thamosh

Sweet, thanks! Oops, I had missed that in his lineage.. And dang, that would have been cool if he could have met John Chang & traded notes! In fact, if him, John, Wang Liping and Luo KangQi could all meet in a roundtable and compare methodologies and results! Or am I dreaming?

Another interesting excerpt is on page 30:

I'm slightly confused as to what is considered external vs internal though, since both types get injected internally into the patient? Is the wei qi simply qi that has been projected remotely to, and nei qi passed through direct contact with, the patient?

 

And grounding is also important when they fa qi into these patients, similar with John Chang...as they must first have their yonquan points opened and stand barefoot on wet towels (p 29).

 

Aurelian also stated that since he had apparently already reached a fairly advanced level when Jiang first tested him, he was already ready to "cross the bridge" if he so chose, but for which there was no turning back.. (p 4) Sounds like this correlates with the 2nd Threshold, and Aurelian even describes is as entering a real "magical" realm.

 

And how exactly do you form the square and circle mudras mentioned on p 75?

 

Well, many thanks & enjoy your tangyuan!

Cool, it can only help to have more expert witnesses.

 

I do wonder if Jiang believes that qi, a bioenergy, can be generated (or even measured?) by machines? An if so, if such a synthetic version might still be inferior to the original divine natural phenomena?

 

I do know from page 92 of Adventures In Qi Healing With Master Jiang, they generally specify wildcrafted herbs and ingredients in their medicinal recipes. Which are even more natural than merely "organic" farmed crops. As is the whole basic thrust of Taoism.

 

That makes sense to me.

 

The Shaolin seems to be at the heart of all of this.

 

In my research I discovered that the mo pai was a connection to shaolin.

 

It seems that they were the heavy hitters for the original white lotus sect which was a group of shaolin monks who took their teachings of pure land buddhism and spread it outside temple after the burning.

 

Later they formed a group called the triads to over throw the govt.

 

Now these budhhists had to become devout taoists at this time for the govt was tracking down and killing all buddhist in the land.

 

Qutoed from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lotus

The White Lotus sect may have been one of the main ancestors of the Chinese organizations known as the Triads. The Triads were originally members and soldiers of the Heaven and Earth Society during the period of the war between the Ming and Qing dynasties. The Triads formation was not for criminal purposes, the original purpose was to overthrow the Qing and restore the Ming to power. The White Lotus Society may have been one of five branches of the Heaven Earth Society which formed at the Shaolin temple by Ming Rebels and Loyalists. The Five branches known by some as the five ancestors were the Black, Red, White, Yellow, and Green Lodges. After there was no longer any need for Triads on the battlefield, some high level military leaders resorted to criminal activity in order to find means of survival as China's new age in history began.

 

 

 

Quoted from here http://www.rense.com...l81/chinese.htm

• The Mohists, want justice in this life, not the next and thus are not opposed to violence as a last resort.Mozi had a well armed, highly trained army at his disposal. The army would only fight defensive battles on behalf of small kingdoms that were being attacked by larger kingdoms. Usually, the mere presence of his army was enough to prevent war. If attacked, their resistance was fanatical. Their view was that "if we are going to die anyway, we will take as many of them with us as possible."
• Mozi developed many new types of armament and fortification. He was not just a philosopher but also a general, an engineer and an inventor among many other things.
• According to Western scholars Mohism vanished without a trace in the 2nd century BC.
• It is true the Qin emperor, who ended the warring states era by unifying China brutally suppressed the Mohists and burned their books.
• However, they did not vanish, they merely went underground and became secret societies. After Mozi died his disciples split into three factions. Today, their spiritual descendants are known as the triads.
• The triads are not the same a crime gangs. Most of their members are engaged in legitimate business. However, whenever they perceive that government has become evil and is excessively exploiting the common people, they make secret preparations for revolt. As the Chinese proverb has it: "all it takes is a single spark to start a prairie fire." Time and time again in the history of China they have started peasant revolts. Most recently we saw the Taiping rebellion of the 1800's and the Boxer rebellion of 1900. Their big success was in overthrowing the last Emperor in 1911 and installing Sun Yat Sen. They also threw the Soviets out of China in 1967 and freed China from the last vestiges of colonial domination.

 

Mo Zi's teaching of "universal love" without digging deeper in how he thought this and his view of justice could and would be established in society. Basically his view was one that we could call a kind of "primitive communism" with society ultimatley splitting up into small clans wich govern themselves, people being "equal" in a very primitive sense which also leaves no room for scientific or other achievements. Everything would be focussed mostly on bare survival than personal or social acheivements. This kind of thinking still comes through in the tenets of Mopai that the training can mess a student up or even kill him, which is taken into account just as such - reflecting Mo Zi's view of "survive or die trying". Such a philosophy was of course not very popular with rulers, but also broad parts of Chinese society were in the end not too pleased with what the ideas of Mo Zi provided them with in a long term view. Confucianism on the other side showed more promise in governing society and advancing it. One can see the ideas of Mo Zi still at work in Asia though in history and contemporary. Namely all types of communist movements somewhat draw upon Mo Zi's ideals ans some, such as the "Khmer Rouge", also followed with the not so desireable stuff and the idea of a truly "savage equalism" of "everyone being equal, acting equal, thinking equal".

 

 

Now there a many a different sects in the white lotus.

 

Quoted from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lotus

It originated from a Pure Land Buddhism society White Lotus School (zh:白蓮宗)

 

 

 

Quoted from here http://www.shaolinkungfu.org/art.asp

The Lohan have been in existence for over 1,650 years in China and were the founders of the "White Lotus Society" authorized to teach non-Buddhist the secrets of Shaolin Kung Fu.

 

Shaolin monks are considered the foremost exponents of Martial Arts (Wushu) in China and abroad. Due to the extreme nature of their training they gained almost super-human abilities.

 

"Lohan" is a Chinese word derived from the Sanskrit word "Arhat" which means worthy one. There have been many controversies over what the Lohan were. In Northern China Lohan were described to be the "enlightened spirits" from the Honan Shaolin Temple. In Southern China the Lohan were considered to be renegade monks from the Fukien Siu Lum Temple.

 

Legend states that between 265AD and 520AD Da´ Mo (Bohidarhma) created Sho Pa Lo Han (18 Postures of Lohan). This was basically the foundation of many of the following styles that were established from that time period in Shaolin.

 

According to Buddhist tradition, monks were not allowed to leave the temple(s). How was it that the Buddhist Patriarch "Bohidarhma" was able to leave his temple in India? Interesting question. This was an interesting problem for the monks Shaolin also. How were they able to leave the temple(s) to conduct charitable missions, recruiting, etc.? The answer is quite simple. In very traditional Chinese fashion the monks of Shaolin created another sect to their order. This sect would be allowed to become the "Wandering Monks of China" heard of in legends and history.

 

These ´Lohan´ wandered all over feudal China. During those many years, the monks acquired many different styles of Martial Arts. The Shaolin monks were (and still are) considered the foremost experts of Chuan Fa in China but they were not the sole people practicing the Martial Arts.

 

Also, during the late Ming Dynasty the Shaolin monks became concerned about the changes in their country. They knew that the up and coming Manchurian government would be coming after them. They wanted to teach non-Buddhist the Martial Arts that they had become so famous for to assist in protecting their way of life. Unfortunately, they were left with another problem. Non-Buddhist could not be taught the Martial Arts of their temple. Not without first converting. Therefore they commissioned the Lohan Sect for this task.

 

This tradition is the foundation of our system. We have many styles integrated into our own that are not solely Shaolin techniques. These sub-styles of the system have been modified with Shaolin philosophy and understanding.

 

There are 72 confirmed sects from the Shaolin Temples. Within those sects there are many different styles of Martial Arts. Not to mention that with so many people in one country the development of different understandings (systems) will happen. With this in mind there must be well over 2,500 different styles of Kung Fu in China alone.

 

What I suspect from the research that Ive done is that some of the remnants of the white lotus sect took refuge on lunghushan. Where this alchemy was taught to the tian shi sect.

 

And thru them went to wudang.

 

Quoted from here http://www.sacredpeaks.net/ssWudang.htm

the site was turned over to the Zhengyi sect of Taoism who established groups of 50 monks in each of the four major temples. During the Yongle reign, Wudang Shan was renamed Taihe Shan (mountain of supreme harmony) and took precedence over the Five Sacred Peaks.

 

 

 

http://www.sacredpeaks.net/taHistory.htm

Golden Elixir Taoism. It was not a new sect per se, but a new way of applying nei dan practice to daily life. Writers such as Chuan, Po-tang in the 11^th century and Li, Tao-chun in the 13^th century described a new tradition of individual practice that was informed by Buddhism. The earlier practices of purifying the body and gaining some degree of control over autonomic functions were reinterpreted as a more Buddhist-like idea of purifying the mind. This was absorbed into the later Quanzhen sect and White Lotus sect teachings.

I just discovered who I was in a past life.

 

When I first seen the picture of this person I knew it was me. They dressed the way i would their expression to the way they sat was all of something that I would do.

 

So then I tested it.

 

I said "I was this person in my past life." An everything in my head went BRRRRRMMMMM very very strongly for almost a minute.

 

This happens now everytime I say that.

 

Since then I started to have flashes of the past life.

Go Public with it.

 

Write a professional press release about this and call your local news. Submit your story to various gossip blogs and sites.

 

Make calls to setup interviews about how they stole from you.

Keep training!

 

Take it easy one step at a time dont over do it.

 

Listen to your Sifu!

 

With correct authentic practice you will know it all in time anyways.

I don't know. The terminology that thamosh uses doesn't resonant with me.

 

Im ok with that.

There is such a thing as alchemical kung fu.

 

So many masters trying to do kong jing but no one teaching a kong jing kung fu form.....

 

Chris Matsuo teaches good kung fu and there are others like him.

 

So on to new points and horizons.

 

Now that is has been stated publicly that there are more advance kung fu forms that produce more ging and internal power than others.

 

This means that kung fu forms can be categorized just like chikung in the areas of chi flow. cultivation, and internal ging.

 

1. low level

2. intermediate level

3. advance

4. secret

 

Most kung fu forms that are currently out is low level meaning that kung fu form alone will not cultivate powerful chi flow, alchemical cultivation, or internal power.

 

The intermediate will do some cultivation but not too much.

 

This is how kung fu masters keep you in line they just hold back more powerful kung fu.

 

There is also very high level kung fu forms that are the cap stone.of the whole system. Forms like this contain the secrets and develop every skill and ability that one could learn in the system.

 

But those type of kung fu forms are rare and hard to come by.

My point is that there is high level gong fu out there.

 

You want vibrating palm? you could do mantak chia's bone breathing (which I wouldnt advise)

 

Or

 

You could learn chris matsuo's thunder ad lightning spirit boxing kung fu form.(which is a good example of a high level kung fu form)

 

Its more practical to learn the kung fu form because you build the palm and practice kung fu at the same time.

 

Now are there more advance forms like chris matsuo's in other kung fu sects? - Yes there is.

 

So in another sect they may have their first form is the vibrating palm form.

 

The second form may generate a strong energy field around the body.

 

The third form enables you to do the vibrating palm from the aura alone.

 

The fourth form maybe works on maintaining that field while doing martial poses.

 

Finding a gong fu training that teaches forms like this where the next form is more energetically powerful than the last is hard to come by but it does exist.

 

So far ive only come across one system that all of the kung fu forms in the system progress like this.

 

In gong fu there is always a higher mountain there is always a higher gong fu to learn.

Im posting this so people dont see stuff like vibrating palm and iron shirt and think its super secret/sacred neikung....

 

Its a standard skill.

 

Now what is a rare skill would be hung gar's advance internal tiger palm ability which lets you send that strike from a distance in 3 directions at one time.

 

and no I dont have to rethink anything. I know the power that kung fu holds.

There is a big difference between Kung Fu and Taiji. Kung Fu movements are more rougher and gross which can be accomplished in a shorter time. It is considered to be an external skill as opposed to Taiji.

 

The forms of Taiji are much more refine and profound which considered to be an internal skill or Neigong. It takes a longer period to accomplish many different levels of skills.

 

Well yeah there is a difference there 2 different styles of gong fu.

 

All kung fu has inner skill.

 

An refinement in martial ability goes hand and hand with the mastery of how the techniques are used.

This is such a western mind set.

 

So let me bring the point home.

 

There is no such thing as internal or external kung fu.

 

All kung fu came from the sil lum.

 

Which means it came from a buddhist temple.

 

All kung fu has ging iron body internal palm herbs jows and meditations.

 

Just like the shaolin does.

 

White crane kung fu has ging

 

Hung Gar kung fu has ging

 

Choy li fut has ging

 

Bak Mei has ging

 

and so and so on.

 

Its only westerners that get caught up in this and think it is something other than kung fu.

 

An those are just the publicly known skills.

 

So if people only know of vibrating palm and the ability it grants thats cool but that doesnt mean that a more advance kung fu set that lets you send a jolt or the vibrating palm thru your aura alone doesnt exist.

(Temple) Tai Chi too

 

Umm all that is just kung fu and taichiquan is also kung fu as well......

 

iron body/golden bell, vibrating palm(or any palm), dim yuet, empty force, and so on is just kung fu

 

Thats not the stuff that students of authentic kung fu search for because thier sifu will teach it to them in time anyways when the student is ready.

 

Its just kung fu... Whether its internal or external skill.

I was at work an a few thoughts relative to this thread just came into my mind.

 

There is no super secret neikung. Only higher level of gong fu.

 

So things like iron body/golden bell, vibrating palm(or any palm), dim yuet, empty force, and so on is just kung fu if you practice kung fu this is what you are suppose to develop.....

 

Now the above isnt even the indoor skills thats not taught publicly.

 

So when I see things like mantak chia's bone breathing kidney breathing and so forth and selling it in a book as advance neikung it just seems like utter and complete crap.

 

The truth is that good kung fu gets you all of the internal skills and a chance to inherit some of the things that are not pulicly dicussed.

 

Thats my first point.

 

My second is that yes there is higher level kung fu forms.

 

Meaning - That a lower level form when done produces little chi sensation no heat no buzzing and not much chi flow.

 

- The higher level form just after a few movements produces alot of heat intense buzzing powerful chiflow and your shen feels like its being charged.

 

Now there are even higher level kung fu forms than that that exist.

 

What is quoted below is just to further my point that good kung fu is all one needs.

 

Quoted from here http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?29728-Red-Sand-Palm

 

 

Anywho,supposedly the practitioner of "Red Sand Palm" doesn't even strike the person. He can make a movement of "rubbing" with the palm at a distance and it effects the enemy. Supposedly it not only internally effects organs but also the flow of qi and the damage is irreparable.

 

 

Red Sand Palm is also known by the name "Cinnibar Palm", which pertains to the fact that such intense energy is cultivated from the Dan Tian (Cinnibar Field) and focused into the palms that the practitioners palms turns red because of the intensity of energy and blood circulation.

The training method for this is said to be by rubbing your hands over fine course sand. However, particular attention must be placed in the projection of qi from your palms to be able to influence the sand below your palms. Hence it's more internal (and destructive) nature

 

 

Iron Sand Palm and whose palms were red. Hence the name, Cinnabar Iron Sand
Palm. Gu Ruzhang's Iron Sand Palm was called Black Sand Palm or Hei Sha Zhang.
Naturally, Gu Ruzhang's palms were black. Both Iron Sand Palms are known as
Poison Sand Palm or Tu Sha Chang. The training methods for both Cinnabar and
Black Iron Sand Palms are similar.

 

 

Gu Ruzhang was matched against the Cinnabar Master,
the fight was titled, Black Iron Sand Palm Master verses Red Iron Sand Palm
Master. The Red Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm Master used his Bagua techniques to
circle Gu Ruzhang and looked for an opening. When the Red Cinnabar Iron Sand
Palm Master attacked, Gu Ruzhang avoid the deadly red palm and counter-attacked.
Within three moves Gu Ruzhang struck his opponent with his Black Iron Sand Palm
and knocked his opponent down. On his opponent's chest, was Gu Ruzhang's black
palm imprint. Gu Ruzhang's opponent was quickly escorted off the stage and was
treated for the poison.

Authentic kung fu is where its at.

 

Check it.

 

Quoted from here http://www.redjademartialarts.com/view.php?&articleid=26⊂=Drunken

 

"The Eight Shadow style of Drunken boxing has many underlying theories that drive the practitioner to generate power, remain grounded or rooted and combat opponents effectively. It is defined in a numerological progression based on the eight trigrams (bagua) five elements (wuxing) and so on. Each number has to do with different aspects or energies of the style. To truly master the style you have to understand each of these keywords and energies and put them into your practice. The drunken forms are filled with movements that train all of them in applicable ways, without these energies however the drunken forms become a dance that can be used in combat only minimally and without anywhere near the full potential of the style.

The progression is as follows:

8 Shadows 7 Stars 6 Harmonies 5 Elements 4 Soft Hands 3 Powers 2 Minds 1 Dantien

Dantien

The first and most important thing in martial arts movement is the connection of the entire body to the Dantien. In order to fully connect the body one must understand the Dantien and its relationship to physical movement. The only way to accomplish this connection is with the use of the minds intent and a will to understand the inner workings of the body’s energy more deeply. Dantien is also referred to as the Dan, the yellow courtyard, the internal elixir, the jade pill, etc.

The Dantien is located about three finger widths or cun below the navel and another three cun into the body. Now this is common knowledge however it is the true connection to the point in the body one must accomplish, merely understanding its location is not enough. The Dantien is the storage facility of the body’s qi, like a battery. Qi that is gained through post-natal means is brought to the Dantien and stored for use in various bodily functions. Qi is brought to the Dantien post-natal through breathing in air, eating food, drinking water and qigong practice. The more healthfully we eat, drink, and take care of ourselves with regular qigong practice or other internal neidan methods like Taiji, Bagua, Xingyi, Lohanquan or meditation the more qi we will store in Dantien and the longer healthier lives we will lead as a result.

The Dantien is also connected to the process of transforming Jing, Qi & Shen within our bodies. However as this is a book on drunken boxing we will stick to the relevance of the Dantien to martial movement and connectivity.

Cross section of Dantien

The Dantien is seen differently at different levels of understanding and training. Here I will present the levels applicable to the Drunken Style and those alone.

Level One

At the beginning of your training the Dantien should be seen as a ball of energy located below the navel. It glows with a bright light and when gazed upon with sincerity, shows a round spherical shape to it.

Level Two

Now the Dantien has been worked with for many months or even years and its movement is free and unhindered (see the section on Dantien movement). Now the practitioner begins to feel a vibration like quality before the Dantien itself moves. When the minds intent reaches the Dantien it begins to vibrate as though something within the sphere was moving, which is exactly the case. The Dantien is made of two balls fitted tightly within the outer sphere that rotate freely following the mind intent.

When the vibration is felt the practitioner should meditate on the three questions of Dantien: what does Dantien look like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like? A repeated effort trying to examine Dantien will allow the student to look inside the sphere to see the two medicine balls rotating freely following the mind intent. This then becomes the source of body movement as it precedes the movement of the outer sphere of Dantien. The inner spheres begin to rotate and this causes the outer sphere to rotate in the same path which is then connected to the body.

 

Body Movement and Dantien

The body must be seen as a series of interconnected gears. The central gear or cog to this whole machine is the Dantien at whatever level it is perceived. The mind must first connect to the Dantien and instruct it to rotate then causing the body to rotate and follow its direction. So for example if the Dantien rotates left the left hip will begin to move backwards and the right hip forwards which then will cause the entire body to move.

If the body moves before the Dantien then internal connection is not present and the power generated by the body will be external primarily in nature. The body must learn to move from the inside out to the extremities. Even if at first you cannot feel the Dantien and it has not become a real place in your body to you, you must attempt over and over to connect to it and move from it. With time and training the connection will be made to Dantien and its movement. See the section on the six harmonies for more information and detail on the movement of the body in relation to Dantien.

Mind Intent and Dantien

The mind must be the commander in the body, where the minds intent is placed the qi will follow. When it comes to the Dantien and its movement it is the place of the mind to clearly command the Dantien to rotate in the specific manner that is needed. A few examples of the different rotations of Dantien and the corresponding movements follow, in text this is a hard thing to understand so study this idea thoroughly.

Black Tiger Steals Heart Punch

This is more commonly known as the reverse punch in most martial arts and is a basic technique of nearly every style used to teach the beginnings of body connection. Here we will look at a punch with the right hand and the rotation of the Dantien to create power. The right hand begins at the hip of the person about to punch. The mind instructs the Dantien to rotate to the left, beginning its movement it transfers energy to the hips which rotate the right hip forward. This in turn will begin the spine twisting the same direction causing the right shoulder to begin to move in a forward direction. The shoulder then transfers energy down to the elbow and hand shooting it out from the hip and into the target. The recoil should be done after the punch in exact reverse, beginning with the Dantien rotating to the left to draw the hand back in.

Dantien & The Wine Vessel

Once the practitioner has connected to Dantien and movement is initiated with its movement taking direction from the mind intent the perception of its make up can change once again. The idea of the Dantien as a wine vessel or Gourd (a hollowed out melon used as a canteen in old China) does not take the place of the above descriptions and training methods, it merely adds to the use and connection of the body to the Dan.

The Gourd was widely in use in old times as a vessel for transporting liquids of all kinds, wine among them. Now the wine vessel in the body (Dantien) is never quite full in the practitioners mind, this always allows room for more internal training and building of qi or to continue with the analogy wine. The rotation of the inner Dantien will cause the wine to gain momentum as though one were to take a half full wine vessel and shake and spin it about. This creates centrifugal force from the sloshing of the wine against the sides of the vessel creating potential energy for the body to harness."

 

This is all kung fu.......

Mantak Chia?

 

Not good gong fu.

 

Let me explain

 

In real gong fu sects they have grand masters (meaning the one and only true master of the system).

 

Ill explain why that's important later.

 

So what im seeing is techniques for kidney breathing, bone breathing and so on but none of that is gong fu.

 

In a sect or school that teaches the authentic gong for achievement. One would first learn a kung fu form that streches the tendons builds the root and circulates the chi.

 

Now if the student learns nothing else and just that form he might get ging and so forth possibly if he practices that from diligently.

 

So this student might add some chikung to his form practice to give his form a more of a kick.

 

But that still isnt authentic kung fu.

 

Now if the student learns a slightly more advance form that focus the chi the ldt and compresses the chi in the spine and the hands. Now the student will generate ging and so on.

 

The student progresses and lets the next advance kung fu form. This form builds and strengthens the middle dantian (all his sifu might say is the form brings about courage and a greater connection people), flows the mco, builds more ging and so on.

 

The student progress to a more advance form that cultivates the upper dantian, stimulates the shen, cultivates the iron body, increases chi flow, and generates a stronger field of energy around the body.

 

This is more of the idea of how authentic kung fu works.

 

Now there is a difference between student knowledge, instructor knowledge, sifu knowledge, successor knowledge, and Grandmaster knowledge.

 

The Grandmaster holds the highest gong fu knowledge of the sect and keeps some of it back and is only passed on to his successor.

 

This knowledge is power and this knowledge is used to keep the instructors and sifus inline.

Condensing from what i see is not properly understood.

 

When you breath in and out your body and aura naturally expands and contracts.

 

So if your doing moving meditation you shouldnt worry about condensing the chi will natrually sink to the ldt and the auric field will compress and expand naturally as you breath.

 

Doing the moves slow will build more ging by letting more yi chi breath get into the movements. Now since your moving really really slow this will cause one movement to have many exhales and many inhales during the execution of that one move.

 

That is what makes it internal.

 

All of this happens naturally if the gong fu is practiced correctly.

 

If it is authentic internal kung fu one may slightly glow after practicing the form.

 

Then there are more advance forms that pump a stringer and stronger chi flow.

 

Thus building more ging energizing the shen and creating a more powerful energy field around the body.

 

So then when you do your form you are radiating a good chi field.

 

So I hear things like you need to compress before you explode and so on.

 

Thats true but this happens naturally anyways and that doesnt go over the proper way to strike.

 

When you strike you are most likely doing reverse breathing. So when you inhale your energy field compresses pulling in your enemy's energy field. When you exhale and strike your energy field naturally expands an you issue your strike and ging forward.

 

Lots of people talk but few actually understand....

Ya know when it comes to ima and spiritual power and so on no one really brings it up and explains it correctly.

 

In the ima there 108 traditional ways to express fa jing. An an infinite amount of ways to flavor it.

 

Now external movement to cultivate dan is what weidan is.

 

Weidan is very powerful.

 

It leads to neidan meaning that in time of doing the internal ima or qigong one will feel the chi flow and cultivate internally in the mco dantian etc which will not be seen by on lookers. In time stillness will come into your moving form.

 

When you move your body the movement correlates to different elements and expressions that are representative of that style.

 

Certian internal expressions of chi interact with certain forces in nature.

 

So this also means that just by movement alone high level chi can be channeled into the body.

 

So in kungfu there are low level forms that build the root stretch the tendons and so on. Then there are higher level forms that channel light chi cultivate the shen and build ging.

 

So in your internal kung fu form you will notice that certain movements will cause the feeling and chi expression to change.

 

In time you should be able to recreate those internal energy expressions upon thought.

 

An this has been my exp.

 

Just recently I started doing a new moving form in the system that I train in and this form makes a pretty powerful energy field around the body. Since then the energy field that I can generate has increased significantly.

 

Some ima systems build spiritual power as well as ldt power the udt can be vibrated just like the ldt but the energy is different.

 

Now on my personal growth the sunlight of the setting sun is activates my shen and makes my mind go like brrrm. When this happens I feel centered and active at the sametime if I stay in it this sunlight will start to make me vibrate. As of late the affect of this has been growing the last time I went out to soak up this sunlight I started to see the chi particles in the air like really really good.

 

There is high level kung fu out there.

 

It is not all exactly as portrayed like what the mo pai and longmenpai is.

Um empty force was never intended to be used for the way it is being portrayed....

 

Its original use was for testing the internal strength of another practitioner and to check for weak spots in the auric field as they could indicate current or previous injuries.

 

But thats a shen ability. If your 3rd eye is open you can do empty force its just projecting your will on to someone. Its not something where you focus on the ldt circulate it thru your body and then project it at the combatant like jing is.

 

But jing is a power of earth.(ldt)

 

Empty force is the power of heaven. (udt)

 

Shen deals with the 3rd most outer layer of wei qi.

 

When your shen (heaven) and jing power from the ldt (earth) unite then you have the real kong jing.

 

Because your jing can be projected out t your third layer of wei qi.

 

From that point its all about the cultivatioon of your shen thus shen gong. As your awareness and shen then expands so does your internal power.

 

So thus in alchemy you cultivate earth first then heaven.

 

This process starts from within (alchemy) and is made manifest (taoist saint ascending into heaven).

 

Thats about the gist of it.

 

Now what i see is practioners getting a taste of shen power and thinking that is it and others getting dantian power and thinking that is it.

 

Not to much talking about uniting the power of heaven earth inside the human body and what it is like.

 

As to date I have not seen a youtube video of any of these empty force masters that have reached the level heaven and earth united.

 

Im going to leave the post off with this.

 

Its one thing to fill your aura with your intent.

 

Its quite another to fill it with tangible jing.

Years ago, I read reviews of people who'd gone to his seminars and thought about going. It seemed like a unique form of chi gung, simple and effective. I was put off by some of his grandiose literature and videos (like this one), still am. But I liked the seminar, it wasn't sky high expensive(about $300 at the time), Max came off as a pretty mellow, be your own guru kind of person. He definitely had juice. I'd recommend people interested go to a seminar or buy the book.

 

Whats shown in the video is imo silly distraction. Giving people, particularly those who've been in your system a long time, a blissful epileptic seizure is not where we should be aiming imo.

 

I'd recommend it, but

 

 

Max has spiritual power I can sense that. So I would concur with what you said about him having some juice.

 

Kunlun seems to be a cool practice.

 

It just seems the marketing for it was a little heavy thus id say the best promotion for any qigong is the practice itself.

 

Meaning kunlun was good enough just to stand on its own "laurels".

 

But max did bring something of the tibetan lamaism to the for front of chinese qigong and that's always cool.

Oops. I'm little confused. I read a good number of posts on this thread and couldn't figure out what its topic--general or specific--was. But I think this thread is about the practice of Kunlun.

 

By its name, "Lama Dorje" I thought it was about the person and teachings of Lama Dundrop Dorje who who is a Tibetan lama based in the U.K. who is also a very high level Tai Chi master and long-term bodyguard to high lamas such as the late HH Lama Penor Rinpoche. At any rate, very nice sample of Lama Dorje's Tai Chi teaching and explication of the Buddhist path:

 

 

 

peace out,

zen-bear

 

I think they were talking about this guy.

 

One of the things I like about this is that he made a trailor demo'ing some of his skills and thats always cool.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c80SMogtrHs&feature=youtu.be

When it started to happen for me it was like there was a pill or cap that a felt forming in my ldt and this pill was getting some pretty powerful jolts.

 

At the time i knew nothing of pills and the ldt and there has been no one really that i could speak to that had first hand exp with this.

 

but this was my exp for better or worse.

Quoted from here http://www.dharmadhatu-center.org/saddharmapundarika_sutra.html

 

Very high Buddha-dharma from the Mahamudra of Liberation has also been transmitted by H.H. Dorje Chang Buddha III—the tummo dharma whereby the disciple can raise his or her body heat to over 160 degrees to self-cure various illnesses and remove his or her own negative karma. He can also remove the negative karma of others. Kaichu Rinpoche demonstrated his level of accomplishment by practicing this dharma in front of a dharma assembly of dharma kings, rinpoches, dharma masters, and lay people. During this time the rinpoche was able to cause his body temperature to rise to 197.4 degrees Fahrenheit. After his body returned to around 100 degrees Fahrenheit, certain holy seed characters appeared on his body. I actually saw this happen along with many other people! A video of this rinpoche practicing this dharma is available that also used modern heat-sensing technology to document this amazing event. This 76 year-old rinpoche said that his doctors could not believe the condition of his body. It had transformed from being disease ridden to being disease free and quite healthy. This is the dharma that Tibetan masters like Milarepa used to keep warm wearing only cotton robes or less while meditating for long periods in the frigid cold of the Himalayas. There are many eyewitness accounts of yogis and yoginis being able to generate sufficient heat to dry wet shawls draped over their bodies while sitting or walking in the freezing cold—even being able to do this multiple times. The Tibetan term for this practice is "tummo," which means inner fire or heat. However, the true tummo dharma that is part of the Mahamudra of Liberation is more amazing than this.

There is a rinpoche with whom I lived for many years, Akoulama Rinpoche, who also practices tummo. She can be considered a high level Tibetan practitioner. The way she practices tummo is different from Kaichu Rinpoche. What Kaichu Rinpoche practices is the “corpse” pose tummo within the fourth level of the Mahamudra of Liberation. It is the “King of Tummos.” This form of practice can cause one to reach the state of having the rainbow body when one leaves this world. The level of accomplishment is similar to that of the Great Perfection-Longchen Nyingthig. What Akoulama Rinpoche practices is the Tibetan Yoga Tummo in the “naro” or sitting pose. During her demonstration of this dharma she was able to raise her temperature to over 140 degrees. I also witnessed this on the spot.

Now in the world there are many people who talk about practicing tummo, but to have the skills to make the temperature increase like this is very rare. Basically, these skills can no longer be seen. This shows that the true Buddha-dharma is disappearing. You should grasp this opportunity to walk on this path by learning the true Buddha-dharma that actually manifests beneficial effects.

I don't know much about Tibetan Buddhism - can someone explain what these 'pills' that they were making are for?

 

Quoted from here http://xuanfa.net/articles/report-on-true-holy-vajra-pill/

 

In Tibetan esoteric dharma, there are lineages of the Great Precious Pill, the Supreme Precious Pill, the Nectar Pill, the Vajra Pill and the Long Life Pill. Rinpoches, in general, have these five precious pills. But most of them are of the ordinary type, not the holy precious type. Holy precious pills and ordinary ones are totally two different concepts. I personally saw holy Nectar Pills bestowed by Buddha. I also personally saw true Vajra Pills. Such pills exist in the ordinary type and holy type. Ordinary precious pills (rinchen rilbu) used in Tibetan medicine undergo complex processing methods and can contain over one hundred ingredients including gold, silver, copper, iron, mercury, coral, pearls, lapis lazuli, sapphire, emerald, turquoise and ruby in their detoxified form as well as special herbs and other ingredients. They depend on the blessing and spiritual powers of the physicians and rinpoches who prepare them. However, they are still of a worldly nature and not the same as holy precious pills.

I follow my Great Dharma King Buddha Master Wan Ko Yeshe Norbu and am by His Holiness’s side constantly. Therefore, I have experienced many magnificent and real manifestations of Buddha-dharma. Now I am going to tell everyone about the experience of the true Vajra Pill. When the vajra holy mantra and mudra are practiced, the Vajra Pill will jump, even transform into rainbow light and soar into the sky. I vow that the events reported here are true and happened as reported. If not, I am willing to bear the karmic retribution of the hell realms.

All of the this happened in April, 2003.

I traveled from San Francisco to Los Angeles to see H.H. Great Dharma King Wan Ko Yeshe Norbuu. During the trip I suddenly saw a colorful and large rainbow light appear in the sky. The rainbow completely surrounded the sun. There were also Sanskrit symbols in the sky. Just as the rainbow was fading from sight, I was able to take a picture of the bottom half of this light by focusing the camera below the sun. You can see how large this circular rainbow was from the size of the tiny parking lot light-poles shown in the lower left hand side of the photo. A dignified Buddha–Dorje Chang Buddha–appeared in the middle of the rainbow. Then the Buddha became H.H. Master Wan Ko Yeshe Norbu, who was wearing a red robe and was sitting in the middle of the rainbow. It was awesome and extremely wonderful.

I was fortunate to receive a true Vajra Pill from a great holy one. It was in my hand, not in H.H. Great Dharma King Wan Ko Yeshe Norbu’s hand. When His Holiness performed the empowerment initiation, the Vajra Pill jumped in my hand just as if it were alive. It not only jumped but, in sync with the sound of the empowerment mantra recited by H.H. Great Dharma King Wan Ko Yeshe Norbu, it started to circle around and left my hand. It transformed into dazzling bright red lights and soared into the sky. At that time, I saw that H.H. Great Dharma King, who sat far away on the dais, had become a blue Vajradhara. The blue light was shining bright. The scene was very dignified. This is when I first saw the true holy Vajra Pill and the true identity of my Master. At other times and other mandalas, I have been fortunate to see the vajra pill again. One time I heard it dance and another time I heard it chant mantras. Today I tell everyone these personal experience in a concise way. My Dharma King Buddha Master Wan Ko Yeshe Norbu is the supreme and highest holy being. May all living beings have the good fortune to hear, learn, and practice the true Buddha-dharma and quickly attain enlightenment.

I started this thread with the story of the tummo demo in the first post was to show that other sects develop some serious power as well.

 

The Dali Lama is the spiritual head of the Tibetan Vajra Tradition. The 13th Dali Lama to me was something very special and actually looked the part that his title suggested.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucq5ERA3wwY&feature=youtu.be

 

More to come.

But if you over looked that then you might have overlooked the 13th dali lama....

 

Empty force and moving things with the mind is an ability of shen power.

 

Its funny how most dont notice that and think that empty force and moving things with your mind can be done by ldt training alone.