EFS White

20 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Have you gently and openly said something like, "I sense you are feeling overwhelmed and frustrated. What can I do to help?"

Thank you for chiming in here, I appreciate it.

I did, more than once, as a matter of fact, and I am really bending over backwards here to take over as many chores as I can. I am also going for long walks with our baby to make sure she has time to herself in order to relax or just do whatever.

I think the things you prescribe are all sound, and it may all just be a matter of hanging in there.

Thanks again for your input.

 

1 hour ago, BluLotus said:

 

Of course, you're having these desires. You're human and it's instinctual for (straight) men to be attracted to women.  If you aren't getting ANY sex from your wife, it's only natural that your desire for other women will increase. That doesn't mean you should run out and have sex with other women, or demand that your wife have sex with you when she doesn't want to, but you can stop feeling guilty or disturbed by it. Your desire is your soul's way of letting you know that you need sex and you can't go on suffering alone, trying to suppress your desires. That isn't being kind to yourself.

 

Your wife is suffering too. Judging from your description, it's possible that she suffers with possible postpartum depression, which is common after the birth of a child.  Also, sex is not pleasurable when it's painful, and it sounds like she might have internal injuries. It's not your fault, and it's not her fault either, and I am pretty sure she's not happy or fulfilled either. Try to get the practical help from doctors and psychologists/therapists that you need. Spiritual cultivation, (as a way to try and solve these problems), is like trying to put a band aid on skin cancer and hoping it will just go away.

 

That is my two cents. I hope it doesn't sound too harsh or scary, but it's my honest opinion. Saying anything else would just be encouraging you to continue to live in this very depressing, miserable situation, and I would like to see you resolve it and be happy with your wife and your son. Congrats, by the way. I'm sure he's a beautiful boy.

Thanks a lot for your two cents. It doesn't at all sound harsh or scary.

I think the more I meditate on this, the more I reach a similar conclusion as to what your first paragraph stated: It is perfectly natural to be attracted to women, and the less sexual relations we have within our relationship, it seems only logical that I become more responsive to other women again.

We have gone to see two gynecologist so far, and neither of them was particularily helpful. It was more along the lines of, "yeah, we can tell you which pubic bone is causing the pain" - and other than that, "for most women this pain should go away within one year after birth, for some it never goes away". So not very encouraging.

It seems waiting for this pain to subside and waiting for her hormones to recover will be our preferred options here, for as you say "sex is not pleasurable when it's painful", and - I might add - if she just doesn't feel like it.

Thanks again for expressing your thoughts and your encouragements.

 

Thank you for your input, Nungali.

The transition into parenthood is actually something I feel quite ready for, and one that I very much welcome. I have never been a party person and I do not feel like I have to learn to give up anything such as drinking and partying, as I have never found any meaning in that anyway.

I love this aspect of your post a lot:

Quote

I dont know what school of gnostic 'tantra' you are practising , but in the schools ( old school, not modern  )  I am familiar with , the END of such practices are to bring about more enlightened children into the world - to improve the world . If thats the case , then one's 'cultivation' moves to the next stage , supporting and nurturing your creation .

I appreciate that perspective of looking at my little boy as a next stage of cultivation. That is just beautiful. Thank you.

17 hours ago, ralis said:

 

How do you define lust? Is your concept of lust an indoctrination which is expressed as repression from a religious authoritarian source? Guilt, shame?

 

There is nothing wrong with having emotions/feelings, but how one expresses these particular forces. Sexual/emotional suppression will result in any number of expressions........

 

Humans are the result of evolutionary forces which started around 3.4 billion years ago.

 

 

I appreciate your input and impulse to think about me definitions here.

I am not affiliated with a religious institution but rather have explored and built my own metaphysical understanding over the years from varied sources.

Lust, to me, is an undue attachment to sensual pleasure or desire for such pleasures that distracts me from the goal of my inner work, which is to work towards purification and ultimately union with divinity. More precisely it is episodes of unruly sexual fantasy about women and the urge to have sex / masturbate / ejaculate.

I have actually spend quite a few hours meditation on this whole issue last night, and I was reminded on wisdom drawn from the Bhagavad Gita, that indeed these lustful impulses are "just nature attaching to nature". So that is one way I can look at it and be okay with the impulses themselves, knowing that as long as I experience this physical existence my sense will enjoy and long for objects of the senses.

I guess what bothers me is to see how these sexual desires creep into my mind sometimes, trying to steer me away from my spiritual convictions.

 

18 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

May I ask - what does your partner think about this - is she happy about the no-sex and more so is she happy generally?  Big hormone changes are a massive thing and can knock you for six.

 

 

Thank you for your questions.

My partner says she is fine with not having sex right now, as she doesn't really feel in the mood for anything to do with sex at the moment, plus experiencing pain from it, due to an injury obviously sustained during the C-section procedure, which unfortunately was medically necessary for us.

I would not assess her to be "happy generally", even though our lives are really going great right now. As I have stated above, obviously she has to shoulder the greater part of taking care of our baby boy (due to breastfeeding and me working) and she states that she feels very much overwhelmed by these new responsibilities at times. To me she often seems angry, irritable and pessimistic in a way that doesn't correspond with our actual life situation.

19 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

To me, this feels like a productive line of inquiry.  A new baby boy -- wow, what a potent transitional period. I wouldn`t look at the erotic feelings you are having as some sort of problem that you have to deal with alone, through spiritual practice or by any other means: you and your partner are taking this journey through shifting sexual wants/needs together. It`s not that either of you are wrong.  You are not wrong if you feel lustful; your partner is not wrong if she doesn`t.  Rather, this seeming problem is really an invitation to doing the "dual cultivation" of digging deep into the roots of your togetherness.  Out of this process a stronger bond could emerge. 

I greatly appreciate your answer and input, thank you.

I wholeheartedly agree that having a child is a potent transitional period, and I am actually thrilled at the prospect of growing into this new role as parents.

While my partner and I can very well agree to have this discrepancy in our sexual needs for the time being, what really stresses me about my lustful episodes is that they are not always directed towards my partner.

So to be clear: It is not simply me feeling lustful that bothers me. What bothers and concerns me is a new flaring up of sexual desire and sexual fantasy with other women I encounter. This is something I would love to overcome and frankly just be rid of, and I had dearly hope that as a father I wouldn't have to struggle with this again.
 

19 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

This helps to clarify the present situation immensely. Some more questions if you don't mind:

 

Is your wife following a similar path, and does she understand you still wish intimacy?

 

What efforts have you made to help enable her to reach the place within to express and experience this intimacy with you?

 

Are there still the tender touches, smiles, and moments of simple connection between you two throughout the day?

Thank you for your input, and for bringing a few more questions to my attention.

We regularly talk about my desire for intimacy, and she is open about her just not being in the mood for anything sexual, which we agree is most certainly still due to hormonal changes due to breastfeeding etc. Additionally, we suspect that she sustained an injury from the C-section procedure, as she experiences pain from the first moment of penetration. So that certainly doesn't help either.

While we are compatible in our metaphysical worldviews she is not actively pursuing a spiritual practice regimen, but she knows my stance and practice in regards to meditation, inner work, and dual cultivation (including non-ejaculatory sex, although she will usually orgasm).

The tender touches etc. are still there. Of course a lot has changed due to our baby boy. And while these are more than welcome changes, I get a sense that my partner sometimes feels quite overwhelmed, and regularly is in a very bad, frustrated or angry mood.




 

On 20.1.2020 at 12:48 AM, BluLotus said:

One would need a bit more information in order to answer your question. Do you have vows of celibacy?

Thank you for your post.

I did not take an official vow of celibacy. However, I am following a gnostic cultivation tradition that proposes not to ejaculate and not to fornicate but does strongly advise dual cultivation with one's spouse.
 

As you said a bit more information might be needed to properly answer my question, so long story short:

Ever since the birth of our baby boy (and really before that during pregnancy) my partner and I stopped having sex altogether - due to pain issues mostly, plus my partner not really feeling in the mood. So this, say, 'involuntary abstinence' has been going on for about ten months now and doesn't jibe too well with my dual cultivation ideal.

Now over the course of the last few months I have noticed recurring episodes of severe lust and sexual fantasy, which I really thought and hoped I had moved past.

Anyway, so that's that.

Nungali,

thanks very much for taking the time to offer your insights. Obviously what you wrote wasn't quite in line with what I hoped for, but I feel it's very valuable food for thought and critical assessment of the concept. So thank you.

I have asked for your guys' opinion about this before, but as it poses as recurring problem for me, I would like to reach out to you again.

I feel like I am very susceptible to sexual triggers and lustful sentiments; more so than I feel is good for me.

The kind of cultivation I am practicing advises to transmute sexual energy and shun desire and wayward lustful thoughts.

Aside from breathing exercises what has worked best for you guys here?

I appreciate your answers.

Itˋs been a while since I read Bill Bodriˋs "Little Book of Hercules", and I remember I quite enjoyed it, even if at times his writing feels quite redundant and at other times not quite clear enough.

I have been compelled by my intuition to revisit the Herculean myth recently, and I thought I might give this forum a try for that.

I find the notion, as presented in Bodriˋs book, quite appealing, that the twelve labors of Hercules are in fact stages of cultivation. Does anyone of you readers and contributors here have any information that would substantiate this interpretation of the Hercules myth? Better yet: Does anyone have practical experience with a cultivation along the lines of the labors of Hercules?

I am asking, as I have been repeatedly compelled to turn to / return to this topic, and I would greatly appreciate practical input from a cultivator in that tradition and / or some words of clarification or encouragement from someone who has worked along this path.

If anyone feels compelled, please do drop me a personal message or respond to this thread.

Thank you.

Lifeforce, thank you again for sharing your thoughts and personal experiences on this process.

Like I had stated, I was intrigued to try it and - for anyone interested - I am back here now to give my personal account, which will be rather brief.

According to the lunar calender provided above, I had calculated Monday at a little after noon to be the moment of the moon entering my astrological birth sign. I kept an open and watchful attitude to see if I could noticed any changes in my body, energy, psychology or otherwise. Unfortunately I cannot attest to anything out of the ordinary taking place in the span of these last two days now. As for physical discomfort I had a minor headache about 18 hours after the process was due to start -- however, I get headaches quite frequently and this was nothing out of the ordinary either. Then last night, so about 30 odd hours after the process was due to begin, I developed a sore throat for no apparent reason. But again: nothing that would seem related to this process.

Bottom line: I do not feel I was able to experience anything out of the ordinary, which bums me a little bit.

I am very open to suggestions as to what I may have done wrong, and will certainly give it another try next month.

I have one more question, if possibly you know the answer to this:
What exactly happens with the 'sacred secretion' after these couple of days? What happens when you stay in that mindful, celibate and pure place for longer than that particular moon phase; what's your experience?

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Using the website you have recommended, I calculated the lunar calender for my area and star sign, and according to the information provided, the Sacred Secretion process for me is set to begin at around noon next Monday (the 15th).

Like I had stated, I have come across this information several times before, but I definitely do appreciate you putting it back on the map for me. I will keep an open mind to see if similar effects and results to yours will manifest in my experience of this process.

Cool, I'll be sure to check what you have to report. I'll have to figure out 'my time' (which I think will be some time around the middle of April), and then want give this a try as well.

Good luck!

Thank you for sharing that thought. It appears to me a deeply wonderous and puzzling, while also deeply true axiom, and it certainly does resonate with me.

I came across a manual describing the teachings, and touting the benefits of Falun Dafa / Falun Gong and thought it sounded like a very intriguing branch of cultivation practice.

If anyone has worked with this approach I would greatly appreciate to hear your opinion on this path and methodology, and any additional resources you can point me to.

If also anyone may offer further insight as to the "Falun" and its activation, I'll appreciate your input. Is it possible to create (?) and activate (?) the Falun in solitary study and cultivation training?

My best regards!

Awesome, thank you.

Thank you for posting this, I greatly appreciate it. And if you don't mind, please continue describing and reporting your journey with this teaching.

I have come across videos of Santos Bonacci (Mr. Astrotheology) years ago, [and more recently the guy on the YouTube channel you linked, John St Julien Baba Wanyama], talking extensively about such a thing as a sacred secretion.

Indeed, I feel this teaching chimes very well with many sources I have studied, while of course being much more explicit than any of the more allegorical, metaphorical or symbolic sources I usually gleaned this from.

If you or anyone can further specify one detail for me, I would greatly appreciate it:

You write "Once a month, when the moon enters your birth astrological star sign"; does this, then, imply one's solar sign or lunar sign?

Thank you all for your thoughts.


@Taoist Texts

I did read the "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality" book, and your rendition of what this means as related to my experience seems quite compelling. Thank you. Even while the experience was unfolding I suspected that there must be a meaning behind this behind "only" a semi-circle and that only a full-circle would indicate the completion of a particular stage of the cultivation process.

I do not have the book at my disposal at this moment, but I seem to remember that it is advised to do something very specific once this light becomes visible. Do you remember?

What astounds me is the fact that the phenomenon just seems to come out of nowhere, and without any indication of whether or when it may happen again.

--

As the suggestion of a migraine / aura has come up several times: I do not insist on this being a cultivation phenomenon, and if it was merely an aura I can perfectly accept that. The only thing I find to be curious is that in my almost 38 years of age this is only the second time, and within 9 months, that I have experienced something like this. If it were related to a migraine I would expect to have experienced it more often by now, would you agree?

--

At any rate, thank you for your contributions. 

Thank you.

Just for sakes of debriefing: 

This odd light lasted for a little over an hour yesterday, and vanished very suddenly. I did continue with my breathing exercises and applying non-attachment. Thank you for your input, good to know others have experienced this as well.

Dear Community,

for the second time in my life I am experiencing a strange light phenomenon. It has happened once last spring, and is happening again right now as I am typing this. Last time it lasted for about three hours; right now it has been going on for about twenty minutes.

Let me describe:

With eyes open as well as with eyes closed I see a jittery left-hand semi-circle, flashing about 7 times per second in rainbow colors. The phenomenon started out as a centered light and its radius has now gradually expanded to where the edge of this thin circle has reached the edge of my field of vision. I do not experience any headaches or other discomfort.

Just like the last time this has happened, I am currently in a prolonged stretch of cultivation practice, celibacy, stillness meditation and breathing techniques -- which is why I am wondering whether or not this might be an important (?) stage or significant moment (?) of the cultivation progression.

I know this is a dumb question but... is there anything particular I need to be doing right now?

Thank you for input and / or sharing your experience.

(Yeah, or maybe I am just having a stroke or something...)

Bump.

(Love this thread, especially the book recommendations. Thank you. )

Just to let everyone, and you commentators in particular, know: I am buried in work right now and will have to postpone my further research of this topic. I am hoping to resume this thread some time next week.

Thanks to everyone keeping this discussion alive and interesting.

--

@FraterUFA
 

 

Nonetheless, I do strongly believe that "subjective synthesis" is all we have, here.

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

Well, yeah, I am really glad you came back later when you had more time for a more elaborate response. Above statement, even if you are right, is not very instructive or well-argued. If you examine how you have attained everything you think you know and everything you believe in, do you not find that everything had, if it something you consciously believe in at some point to be passed by your internal BS-filter? Deciding whether x is something you do indeed or do not believe. Is it merely a misunderstanding of words or does that sound like a subjective assessment and re-composition? Hence, "subjective synthesis"?
 

Sunday and Monday - The Sun and Moon

Tuesday - A battle

Wednesday - "wedness" day, the day of the wedding. In French, Mercredi, the root of which is Mer, which means "sea"

Thursday - Thors day, Thunder

Friday - The day of the feast

Saturday - The day of rest, the completion of the work.

(...) there are two crosses (Taus) and two serpents in there as well.

SMTWTFS

This input of yours is very intriguing. If we assume "Wednesday" as the day of the (alchemical) wedding, union of opposites, it indeed is interpretable as a sort of mirror for the week: with two "s"-s at either end of the scale, then "m" (Monday) and "f" (Friday), which I would love to read as masculine and feminine -- which however doesn't correspond very well with the assumption that the moon is more of a female energy. However, one could consider the Moon and Freia (Venus) days as the feminine, and the two crosses (Tyr and Thor) as the two masculine days. So yeah, makes for a nice mirroring. And I do find it more than intriguing to thereby "oppose" the Sun and Saturn (the black sun) at two ends of the spectrum. Hmm. Very interesting indeed.

--

@noonespecial

On subjective synthesis; this does not mean no-thing is objective, it is fancy speak for saying, 'stick with one system and use it,' this forms a baseline standard on which to perform esoteric experimentation.

 

On the 72 -

 

From what I've gathered both through reading, experience and a bit of intuition - is that all of 'this' relates to time, which relates to space, which relate to death and generation (ie. the enemy, the devil is directly equated with death in early church literature, Origen, Augustine, etc). So then the 72 are the subangles of the 12. The quote from Jesus is interesting because the gnostic saw these entities as the enemy, the masters of time, where as in the European extract of hermeticism we tend to entertain these beings as deities, even as gods to be worshiped without making a solid cosmological decision as to their nature.

So, well, I must have interpreted this term wrongly. But thank you for clariying your point of view on this. Possibly, however, we are not as far apart in interpreting this terminology. I agree, the way I see it there are most certainly objective realities out there. The reason the term had appealed to me is that I believe as human beings it is extremely difficult to be truly "objective", as everything is filtered first by who we are. I find it very interesting that these aspects become so apparent in scientific work as well, where no matter how professional and methodical someone tries to be very often we do see that scientists do bring a bias to their work, that distorts whatever "objective reality" they are trying to investigate through their subjective lenses.

As for the 72 -- hm, I guess what's difficult for me is that I would like to trace back how this number originated to its position of prominence in so many traditions, and what underlying "objective reality" there is that made people recognize this phenomenon. At times mysteries and their neverending veils and riddles truly drive me nuts.

Anyway, thanks for the input. I hope one day it will start to make more sense to me.

--

@FraterUFA
 

Again, thank you for taking the time for a more in-depth commentary.

Assuming this is true, the existence of an authentic teaching of the chakras has no bearing on the existence of a fully active Western tradition, one which has transmitted its current from teacher to student for many centuries. A tradition that I can assure you, does not require interpretation via the aid of outside sources.

I agree, it could be wise to view these traditions as parallel and mutually exclusive as to avoid confusion. My study started out predominantly in the Eastern mysteries, and then it appeared to me that Western Alchemical traditions (and others) could be talking about the exact same thing -- especially, for instance, in terms of internal cultivation, Daoist Neigong and the philosophy of lead-into-gold, the Philosopher's Stone etc.

Even if this assumption were not plainly wrong and there are indeed a few similarities, I do see how deciding exclusively for one mystery tradition has its advantages.
 

I don't see how it is a blessing. I submit that it contributes to the confusion and leads serious seekers astray. For instance, how many people believe that the alchemist's red and white are a veiled reference to Ida and Pingala? This is 100% wrong.

The fact that mystery traditions love cyphering their wisdom so that non-initiates will be unable to attain it seems that we do not need the additional confusion of even more traditions with even more veils and metaphors and symbolisms to block us from insight. The reason I see it as a blessing is that I fundamentally do not like when information is controlled via one institution, as this might just put -- as it has more than once throughout history -- these guardians of information in an undue position of power over others. Secondly, I see this availability of information from other cultures as a great benefit as the West, both in terms of economic reasoning as well as their scientific world-view seems to have adopted a very much mechanistic and quantitative view, and often all too easily ridicules notions outside of its own scope of comprehension, while the Eastern traditions (that's a blanket statement, I am aware) overall seem to allow for a more energetic and qualitative reasoning and view of the world.

I have been raised mostly against a protestant christian backdrop and along those lines I had never felt to have truly had access to an authentic spirituality. Hence for me it was a great benefit to seek and find Buddhist and Daoist literature in order to find my own entry to spirituality. In many way it seems that now, via this detour, I am understanding Christianity much better than before.
 

Who is this person who is advising us to approach the knowledge traditions with an open mind exactly?

 

The fact that he is referring to them as knowledge traditions tells me that he has not clue what he's talking about or he is intentionally messing with you.

 

I think "he" wants you to synthesize these traditions so that you never figure out who "he" is.

I personally do not think of this in terms of a person, no matter how interesting that proposition is you are making. The way you are framing the argument here is the make it seem that some Satan (opposer) is well aware of "the truth" but deliberately pulls a fruit-of-the-tree-of-knowledge kind of number on us in order to confuse us and lead us astray.

But I suggest that this quite depends on the reason why one wants to uncover the mysteries. Is it for power and self-serving? Or is it because some of us share a feeling that there is more to life and we want to learn our true place in this world?

I can well see how people will flock to the occult in hopes to attain magical power to dominate others and fulfill all their desires. Well, I find that the more I strive to learn and understand the occult, there more it humbles me and puts everything in perspective.
 

I think at this point you should be asking yourself what your motivation is in comparing the teachings of the church with Daoism. These two traditions are mutually exclusive.

Can you tell me how you know they are mutually exclusive? I have come across someone's research who had tracked back the importance of the numbers 7 and 14 to the Egyptian mystery traditions and claims to have found that the Egyptians believed there were 7 invisible forces (each with two polarities) that were affecting human beings. Which is simply a notion that seems to have appeared time and again, when for instance learning of the Daoist 7 corporeal souls, the 7 deadly sins, the 7 adventures of Sinbad etc. I haven't had the time to have a look at it, but supposedly the Book of Bahir is another source that claims to underline the import and meaning of the number 7.

What is my motivation? I want to understand. I believe that wisdom traditions are man's attempt to ever pass on what they have learned and acquired during their lifetimes to be true of the world around them. Can I fully explain my motivation for that? Probably not, as for all I can tell it has always been with me, from childhood on. But to the best of my ability I would say it is about the feeling that there is more to this world and this life and I want to try my best to find answers and truth.

+++ will expand later, gotta go +++