Ormus

Is Sundo real Daoist school? Does they teach Nei Dan or only Dao Yin Shu? Ormus

It is funny how this David invent new names for school to hide his source and to be able to ask huge money for new exotic fake master. Ormus

I belive you. Ormus

Yes I have and read this book. Mo Pai looks like mix of Chan Buddhism from Shaolin with Tenaga Dalam(Tridaya) Nei Gong. Ormus

Are they are Chinese at all? Some paintings of Immortals looks realy diferent from Chinese. Ormus

How sitting meditation can be Ming Gong advocated by Nanzong Pai? Ormus

Dear Awaken, thank you for reply.I know Yi Jin Jing and I have his video. I am sorry I am not rich to be able to support Monastery. Ormus

This is amasing if Master Yan Xin can do it all with Qi Gong. I like to see what have to say Nei Dan Masters about this and if some of them have such powers? Ormus

Dear Awaken, is he Patriarch of Nanzong Pai in lineage of Zhang Boduan? According to you is he real Nei Dan Master? I find him interesteding and I hear a lot good words about him. Ormus

You see, again when you faced with contradiction you try to play funny games.Fallacy is that you choose from 8 Immortals who is folkore who is real again only to suit your twisted agenda.If Lu Dong Bin exsisted why Iron Li didnt?You fall in your contradition and now you try to rescue yourself with double standard trick.I am sure people here on the forum are to recognise this. Yes Ma Danyang was bald and grey and you have painting,in those times there where no photos.Again when you are faced with fact you ask for more clues.Do you have maybe his photo or painting where he is not bald and grey?You see you cant place all in artist imagination and folklore because you dont like it and because this contradict you ideas,dreams or program of your school. Regarding source about history of Nei Dan schools you can find it many online Fabrizio Pregadio,Lowell Skar,Farzeen Baldrian Hussein,Livia Cohn,Isabelle Robinet,Xin Liu,Monica Esposito,Elena Valussi.It is not mystery and there is exact and precise hronology with dates and explanations about formation of Nei Dan and what is considered to be proto-Nei Dan for each school. Ormus

If Iron Crutch Li is folklore then all 8 famous Immortals are folklore and among them are Zhongli Quan and Lu Dong Bin,which make foundation Masters in place of just folklore and then we cant use Zhong Lu corpus of Nei Dan as real but fancy papers from realm of folklore. Iron Crutch Li story is full story of real Alchemy and secret method of Shijie for those who can recognise. Regarding Ge Hong works I refere to 2 books of Robert Ford Campany. You see you whant to exclude bald and grey Lao Tze.You cant use some and exclude others to suit your agenda.He is not only one......remember founder of your Yu Xian Pai, Immortal Master Ma Danyang was bald and grey.Is he also from realm of folklore?Did you need to mention others?How many of them? Religious Daoism is older then Nei Dan some 1000+ years.Look when Tian Shi Pai and Shang Qing Pai are formed and look that first nei dan school Nanzong Pai is formed in XI-XII century.So I dont know how your calculation goes. Ormus

LaoZiDao, please remember that Immortals can change not only name but also how they look.According to signs you mention Immortal Master Lao Tze(Tai Shang Lao Jun) is not Immortal as he is all gray and bald. Please read hagiografies of Immortals by master Ge Hong to see how Immortals can look and what are real signs.On some privous topic I mention one secret indication which canont be faked. Iron Cruch Lee is interesting case..... Ormus

Dear LaoZiDao, 1.According to which classic source he dont look like Immortal?Can you show us some other photo of real Immortal? 2.As I know you are Longmen Pai who started to study under WLP-YXP.But If I am wrong I am sorry. 3.I dont know Chinese,can you write on English what is his real name? Are you sure that he is not Master Liu?Did you hear that Immortals change names for several times? I didnt have fantasy I just think about website posted here and there is this info. Can you provide link from which you bring photos? Ormus

Dear Lao ZiDao, thank you in advance. I mention WLP members because you are the one and you express scepticism that this person can be Master Liu Huayang. I am not member of WLP but respect the school and its doctrine about Immortality.So if we belive that Master Liu Huayang realised Yang Shen then it is not strange that he can materialise his body and agree that others make photos with him.On this photos we see him in Chan Buddhistic robes and among Chan monks which is also in accordance with his past.The same website show other Chan Masters and text describe their inner cultivation. Ormus

Ok maybe it is bs.But please provide the link from which you post the photos. I belive in Immortals and dont know why Wu Liu Pai members are so sceptical? He cant be proclaimed impostor or bs until it is proven to be guilty of fraud. Ormus p.s.Can someone other find the link from which this photos are taken?

Dear LaoZiDao, can you provide source link for photos you posted? It looks like Liu Huayang from privous website. Ormus

Famous Nei Dan Master Chen Zhixu clearly say it is female organ Gate of Birth.Yes I know this is herectic but this is position of paired cultivation Yin Yang Xing Ming Shuang Xiu and all theories proposed here come from solo cultivation Qingxiu so the diference. Master Chen was Nanzong Pai and Yu Xian Pai...check for his excellent works. Ormus

Is this website realy somehow related to Wu Liu Pai in China? http://www.dycndg.com/ I see they show photos of Masters Liu Huayang and Wu Shouyang. Looks like the owner of website visited all mayor Nei Dan schools in China and have photos with many famous Masters. There is no name of owner nor his e-mail but all is highly interesting! Ormus

Ming Gong is important and it come from Nanzong Pai of Master Zhang Boduan.Quanzhen didnt have it as full transmission and because of this they worked Xing Gong.Much later Quanzhen invented their evrsion of Ming Gong and say that you need to work first Xing and with realisation of it ming is accomplished.This state foudner Master Wang Chongyang and also Master Ma Danyang founder of Yu Xian Pai.What is strange Master Wang in early Quazhen writing dont mention Nei Dan and along with Jing and Qi he mentions blood and not Shen.From it is clear that he didnt have full transmission and he totaly neglected Nei Dan and also Wai Dan as was the case of Longmen Pai Patriarch Master Wang Changyue who in reality created modern Longmen Pai(I hear that he is one of the Masters of Master Wu Shouyang putative founder of Wu Liu Pai).Master Wang Changyou infused Buddhism in Longmen and modeled it on Vinaya linage with 3 Vechiles and much precepts.How he then passed Nei Dan and Wai Dan is realy big mystery and contradition from official documents of Longmen Pai as Monica Esposito uncovered. Secret of the Golden Flower belong precisluy to Jing Ming Dao school and is recived by spirit writing-planchette.Much later Longmen Pai revised and start to claim it is their books because Master Lu Dong Bin is one of the founding fathers and Patriarch of lineage.This book say it is complete and advocate Xing Gong and when you realised it you got Ming Gong int his moment.But we must to know that this book have 6 versions and some are so diferent,who knows how original looked like. There is one Qi Gong method which have real Ming Gong and it is Zhi Neng Qi Gong.Master Pang Ming recived secret Ming Gong and incorporated it in his system but never metion it as such.It is easy and realy powerfull. Ormus

To moderators Just now I recive as mail notification from Dao Bums forum that new topic is posted by member Daeluin under topic name New in Posted in Wéi Wú Wéi - 為無為. When I clikck the link it open http://staging.thedaobums.com/profile/545-daeluin/ and information that forum dont work and that I need to give my user name and password. The Dao Bums The Dao Bums is currently unavailable <span style="font-family: courier new" ,="" courier,="" monospace'="">offline. be back in a minute. This mail come from address:The Dao Bums <[email protected]> I didnt join.And I supose this is hacking.Please check it. Ormus The

Interesting topic.Is he Patriarch of Nanzong Pai or lineage holder of some sub-branch? Can you share something more about his western ceneters and students? Ormus

Because this term of sudden enlightenment is mentioned by me in one of privious treads I see now new topic about this.Good. First to me i strange that Master AA.Khokhlov ask that we use Daoist terms and not Buddhist.Why strange?Because Wu Liu Pai is actualy mix of Daoist and Buddhist tradition and actualy all Quanzhen including Yu Xian Pai along with Daoism and Buddhism include Confucianism.Not to mention that putative founder of the WLP Master Wu Shouyang and later Master Liu Huayang(himself Chan Buddhist) used and write about the same goal and path of Daoism and Buddhism.Normaly they speak about early Buddhism before VI Chan Patriarch but again it is Buddhism.WLP is know as Xian Fo Pai,school of Immortals and Buddhas.So what is wrong with Buddha and Buddhism? I myself prefer Daoism and I think it is older then Buddhism and maybe even Buddhism is founded by Daoist.But still I respect Buddhism as path even if they today maybe dont have real Ming Gong. My friend Fabrizio Pregadio write in his encyclopedia on topic Liu Huayang that after putative teaching he recived from Master Wu he still searched and later he have chance to me one Chan Master(I forgot his name) who give him finnal transmission for realisation of Xianhood.What about this info? Dont forgett that oldest Daoist schools like Shang Qing Pai have influnce of Buddhism in them and not to mention Ling Bao Pai which is much influenced by Buddhism and jet this 2 schools corpus is recognised as highest and superior teachings on all Daozhang and are part of highest ordination level 1 which Master Michael Saso write about. And last see Icon of all Nei Dan, Master Zhang Boduan.He himself started as Confucian and later become Daoist,but when he write his Wuzhen Pian he used Chan Buddhist text and poems to describe Xing Gong and also Sudden Enlightment.He say he didnt find better words and text then this from Chan Buddhism.There is later legend that at the end of his life he become Chan Buddhist.I say this even if I think that most superior of all Nei Dan schools is his Nanzong Pai. Master AAKhokhlov criticise one member here why he used Confucian terms and not anyone whant to mention that actualy Xing and Ming we all use here are Confucian terms.How about that? Then Taoist Text is criticised when he clearly provide link from Daoist Encyclopedia which clearly show that Patriarch Master of Nanzong Pai legendary Bai Yuchan speak about sudden elightenment and he speak this because this are teachings of Master Zhang Boduan.I am not advocate of Taoist text nor other not named person but I am on the side of truth. Actualy I have long years of conversation and communication with members of Wu Liu Pai and consider them as friends and Wu Liu Pai as good school.So consider this before fire is directed toward me. Damdao as student of WLP and YXP even claim that Enlightement dont exsist in Daoism which is simply not true and negate innate capacity of Xing(Yuan Shen) which is the same in all.Enlightement exsist in all religions and all paths and this is simple truth! Patriarch Master of Longmen Pai Liu I Ming and Patriarch Master of Nanzong Pai Bai Yuchan speak of Sudden Englightment and I realy dont know why we argue further.Or maybe they are not big authority.If they are not I like to see some original source from Daozhang which say that Enlightenment dont exsist in Daoism be it sudden or not?If there is no such source then this is just personal claim or expirience.To point also towards Master Chen Zhixu who you are to be suprised was Master of both Yu Xian Pai and Nanzong Pai and he speak that he was Enlightened when he even just hear the words and explanations of his Master. Enlightenment include Awareness and Understanding and it is Awakened state of Non Duality.To be Enlightened means that you know your Xing(Yuan Shen) and that you see your True Face like in Buddhism. What is important is to know that to be Enlightened dont means that you are Tian Xian. Just to point to work Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji as book transsmited by spirit writing(mediumship) someone mentioned it here.This is known fact as it is the case for the book Secret of the Golden Flower atributed to Master Lu Dong Bin,not to mention many famous books from Nanzong Pai corpus which is alegedly channeled by Zhang Boduan after his death and that almost complete Nu Dan(Female Alchemy) corpus is recive by spirit mediums.I mention this because this book of Zhongli Quan was OP for one topic which give rise here for flame wars.I find one work for example which clearly criticise Zhong Lu corpus and give much talk about why this is not writen by Zhongli Quan and Lu Dong Bin themselfs so of dubious origin.To whom to belive chanelled spirits,mediums from cults like Shamans(Wu) or to living Masters? One member posted here part of Wang Li Ping book which show how Longmen used Wai Dan(laboratory elixir) method.Clearly it is not real Elixir because from description he have mercury poisoning and real Elixir dont use ordinary mercury in Wai Dan.This rise much questions.......does Longmen Pai dont trust in Nei Dan and need to use help from Wai Dan?Whay Longmen Pai "Immortal" Masters dont know that for real Elixir native mercury is not used?Did they at all have complete transmission of both Nei Dan and Wai Dan?Think about it........ Ormus

Thank you for reply. What is considered Ming Gong in Zhong Pai? Regarding meditation did they use Zuowang or Jingzuo? Ormus

Yes official story say that Master Wu was Longmen Pai.But as you see today WLP members dont like to compare themselfs with Longmen and say that their practice is diferent and more advanced.I agree that it is diferent.And from reading Master Liu I Ming it is clear that he have totaly diferent understanding of the practice and he was Patriarch Master of Longmen Pai. Ormus

Good tread as privious one. Does Zhong Pai start with sitting metitation to build foundation? Did it start first with Ming Gong or Xing Gong? How looks Ming Gong? Ormus