kind of had the same problem....

THere are cong-ans in Zen tradition that relate to this phenomena, but cant find any information that explain it.. I try to educate myself, but have no clue what is it, anyone has an answer? I've experienced it some time ago while some kundalini stuff going on. This sound was born from the breath reorganisation. The pushing through contractions on the front side of the body while exhalation/inhalation produces "m" and then, the same inhalation/exhalation that pushes through contractions along the back of the body produced "u". Something recognised it, and I said "mu", but in that moment it was as if something said "mu" not me, and there was a kind of a research of this one who is "mu" to answer the question - who is "mu"?. So who is "me"? Body pointed to the tree and said "mu" as if "me" but the recognition that followed was that it isn't it, then it pointed to the heart and said "mu", and still not it, and it continued for some time, and each time when the answer was wrong, there was some reorganisation of energy in the spine column. It looked as if heart looking for what "me" is but everything that could point to, wasnt it. At the end it was even pointing to the absolute consciousness, beyond forms, and then the search continued through negation of objects, to find out what is this absolute. The feeling was, that as the one who is "mu" moves, there is something that does not moves. At the end there was some moment when my whole ody started vibrating with very fine but intesive vibrations as if on the whole skin level, and something "broke up", the energy relased and went downward in the front channel into hara. I could not move for some time, lying down, then I stood up, and I could not say anything. When I wanted to say anything, any word that started in my mind changed into "mu" in my mouth. Then this process continued, in some form, that can be described as extracting different parts of the body from the sense of "me" through different vibrations (simply by saying this "mu" with specific intonation, that was putting different tissues and parts of the body into vibrations, after withch the relase of energy was experienced). All it was going on on auto pilot. So from my point of view at that moment it was something as if being extracted itself from the subconscious mind and was looking for its real subjectiv identification. But also there was mind process going on to find out what does it means. THats why I guess, the right answer to kong-an "what does mu means?" is "don't know" in order not to get involved into mental process. Simply they are preparring people for this phenomena. Funny enought I met 2 people in psyhiatric hospital, that wasn't related to zen tradition and they were telling this "mu" as well. One was after pilgrime to some Cristian church, other was just an average farmer doing yoga.... Still, it is very interesting phenomena that makes me curious. Then, some months after this event I contacted some monk, and I said to him about it, and he aswered that it happend sometimes, and it is subconscious desire to get free from bounds of personality. But am stil not satisfied with this explanation. Does anyone find any scripture about it or has met any explanations? I would be thankfull.

they ask this kongan in Zen - how does the cow travels through the river?

Thank you for this quote Tibetan_Ice. It is marvelous, and helpfull . It is a metaphore, but I would say that it is literally whats going on. Since lots of emotional patterns hold on to the breath, and since we are wrongly used to breath through the troath.... it unties through Mu literally as if something stuck there, undoing the self contraction on breath. But still there is some kind of mistery in this phenomena. Am just amased what triggers it, the soul? It is like the inteligence beyond the realm of human ability of the mind concepts and graspings

It is about helping you with organising your Sadhana (which will purify your body from old patterns so the mind too) and simply receiving transmission which is crucial thing. Being in presence of someone who knows, withouth even talking, already helps with stabiilisation of your state. It is just made this way. Candles start to burn when you lit them up with the fire. I did not talked about shapes of reality, but what the reality is made of if you preceive it already? Enjoy talking to you too. Have fun! Warm K

Yoga assanes are good for it. Mathsayasana, and the same but with straight legs. balasana, urdhva dhanurasana, salamba sarvangasana, savasana and the same but with legs in open position, adho mukha, svanasana and also with pillow under the head. The should minimise the pain right after the session. Throath positions will evoke healing... when meditate, move your attention to abdomen, right under the tummy into the place where the breath stops. Trying to move this energy not nessesary will bring effects, it might even become worse and bring some crazy thinking and disorientation if doesnt work, just stop for some time. Have you talked to someone teacher about your awakening in order to confirm what actually had happened?

noone said it is easy . Can try on chair also. I myself practiced lying down for some time, but it is easy to fall asleep. Sometimes when your mind is occupied by pain etc, just put earphones and tur on some leaded meditation by an enlightened being. For some it is easier to sustain longer this way in the beginning

I know what you mean abot flowers . I really enjoy you saw it . Now you know why all these gurus put flowers all around . God loves beuty.... What you call she: She is just the cosmic energy, and I remember when I was talking once to my teacher with simillar duality that you talk - he answered - "she is who you are" - if that gives you any clue, Blue.... So first she is bonded to limitations of the mind and body, then this bond breaks, so she bacames crazy and happy, and since your body is made of her.... like a dog withouth the leash, I remember one day I really craved to cream my whole body with mayonaise and cream, so I did heheh And some abilities that you have, like seeing different kinds of energy, preceiving future are also things not to be afraid but I know that resistance can rise. You can became very sesitible for other people, like with this cops. Some enviroment you can't stand anymore. Resistance is a kind of normal thing, and as far as I know it will simply continue for some time. What I can say is that these resistances arise from old conditioning, old ways of contracting the body and mind, and when looking into them, they reveal - you see them for what they are. The energy just frees itself out of the bondage of old habits and it can look really collorfull. Someone told you this or that when you were a child, and then there is fear and you don't know why you are afraid... Suffering is rooted deeper than subconcious mind. Some disorientations might arise temporary, cause old way of preceiving the world does not have sense anymore... These resistances are a kind of builds up of energy that washes out of the system, through your bodily ability to feel, and thoughts and internal conflicts arise of this, then they reveal and sometimes you know what they are, sometimes you don't, and letting go happends. Just embrace it, and your mind too. Denial isn't a good thing, but some taditions deny it. In my case, these build ups are followed by some body movements, and I need to jump into some yoga postures, bands, lockings of the breath or different pranayamas, it is also something natural, and if it happends to you - it is good to find a safe place where you can do it, it is a kind of a secret and sacred thing, and averege person won't understand its nature. Letting go of these resistances, and simply letting go is a kind of art, personal art for each individual. LIke offering yourself to it... underneeth there is more and more freedom. There is also thing with cravings, sometimes it is good to find a diet that your body needs, and drow a line between old cravings for some time. The need for any particular techique of meditation might subside, but it is good just to sit from time to time the classic meditation which is really natural. Natural meditation harmonise the bodily and subtle functioning Thats why I repeat that finding a guid would be proper thing to do next- to find out for yourself what all this is about How do you see the world around you? What is the nature of reality - does it appears for you as if everything is made of one thing?

Don't feel pity for yourself that there is something "not for you". Does these paintfull experiences lasted very intensive for some time and then subsided? Or they continue since some time? (How long) Transformation is paintfull, no doubt abou it, I even payed with blood... I kind of have feeling what you've been passing through, but I can't recognise if these are kryias pre kundalini awakening or post or some raw kundalini movements? Or shakti already traveling up and down -many scenarios possible. Do you know for yourself where you are at this moment? What has happened to you? If you had kundalini awakening that was triggered through your meditations then these intensive stuff won't come back, if it is partial awakening all can last even for several years (thats why I suggested for you some guide who could verify whats going on) I wan't to tell you from my experience that these energies can realy make you move special way that they required, can be even shaking or vibrating of your full body, and not only screaming can come - sometimes I needed to go into the deep forest for a week in order for people not To see and hear me, but it isn't that much dramatic for all people, but you simply never know what will happend. You can experience even as if energy can't move in some places and it will require some movements to move it. Don't want to scarry you and I advice you to don't let fears take over you, but as I said - try to find someone who can help with energetic transformation. I don't know if you have already noticed but This stuff does not like resistance

When this mudra came to me naturally, the meaning was - the more dominant (better to say, one that is connected to the heart better way) carries about the other hand. When I started to meditate and I did not know which hand where I was putting my right over left, and at that time my left was dominant, then after some time my right hand started to be "dominant" and once durring the meditation the right hand just tooked the left in this position very naturally

Don't want to make you feel bad, but it looks like too much imagination going on, and assumptions follow. At best it can just lead to inpropper oppening and energy movement through the wrong channel. Maybe some revealing of energy going on from some chakras, so they give temporary effects that looks pleasurable and cool, but leads to nowhere. The back is a point that can be related to different kinds of fear. we usually contract our upper back area when we are afraid or in dangers of any sort, even psychollogical. transcending subconscious mind leads through different fears also.... and it is the first thing to do, the best way with a teacher that can show the oppening of it...

Beutifull what you say. What your body acts like? What do you mean by acting? unpredictable movements or the energy moving inside, or tissues moving, or something going on with your breath? I would say that the guide in your case should be someone who is fully enlightened, and also someone who teaches about energetical transformations. But thats up to you where you will go. I just feel you could simply educate yourself about this bussiness . Body often changes its structures when after awakening and in order to do it, needs to change some patterns of movements, breath and hormmonal reactions. So sometimes some parts of the body needs to be locked in different positions, sometimes breath is suspending, air going int your stomach, you might feel even as if bones will break in the moment etc. sometimes we just need to surender to it. Do you fall in meditation spontaneously? I don't know my poin't but I know what you mean about the anger I saw the link. The Subconscious mind is a low level consciousness of a human, it is something to transcend and.