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I'm a novice. I have a great interest in practicing ZZ, based on two books: "The way of energy" (by Master Kam Chuen Lam) and "Inside ZZ" (by Master Mark Cohen). I love these books so much. They are very useful for me. Now, I want to understand more about this marvellous practice, can you introduce for me some books or websites? Thank you! 🙏🌷

When I sink deeper in Zhan Zhuang and keep my knees from extending forward beyond my toes I cannot maintain the 3 points in a line. What would you think is more important and why? How do others deal with this? Thanks in advance, Marko

Hi everyone. I'm a greenhorn qigong guy. I got into the practice following some overwhelming energy "stuff" coming from a very stressful life and a lot of meditation. My practice is zhan zhuang. I follow Master Lam's book The Way of Energy and Cai Songfang's book Wujushi Breathing Exercise. I'm only do the wu ji / wu chi position for now. I have been doing about an hour a day, give or take a half hour, for about three months. I'd like to get up to two hours or even more. My main practice hurdle is poor neck posture, but I also have a leg which always starts shaking quite a bit and that can cut my sessions short. I'm based in Cambodia and always on the lookout for good teachers, so if you know of one, be sure to give me a shout. Take care, o.

Hi, glad to have signed up for Dao Bums, I've been reading for a while. I signed up finally because I'm excited about the thread Water Over Fire, I haven't read it all, but I am working on that. I learned Hwa Yu T'ai Chi (liuhebafa) from John Chung Li, and have been doing it off and on since, and have been doing standing almost all that time with some breaks. I recently got interested in re-translating some of the Five Word Song, and got interested in the water above fire and small heaven and earth passages, which are references to Kan Li and to Microcosmic Orbit. I have been working on both. I will save some for joining that discussion, but I have had some progress.

Hi all, I am new to the forum and would appreciate if you would have any advice for me. I have had pain or discomfort in my right shoulder for easily 15 years now due to me carrying my back pack full of books solely on my right shoulder for my 10 years of academic study (I am only 35). It would come and go but my plan was to eventually heal, at least partially, my shoulder with ZZ. I have been practicing ZZ daily for a year and half now. I was practicing Wuji and holding the ball from the book by Mark Cohen, keeping in mind some advice from Master Lam Kam Chuen "don't worry, pain will go eventually". And indeed, as I was able to put more time into it I felt my arms lighter while holding the ball, felt my right shoulder as if "unlocked" and more free to move than the left one and recently felt that I had a much better balance on a single foot, although I did not specifically train for it. I have also gained in neck mobility: I can turn my head to the right to look behind me much more easily than I could few months ago. In the recent weeks I could hold the ball for about an hour or so without forcing too much, 2 times a day. Now, recently I have noticed that my shoulder discomfort has come back but instead of being located close to the shoulder where it used to be, it has gone down to the right scapular region. I can feel pain in the region joining the scapula to the upper back and in the region joining with the rib cage and also tension on the right side of the neck. Just to mention that during the practice the pain tends to be actually less severe. The pain slowly just comes as the day passes and as I am sitting at my desk staring at a computer screen all day (on a laptop in fact). In spite of that I do have some physical activity as I walk 1 or 2h per day at least. My question is the following: Is this pain a good sign or should I look at it as a warning sign that I need to change my practice? For example my posture could be rubbish but I don't know about it; unfortunately I don't have a teacher. I can only say that I have always felt unsure about the right alignment for my upper back... Any piece of advice would be much appreciated! Many thanks.

I saw a time lapse video recently of a guy holding the ball on YouTube and I liked the idea so much that I just had to do my own. ;-) It is faster by a factor 15.

How does Dr. Pang's Zhan Zhuang differ from Master Lam Kam Chuen's Zhan Zhuang? What difference does turning the toes inward make? My IT band is way to tight for that. Master Lam discourages the visualization of moving energy, but in 3 Centers one is to visualize energy entering through the head, hands, and feet then going into the lower dan tien.

Hi All, I am beginner Zhan Zhuang learner from India and learning my own using book Lam Kam Chuen book "Way of Energy". Looking for ZZ master in India but not been successful. My question is related to transitioning from Wuji to Holding the balloon posture. In book author ask to start in Wuji and then move to Holding the balloon posture. My Wuji posture is correct but when I lift my hands, my upper back moves back and stains the middle back. In his book he ask to move the body forward so that the pressure shifts forward in feet as compared to the wuji posture ( weight is spread out evenly in the whole feet). How do ZZ practitioner keep there back straight in Holding the balloon posture.? Does every one simply lift the hand in front of chest while moving from wuji to Holding the balloon and their back remains straight.? I don't have the same issue when I start ZZ practice directly from Holding the balloon. Thank you

Hi all, This looked like a really useful board to join as I’m trying to learn zhan zhuang and qigong and wanted to ask some questions about them (mainly Zhan Zhuang). I’m from Scotland, but live in Bangkok, and can’t find any qigong teachers here, so I am trying to learn on my own. A few people have pointed me towards videos and books, e.g., Lam Kam Chuen’s books and videos for Zhan Zhuang, and others have told me NOT to learn on my own as it can cause problems, so I’d like to dig a bit deeper on those issues because without a teacher, my only option is self-learning at the moment. Thanks Hermit

Hi everybody! I recently started practicing Zhan Zhuan from the book "The way of energy". I really enjoy it, but when I do the exercise "Holding the balloon", my arms start to feel really heavy and I have to stop every minute because of the pain. I know that it should go away after a while of practicing, but until then, can somebody give me some exercises to do in my spare time so I can be more confortable when doing the pose?

Hey Someone gave me this music to practice Zhan Zhuang, its supposed to help to open the channels I love it and would love to find the exact interprets and album so I can buy it in high res. Can somebody help me??? I found the name of the beginning music : Tai Chi Melody (Tai Ji Yun) · played by the China Film Folk Orchestra. But it's not the same interpretation... Thanks for your help :)) _Big_tree.mp3

I've noticed this pattern in most books about Qi-Gong: This kind of books start with a incredible story of their master or their own life, how they learned Qi-Gong beginning with standing meditation and then progressing versus a sitting meditation, eventually reaching mastery and the ability to transmit qi for healing. Then they teach several techniques to the reader, beginning with breathing technique, relaxation, maybe some more advanced techniques like microcosmic orbits and more deeper stuff. But it's funny why they mention standing meditation in the first few pages and then discard it when the practical part of the book starts. Instead they teach techniques which can never lead to success if the energy gates of the body are not opened or when the body is not able to produce abundantly enough qi for practicing the microcosmic orbit. From say 20 books I've read the last 20 years about Qi-Gong or "similar practices", only 4 of them stressed the importance of standing meditation. From this 4 books 2 was specialized in Zhan Zhuang and the other 2 on "water techniques". My own experience taught me that Zhan Zhuang is so effective in opening the meridians, that I practice now only this technique. The flow inside the meridians is stronger, blockages are dissolved on daily basis and I begin to feel something inside my dantien, which was impossible with other techniques before. Standing meditation involves the entire body and strengthens the core of the energy body. You cannot cheat (!!!!), which is super important and a perfect precondition for myself, because my imagination is strong and I could imagine that there is a flow if there is nothing. But if one can stand for one hour, than some success must have be achieved, right?! And we need a exercise that acts a qi-generator, building up enough qi to push through the meridians and dissolving blockages. How could a relaxation technique based on sitting and breathing ever lead to the point where one masters qi? The plausible explanation is, that the authors of this books are not real masters and so they don't know what they are writing about (highly probable) they try to keep a secret in plain sight, so that only the "worthy ones" will understand ... but dude, we have the year 2018 and the internet maybe it's a "cultural thing" to not tell everything to westerners (I cannot change my birth place, it was purely out of my control) they don't teach the important stuff in books, but you need to buy them a beer and then they will teach you the secret (masters are humans after all!) or maybe they really thought that we would understand ... and so they overestimated our intelligence. Anyway ... I hope that more qi-gong masters out there teach the "real" fundamental techniques and not super deep high advanced stuff that is only practicable by other masters.

I recently recorded myself doing zhan zhuang to analyze my session. Playing the video at about 4x speed, I can see a lot of movement in the lower back (I am moving the shoulders as well, but those more intentionally), which somewhat resembles nauli kriya to me . When doing zhan zhuang I can feel myself stretching the spine, creating more space between the vertebrae, and I usually think of breathing into my upper back. One question I have is whether in the practice of zhan zhuang such movements are desirable or whether more stillness is desirable instead. Any other feedback is welcomed.

My name is Jolanda, I think I was here before . Studying Daoism: learning from texts, reading books and scriptures, teaching and doing Tai Chi and Qigong, recitation, meditation, zhan zhuang, circle walk, letting go, returning ... In this moment my Daoist name is Xìn Rù, disciple of Liu De MIng. Living in the Netherlands, wanting to manifest a Dutch Daoist Center in the future, but then again, letting go of desires: just starting with welcoming people to learn, read, recitate and meditate with me, for recognizing the Dao, in a very simple Way ... through email, skype or facebook. Maybe starting a community - group on facebook, if there is interest.

In Prof. Yu Yong Nian's book "Zhan Zhuang" he considered opening the Microcosmic as a 'trap with no way out' (p.139) - on another page (couldn't find the quote again...) he talks about the 'circulation method' as kind of 'the devil's trap'. In a video (also promoting ZZ) another master said, that it is bad to open the Microcosmic deliberately, cause it makes one "obsessed". Why do ZZ experts consider this as evil? I opened the MCO almost two years ago and I have the impression, that my ZZ practice benefits from that. I can clearly feel the energy as a warm, sometimes even as a hot flow.

Hi all, First off is there any way to delete a topic on the mobile version of this site? All I see are options to edit posts. So I have started my journey of meditation, but I was wondering if it should be coupled with some form of weight training, or cardio. In Chia's Awaken Healing Light of the Tao, he says exercise is important, but that you lose chi when you get out of breath. Should I just get into the sauna as exercise and do some Zhan Zhaung in there? I dont know if Im ready for Chi Gong or how I would practice it because I dont have wifi so I can't watch youtube really. Any good books that teach Chi Gong? Also I enjoy running on the beach by my house. Should I do that or would it mess up my energy to be out of breath? I used to go to the gym a lot, but I am a small guy so I have to eat a ton to gain any weight. I really don't think I need to be gaining weight, I just liked the effects of the gym (increased testosterone, increased vascularity). What are you guys' opinion on these topics. I know theres already a post about weightlifting which I have read. P.S. Does anyone find Mantak Chia's 6 healing sounds or Inner Smile meditations useful?

Greetings. I need help. I am not very sure what to start and what to quit doing, but I've got to change something in my life. It's been about 6 months since I stopped trying hard, and tried to go back to basics. A short background: I've got very ill at the age of 19, after just about 2 months of living by myself in a new city. I hated the university, ate terribly, slept for 4-5 hours and practiced guitar for 10-12. Pretty soon I got stressed and depressed. Next I got carpal tunnel syndrome, inflammation of wrists and all the joints and muscles/tendons in my hands. Got more depressed. Few months later I ended up in hospital, because of severe stiffness of lower middle and upper back. Not able to sleep, not able to focus, had blurry vision, and was just awfully miserable. Shallow breath. Barely functioning. Oh I forgot. I had acute hyperacusis and tinnitus even prior to that. Nothing helped much, time healed some of the issues, to a certain degree. OK so 2 years later I did a 14 day water fast, followed by a 30 day water fast. Cured the inflammation, ears and back problems and CTS to about 70%. I'm finally able to use computer keyboard and even play guitar a little, which is nice. Cool but now I have some digestive issues(very fragile stomach) and have some trouble gaining weight( I'm 5'9'' and 118lbs). During the fast I felt a lot of tension around and below my navel. My stomach now is very sensitive and when I'm frightened or even surprised it hurts as if electrically shocked(previously I felt neck tension and head pain when under stress). I'm glad I'm so much more emotionally and mentally stable and don't have panic attacks and paranoia tendencies as I used to. I'm not depressed anymore. The downside is I'm still regaining strength 3 months after the fast and it's kinda slow. Still have a shallow breath and get exhausted pretty easily. I Think I need some sort of plan guys! If anybody could take time to address any of the following points, I would be most grateful. I feel somewhat stuck. No.1 Diet, sleep and basic activities. I've been following raw vegan fruit based diet since the fast and it was great for a number of reasons, but recently I started to see some limitations. Main problem is I guess lack of enough ripe fruit available here in Europe. So I started introducing cooked millet, potatoes, lentils and diary. Diary is fine, but over all I just feel week, lazy and lethargic. I tend to overeat on these things, since non of them is as satisfying as ripe fruit. It's really a pita. Will this last until I regain all my weight? I used to weigh about 75kg. I use cronometer.com and try to get about 3500-4000 calories daily now. I started following ayurveda for my dosha(vata) and it's amazing! Different foods like peppers, mushrooms eggplants, beans and other things always gave me problems, and now as I follow the guidelines I don't have to fear the food I'm eating lol. I try to get a litre of water before each meal, I can then eat normal sized portions. I try to sleep... as much as possible lol. In a few days I'm coming back to work. Walking around a warehouse picking up items for shipping( luckily not very strenuous). Anything to change here? Is the Chinese method of eating worth exploring?(Don't know anything about it, heard it's kinda complicated). Would it be a good idea to go to a Tibetan Medicine centre? I'm open. No.2 Meditation, Martial Arts and Qigong. I'll give you my goals: -fix my body posture( I have very weak back, slouch, my shoulders are tight and high. Shoulder blades stick out like crazy and it's hard to relax sitting or standing. -improve circulation(it used to be terrible before the fast, but still could be better), -spontaneity(you know in life, in guitar improvisation, even in conversation I feel the lack of flow) -Calm the fucking Dan Tien(lower, and perhaps middle I'm not sure my whole stomach is a mess recently) I'm trying Zhan Zhuang. Have the book The Way of Energy and watched the YT channel. I find it exhausting, even ust the1st position. I tried it a dozen of times over past few months and couldn't hold it for more than 3 minutes. It's appealing, I see the potential and acknowledge it is a foundation, but it's harder than this Anyway, the second I heard about Baguazhang, I didn't want to look back anymore. At anything, even Taiji. I'm sold for life. I don't know why, I'm totally mesmerised. Something about the spinning circle flowing motion... and I see myself as somebody who's trapped in cycles anyway so why not lol? Do you think it could be appropriate for someone like me? Right now? How can I find a teacher? Do you know anybody who does it in the Netherlands/Germany/Sweden? OR should I already start learning Chinese ? I understand it's even less popular then real Taiji. Is it really so rare? And before I find a teacher, would it be ok to learn from books/dvds or I'd be better off joining Taiji classes? One Taiji instructor I met even suggested I should go back to Karate and do that for some time, before I get into the internal styles and qigong... I'm confused. As for meditation, I always did like a simple body scan relaxation, or progressive muscle relaxation, and rarely got satisfying results. Only recently I had some success with BK Frantzis Taoist Meditation CD's. I'm sort of used now to breathing from the belly and the back and focusing on the Lower Dan Tien is kinda effective. I feel it. Still it's hard for me to stick to the practice. If I do it one day properly for few minutes, the next day don't even feel the interest and get bored easily if I try. It's like it stirs my body energy, and then I lose the drive to repeat the exercise. Same with Qigong massage I tried few days ago. I yawned like crazy, and didn't feel too good afterwords... I know I have a tendency to overdo everything, but for Dao's sake- is there anything I can practice for more than a minute and not feel totally exhausted??? I would really love to get into all the energy meditations, organ massages, moving and manipulating chi inside the body... you know, the fun stuff. How can I get there? What should I read? Most Importantly: what I SHOULDN'T be doing? What could hurt me? And again, how can I look for a teacher of meditation and qigong? I also occasionally do Trauma Releasing Exercises, which are awesome: Has anybody heard of this? And I'm also interested in the Alexander Technique... No.3 Would something like Initiation Into Hermetics by Francis Bardon or other such curriculum contribute in any way to my vitality? I'm still kind of clueless about all the occult stuff. Would appreciate some feedback on that as well. I'm interested in inducing trance on the fly. Why? I'm not sure. But you've got to be able to in order to play like Jimi Hendrix, am I wrong? I would also appreciate any magick and spiritual inspired fiction and "fiction" books. Novels perhaps. I really dug Carlos Castaneda a while ago. Finally, and this is minute but can you share with me what type of shoes and clothing do you use for walking, and practicing martial arts? I recently realized it also matters. What type of materials? I'd like to get some loose(traditional/modern Chinese perhaps) clothes that would be socially acceptable lol. Any good sites? Kinda love shopping To end this huge lament of a noob I'll just throw some titles on you and if you want share your thoughts on them( just your general opinion): Book of Five rings - Musashi Baguazhang - Hidden Knowledge in the Taoist Internal Martial Art Ywing-Ming-Yang-PHDThe-Root-of-Chinese-Chi-Kung The Complete System of Self-Healing by Dr. Stephen T. Chang Way of the inner smile by Michael Winn Daoist Body Cultivation by Livia Kohn Taoist Meditation by Thomas Cleary Becoming Te Iceman. Any recommendations? Peace. PS. Please excuse my English, I know it got a little rusty recently.

I'm looking for some videos which build on Lam Kam Chuen's excellent series ( ) I want to increase the duration of my practice and also learn some more advanced postures/internal work. I am aware I could do this without videos/with a teacher, but I'm specifically interested in practice videos - either online or to purchase. Any suggestions/recommendations? It doesn't have to be the same exact system, but I like the overall style and approach.

Hi all, Just wondered if anyone could send over recommendations for brief zhan zhuang routines. I've got some time freed up at lunchtime and would like ideas for a c.20minute ZZ session. Goals would be to complement my existing nei gong/meditation/qi gong practices i.e. gathering, feeling, directing qi, LDT work etc. I don't have any experience with ZZ, but imagine it's simple to learn and practice but challenging to perfect. If anyone has any suggestions for forms that would fit into this slot (With brief warm up/down if possible) I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks

Who else has experimented with standing in neck high water? What are your experiences?

Some of you may be familiar with the posture Standing in the Stream from Master Lam Kam Chuen's book The Way of Energy. Please see the photo below: I opened this book yesterday for the first time in a while and I felt drawn to this posture. When I did find myself in it later during a qigong session--WOW! I'm just curious, does anyone know which energy centers/meridian pathways this posture activates or works with? I'm just curious, but may also be useful for diagnostic purposes and treatment references down the road. Thanks!

Hi everyone, I'm starting to get into Daoism to preserve my health and extend my life. I first started with Mantak Chia's Healing Light of Tao but after reading the horror stories about people destroying their bodies with his techniques, I've started again with Lam Kam Chuen's Way of Energy which teaches Zhan Zhuang and the Eight Pieces of Brocade, using Damo Mitchell's Daoist Nei Gong to correct my posture. Are these good (safe) books? Any other recommendations? Thank you and I look forward to learning!

If you practice Zhan Zhuang, for how long do you stand?

Hello, Sorry this is long, but I've doing Zhan Zhuang alone for while and am reaching out with my experiences to see if they are normal. My name is Michael and I'm from Australia. I've gotten some handy inspiration and leads from reading this forum, so I also want to say thanks and hi. About two years ago I did some internal martial arts training for few months, until my work schedule changed and I couldn't make the classes at all. That was fine, I thought I would just do other styles of excersise. Time passed and gradually, I couldn't stop thinking about the brief Zhan Zhuang we did at the start of each class. They never went into much detail, other than saying it was important and to relax my shoulders more. Anyway I started doing it again, working up to half an hour. It left me feeling, on the whole, so good. Like a free massage, though sometimes my knees would ache a little. I stoped for a bit when things got hectic at work, but now I've started up again and things feel much more intense. My spine sometimes fills up with a feeling of pure pleasure that somehow feels golden in colour and radiates into the rest of my body. At other times, the solar plexus glows with a pleasure that fills my rib cages. Sometimes the area just under my belly button seems to hum softly with a feeling of ease. At other times my rib cage seems to suddenly relax and I spontaneously start breathing so deeply and freely and it just feels so good. Sometime when I breath out, my arms want to push out, and when I breath in they feel sucked in. There are so many bizzare things like this, the list could go on. When the pleasure arrives, I feel like I've been carrying around a burden for years and I've finally put it down. Of course at other times I do it and my mind does not settle and not much happens other than feeling a bit relaxed. Often it is just 30 mins of my brain saying 'Just put your arms down and stop,' or 'I think your timer is broken, you better stop and check or you could end up standing here all day' Each morning i feel like I'm heading off on an adventure, not sure what I'm going to see or feel, even though I'm just standing there 'holding the ball'. My questions are: are those pleasure experiences 'qi'? Is it wierd that sometimes they come and sometimes they don't? Am I meant to be doing anything other than relaxing while holding the posture, quietening the mind and seeing what happens? I've read that qi is felt as warmth, and sometimes my head, arms and hands feel warm, but those other experiences don't involve warmth really. Thanks for making it to the bottom of my post I'd appreciate your thoughts if you're willing. Michael.

I've been doing the very beginnings of zhan zhuang (according to Stand Still be Fit on youtube and The Way of Energy) for about 6 weeks. According to Lam Kam Chuen, it's ok to listen to music or a tv or radio program while practicing. I'm wondering what those of you who've practiced this (or even another relevant qigong method) have to say about this. Is it a distraction? A useful tool to get the time-keeper mind to shut up and just let the whole thing unfold? I think it's helping me get past some really early hurdles like "4 minutes in and I hate this" when I'm plugging along on my audio German lesson or listening to music that I know will end at the right time. I don't have to fight anything it seems. But I wonder if it short-circuits my ability to also pay attention to what's going on in the body. Any drawbacks to this? Thanks!