taijistudent

I like your chosen perspective.

Be true to yourself and be yourself. This is usually a good path to take.

Taiji student you have a very balanced way of responding, I admire you.

 

Must look into tai chi haha, maybe the gary clyman thing too haha

 

Not to say I never feel like this or that general advancement in ones cultivation path whatever it is doesnt lead the same results, past few days I havent been sleeping properly or done any cultivation which is unusual.

 

I do find that people that do Taichi a lot respond to such disturbances in a more harmonious way to create balance, I think the taichi symbol is balance. In our society it seems yang and yang creating more yang. Taichi seems good for this.

It is for each person to explore what he/she to wishes to explore and to discard that which he/she finds not useful and to cultivate that which is useful. I wish you very well on your journey and much success in your endeavors.

Why couldn't it simply be endorphins and chemical pathways?

Everything is related. It is approaching the question with a different understanding and with this new understanding approaching health from a different point of view. It is like sports training. Each coach has a different perspective and trains his/her players based upon these different perspectives. I know many people who live to a very healthy old age simply by walking and eating well. Each person approaches life differently. Nothing is required however knowledge is knowledge.

I don't disagree with that.

 

Although, I don't necessarily attribute the cause to neceassarily be chi. I don't consider chi to be the cause because of better health because I think it condones ignorance and is a crutch, much like some religions use "god", to unveiling the true mechanisms involved.

 

You can say it is because of chi, but what is it really because of?

 

(Just my opinion)

This way of looking at things in life may not be suitable for you, but I have spent a lifetime studying the concepts of qi, prana, energy (yes, we use that word all of the time in Western exercise practices), and to understand its nature and how to nurture it does help one in life in many ways. This does not mean that for you this has any meaning or value. We each journey along our own path. However, in time you may find it interesting. It is not supernatural, anymore than the nature of breadth and food is supernatural (life Qi is formed by breadth and food), but it is knowledge that is helpful. I do not say this to try to convince you. More to relate my own life experiences. May you have good health no matter which path you travel.

-----Opinion Alert-------

 

The entire concept of jing and chi as being presented is in my opinion either;

 

A. Ignorance of the mechanism involved.

B. To scam westerners (and others) who believe in fairy tales.

C. Alleviation of "Death Anxiety".

I am not sure how things are being presented so I cannot comment. However, there are definitely health benefits that one can expect as outlined here: http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/health-benefits-tai-chi-qigong. Being more flexible, with more energy, and of a more peaceful mind can usually assist someone in other endeavors since a healthy mind and body are generally considered useful in a broad set of activities. I started another thread where I linked to some simple Qigong exercises on Youtube that anyone can do and which I believe are reasonable approaches to developing a healthier body.

Recently I began perusing Youtube for some nice presentations of Qigong. The first one is a nice short series that I thought I might share with members, followed by a series with a different flavor demonstrated by Grandmaster Feng Zhiquang. The essence of any Qigong practice is the quiet flow of breadth, breathing in while expanding and breathing out while contracting. I hope you enjoy them.

What good is this "jing" exactly?

If you explain your question in more detail, I will try to provide a reasonable answer.

Fundamentally nurturing and developing life energy (Qi or any form of Qi) is a health practice based upon an Eastern perspective on the nature of health and life. Anything that makes the mental and physical body healthier and stronger can be applied to other activities in life (martial arts, arts, sports, etc.).

Yes we often practice with eyes closed...sensing flow and movement.

I remember practicing with a person from China who was quite good. I had to really quiet my mind so I could sense the impulse before he actually made the movement. It was very good practice.

Feng was obviously the real deal, had powerful fajing, and a ton of Qi flowing. Not paranormal or supernatural though.

I agree. He studied, was open to learning and changing, and he understood as he grew. A good example of what one may expect from studying Taiji with an open mind to learning.

In our two person practice, we try to be very soft and slow...trying to go by energy flow...and follow it. We feel when we have been uprooted by the other (or by ourselves) and refine...sometimes follow through, sometimes stop. Sometimes we get carried away and our teacher reminds us to not be in conflict. Getting over the fact that only energy is flowing and not two individuals are pushing hands is the hardest part...

Yes. In my practice, I first started by "trying to follow" (there is no other way), but over time, the body memory has learned to follow as a complete unit without actively thinking (the memory does it automatically).

One exercise for this type of learning is to have one partner (the "teacher"), moving the body (while walking) in any direction possible. The other partner ("the student") touches one or both arms of the "teacher" and follows the movements with his/her eyes closed. It is a way of developing the listening sense.

Thanks for sharing. Feng zhiqiang was bruce frantzis' chen taiji teacher right?

I am not familiar with this so I cannot speak to this directly. However, I am familiar with Mr. Frantzis, and from what I observed, I did not notice similarities. My experience was brief.

To achieve the skills of Feng Zhiqiang requires a particular perception and openness to learning and changing. As the mind and body opens, new experiences enter and the mind and body grow together because they are necessarily one (two sides of the same coin). When I practice, I visualize movements such as those demonstrated in order to feel the non-stop flow of spiraling energy. When practice push-hands I do likewise but in this case it is a partnership. Sticky does not mean to hold, but rather it means that my body should feel like an extension of my partner, as if the two are moving as one.

Recently I read a translation of Chapter 50 which was quite different from many other interpretations that I have read. In this particular translation, Chapter 50 was seen as a commentary on the nature of the cycle of life and death. When one enters one they begin their journey into the other. This is very much in accordance with the nature of the Yi Jing.

On this forum, I have read several threads which discussed the possible origins. It seems to me that it is quite plausible that the Dao De Jing can be interpreted as a group of songs or chants from ancient times as opposed to a doctrine of instructions. As a book of chants, it would explain the repetition of themes, just as one would find in a modern books of chants. The songs themselves would make sense as experiences as well as hopes are chanted together as a group.

Most of the translations I have looked at seem to be wanting, but I do find the one by McDonald as one that seems to echo the theme of knowledge, wisdom, as well as group hope. It also meshes well with what I have learned in my other studies.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/tao_te_ching.htm

I welcome comments.

While every one's practice is different, I believe Feng Zhiqiang provides an excellent demonstration of the nature of Taijiquan sticking, following, and Peng Jin skills. It is important to stick to the partner as though you and the partner were one. Every movement follows the energy. When the partner is uprooted, then the partner's force can be used to further uproot and create imbalance. Spirals, flow, Peng Jin are fundamental to this manner of practice.

not fog around someone... i mean spread out chi in the dantien area, that hasn't been compressed/condensed

I am not sure I am understanding your question correctly, so forgive me if I am not responding well.

The Qi that is developed in the Dantien through practice should feel quite compressed. When I was younger, it felt quite hard (it is still quite dense). But while compressed, it is still quite elastic. I would say the difference would be like the difference between a rock (muscle density) vs. that of a fresh tennis ball. In Taiji, one is developing the compressed by elastic state of energy.

I hope this answers your question.

Liao says you can cultivate your chi all you want, but you'll never reach jing, which is condensed chi. Makes sense.. you'll know all these guys who say their dantien is like a beach ball... this just means theres is a fog of chi round that area and its meaningless. I mean just think about why the mo pai has you compress the chi into your dantien untill literally no more can fit. They make it hard. So then you get internal power because the chi has been burned, redesigned.

It is difficult to explain. There is no fog around someone. It is more like your body is expanded as if air is being used to fill it.

Most of the Qigong exercises are designed to expand the sinews, muscles, tissues, etc. so that breadth (energy) can flow into the new spaces. Thus making the body more flexible, balloon like structure. It has structure (it is not limp) but it is not hard either. It is elastic so that it can ward off or give back force by using the opponents force. It is the essence of the Taiji philosophy. But I do not like talking about this too much because students begin to search for it, and the search (desire) becomes a barrier and is counter productive. It is enough to know that it exists (there is nothing at all supernatural about it) and it comes when it comes.

I would also like to say that different teachers have different methods and explain the concepts using different words. It is thus helpful to understand the fundamental concepts.

It is difficult to describe the differences between the different type of forces (e.g. muscle vs.Peng Jin), but I might be able to via analogy.

Peng jin is a feeling of expanding outwardly as if one was a balloon. It is fundamental, because the round balloon structure is the essence of the Taiji point of view: e.g. warding off using tangential motion that flows with the force, forces compressing and then bouncing off, an elastic, round defensive boundary, etc. One is making oneself into a balloon with all of the advantages. Elasticity can be seen in the difference between the skin of an elderly person who no longer has much Qi (the skin is sagging) and the skin of a baby which is very healthy and elastic.

Lack of Peng Jin would be analogous to a balloon with no air in it. Rather limp. This would be the normal relaxed state between breadths if someone lacked vital qi, for example elderly people. Sometimes, while practicing push hands, I will notice that my partner will be attempting to be very relaxed and spaghetti-like. This would be an example of practicing without Peng Jin.

Li, or muscle force is stiff and hard. It can be quite effective if one is very big, strong, or fast. It is perfectly reasonable to develop skills using Li, but the philosophical problem is that a person who is lighter and smaller Li skills will inevitably be unable to deal with the much larger force, thus will always be at a disadvantage.

Hence, the Taiji idea that the way for a smaller person to deal with larger, overwhelming forces is by developing an elastic, balloon-like structure that spins with force (warding off) as well as having the ability to return forces (as a ball might be pushed back when pushed down in water). This concept was very well demonstrated in Jet Li's Tai Chi Master movie. For one to develop this balloon-like capability, one must develop the elastic force call Peng Jin. Peng Jin can be used for Fajin since it allows for the compression and emission of energy (as a ball might do after being squeezed), but Fajin is just one of the manifestations. The primary goal is to develop that ball like, spiraling feeling that can deal with any type of oncoming.

Peng Jin does not come automatically after X years of practice. It comes when it comes and is primarily a function of the Yi (creative Mind). That is why I would recommend to be relaxed when practiced (but not limp), and to use the Yi to form intention of the flow of Qi in the body. The practice of whole body breathing in a relaxed but vital stance assists in the development. If someone wants it very badly it will not come. The desire creates too much tension in the body and thus is counterproductive. Best to just practice without expectations. There is no guarantee that this will be the correct path for everyone, but since I have successfully trained at least some people in this manner, I feel it is reasonable path for some.

Everything is necessarily Qi since it is fundamental.

I would say that Jing as a manifestation of Qi also contains some intention or imagination (imagery). Imagery is one aspect of internal Qi/Jing development. For example, the image of circulating Qi, or the image of manifesting Qi.

Many times, words are used to differentiate similarities which have some differences.

Yes, it should always be that. But too, being a Daoist is to be as natural as one can be. The other aspects of Daoism are natural for me.

Yes. Shakespeare wrote: "To thine ownself be true".

I don't understand this challenge.

 

You do realize fajing is not paranormal right?

 

 

So are you saying if someone can reproduce the things on this video on a non compliant opponent, and replicate it several times, you have 1.5 million that you will give to them? Simple as that? What's the catch?

Yes, mostly note that the teacher is uprooting first and then projecting. Uprooting is essential. Taiji practice helps to develop rooting.

It is obviously staged, who couldn't pull that stunt themselves?

I do not believe it is staged. It seemed like the result of a combination of skills and ability to uproot a partner who is not rooted. There is no reason to suggest this is extraordinary. However, I believe it is a reasonable demonstration of how Peng Jin might manifest itself. In a more even match, it is still possible to uproot but not at will. One must wait for the situation to develop. One of the objectives of Push Hands, for example, is to learn to sense the moment when uprooting is possible, such as displayed.

In my opinion someone flying 20 metres back multiple times is nothing to do with them being a little off balance, Imo that is faulty logic, there is more to it than that.

There is more to it. It is about sensing the situation of balance, then compressing the Qi and releasing it appropriately. I have done it so many times but the circumstances must be correct. As I have indicated, it cannot be done with a well rooted partner. In the case of the video, the partner is not rooted, this it is possible.

For me a Daoist is a student one who knows it is a belief but it open to changing the belief into something he/she knows. A work in progress.

Thanks guys.

I was holding a medium horse stance for over 20minutes without too much difficulty.

I began practicing the lower horse stance and then added some additional postures. For the most part I practice remaining relaxed but firm(sung).

 

Thank you Mal

I begin by practicing the KAP qigong 1&2. Then the first jury.

I open with wuchi then the stances& ding shi. I also use the lifting water and snake creeps through grass as moving qigong.

I will then proceed with with KAP qigong 3&4 (orbits).

Then I will do my taichi form.

Afterwards I will close down.

I have been doing gtummo during seated meditation.

 

After about a week of this combination I feel phenomonal.

I have noticed significant improvements in my taichi forms.

 

Love light

Tony

With practice such as yours one learns to be very rooted. Each posture can develop a different type of rooted feeling while at the same time providing some variety. When I practice, I imagine my whole body breathing through every pore thereby filling myself like a balloon.

I would agree that Push Hands is excellent training for understanding oneself and to understand one's partner. While individual practice allows one to develop, Push Hands allows for feedback in development as well as sharing of what each partner can do. Each partner brings something different and to learn to practice with each type of partner provides a wealth of knowledge.

My personal understanding of the Dao is that it represents Beginning of everything which evolved into Yin, Yang, Qi (waves of moving energy).

Thus there is no Nazis Daoism, or any adjective to Daoism, since the Dao is the mother of all.

I find that I rarely quote from the Dao De Jing since it is so open to interpretation and such a wide variation in translations. I find that my understanding evolves over time as I search for literal and poetic translations that help me better understand the wisdom of the texts.

What we can say is that within the Dao there are equal parts of everything and thus there will always exist those who cause great harm to a great many people, as they do today and as they did thousands of years ago, as will there be those who nurture. There is no escape from the polarity of life. But we can mitigate by moderation.