LaoZiDao

Whether it's true or not, I can't help but be drawn to this consideration: he provides a fairly complete and direct thing to experiment with; you seem to really only provide the seeds of doubt.

 

After near 50 pages, by the content, we're not too far from where things began....That, to me, seems unnecessarily roundabout.

 

....This will probably get the perennial "neidan is a comoplex science; it is detailed to the point that meaningful instruction cannot be transmitted over the internet; but, we're open and want to spread the understanding and offer help...."

 

---No severe offense is intended but there does seem to be something out of sorts here.

 

 

I've never tried to discuss methods, and the OP is not discussing methods either, only discuss scriptures and theory - which is all that can realistically be spoken about in a on-line forum. Not many seem to get the fact that there is no methods in texts, despite many times having much proof presented, so that is why discussions don't get far.

 

I provide doubt because there is a lot of doubt in what's being said. And this can be backed up by using texts, and has been done several times on TTB. But many people here don't even want to discuss texts and think they are more experienced and have more valuable things to say then Masters of Quanzhen Schools.

 

JinlianPai, it is a complex science. Methods are generally simple and not complicated, but theory and entire knowledge of all universal processes is not 'simple' and you cannot get true understanding from flowing with the flow and reading Wikipedia pages, and expect to have complete understanding life and death. Daoists accept true methods and nothing more, Daoist crush false schools to preserve genuine Daoist teachings. Being a Daoist is not about being soft and accepting of all things, especially at the cost of corrupting Daoist teachings. It is about standing for truth, and discarding all that does not assist the way to heaven.

There's been several references to my comments so I will reply.

 

Bluemind stated that the super-secret Neidan school dude was "arguing" with me about what Taoist Yoga meant. I have argued plenty times before - like when I was in graduate school at the U of MN I argued with the General Counsel at the University - in nine meetings that took place over a year. I won the argument. The super-secret Neidan school quoting half-sentences from the Taoist Yoga book is not an "argument" and so I have to disagree with Bluemind. The super-secret Neidan school not only resorted to quoting half sentences - the examples were a half sentence about the penis standing erect, a half sentence about generative force, and a false reference to farting - all three of those examples were then lied about. The lie about the penis standing erect was that it meant energy had been lost. In fact the rest of that sentence said to gather the energy when the penis is erect. The lie about the generative force was again that energy had been lost when in fact the rest of the sentence says the generative force changes to fluid which is lost. And finally the secret-super Neidan school claimed that Taoist Yoga says farting causes loss of energy - in fact the book says that farting is fine but that shen can be lost out of the anus - so just be careful you are actually just passing gas and not shen. That is not so crazy - the same information is discussed in Bill Bodri and Master Nan, Huai-chin's tome, "Measuring Meditation."

 

So my question to Bluemind is - yes the super-secret Neidan school is super-secret but they have to resort to lying about other Neidan teachings. That is no longer super-secret.

 

O.K. so then someone else commented that if I am so focused on spirituality then why did I have to write "penis" so many times? That is a logical error. I didn't write "penis" so many times - I was quoting the Taoist Yoga book which writes penis so many times. See the difference? Now I have seen on the advertised Neigong Forum that they agree that celibacy in itself is not essential to the spiritual training. Again the Taoist Yoga book completely disproves this by detailing the physiological reasons of how jing is purified into qi energy and so it is stored up and without constant attention it can also then be deconverted back into fluid. So for the Neigong people to say - yeah Mopai says just don't practice alchemy until 3 days after sex - this is silly. As Taoist Yoga details - you have to store up your jing energy for at least 3 months just to start filling up the lower tan tien. So once you blow that stored up load - it will be a big blow of load that has been deconverted. You won't even know that unless you do the training. For example I went 6 months last year without ejaculation - so I know from experience how much energy is lost.

 

O.K. so - then also the super-secret Neidan school says yes qigong is o.k. to just restore your jing energy before you even start the "real" training. Wow - big news! (sarcasm). Again Taoist Yoga points this out in detail - there are different stages to the small universe practice. But the super-secret Neidan school thinks that 100 days of celibacy is enough (for immortality). What a joke! haha. Even the qigong courses also teach this 100 days foundation training. Yes before that the small universe is just building up "yin chi" and is not yet the "real" yang qi energy. Yes I know that most people never even reach the "yang qi" level. This is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi in Vedia Yoga and Vivekananda said the same thing - it is actually an advanced state that most people never reach but in actuality it is just the start of real meditation! I realize that qigong doesn't emphasize advance training - like I said Chunyi mentioned it once that I heard - saying no thoughts about sex are allowed for advanced training. That was in 2000. Obviously not many can hold that standard - just writing or talking about this subject goes against it. The real training is going to be done in silence in a purified environment. But then again - the real training is available for anyone who wants to do it.

 

O.K. so then ZOOM shared his enlightenment energy experience and said that I could probably quote from Taoist Yoga to confirm his experience. Indeed Taoist Yoga shares a similar experience of the person's face seemingly falling back into his head, down into his body, and then he experiences the Tai Chi. So Zoom though insists that Taoist Yoga teaches in the first chapter that the energy is somehow "shot down" to the lower tan tien. Zoom has made this claim several times but he has never quoted from Taoist Yoga to back up his claim. I urge him to do so - I have no idea what you are referring to Zoom.

 

In terms of the lower tan tien as the Cavity of Spirit-Vitality and the Cavity of Spirit as the heart expressed out of the eyes and the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality as the pineal gland - when we connect the latter two then the lower tan t'ien is created as a new energy center. So in your experience Zoom you say that the MING was pulled up to the upper tan t'ien based on the yang qi in the jing getting pulled out as a like-like principle - by focusing on the spirit light energy in the brain. So in Western science a good analogy for this is a laser that resonates based on frequency of light - so you create the same frequency and then there is a feedback as a harmonic oscillator and through resonance the laser builds up in amplitude intensity - the number of photons increase, just like pushing a swing, the increase in amplitude is from the timing of the pushing (or in this case the immutable thought that goes into the Emptiness as Taoist Yoga teaches). If the light is a higher frequency then the frequency energy intensity increases, etc. In terms of the lower tan t'ien - it is created out of the Cavity of Vitality which is below the abdomen. ZOOM referred to the lower tan t'ien as below the abdomen but in fact the lower tan t'ien is behind the abdomen. So the cavity of Vitality is the stored up yin jing energy that is ionized by the Cavity of Spirit fire descending - the yin chi converts the yin jing into yang jing or yin chi. This in turn is pulled up, yin chi, sublimated into the pineal gland as the Cavity of Prenatal Vitality which then turns it into yang chi as light energy - yin shen - which is seen internally in the brain. This, in turn, increases the spirit of the heart, the Cavity of Spirit - the yin shen, which in turn has more yin chi energy to better convert more of the yin jing energy into yang jing (yin chi). So that is the positive feedback loop of energy creation.

 

So that is the cycle of alchemy - how it works. So Zoom then referred to how other traditions just focus on light in the third eye as enough. This is true but the problem is that it can cause kundalini syndrome because too much energy stuck in the brain and Taoist Yoga even refers to this - saying when the qi rises up from the heart into the brain it causes too much energy for the person. This can work from the top down also - for example Poonjaji shot shakti energy into a young Western male - shakti being the shen laser energy - and the man was running around for a couple days in a manic state screaming that he was Jesus. That is detailed in the memoir of Poonjaji, Nothing Ever Happens. So after that Poonjaji did not use as much energy. The same thing has been described by the qigong master - when I told him how he made the center of my brain on fire - he said that back then (in 2003) he used to use a lot more energy but then the original qigong master told him not to use so much.

 

Whether Zoom had enough energy for his macro-psychokinetic experience - it is possible. My new blogpost describes the qigong master recently having some amazing macro-psychokinetic experiences. http://innersoundqigong.blogspot.com/2015/02/my-latest-greatest-with-qigong-master.html

 

But what we have to realize is that when these enlightenment experiences happen as a taste of what Taoist Yoga calls "positive spirit" - yang qi, yuan qi, yin shen energy - they in fact are a nondual experience that fills the body with strong electromagnetic energy and also moves the spirit out of the body. So the answer to this is to store the energy better in the lower tan tien. As the small universe practice focuses on - the lower tan tien is the safe store battery of the body and so for example in chapter 11 of Taoist Yoga it states that if your yin shen spirit leaves the body without enough yang qi enveloping it then this causes dizziness. I had this happen to me but at the time I didn't understand why - (the dizziness is actually a spacetime vortex) because I never thought I could experience something described so much later in the book. So I had not studied the book well enough that far along into it. haha.

 

So then readers of ZOOM's statement said yes but he needed to stabilize that experience - or as the super-secret Neidan school said about another person reporting the opening of their small universe channels - there needs to be a permanent transformation. This is true - it is true for whether it is qigong training or neidan training. Those are just terminologies - they don't change the actualities on the ground. As the original qigong master says - there first has to be a foundation built up in the lower tan tien - as the foundation for the higher frequency energy.

 

This stuff (the N/om of the belly as the fire hot electromagnetic snake energy) has been going on since the original human culture that all humans arise from - the Bushmen in Africa have a N/om snake energy statue that some date back to 70,000 BCE) - all the males were required to undergo the spiritual energy training and it is the same as the Neidan training. haha. But the thing to remember is that original the spiritual energy was used to heal the females. It's only that some males went off by themselves to store up their energy and by doing so developed the yang shen abilities - to shapeshift into lions, etc. So then the rest of the tribe became afraid of these males. Then from that origin, alchemy spread into Egypt from Ethiopia - but that is its original roots. It was picked up by Arabic culture based on the ancient Greeks studying in Egypt and then also it spread into India, China, etc. but obviously its original roots are in Africa. The point is that the energy development process starts from the Emptiness and ends in the Emptiness also - that is the nondual nature of it - it develops via the complementary opposite male-female principles expressed as body-mind transformation.

 

So sure we can all hope to learn from the super-secret Neidan school but information is not much use without practice. Since this is a forum it's based on information sharing but the Neidan school remains super-secret (except for their necessary lies about qigong and other Neidan teachings). For me personally - Emptiness is infinite energy - if someone is dependent on attacking others to put them down - in order to raise themselves up - this is by definition not a nondualist approach to reality as being a win-win infinite situation. Instead it's a typical materialist Western dualist approach to reality.

 

Against the Taoist Yoga book it's been said it contains a lot of practical information - but that on its own is nothing wrong. haha. People for the Neidan school have referenced the ancient Taoist teachers as the real lineage. This is true but then the Ch'an Buddhist debates with the Taoists record these differences which in fact are not really different - the nondualist foundation of the teaching remains and people can argue all they want about the fancy terms used in Chinese or whatever other language. haha. The Bushmen when they use their magical singing to induce the trance dance training - the words are almost always just mumbo-jumbo meaningless words. Chuang-Tzu makes this same point when he says that human language is no different than birds chirping or other animal noises that seem more or less meaningless to us humans. But as Taoist Yoga states - there is one type of dream that is real and not just a dream. Neidan can say that the small universe is fake - but the storing up of yin chi energy is measured by real results.

 

So the only real way to test the validity of the Taoist Yoga book is to try it out - practice it and see what happens. But then again the standards are very strict so success will be rare. Is it dangerous? I suppose - as I've reported I made the errors that are warned against in the book. But I only learned of those errors by going back to study the book more - despite seeking out advice from the qigong masters. They indeed help me though - more than the book - because the qigong master actually cleared out all the bad energy - the lower emotional yin jing energy blockages I had sucked in through my perineum from people over about 8 years experience. The Taoist Yoga book refers to this as "bad air" that is taken into the body. But the good news is that with continued practice and persistence then the errors can be fixed and improved upon. I am working to do so. I don't have any regrets but has it been dangerous? Yep - I accidentally pulled a lady's spirit out of the top of her head - without touching her - and she bawled nonstop for at least 15 minutes. As the qigong teaches - it is good, better and best - why? Because again we are working from the nondual reality as the foundation of the teaching - call it whatever fancy Neidan term you want. haha.

 

 

 

 

Terms exist for a reason, the same reason they exist in modern science. Very specific words to refer to very specific things. Neidan is a science, and like most science its complex. You can chirp like a bird and sing primitive tribal songs and come up with your own ideas and conclusions all you want. But until you understand anything about the Neidan tradition you have to humble down and step back a little. Not all that long ago your not even all that sure on details of what is Yuanjing, houtian, xiantian, their relationships etc. Now you're some kind of pseudo-master.

 

Many things you mentioned above are so far off from anything related to Neidan, yet you think it is the golden key based on your own interpretations. Its clear you have read a lot of materials, just not in the right way..

which leads to interpretation, which leads to speculation, which results in deviation.

 

Well said Astral Monk.

 

The Zhong Lü Chuan Dao Ji (鐘呂傳道集/钟吕传道集)

 

The Mo Pai use the "false method" (at least according to your quoted list of false methods).

 

Master Zhongliquan's list of false methods. You know, the teacher of Master Ludongbin, Ludongbin being the teacher of Wangchongyang.. the founder of the Quanzhen, teacher of 7 Masters? Not that they have any idea what they are talking about huh.

 

Or we can go with "facts"

 

"(based on my analysis and interpretation of the statements and instructions in The Secret Of The Golden Flower)" - ZOOM

 

RE moral decision...plants don't scream when they are chopped down. There is an obvious distinction between eating something that was once able to see and feel than corn from a field.

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities."

 

www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

 

 

Interesting as well:

"If you read, the book of Genesis, Ch. No. 9, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that 'They will fear you, they will dread you - all creatures of the earth, all fouls in the sky, all creatures that liveth on the earth, as well as all the fishes in the sea, they shall be delivered to you. Next Verse Genesis, Ch. 9, Verse 3 says that Every creature that moveth on land, and is a living creature - they are meat unto you, and also herbs and shrubs. Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 9, that Ye shall have the meat of all the things in the water - All that have fins and scales, you shall eat - Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 11, says that You shall have the lawful meat of the birds. Deuteronomy Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 20 says that Ye shall eat the meat of the lawful fowls - It is allowed. Further if you read, it is mentioned in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 13 and 14 that If you have Milk, you are weak - if you have strong meat, you are powerful in reasoning - Bible says that not I. In the Gospel of Luke, Ch. No. 24 only quotations Verse No. 41 to 43 Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), goes in the upper room and he says Have you any meat to eat?- And the disciples gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb fish - and he ate before them. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) - in the book of Romans, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that One who believth in eating all things, he can eat - those who are weak, they only eat herbs and shrubs - but anyone who eateth, should not insult those who eateth not - and those who eateth not, should not judge those who eateth - This is law of God"

but vegetarianism can support spiritual growth. at certain points in your spiritual path, you body may actually reject the idea of eating meat.

 

also, when the ldt is in an expansive period, you actually crave meat. i've been there. it passes though.

 

Yeah at certain points - a lot of modern schools teach disciples to starve themselves and damage their Yuanqi from the get go (though they think it's right, from misinterpreting texts saying to do this.. etc etc.. this ain't the thread for this topic ).

 

Might want to check this book by Dr Weston A Price 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration - A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects'

 

A great article here as well:

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/ancient-dietary-wisdom-for-tomorrows-children/

 

Some good fixes:

 

soy milk - one cup has the same protein as a portion of meat!

 

peanuts:

 

tofu: .

Peanuts are damp and fiery, some people should not have then, and if so only a small handful. Its hardly a replacement of meat.

 

Soy milk is no where near a replacement of meat. And it is also cooling and damp, totally different function from meat (same for tofu). Protein is one thing..what about iron, zinc and amino acids etc.

 

Iv had friends who have gone vegetarian and had to turn back to normal diet as it was not really possible -especially with today's modern food \ minerals in soil etc. Fatigue, slow thinking, less clarity are all common. In long term vegetarians I have found they are very slow thinkers and talkers.

 

Also IMO, not eating meat is not a great moral decision. Plants also have life and karma, jingqishen, why do you eat them then? They are all part of creation.

 

There are no cheats to shedding your karma, eating food is an exchange of energy, even animals eat other animals (and plants) they smartly do what they need too. Humans are able to digest both meat and plant, and that's what should be done IMO. Whether its plant or animal, fungus, water, rock minerals. They are all part of Dao.

 

Edit, in saying all that I believe only small amounts of meat need to be eaten with mostly vegetables, grains etc.

Do you offer any value, or just troll?

 

In the next days, I will extract all text passages concerning practical instruction

from The Secret Of The Golden Flower (the translation on http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ )

and consolidate them into a new thread in my PPD forum.

Then everybody can study the included practical instructions from the source text in an easy accessible form.

Include Chinese references as well. And none of your own ideas or conclusions.

 

All from the text plain and simple.

 

The one key method is "turning the light around". ZOOM just explained to me that light= awareness, and that turning the light around = focusing your awareness inwards on the upper tantien in your head.

Any textual references where it says to do this? And any details on what is actually is "awareness"? Very vague term. Also what is the Chinese character from the text used as "awareness" so we can check the meanings in more detail.

 

Still no method described, very, very vaugue.

 

Stages of progress? Should all be in the book according to ZOOM and I'm not seeing it yet.

 

no, it's related but not the same.

 

Do you know who did the Huangdineijing translation? There are phrases like: 歧伯曰：此其天壽過度，氣脈常通，而腎氣有餘也。此雖有子，男不過盡八八，女不過盡七七，而天地之精氣皆竭矣。In the translation we see pre-heaven and post-heaven, but in the source there is nothing about it, only 腎氣 and 天地之精氣... Anyway, xiantian 腎氣 is the key to Ming understanding.

Question, 腎氣 kidneyqi in this way is meaning postnatal based on the nature of the character used? 氣

 

Where as prenatal would be 炁?

 

What I have seen in this thread are willing followers that don't question authority and have made untenable remarks regarding knowledge of immortals in China with visits to Russia and so forth. The guru cult fixation was exposed years ago in several well researched papers and well documented in academic texts. I have met Sufi masters, myriad Tulku's/Buddhist masters, third eye masters that offer the quickest path to God and many other frauds that come and go. This guru fixation is a transfer of power from the student to the master.

 

Several points are relevant in this thread; authoritarianism in the guise of a teaching that will never be revealed given the secret nature of such, in this case Neidan, several participants have ignored the most basic questions, several of my questions have been answered with questions with no answer to mine, positing untenable belief systems such as immortals in Russia with no offer of proof. The cult of secrecy is what raises red flags for me.

 

I have always asked myself; what do these so called teachers want with me, especially when they have so much power?

 

It's been said they are not secret, just you need to do some work on your own part and see for yourself - get proof yourself.

 

No problem,

reading my in-depth analysis of The Secret Of The Golden Flower so far will probably increase your understanding of the text profoundly:

http://thetaobums.com/forum/414-zoom/

OK I gave you some time of my day and read through your analysis. I didn't see any mention of methods, ie what to actually do. Only description of some processes etc.

 

There is no method described. How come you have so much faith in this translation of GF?

 

"This simple and straightforward method created Immortals since ancient times!"

 

Where is it? Simply just concentrate the thoughts on the heart?

 

Well, even Liu Yiming can be wrong, obviously!

 

His comment on The Secret Of The Golden Flower has nothing to do with the book per se,

which was written as a practice manual for lay people to achieve Immortality without master and without school,

as Thomas Cleary explicitly states in his translation.

 

As it was written for laypeople, there certainly nothing missing at all.

 

The "alchemical firing process" is more than clearly described.

 

You should do your research instead of blindly and mindlessly believing into authority figures.

 

In case you are unable to think for yourself, let me do it for you:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/37552-the-superiority-of-the-secret-of-the-golden-flower-method/?p=607519

Why such aggressive tone? Can't we just discuss in a calm manner.

 

"as Thomas Cleary explicitly states in his translation."

 

Luiyiming is an achieved immortal..

 

What weight does Clearly hold on this matter? Even clearly can be wrong

 

Clearly's statement is not correct. There is no such thing as methods described in books..you can find several writings mentioning this. But you can insist on this of you like.

 

You don't respect the Daoist tradition, or have any relation to it.

 

Are you practicing a method from GF?

 

Can you help us laypersons to understand the steps, how to do it, when to do it, deviations etc. Its all in that book, then I'm interested to see what you can tell me about the method.

Your statement at the bottom of the page sums your position; "avoid false Neidan schools with no lineage and without complete methods of Xing and Ming."

 

Why its important to avoid schools with no linage and why you need a teacher. From ZOOMs favourite link: http://www.thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/summary.html

 

 

The moon waxing to fullness is a secret passed on by word of mouth. The medicinal substances are hard to know, and the firing process is not easy to understand. Students should hasten to find a genuine teacher. -- Liu Yiming (commentary on Understanding Reality)

If Neidan methods doesn't involve standing and sitting meditation, dynamic exercises, Dao Yin and various work with imagination, then it's legitimate to speak like that.

 

There is more things to it than just an exercise. Timing, consistency, repeatability, etc etc.. there is many requirements.

 

We have two legs, two arms, a head, a couple of eyes and a nose: there aren't many ways to exercise our body and mind indeed.

What could be this special kind of exercises that neidan lineages discovered and it's so difficult to imagine?

 

 

I know what you mean, but even the same exercise looking the same from outside with maybe some minor differences can make a huge difference to the results. Same in Qigong, someone doing pole standing may get result of X, someone else doing another way of pole standing which looks the same, but has some additional things added (visualisations for example) may get results Y.

 

About the method I know and practice, I have learned that there are several exercises from other teachers / temples around China which look very similar to it, but is not real Neidan at all. Small differences and important details making a huge difference to the result.

 

 

But I seriously doubt that the Neidan methods you're celebrating aren't about some special visualizations, bizarre body movements, focus on body spot while regulating the breath and such.

 

Correct they are not the highlighted - they are popular false methods, and I would not call it "bizarre body movements".

 

You can find it out easy though, just takes some effort on your part to meet a teacher and see what its all about

Cool, do you have any video's of the style?

your teacher is a Qigong teacher, not a Neidan teacher, which would disprove your claim.

 

And once again, where you get the idea that you know anything about my teacher?

 

I think you assume laoziacademy.com is Wangliping's website? I believe their website is laoziacademy.us

 

No relation between them.

 

 

 

I understand! So a personal issue because I disproved your buddy Cozma single-handedly!

Btw:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32561-the-teaching-of-quanzhen/?p=498703

 

You have obviously a Qigong teacher, not a Neidan teacher!

I didnt even see you saying this, I guess you added it in as an edit. What gave you the impression my teacher has anything to do with this?

 

And in reply to your questions about reading Chinese, I do read some Chinese and translate. All examples from Zhongludaoji were my own translations, but also with input from my teacher, its the only way.

 

Why would doing this make me a teacher?

 

I don't understand where you're coming from..or what's your point.

I understand! So a personal issue because I disproved your buddy Cozma single-handedly!

You know, Wu-Liu Pai members post here that Liping is only seen as a Qigong teacher in China!

So as you only learned Qigong,

I most likely know much more about Neidan than you do!

 

Yet you disagree with Quanzhen scriptures? You don't agree with Zongliquan, Ludongbin, Liuyiming... etc.. so just which Daoist doctrine do you understand and agree with? if you read ANY Daoist scripture (not butchered by English translations), all your false assumptions about Neidan will be corrected on a textual level very easily.

 

But you can't even be bothered to learn anything or go anywhere to learn anything, just read some crap that is handed to you on a golden platter, which is nice and easy to read in English. To understand Neidan it takes a lot of work, time, dedication, persistence and practice. Not to mention having a teacher, but it's clear why you don't have a teacher anyway.

 

You're not even looking.

 

You know it all

Why don't you show your BS "false method list" to John Chang?

As I pointed out before, the Mo Pai method is also on the list, what disproves it already as BS!

 

Just shows you have no idea of anything that Neidan is about. End of story.

Are you opendao's tag team partner who just got PM'ed by him to do the next shift?

 

 

No, I am not. I have no relation to Opendao. I'm from the other side of the globe

 

Can you answer to anything I said or just troll?

are you serious? There is no word Jing in that phrase!

 

祖师曰：自然曰道，道无名相，一性而已，一元神而已。

 

I think we can nullify your "evidences" after that or you will insist you've "studied very intensely and openly the source text of The Secret Of The Golden Flower "?

 

I am still waiting to hear a response on this, as it was conveniently ignored by ZOOM. This kind of mistake can put doubts on anything you have to say ZOOM, you should have some response to this, at least admit you were wrong. People like you blindly read English translations of scriptures and take them as ultimate truth...Not even 100% the translations fault here, its your own interpretations, lack of a teacher and linage which is most of the problem.

 

You accuse Opendao of using "tricks" by actually being able to translate some Chinese, man its not tricks its called actually being able to read and understand a tradition which is being discussed here, also not only understanding but having years of experience working with Neidan.

 

If you think Neidan is as simple as reading a website called thesecretofthegoldenflower.com without consulting a teacher and understanding the scriptures in its original form (Chinese language), you could not be more wrong. You know there is so much room for error in translations to English?

 

https://m.facebook.com/notes/dzogchen-khenpo-choga-rinpoche/auspicious-news-my-teacher-lama-karma-attains-rainbow-body/10151794778007773/

 

Man do you know what it means to die?

 

Qi separate from Shen = Death .. so this is Tianxian for you?

 

Let's check what Tianxian Zhongliquan had to say about this kind of 'incorrect' practices which you take is Tianxian. BTW this crap is common, and any real achievement would not be posted on Facebook

 

So we will start with some trickery, using Chinese characters.

 

吕曰：“大道难知、难行之理如何？”

Lu said : Great Dao is difficult to understand and realise, what is the reason?

 

钟曰：“以傍门小法，易为见功，而欲流多得。互相传授，至死不悟，遂成风俗，而败坏大道。

Zhong Said: By means of depending on the ways the of small method's, seeming easy and appear to have good results, and desire to circulate and spread to many. Mutually passing on these false methods, being incorrigibly stubborn and benighted to the end of their days, succeeding to become popular and common practices as well as undermining and corrupting Great Dao.

 

I didn't translate them all, just a few, and highlighted some relevant ones:

 

有斋戒者、

those who abstain from meat and wine adopting vegetarian diet,

有休粮者、

those who stop eating grain and fast from food for periods of time,

有断味者、

those who abstain from the flavours,

有禅定者、

those who meditate and stabilise the mind,

有不语者、

those who don't talk,

有存想者、

those who preserve thoughts,

有绝累者、

those who go without rest,

有开顶者、

those who open the crown of the head [third eye],

有缩龟者、

those who withdraw and retract the tortoise (genitalia),

有绝迹者、

those who cut off relations,

有看读者、

those who recite Scriptures or chants,

有定息者、

those who stabilise or fix the breath,

有吐纳者、

those who practice Tu Na, exhale [the old] and inhale [the new],

有布施者、

those who donate to temples and charity's,

有供养者、

those who make offerings and sacrifices to gods and deities,

有救济者、

those who provide aid, relief and salvation

有入山者、

those who enter the mountain [leave their wives and family],

有识性者、

those who realise only Xing

有不动者、

those who are motionless,

有受持者、

those who accept and maintain blind faith

 

On false methods:

Zhongliquan said: By beginning cultivation and not realising the Great Dao, as well as desire to attain the goal quickly. Cultivation can be compared to a still sitting tree, the heart as if cold and like dead ashes, Shen internally conserved, not to scatter the mind aspirations and concentration. By calmness and stabilising therefore the Yin Shen can release, it is the clear spirit of a Ghost, pure Yin, without Yang, it is Immortal. Because using the mind aspirations and concentration the Yin spirit wont scatter, for these reasons we call it Gui Xian. Although its called Xian, it's actually a Gui (ghost \ devil \ spirit of dead).

 

From ancient times til now Buddhist disciples, hard-working diligent in their practice so therefore they call it 'attained the Dao', truly ridiculous and laughable.

 

Also for the record, Opendao's "dogma" is also the same things my teacher is saying and teaching. At least my dogma works, which is more then you can say. Having never had a Neidan teacher, and probably never will at this rate.

 

 

Yuanjing and Yuanqi are similar things.

 

If I were you I'd read the other threads here with discussions covering these. "Neidan vs Qigong" thread and a few others.

 

"i m not gunning for immortality here...i just want to regain all the prenatal jing i had.."

 

Refilling Yuanjing is gunning for Immortality