roger

It really is safe to love yourself.

Just don't be naive about it

That hurt.  I indeed disagree.  Being a soldier I am glad I lived for my country.  Dying for it serves no purpose.

 

And I totally disagree with the concept that we must experience pain before we can appreciate pleasure.  Dualistic thinking.  I really can enjoy the beauty of the rose flower without pricking my finger on one of its thorns.

I apologize. And THANK YOU sincerely for defending our country.

I didn't say we must experience pain before we can appreciate pleasure. You misquoted me.

The fact is that certain forms of positive experience are only possible because of certain forms of negative experience.

If you never got angry, you would never have any reason to forgive another. If sickness did not exist, there would be no such thing as healing. If there were no crime, police wouldn't have a job.

So certain positive experiences are made possible because of certain kinds of negative experience.

Without alcoholism, there'd be no need for Alcoholics Anonymous.

People take the fact that we exist, and what a miracle love is, for granted.

There's something unspoken among people, something they don't often consciously think about. But they know in their hearts, they're just not consciously thinking about it.

The fact that we exist is amazing, the life within us is sacred, and love is divine.

Everyone already knows this.

I see "waking up" not as a concept of ultimate truth, but when you see the ultimacy of everything, how incredible everything is.

"Ultimate reality" might be thought of as simply ultimacy itself, the profundity and glory of life.

And here we see a perfect example not only of the lunacy and illogicality of belief in 'souls' but, more importantly, the bizarre, disgusting, and potentially dangerous thinking it can lead to.

I'll explain my perspective, and I'm sure everyone will understand because it's quite simple, whether or not you agree is a different matter.

What I believe is that All That Is, the Self, or however you want to put it, desires to FULLY experience love, truth, joy, and all good things. It desires TOTAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE.

Without anger, there would be no such thing as forgiveness; without sickness, healing couldn't be; without problems, there'd be no problems to solve.

Without all manner of experience, both positive and negative, there couldn't be total spiritual experience, the Self couldn't FULLY experience ALL good things.

There's a glory in life, in coming to earth and suffering profoundly, like a soldier dying for his country.

MH,

The way I see it is that everything we do is perfect and okay in the absolute sense.

But relatively, right and wrong exist and some things are not okay.

A non-physical entity once said, "No one enters into anything like the Holocaust by accident," and, (in reference to the Holocaust) "It is possible to serve others' agendas (humankind's purposes) while serving your own (the victims of the Holocaust) at the same time."

I feel that the victims of the Holocaust chose to be so before they were born, their souls wanted to.

So really, in actuality, what Hitler did was "okay," but in the relative it was very, very, very (add about a million very's) not okay.

A Course in Miracles says that "error comes from confusing the levels". In other words, confusing the ABSOLUTE and the RELATIVE.

I asked a friend of mine once if he thought it was okay to lie. He said, "Ultimately no, but relatively yes."

He was confusing the absolute and the relative. The truth is that ultimately, it IS okay (because everything is happening perfectly), but relatively is where it might not be okay.

ACIM says, "Miracles as such do not matter, the only thing that matters is their Source, which is far beyond evaluation." That's in the absolute sense.

Yet the Universe says through Mike Dooley, "Everything matters." That's the relative.

What we truly desire is for all the suffering and darkness in the world to be perfect and to NOT matter in the absolute sense, but TO matter in the relative. That's the way it really is.

Most people confuse the absolute and the relative, and think that it DOES matter and is not okay in the absolute sense, but that it does NOT matter in the relative. That's where the dissatisfaction comes in.

Thanks for sharing this roger. I guess in terms of the title of this thread your experience is that nirvikalpa samadhi is not a dead end. I still have a few questions though if you don't mind. 

 

Do you find that you are now able to attain this state more easily in meditation? 

 

Do you try to extend this samadhi beyond meditation?

 

Do you have a sense that 'sahaja' samadhi is attainable through continued time spent in nirvikalpa samadhi, or do you do other practices to free yourself from the vasanas?

I can experience it when I really and truly want to. It's like an invocation, like calling upon it, you invoke its presence, but I find that there has to be an inspiration to do so.

I feel that I extend the consciousness and love of samadhi to others in my daily life. Perhaps I'm doing that with you. I share the essence of it in the living of my life, because it's a part of me.

I wouldn't want to feel that much bliss or love as I go throughout the day. What we need to free ourselves from in my opinion is a sense of need or longing that is unfulfilled- a need and desire for absolute truth and one's true, divine nature.

I believe I've already fulfilled that need in myself.

I did say that I haven't found enlightenment in my first post, but it depends on what you mean by the term.

Sri Chinmoy speaks of "realization" and "liberation". He says that liberation comes first, before realization.

He defines liberation as "freedom from ignorance".

I think of it as when you've fully ACCEPTED truth, when you've accepted your divine nature and the perfection of everything.

I feel that I've done that already. As far as having a strong need for "realization" goes, it just doesn't matter that much to me. I'm fine with what I've achieved. After you accept truth, you kind of lose any "need" to take it further. You're already content. At least that's the way I feel about it.

That's interesting roger, and quite clearly explained. Does it help with defusing aggressive interactions? 

 

Did it have any effect on your spiritual practices or desire to practice? 

It removed the desire, to a great extent, to interact aggressively. I've really lost the imagined need to "attack", so to speak.

I would say the effect it has had on my spiritual practices is that it healed me of a fear of going very deep.

I feel that there's a point that people's fear won't allow them to go past when meditating. It's like there's a block, a limit to how deep one will allow themselves to go.

The thing is that, and it sounds crazy, a person could probably naturally experience samahdi if they TRULY desired to, but fear, and its accompanying unwillingness, stands in the way. So there's a self-created block or wall that stands between one's conscious awareness and one's divine reality.

My experiences have healed me of that fear and block.

I don't think this samadhi or the desciption of it is nonsense, I am more questioning it's value in furthering spiritual  growth. From your perspective, was there a gain beyond the feelings at the time of experiencing it? 

A Course in Miracles talks about the gain that comes from samadhi, and based on my experience I agree with it.

Basically, it does something to your attitude, to your beliefs and perspective. You see things differently because of it.

There have been many times when people had "attacked" me, and I responded extremely lovingly to them. I just didn't really care that they were rude, it didn't matter to me.

Some call it "divine apathy" or "sublime indifference." It's like things don't matter as much.

Oh funny I just thought of something. Just today I was thinking about something I heard on the radio once about the drug crystal meth.

There was a young man saying something like, "......I started stealing, and before I started stealing, I ran away from home, and before I ran away from home, I stopped caring, and before I stopped caring, I never felt so good in my life, and before I never felt so good, I tried crystal meth."

I just didn't care so much, but in a good way, in a liberating way.

Bindi,

I've read your quote before, it's from Sri Chinmoy, I was gonna become a disciple of his many years ago.

I've experienced Samadhi so I can speak from first hand experience. I don't believe I've found enlightenment, but I've experienced the bliss and love that supposedly come with enlightenment many times.

I can tell you that the times I've been in that state most deeply, I described it as feeling "all the joy and all the love there is in life."

I thought that the word "a googleplex" (ten raised to the power of a google) wasn't a big enough word to express what I felt.

Some quotes are:

Ramakrishna said that "God-consciousness is ten million times more blissful than sexual experience."

And Paramhansa Yogananda said that cosmic-consciousness is "infinitely more real, tangible, and joyous than all the sensory and super-sensory perceptions combined."

My point is that the words you quoted aren't nonsense- there definitely IS such a thing as "ecstasy" or "bliss." But in my experience it's not the same thing as pleasure. For example, it's not like have a very, very, very intense orgasm. It's more a QUALITY of joy.

Imagine if your child was kidnapped, and a few weeks later they were rescued, found alive and well. You might think to yourself, "I couldn't possibly be happier. This is the most wonderful thing ever. I feel supreme joy!"

But it would be more a QUALITY of joy than a QUANTITY.

the theory of evolution doesnt really work. Why are we so much more evolved than anything else on this planet??

Or maybe humans are only evolved intellectually, but morally and emotionally we're like animals.

Junko,

It's possible that what you're really questioning in your heart is YOUR origin. You might be wondering where you come from, and you interpret this as curiosity about the origin of humans.

What I believe is that you HAVE no origin, you have ALWAYS existed.

Whether there's a personal God or just an impersonal universal consciousness, It didn't "create" you- you ARE It, you are a FORM or MANIFESTATION of It.

I feel that this is a very important idea and I once witnessed a great healing when I shared it with a person.

Wilhelm,

Using magick "for one's own benefit" and using it "to harm others" are two completely different things.

I personally see nothing wrong with using it to manifest a desire or grow spiritually.

But using it to harm others is both immoral and very dangerous to both oneself and others in my opinion.

My opinion is that plants and animals are the greatest teachers.

They're completely natural, entirely one with themselves.

They also deal with emotions in a way many teachers of Eastern wisdom suggest- they just let the emotion BE, without trying to control it, and it goes away naturally.

They live in the present virtually perfectly.

As far as gurus goes, I prefer the terms guide or teacher. "Guru" seems to have a connotation of giving away your power or idolization.

Thanks for sharing this, sillybear.

You mentioned the practice of visualizing the sun, and I have an interesting story about that.

One time I was meditating on the sun, and trying to know my oneness with it. All the sudden I felt a shock, as if overcome or jolted by a very powerful energy. Apparently my meditation was successful, only I learned that the sun is far too powerful of an energy or consciousness for me to safely experience oneness with.

Maybe the moon or earth would be a better choice for me next time.

Peace.

Owledge,

I've found that healing often occurs with the understanding that we have ALWAYS existed.

Whether you believe in a personal God, or an impersonal essence (or both), it's important to know that you have always been that essence.......it didn't "create" you- you ARE it! If you believe in a personal God, know that you are a FORM of that God- He/She/It didn't create you out of nothing....you have always been It.

Understanding this can for some people be essential to finding healing.

Peace and I like the koan.

On twitter today, someone quoted Rumi, saying, "You are not a drop in the ocean, but the entire ocean in a drop."

A Course in Miracles says, "Part is whole, and the whole exists in every part."

I wanted to share this with you all because I think it accurately defines our "divine identity," and the thing is that most people (people who believe in the divine identity, pantheists or whatever) don't really understand this.

You know, you are THE One Life, not a tiny part of it, and I'm a different tiny part of it. We are all THE Self Itself- the SAME Self.

We are All That Is in the form of us.

Shroom Cat,

For me, spiritual growth and healing are mostly about one's view of themselves. It's about aligning your thoughts and beliefs with your divine nature.

The real truth is that, as a manifestation and form of God/Tao/Reality or however you want to put it, you're entirely worthy, divine, beautiful, perfect, innocent (guilty of nothing), and completely OKAY and GOOD ENOUGH as you are.

When you really believe all that and see yourself in that way, something happens on a deep level of your being, a transformation takes place. Your identity becomes more in harmony with the actual truth, your REAL IDENTITY; you get in touch with it.

Having the kinds of problems you're talking about can be largely healed by seeing yourself in the way I described.

Try repeating affirmations like:

I am worthy.

I am guilty of nothing.

I am divine and beautiful.

I am good enough.

I hope this helps. Peace.

non-meditation

no effort, no technique

KundaliniLinguini,

The only person we ever really forgive, ultimately, is ourselves. It's never the other person we're really upset with.

I feel strongly that you need to know that your emotions, thoughts, and feelings are 100% OKAY.

You might have a tendency to be afraid of them, or to block them out because of feelings of guilt and shame.

Know that, as a manifestation of God/Tao, you're entirely WORTHY and GUILTY OF NOTHING.

Your emotions are OKAY and are RIGHT FOR YOU, given where you are and what you need to learn.

Paul Ferrini, who channels Jesus, says that all negative emotions are because of guilt and shame.

You're innocent of wrongdoing, because, ultimately, wrongdoing is only an ILLUSION.

Everything is happening as it should, therefore mistakes are made only relatively speaking, but not in actuality.

I hope this helps.

Orion,

I feel that a sense of meaning and significance, and also happiness, are natural states, therefore they would seemingly accompany enlightenment.

I've read that a sense of meaninglessness can precede this natural experience of meaning, and that it's necessary to go through the sense of meaninglessness to get to real meaning.

I strongly believe that love is the meaning and significance of life. Love is not a means to an end, it's an end in itself. Think about this, if love were a means to an end, what would the end be, but more love?

You mentioned a sense of pointlessness, and that's why I'm saying that LOVE IS THE POINT.

There's really nothing else worth living for in my opinion.

I hope this helps.

Just yesterday my mom showed me something she read from a book I got her for Christmas, entitled The Art of Living, by an ancient philosopher named Epictetus.

It said that a person's behavior is the measure of their wisdom, rather than their intellectual understanding.

One might have concepts, but true understanding or lack thereof is reflected in their emotions and actions.

Hi everyone. I just wanted to tell you all about the book I wrote a while back.

It's spiritual nonfiction. I self-published it with a self-publishing company.

If you want to read a free preview or buy a copy, visit authorhouse.com, then type in either the title, Love Is Truth, or my name, David O'Neill.

Click on the image of the book if you want to read a preview.

I hope everyone's New Year is off to a good start.

Mine is probably when I tried to commit suicide, although I have maybe ten or so that I would consider "amazing."

I was 18, and had recently dropped out of high school because of severe emotional problems. My family took a vacation to Litchfield Beach, and I had already been contemplating suicide, and was on medication.

We were staying on the fourth floor, and the best way I knew to end my life was by jumping off the balcony on to the asphalt below.

Before I jumped I prayed, "God, give me another chance."

Immediately after I jumped I lost consciousness. The next thing I knew I was standing in the elevator, going back to our room. I felt no pain until I crashed down on the bed in the room my mom was in, and then felt extreme pain all over my body. I broke my hip, some ribs, collapsed my lung, and lacerated my liver.

A few years after this, my mom asked God if an angel had helped me. She then heard a voice in her head tell her to look up Psalm 91. She had no idea what it said.

There's a verse in that chaper that says, "He will give His angels charge over you, lest you dash your foot against a stone." It's the same verse the Devil quoted to Jesus when he tempted him to jump off the tabernacle.

Looking back on this, I can see that it was "supposed" to happen; I made the right choice by jumping off the balcony. But I also believe it was very selfish of me, and have apologized, mainly to my mom, many times for doing it. It would have devastated her completely if I had died.

I had an insight recently that provided me with a massive amount of emotional healing that I'd like to tell you all about.

Often over the past few years, when I would get very close to accepting my "divine identity," a certain problem would arise.

It was the idea that I was "created".....out of NOTHING. This false concept stood as a block to my acceptance of my true nature.

I've now come to understand that I wasn't "created," but that I am a FORM or MANIFESTATION of God, the Universal, Dao, or however you want to put it.

A quote from A Course In Miracles is, "Everything that is now, has always been."

We weren't NOTHING, then BECAME the Universal, God or whatever; we ALREADY were that Universal, then at some point took the FORM that we presently take.

Realizing this was the insight that empowered me to accept my divine nature.