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Now you might accuse me of flogging an already dead horse, but I'd like to suggest that "this" is not the same as the "horse" that is considered already dead. The Vedantic Atman is not the same as that which is considered "self" in the general sense of the word. Atman and Nairatman (Anatta) is a massive "bone of contention" between Advaita Vedanta and Bauddha dharma, but it is rooted in half-understood concepts of what specifically Atman means from the point of view of Advaita Vedanta. In Vedanta there is the concept of Jiva (a generic concept found in other systems of Hindu Dharma as well). Jiva literally means "living being". The key features of Jiva are as follows -- Jiva is born and therefore must die (has a beginning and an end) Jiva the personality that transmigrates from one lifetime to another (or in other words, re-incarnates) Jiva comprises of the five sheaths or panchakoshas -- the annamaya kosha or the sheath of food (anna means rice, literally), or the physical body The pranamaya kosha or the sheath of prana (life force), or the energy body the manomaya kosha or the sheath of the mind, or the mental body the vijnanamaya kosha or the sheath of the intellect the anandamaya kosha or the sheath of bliss As one goes from outward focus (of the mind) to inward focus (towards finding the source of the mind), one encounters each of these sheaths or layers in meditation. Just as one clearly experiences and operates with their physical body and the thinking mind, one also experiences their energy body, their intellect (which is different from the mind in the indic tradition) or even the blissful nature at a higher level of experience. The jiva predicates Ishwara, or God as the source of creation. With the help of the mind, body and intellect, jiva lives it's limited life, with one of several (or combinations thereof) of positions - There is no ishwara and all of this (material world) is a result of happen-chance interaction of matter. There is an Ishwara who is the creator, maintainer and destroyer and one's actions in their lifetime predicates whether they go to heaven (eternal joy and pleasure) or hell (eternal suffering and pain). This type follow specific doctrinal guidelines which are purported to be resultant in their being able to go to heaven or hell, depending on how faithfully they have followed said doctrines. There is an Ishwara who does create, maintain and destroy the universe, but the Jiva has the ability to unite with this Ishwara through devotion, right action, yoga, etc etc. They still hold a separation between themselves and Ishwara, and their union with Ishwara is that of a benevolent Lord and devotee (or a parent and child). Atman points to something else completely. Unlike the limited nature of the jiva who lives in a body, and depending on one's belief -- transmigrates across lifetimes or goes to heaven or hell for eternity or starts as matter and ends as matter, the Atman -- is pure subject predicate, without which no manifestion can happen. At least that much is verifiable intellectually, from an "individual" perspective. It is neither a soul nor a personality. It is pure consciousness. It is empty as it is not a thing which takes up space or exists in time. However, both space and time appear in it. It is not something that can be experienced using the normal faculties and apparatuses (like the mind and the inner and outer senses). It can be directly known - Aparoksha Anubhuti. What Emptiness means in this case, is that it is empty of "thing"ness. It cannot be captured with any of the sensory apparatuses. It cannot be described by the mind. If the mind tries to find it, it fails and finds only stillness and silence instead. The question that many people ask is "if that is the case, why call it Atman or Self?". The answer is because there is nothing more intimate than this. It is the root and the basis of everything we know. Knowing (with the mind and intellect) cannot be without it. What else can something so intimate be called? That which is called "nairatman or Anatta" is the jiva itself. It is the non-self. Atman is the selfless Self. It is the lightless light. However, it must be pointed out that ultimately, the Jiva is not different or separate from the Atman, because then, that would clearly be dualistic in nature. Jiva is a phenomenon that occurs as a result of mistaken identification with one of the five koshas, and primarily the lower 3 koshas. More questions follow after this -- Why does that happens? It doesn't really happen. It only appears to happen... How can you explain the fact that you (and others) wrote so many pages and commentaries on this topic. If it doesn't really happen, who and what is writing, and who and what is reading this? The appearance of separate beingness (jiva) is reading this. The jiva who appears to have been awakened, is writing this. So the Self is reading what the Self has written. Or no one is reading nothing, ultimately. It doesn't really matter In my humble opinion and experience, irrespective of what one sees or experiences, the root of one's consciousness in the manifest state, is the "I-ness" (aka I AM or I-I). This exists as witness to all things rising and falling, and staying with it, all things appear as part of it itself. The road, the landscapes, sky, people, animals, trees etc all are it's very own Self. This I have experienced before starting with the mind expansions and also after the mind expanded. This root does not change -- it remains empty and ever-present.

Upanishads are the basis for Indian schools of thought. Of this Brihadaranyaka Upanishad and Chandogya upanishad are the oldest. These are the earliest available literature in India which teach non-duality. I have been reading these texts for the past few days and I came across this wonderful section, which is the 6th part of Chandogya Upanishad. I found it very impressive and it brought tears in my eyes as I read it. So, I am sure you will enjoy this as well. I am posting the entire 6th part here... Chapter I − The Non−Duality of the Self 1 Om. There once lived Svetaketu the grandson of Aruna. To him his father said: "Svetaketu, lead the life of a brahmacharin; for there is none belonging to our family, my dear, who, not having studied the Vedas, is a brahmin only by birth." 2−3 Svetaketu went to his teacher’s house when he was twelve years old and studied the Vedas till he was twenty−four. Then he returned to his father, serious, considering himself well read and arrogant. His father said to him: "Svetaketu, since you are now so serious, think yourself well read and are so arrogant, have you, my dear, ever asked for that instruction by which one hears what cannot be heard, by which one perceives what cannot be perceived, by which one knows what cannot be known?" Svetaketu asked: "What is that instruction, venerable Sir?" 4−6 "Just as, my dear, by one clod of clay all that is made of clay is known, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the truth is that all is clay; "Just as, my dear, by one nugget of gold all that is made of gold is known, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the truth is that all is gold; "And just as, my dear, by one pair of nail−scissors all that is made of iron is known, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the truth is that all is iron−even so, my dear, is that instruction." 7 "Surely those venerable men did not know that. For if they had known it, why should they not have told it to me? Therefore do you, venerable Sir, tell me about it." "So be it, my dear," said the father. Chapter II − Brahman: the Cause of the Universe 1 "In the beginning, my dear, this universe was Being (Sat) alone, one only without a second. Some say that in the beginning this was non−being (asat) alone, one only without a second; and from that non−being, being was born." 2 Aruni said: "But how, indeed, could it be thus, my dear? How could Being be born from non−being? No, my dear, it was Being alone that existed in the beginning, one only without a second. 3 "It (Being, or Brahman) thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created fire. That fire thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created water. That is why, whenever a person is hot and perspires, water is produced from fire (heat) alone. 4 "That water thought: ‘May I be many; may I grow forth.’ It created food (i.e. earth). That is why, whenever it rains anywhere, abundant food is produced. From water alone is edible food produced. Chapter III − The Threefold Development 1 "Of all these living beings, there are only three origins: those born from an egg, those born from a living being and those born from a sprout. 2 "That Deity thought: ‘Let Me now enter into those three deities by means of this living self and let Me then develop names and forms.’ 3 "That Deity, having thought: ‘Let Me make each of these three tripartite,’ entered into these three deities by means of the living self and developed names and forms. 4 "It made each of these tripartite; and how these three deities became, each of them, tripartite, that learn from me now, my dear. Chapter IV − The Threefold Development further explained 1 "The red colour of gross fire is the colour of the original fire; the white colour of gross fire is the colour of the original water; the black colour of gross fire is the colour of the original earth. Thus vanishes from fire what is commonly called fire, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the three colours (forms) alone are true. 2 "The red colour of the sun is the colour of fire, the white the colour of water, the black the colour of earth. Thus vanishes from the sun what is commonly called the sun, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the three colours alone are true. 3 "The red colour of the moon is the colour of fire, the white the colour of water, the black the colour of earth. Thus vanishes from the moon what is commonly called the moon, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the three colours alone are true. 4 "The red colour of lightning is the colour of fire, the white the colour of water, the black the colour of earth. Thus vanishes from lightning what is commonly called lighting, the modification being only a name, arising from speech, while the three colours alone are true. 5 "It was just through this knowledge that the great householders and great Vedic scholars of olden times declared: ‘No one can now mention to us anything which we have not heard, thought of, or known.’ They knew all from these three forms. 6−7 "Whatever, appeared red they knew to be the colour of fire; whatever appeared white they knew to be the colour of water; whatever appeared black they knew to be the colour of earth. "Whatever appeared to be unknown they knew to be the combination of these three deities (i.e. colours). Now learn from me, my dear, how these three deities, when they reach man, become each of them tripartite. Chapter V − The Threefold Nature of Food 1 "Food when eaten becomes threefold. What is coarsest in it becomes faeces, what is medium becomes flesh and what is subtlest becomes mind. 2 "Water when drunk becomes threefold. What is coarsest in it becomes urine, what is medium becomes blood and what is subtlest becomes prana. 3 "Fire when eaten becomes threefold. What is coarsest in it becomes bone, what is medium becomes marrow and what is subtlest becomes speech. 4 "The mind, my dear, consists of food, the prana of water and speech of heat." "Please, venerable Sir, instruct me further." "So be it, my dear" Chapter VI − The Physical Nature of the Mind, the Prana and Speech 1 "That, my dear, which is the subtlest part of curds rises, when they are churned and becomes butter. 2 "In the same manner, my dear, that which is the subtlest part of the food that is eaten rises and becomes mind. 3 "The subtlest part of the water that is drunk rises and becomes prana. 4 "The subtlest part of the fire that is eaten rises and becomes speech. "Thus, my dear, the mind consists of food, the prana consists of water and speech consists of fire." "Please, venerable Sir, instruct me further." "So be it, my dear" Chapter VII − How the Mind consists of Food 1 "A person, my dear, consists of sixteen parts. Do not eat any food for fifteen days, but drink as much water as you like. Since the prana consists of water, it will not be cut off if you drink water." 2 Svetaketu did not eat any food for fifteen days. Then he came to his father and said: "What, Sir, shall I recite?" His father said: "The Rik, Yagus and Saman verses." He replied: "They do not occur to me, Sir." 3 His father said to him: "Just as, my dear, of a great blazing fire a single coal, the size of a firefly, may be left, which would not burn much more than that, even so, my dear, of your sixteen parts only one part is left; and therefore with that one part you do not remember the Vedas. Now go and eat and you will understand me." 4 Svetaketu ate and approached his father. Then whatever his father asked him, he showed that he knew it. 5−6 Then his father said to him: "Just as, my dear, of a great lighted fire a single coal the size of a firefly, if left, may be made to blaze up again by adding grass to it and will thus burn much more, "Even so, my dear; of your sixteen parts only one part was left and that, when strengthened by food, blazed up. With it you now remember the Vedas. Therefore, my dear, the mind consists of food, the prana consists of water and speech consists of fire." After that he understood what his father said, yea, he understood it. Chapter VIII − Concerning Sleep, Hunger, Thirst, and Death 1 Uddalaka the son of Aruna said to his son Svetaketu: "Learn from me, my dear, the true nature of sleep. When a person has entered into deep sleep, as it is called, then, my dear, he becomes united with Pure Being (Sat), he has gone to his own Self. That is why they say he is in deep sleep (svapiti); it is because he has gone (apita) to his own (svam). 2 "Just as a bird tied by a string to the hand of the bird−catcher first flies in every direction and then finding no rest anywhere, settles down at the place where it is bound, so also the mind (i.e. the individual soul reflected in the mind), my dear, after flying in every direction and finding no rest anywhere, settles down in the Prana (i.e. Pure Being); for the mind (the individual soul) is fastened to the Prana (Pure Being). 3 "Learn from me, my dear, what hunger and thirst are. When a man is hungry, as they say, it is water that has led (i.e. carried away) what was eaten. Therefore, just as they speak of a leader of cows, a leader of horses, a leader of men, so do they speak of water as the leader of food. So, my dear, know this offshoot (i.e. the body) to have sprung forth from a cause, for it cannot be without a root. 4 "And where could its root be except in food (earth) ? And in the same way, my dear, as food too is an offshoot, seek for water as its root. And as water too, my dear, is an offshoot, seek for fire as its root. And as fire too, my dear, is an offshoot, seek for Being (Sat) as its root. Yes, all these creatures, my dear, have their root in Being, they dwell in Being, they finally rest in Being. 5 "When a man is said to be thirsty, it is fire that has led (i.e. carried away) what was drunk by him. Therefore as they speak of a leader of cows, a leader of horses, a leader of men, so do they speak of fire as the leader of water. So, my dear, know this offshoot (the body) to have sprung forth from a cause, for it cannot be without a root. 6 "And where could its root be except in water? And in the same way, my dear, as water is an offshoot, seek for fire as its root. And as fire too, my dear, is an offshoot, seek for Being as its root. Yes, my dear, all these creatures have their root in Being, they dwell in Being, they finally rest in Being. "And how these three deities (fire, water and earth), on reaching a human being, become each of them tripartite has already been said. When a person departs hence, his speech merges in his mind, his mind in his prana, his prana in heat (fire) and the heat in the Highest Being. 7 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter IX − The Absence of Individuality in Deep Sleep 1−2 "As bees, my dear, make honey by collecting the juices of trees located at different places and reduce them to one form, "And as these juices have no discrimination so as to be able to say: ‘I am the juice of this tree,’ or ‘I am the juice of that tree’−even so, indeed, my dear, all these creatures, though they reach Pure Being, do not know that they have reached Pure Being. 3 "Whatever these creatures are, here in this world−a tiger, a lion, a wolf, a boar, a worm, a fly, a gnat, or a mosquito−that they become again. 4 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter X − The Absence of Particularized Consciousness in Deep Sleep 1−2 "These rivers, my dear, flow−the eastern toward the east and the western toward the west. They arise from the sea and flow into the sea. Just as these rivers, while they are in the sea, do not know: ‘I am this river’ or ‘I am that river,’ "Even so, my dear, all these creatures, even though they have come from Pure Being, do not know that they have come from Pure Being. Whatever these creatures are, here in this world−a tiger, a lion, a wolf a boar, a worm, a fly, a gnat, or a mosquito, that they become again. 3 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter XI − The Indestructibility of the Jiva 1 "If, my dear, someone were to strike at the root of this large tree here, it would bleed but live. If he were to strike at the middle, it would bleed but live. If he were to strike at the top, it would bleed but live. Pervaded by the living self, that tree stands firm, drinking in again and again its nourishment and rejoicing. 2 "But if the life (i.e. living self) leaves one of its branches, that branch withers; if it leaves a second, that branch withers; if it leaves a third, that branch withers. If it leaves the whole tree, the whole three withers. 3 "In exactly the same manner, my dear," said he, "know this: This body dies, bereft of the living self; but the living self dies not. "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter XII − The Birth of the Gross from the Subtle 1 "Bring me a fruit of that nyagrodha (banyan) tree." "Here it is’ venerable Sir." "Break it." "It is broken, venerable Sir." "What do you see there?" "These seeds, exceedingly small, "Break one of these, my son." "It is broken, venerable Sir." "What do you see there?" "Nothing at all, venerable Sir." 2 The father said: "That subtle essence, my dear, which you do not perceive there−from that very essence this great nyagrodha arises. Believe me, my dear. 3 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter XIII − The Invisibility of an Existent Object 1 "Place this salt in water and then come to me in the morning." The son did as he was told. The father said to him: "My son, bring me the salt which you placed in the water last night." Looking for it, the son did not find it, for it was completely dissolved. 2 The father said: "My son, take a sip of water from the surface. How is it?" "It is salt." "Take a sip from the middle. How is it?" "It is salt." "Take a sip from the bottom. How is it?" "It is salt." "Throw it away and come to me." The son did as he was told, saying: "The salt was there all the time." Then the father said: "Here also, my dear, in this body you do not perceive Sat (Being); but It is indeed there." 3 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter XIV − The Means of Self−Knowledge 1 "Just as someone, my dear, might lead a person, with his eyes covered, away from the country of the Gandharas and leave him in a place where there were no human beings; and just as that person would turn toward the east, or the north, or the south, or the west, shouting: ‘I have been brought here with my eyes covered, I have been left here with my eyes covered!’ 2 "And as thereupon someone might loosen the covering and say to him: ‘Gandhara is in that direction; go that way’; and as thereupon, having been informed and being capable of judgement, he would, by asking his way from one village to another, arrive at last at Gandhara−in exactly the same manner does a man who has found a teacher to instruct him obtain the true knowledge. For him there is delay only so long as he is not liberated from the body; then he reaches perfection. 3 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son. "So be it, my dear," the father replied. Chapter XV − Ultimate Liberation 1 "Around a dying person afflicted with illness, my dear, his relatives gather and ask: ‘Do you know me? Do you know me?’ He knows them as long as his speech is not merged in his mind, his mind in his prana (breath), his prana in heat (fire) and the heat in the Highest Deity. 2 "But when his speech is merged in his mind, his mind in his prana, his prana in heat and the heat in the Highest Deity, then he does not know them. 3 "Now, that which is the subtle essence−in it all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." "Please, venerable Sir, give me further instruction," said the son "So be it, my dear;" the father replied. Chapter XVI − Liberation for the Knower of Brahman 1 "My dear, they (i.e. the police) bring a man whom they have seized by the hand and say: ‘He has taken something, he has committed a theft.’ When he denies it, they say: ‘Heat the axe for him.’ If he has committed the theft but denies it, then he makes himself a liar. Being false−minded, he covers himself with falsehood, grasps the heated axe and is burnt. Then he is killed. 2 "But if he did not commit the theft, then he makes himself what he really is. Being true−minded, he covers himself with truth, grasps the heated axe and is not burnt. He is released. 3 "As that truthful man is not burnt so also one who has known Sat is not born again. Thus in That (Sat) all that exists has its self. That is the True. That is the Self. That thou art, Svetaketu." − Source: http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-chhandogya_upanishad.pdf

In context of self-inquiry and self-realization, when one starts down this path, one is ignorant of their self-nature (this ignorance is called avidya). The ignorance is because one identifies as their "Self", the body and mind, and the various things that the body-mind allegedly possesses and does (profession, possessions, passions, talents, skills, so on and so forth). So one might say, they are blissfully unaware of the "reality" and live mired in drama of samsara. As one starts the journey of self-inquiry, eventually they will encounter the fact that all that they had previously thought of as being their "self" is not actually that at all. Not everyone gets there quickly. Some suffer and struggle as a result of the inherent lack of knowledge of the fact that, IT, that which observes the body, mind and the countless objects of the universe ebb and flow, is the Self. But this Self has no properties that can be really observed, as it is the very subject that is the source of all experience, and all objects. In the period between embarking on this path and realizing what one truly is, is a painful period (at least was for me). It is rife with suffering of a special kind (some call it the "dark night of the soul"). It really is a "trial by fire", a "rite of passage" and paying debts with "blood"...but I wouldn't have it any other way, in retrospect. However, what drives me to write about this, is the news of that poor kid who committed suicide after going to a vipasana retreat for a week. That was really tragic. But we know that karma has a role to play here. As I reflect upon my "suffering" during the period when I was clearly in witness state and yet did not know my real identity (or a lack thereof, in the common sense), it was a struggle. I was unable to stand crowded places, unable to look people in the eye as the contents of my mind would rise forth as I was having a conversation with them and "negative" thoughts involving them would fleet through my brain. I truly thought I was a bad person, as a result of the contents of my mind (and habits that were driven by the stuff I was living on - social, nutritional, etc). As a result of this (for almost 6 years), I struggled every day. I would still stubbornly do my taiji forms, my standing meditations, my yoga asanas, pranayama, etc. As much as I knew that if I stopped these things, I would probably over time go back to being blissfully more ignorant, or oblivious; still, I could not stop. Eventually, I entered a phase, where I grew numb and oblivious to the world around me. It didn't matter whether I had a job or not. Whether I was with my family or not. Even whether I did my practice or not. During this period, I would intermittently stop practice and then start again, when I felt like it. Maybe, I was comfortably numb. In retrospect, becoming numb actually helped me handle the energies and process the goings on. But then my first teacher moved (it was his guidance and twice a week of contact (for several years) that kept me sane during this period and kept me going), and introduced me to Master Jose. Even before meeting Master, I had met him in dreams and he worked on me (for stuff I had asked him to help me with). When I finally met him in person, and he transferred his consciousness to me with a touch of his index finger to my 3rd eye, he literally kicked my butt across the line and I spent about 15 days subsequent to that in a state of ecstasy/bliss. After that, for almost another year and a half, I stayed in a split state of being completely Self-aware and in the local-mind/ego state (Master calls it the Spiritual Mind and the local mind). During this period, for the most part, the Ego was unable to flex its muscles - it stayed a humble servant to the spiritual mind. And around 6 months after meeting master, my friend who had seemed like a died-in-wool materialist started practicing self-inquiry too, in the classical advaita vedanta mode. As he and I started discussing this, I started to try and articulate what was happening to me, to explain in words my "experiences". This started a process of categorization and rationalization, which resulted in my "dropping out of the split-state" eventually. There was a decay going on, as the old habits and grooves started to re-appear. I was rather depressed as I realized that, thinking "huh! I knew that it was too good to be true...". So I asked Master, to which he said "two things are happening. Your body is getting used to the energy and emptiness and old habits are re-appearing. But this is the opportunity for you to work through them and get back to the blissful state". And true to his word, the return to bliss is working, steadily and surely. The old "cold and indifferent" state (Stone Buddha?) has been replaced by awareness of the awareness of being, which is so completely ordinary, that I would have never even imagined that it is that way. We read so many glorified and idealized descriptions of this becoming "Self-aware" that it is almost anti-climactic when the realization occurs. And along with that realization the other thing that happens is the realization that there is no moment that one is not that (Self). Old habits and samskaras that used to bother me quite intensely, have become amusing. The "blissful" state is really a non-state. It is always there. It is just that before the mind-body identification had so total a hold on me, that it was constantly masked (except for those fleeting moments when the mind would stop). I won't even say that the mind stops completely. Just that, by being aware of the etherealness of the mind and not identifying with the body, the background looms large and it's ever-present nature is apparent. This too is a stage, I know now. The dive is going to keep getting deeper...

There have been conversations about "enlightenment" and how and whether a truly liberated jivanamukta (freed from cycle of reincarnation while in living body) can function in the world. http://www.advaitin.net/Subrahmanian/Avidya_lesha.pdf Quoting a part of the larger pdf linked to in this post...

This is relevant to discussions with both Jeff and Jonesboy.

Brahman comes from the sanskrit root sound "Brh". Brh means to expand. I observed a great expansion springing forth from a point of resting in the "I" or the "I AM" feeling. But this expansion is also non-expansion (if that makes sense). The mind expands constantly, springing forth from the "I" and creating the manifest reality. But the "I" is still, silent. Thoughts?

The following is a twitter blog by Pradeep Apte called, "The Parabrahman." It consists of 221 tweets he put together. I've taken the liberty of correcting a few textual errors, and marking some divisions for easier reading. It's posted here in 4 sections... Please quote and comment freely. 1. With the grace of the Guru Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, who is the “Sadguru Parabrahman”, Parabrahman tweets… 2. Right now, right here, while reading this, you are Parabrahman. The essence of Vedic science can be experienced directly and immediately. 3. As Parabrahman you are always there, yet unseen. Without the Sadguru’s teaching you can never ‘see’ yourself. 4. As these tweets proceed, always remember throughout that Parabrahman, Sadguru and the Guru Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj are all the same. 5. The direct teaching first, if you are spiritually mature enough to grasp it in one or few more re-readings, instantly you are Parabrahman. 6. The Guru says “You are Parabrahman and nothing else”. Accept it with great conviction and all that appears will seem to be palpably false. 7. I am the Parabrahman only! Adhere to this fundamental principle. 8. Accepting the Guru’s words with total conviction can transform your entire destiny, entire life. 9. The deep sense in you that ‘I am’ must accept that you are Parabrahman, not the mind. For that remain focused on the ‘I am’ without words. 10. By remaining focused or meditating on the ‘I am’ you become a witness to it and then, you stand apart as Parabrahman. 11. Only a non-illusory state can know the illusory state. The no-being state is the Parabrahman. 12. Brahman is manifest; Parabrahman is beyond or prior to that. Parabrahman is prior to consciousness or ‘I am’, it means the unborn state. 13. The eternal means: the Unborn. The truth is like that. The eternal is like that. 14. The one who recognizes all these time-bound stages is beyond time, is prior to time. Stay put there as the Parabrahman. 15. When knowing is transformed into not-knowing, that is liberation, you are Parabrahman. 16. Directly realize Parabrahman and finally know that nothing ever came to be. Thus rest in not-knowing with no need to know or read anymore. 17. Rare is the one bestowed with an extra-ordinary spiritual acumen to grasp the truth and realize Parabrahman at once or in a short while. 18. Such rare embodiments of truth, for the sake of the less fortunate ones, elaborate the teachings on Parabrahman as experienced by them. 19. We proceed with the teachings imparted by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj through his dialogues using the Dasbodh by Swami Ramdas as a guideline. 20. The Dasbodh verse 51/sub-chapter 3/Chapter 8/ forms the very basis of the entire teaching of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. 21. “In the attributeless still expanse of Reality (Parabrahman) the inspiration ‘I Am’ arose. This is itself the primal illusion.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22. Before elaborating on this, just for the sake of a new reader, or even the old one who wishes to brush up his fundamentals – a recap. 23. Knowledge means Self-knowledge where the Self sees only itself. This is called real or pure knowledge or “Jnana”. The Self is Parabrahman. 24. Primarily this means to know God. Knowledge is to reflect deeply upon the Eternal and the ephemeral and know one’s true “Self” (Swaroopa). 25. Nothing is found in the world as pure as Self-knowledge. As long as Self-knowledge is not clear everything is meaningless and useless. 26. The four stages towards Self-knowledge are, the Bound (Baddha), the Seeker (Mumukshu), the Aspirant (Sadhaka) and the Realized One (Siddha). 27. One can judge for oneself at which stage one is, only the One with Self-knowledge, the Siddha, can truly be said to be liberated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28. Liberation, though a single step, is divided into four stages for understanding only: Swalokata, Samipata, Swaroopata, and Sayujya Mukti. 29. Swalokata means to live in the abode of God, Samipata means to live very close to God and Swaroopata means to appear like God. 30. In Sayujya Mukti one merges with God. It is ‘liberation as complete identification with the Self’, with no traces of any duality at all. 31. Liberation is a single movement of disappearance (of the false self or ego) and no clear boundaries can be drawn between these stages. 32. Understand well that the first three stages are reversible and one can fall back to old ways but Sayujya Mukti in irreversible and forever. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33. To acquire Self-knowledge or Parabrahman, meditation is the only way in which it can be done by the two main-stream teachings: Yoga and Vedanta. 34. In Yoga and Vedanta, meditation is a mental process by which the meditator becomes one with the object of meditation. 35. Concentration (dharana) is the preliminary stage, which when it becomes effortless and continuous takes the form of meditation (dhyana). 36. When the mind continuously flows towards its object, meditation culminates in total absorption (samadhi) in the object of meditation. 37. The sacred texts define concentration as one-pointed focus on any object, internal or external. 38. On focusing the mind uninterruptedly for twelve seconds on a specific object, we are said to achieve one unit of concentration. 39. Twelve such successive units of concentration make one unit of meditation, and twelve such successive units of meditation lead to Samadhi. 40. Concentration, meditation and absorption are the three depths of meditation which culminates in absorption into the object meditated upon. 41. The teachings of Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and the Dasbodh are essentially of Vedanta, so the Yoga system is only briefly described here. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42. To attain the goal of Self-realization, the Yoga system employs an eight-fold system of practice consisting of eight steps or ‘limbs’. 43. The first five are restraint (yama), discipline (niyama), posture (asana), control of breath (pranayam) and withdrawal of mind (pratyahara). 44. The next three are concentration (dharana), meditation (dhyana) and absorption (Samadhi) already described in earlier tweets. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 45. Meditation according to Vedanta is an intense form of worship (upasana) which eventually leads to the direct perception of Parabrahman. 46. The Vedantic practices for meditation are divided into two groups: foundational and structural. 47. In Vedanta, success in structural practices is proportional to the success in foundational practices. 48. The four foundational disciplines are: discrimination, dispassion, mastery over six virtues and intense longing for liberation. 49. Discrimination is between the real and the unreal and dispassion means giving up all desires, whether for this world or the next. 50. Of the six virtues to be mastered the first three are: control of mind, control of senses and withdrawal of mind from sense objects. 51. The next three to be mastered are: fortitude, faith in the words of the Guru and scriptures and concentration of the mind upon Brahman. 52. The essence of the six virtues is self-control, without which the quest for Self-knowledge is an empty dream. 53. Intense longing for liberation is most crucial as its intensity determines the achievement of the goal which is, Parabrahman. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 54. The three steps of meditation in Vedanta are: hearing (shravana), reflecting (manana) and meditation (nididhyasana). 55. Hearing is listening to the teachings of the Guru, reflecting is thinking constantly on the teachings heard from the Guru. 56. Meditation is constantly doing the practice (sadhana) as prescribed by the Guru to the exclusion of all other ideas or thoughts. 57. Meditation practiced earnestly without interruption for a long time, with intense love for the chosen ideal, culminates in samadhi. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 58. When Samadhi is with effort due to mental disturbances it is savikalpa, when these disturbances are absent it is nirvikalpa. 59. The immersion of the mind in the Self without its complete destruction (manolaya) is Kevala Nirvikalpa Samadhi. 60. With the mind destroyed (manonasa) and remaining permanently in the primal pure state without effort is Sahaja Nirvikapla Samadhi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been reading arguments about what comprises a "sage" in the non-dualism perspective. The two options (perhaps there are a few more) are as follows - A sage is one who is free from the bondage of samsara, because they have realized their innate nature, and know without any iota of doubt that this innate nature is non-dual. All concepts and perceptions are merely projections of itself (Objectless Consciousness) on itself, and are ultimately devoid of "realness". Knowing this, the sage doesn't attach to any position (conceptions) and remains an atemporal and non-spatial presence, free from suffering (attachment to pleasures or rejection of pains). A sage is one who is free from the bondage of Samsara, but "vows" to turn their back from the above realization, and work towards the liberation of all other beings, using their now realized freedom to harness infinite power in this universe, and effect changes as needed - become a "ruler" sage. My contention is as follows - Once the Sage realizes that they are absolutely and unequivocally Non-Dual, there is no scope for the will of an independent infinite being that does actions to affect the limited beings (who are not yet realized). Any action that they do as an individual being (however unlimited their power might be) is going to be in the domain of dualism and therefore limited (because the domain of dualism is limited). Such an individual might be what is called "Ishvara" (God) or an Avatar etc etc, but they too are limited in nature (as its the limitation of the upadhi - limiting adjunct - the body, etc). They might be able to bend the "normal" rules (of space and time), but ultimately if they choose to remain bound in space and time (by opting to "bend" the rules), they remain dualistic. On the other hand, if a body-mind complex (Jiva) who is liberated (Jivanamukta) does not act of a limited volition, but all action becomes just happenings in the dualistic world (happenstance), then that qualifies as non-action (wu wei, nishkama karma) and therefore outside the bounds of karma and the mechanism of duality (maya). Happy to read more thoughts on this topic...I hope I wasn't clear as mud

Vedanta philosophy is an Indian Philosophy from the end portions of the Vedas. Vedanta also means the ultimate knowledge or End of knowledge since there is nothing more beyond it to learn in life. What is that knowing which there is nothing else to be learned? Being born as human beings, it is the prerogative of every individual to know what is the purpose of life and what is that which is the source and cause of their life. In Vedanta we know it as the Supreme Self or God or Divinity or Truth, which is the enlivening principle, the very source, cause and support of life in all living beings. The purpose of life is explained as achieving Self Realization or achieving God consciousness. How does spirituality help us in life? Spirituality or Vedanta is primarily about rediscovering our original true identity of Divinity or Supreme self or Godhead within and giving up our false and wrong identification with the Body, Mind, Intellect and Ego. All our lifetime we waste our life in extroversion believing that we are merely the limited restricted beings of Body, mind, Intellect and Ego due to our ignorance of the Supreme Self. Vedanta clears this ignorance and lets us lead a meaningful life of spiritual enlightenment and material prosperity as well. Spirituality helps us lead a principled life of self discipline and righteousness. Spirituality or Vedanta aids in developing an awareness of the various personality layers, subtle faculties and also help us with spiritual practices to achieve the ultimate purpose of human life and human existence called Self Realization. What other benefits do we gain by spirituality or study of Vedanta? Vedanta gives incisive insights into the truth and realities of life. It develops noble qualities like self control or control of the senses, objectivity, self sufficiency, humility, non hatred towards all the beings of the world, forgiveness, Dexterity, cleanliness, etc. Above everything it renders the personality with clarity in thinking, free from egoism and desires of the Mind for sensuality and materialistic pursuits. By this, the individual leads a life of duty consciousness, selfless service, sacrifice, universal love, proper discrimination that helps develop and practice good sense of values along with appropriate sense of proportion. The result of all these is that the individual leads well balanced life of equipoise, mental equanimity, perfect judgement, unbiased and impartial outlook towards life and enjoys playing his / her own different roles in life with perfect harmony with laws and designs of Divine Providence and Mother nature. Such a life alone is purposeful

Hi Everyone, I am your latest member and and happy to introduce myself. My interest is in Vedanta philosophy and would like to actively engage with all of you on various questions and opinions I have. I am very much interested in knowing your opinions. Best Regards

In another thread, I noticed one commentator was waxing eloquent about the role of Reasoning. So to that I posed the question - What is it that gives us the ability to reason? Let me elaborate further with a series of questions. We interact with our world using the sensory apparatuses and our mind (via thought). Reasoning is integral part of the thinking/function of the mind. That being said, what gives us the ability to sense? What gives us the ability to think?

http://www.astrojyoti.com/sandilyaupanishad.htm

This is an article by a wonderful human being and a brilliant philosopher friend of mine - Prof. Antonio De Nicolas... http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/i_es/i_es_denic_self_frameset.htm

I haven't listened to all of these, but I'm working through Saddarshanam by Ramana Maharshi. Anyone interested in old school Advaita Vedanta might enjoy these. Saddarshanam is taught by Carol Whitfield, a disciple of Swami Dayananda. http://www.arshakulam.org/archives.html

Reading through the Nisargadatta Maharaj thread I noticed that the subject of what "I am" is was broached. Most assumptions/assessment of the "I" and the "I am" in case of Advaita Vedanta are based on incomplete or incorrect knowledge of the technical terms there in. There are the terms - "paramatman/ishwara and jiva" and then there is "brahman and atman". Since Advaita Vedanta very correctly demarcates the two levels/degrees of reality/existence, it is therefore an incorrect premise to assume that the "I" (or Atman or Self) that is being referred to in AV is actually the Egoic self (or Jiva). In the traditional sense, the Jiva is that which lives (and as a corollary thereof, ceases to live). It therefore is in the realm of vyavaharika (mundane) reality. Atman is that which is Paramartha (absolute/ultimate). The vyavaharika level is dualistic and there is a separation between the Jiva and Ishwara and everything else in existence (or the living being and God). In the advaita level (paramarthika) there is no duality. So there is no separation...the Atman is also the Brahman. A very interesting discussion on this topic with Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi might help shed some light on this topic (albeit it isn't directly answered, but provides the right cues towards thinking about it) http://benegal.org/ramana_maharshi/books/tw/tw186.html

This is meant to be a guideline/summary of what Vedanta is and a little bit of it's history, key concepts therein as well as common terminology with associated meanings. As has been discussed often, there are many words in Vedanta's original language -- Sanskrit, that are untranslatable into English (or other western languages). A general meaning of these words/concepts can be made, but they would still fail to grasp the meaning/import of the word (as spoken in Sanskrit or derivatives thereof, such as Hindi, Bangla, etc). Let us try to keep our personal predilections/beliefs from coloring this thread, and let us collectively work on building a repository of information that can be used to understand/expound on the Upanishads (the core and essence of Vedanta) by any individual seeking to advance their understanding. The source of Vedanta The Hindu tradition considers the Vedas to be the source, and Vedanta is part of the Vedas. It is the fourth and final component of the Vedas. The Vedas are composed of the following parts: The Samhitas The Brahmanas The Aranyakas The Upanishads All three systems of Vedanta are based on the Upanishads and hence the name Vedanta (or the last part of the Vedas). Etymology: Veda + anta (Veda - root Vid, to know - thereby Veda means knowledge; anta - End/conclusion) - thereby the Conclusion of Veda is Vedanta. The three systems of Vedanta These are: Advaita Vedanta or Non-Dualistic Vedanta (Shankaracharya being the primary teacher of this system) Dvaita Vedanta or Dualistic Vedanta (Madhavacharya being the primary teacher) Vishisthadvaita Vedanta or Qualified Non-dualistic Vedanta (Ramanujacharya being the primary teacher) Key Concepts in Vedanta Brahman Brahman is the ultimate reality, in Vedanta/Upanishads. It has been likened to the smaller than the smallest particle we can see but larger than the largest fathomable entity (capable of being conjured by the human mind). It is without properties (and all references to it are allegorical/metaphorical) and therefore is without gender, without shape, without form. Brahman is also likened to be the source, participant and activity (all there is). Atman Atman is the "True Self", that is the "True identity", when stripped of all extraneous identities (in general every which way we do identify ourselves). Ishwara This is the "God" (as we would understand it from the theistic point of view). In that, a God that creates, nurtures, destroys and so on. Jiva Jiva translated from sanskrit means "Living being". So Jiva is the being that lives (and the identities that we use for ourselves, are in context of, with reference to this). The Two-level theory of Reality In Vedanta, there are two levels of Reality (or Truth), one being called the Vyavaharika Satya and other other being the Paramarthika Satya. Satya comes from the sanskrit word "Sat" or "Substantial/Existence/Reality/Truth". Vyavahar in sanskirt stands for "Use" or "Usage". So Vyavaharika is that which is used - so our everyday lives, world and interactions fall in this category. Paramartha is sanskrit is a compound consisting of Parama (Ultimate) and Artha (Meaning/Value). So Paramarthika is that which is of Ultimate Meaning/Value. All of Vedanta is about putting into context the dynamics between Brahman, Atman, Ishwara and Jiva, using the two-level theory of Reality (I'm being reductionistic here, but its a good starting point). We can revise these statements/semantics after (if we do have) discussions in this regard here. The 10 Principal Upanishads The following are the 10 principal Upanishads, that form the core of Vedanta. I will refer to the associated "Mukhya Upanishads" (or Main Upanishads) page i wikipedia for this: Īṣa, (ŚYV) "The Inner Ruler" Kena (SV) "Who moves the world?" Kaṭha (KYV) "Death as Teacher" Praṣna, (AV) "The Breath of Life" Muṇḍaka (AV) "Two modes of Knowing" Māṇḍūkya (AV) "Consciousness and its phases" Taittirīya (KYV) "From Food to Joy" Aitareya, (ṚV) "The Microcosm of Man" Chāndogya (SV) "Song and Sacrifice" Bṛhadāraṇyaka (ŚYV) These are the dasopanishads (or 10 upanishads) that form the core of Vedanta. The parenthesized acronyms are the Vedas they are associated with. SYV - Shukla Yajur Veda (White Yajur Veda) SV - Sama Veda KYV - Krishna Yajur Veda (Black Yajur Veda) AV - Atharva Veda RV - Rg Veda The Relation between Vedanta and other systems originating out of India The other systems that originated out of India (Darsanas) can be categorized as Astika (Theistic) or Nastika (Atheistic): Astika Systems The following six systems are Astika systems Purva Mimamsa (Ritualists) Sankhya Yoga Vaisheshika (Atomists) Nyaya (Logicians) Uttara Mimamsa (Vedanta) Nastika Systems The nastika systems are: Jaina (Jainism) Bauddha (Buddism) Charvaka (Materialists) Where do the Tantras fit? Nama Rupa What is this concept? Nama = Name/label, Rupa = form/shape. So Nama Rupa is a key concept in the understanding of Vedanta. It lends towards comprehension of the two levels of reality/truth concept. A relatively long time ago, there were discussions on phenomena, noumena, etc here on TTB. Nama Rupa needs to be understood to be able to ascertain (first intellectually, then experientially) what it is that is Paramartha, beyond mundane reality. Nama Rupa is the basis of what is called a "Categorical framework" in philosophy. Nama (as in Label) and Rupa (as in form) give substance to what we view, how we view it and what interpretations we give to it. <more to come>