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Zhongyongdaoist posted a topic in Confucian PhilosophyThat Confucius was a Sage is part of the Confucian tradition. I have summoned and deposed a hostile witness and obtained the following account: Hostile Witness name: Zhuangzi Deposition summary: Would you please state your name for the record? Zhuangzi. And I understand that you have written a great deal on the subject of Chinese Philosophy, and in particular, what has come to be know as "Taoism", is that correct? Well, that was a long time ago and it was mostly about "Dao", I don't know much about these Taoists, though apparently they do like to refer to me as an authority. Is it or is it not true that in writings published under your name you have given a very positive account of Confucius? Yes Bearing in mind that negative accounts of Confucius also appear in your published writings, do you have an explanation for this seeming contradiction? Well, I may have been dreaming I was a Confucian when wrote it, you know, sometimes a man sometimes a butterfly, sometimes a Confucian. Can you repeat the account that you have given about the Sage qualities of Confucius? Yes. For the sake of the Jury, consisting largely of "Taoist", who who never read anything outside of your works and those of Laozi, can you clarify the names of these two interlocutors? Yes, they are Confucius under his courtesy name Zhongni and his favorite disciple Yan hui. Let the jury note substantiating evidence A and B. A: Zhongni was Confucius courtesy name, under names, on Wikipedia B: Yan hui was Confucius favorite disciple on Wikipedia Alright then, can you tell the court and the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you have written about Zhongni, AKA Confucius, and Yan Hui. Yes, this is what I wrote: If it may please the Court your Honor, I submit to the Court and the Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, As the testimony and supporting evidence shows Zhuangzi has written very positive things about Confucius as well as the better known criticism of Confucius person and teachings and I submit that a person who sometimes dreams himself a butterfly and sometimes a Confucian is hardly a reliable source for quotes to criticize either the person of Confucius or his teachings or the Confucian tradition. The jury is still out on this one. Edit: Corrected in Zhuangzi in final paragraph and added emphasis in the second section of the quoted material, to make it easier to find the important passages.