taijistudent

A light seemed to turn on for me yesterday, while going over the first lines of the Dao De Jing.

 

I had mentioned before that I felt "Dao Ke Dao" referred to something similar to Legge's translation "The Dao that can be trodden." Dao is a path and it is also following that path.

 

This needs to be read in context of the fact that Mo-ism was a predominating philosophy of the time, predating Confucianism, which talked about 道 Dao as a way of ethics or dao-de. When starting the treatise on Dao-De, the first thing that needed to be established is that Dao is mystical! It is not merely a way of human ethics and behavior!

 

So:

道可道

The Dao of accepted precepts to be followed by humankind

非恆道

is not the eternal Dao

 

Laozi is showing that the Dao extends far beyond the mere rules that govern human behaviour! It is the way that governs all nature and gives birth to Heaven and Earth!

 

名可名，

The names and accepted descriptions,

非恆名

can never be that which is glorified

 

These descriptions and precepts are not the Eternal Dao, the Vast Greatness(see chapter 25, or commentary in my personal practice discussion).

 

So there you have it (I believe)!

 

"The Dao as a way of precepts to be followed by humankind

Is not the Eternal Way!"

I like your approach. I think that you may find a way keep the original simplicity and still retain the sense that you are attempting to convey. I believe this is an interesting approach that will add to the understanding of the Dao De Jing.

Nothing ever happens as expected. Not one minute from now, not one year from now, not 50 years from now. Things happen as they happen.

But this does not prevent me from setting some goals and intentions in life. But a goal is just a temporary direction. Things happen along the way, and like a good navigator I use some of my own energy to maneuver but I do not fight strong tides or head winds that might exhaust me or over turn me.

This may not be the way for everyone, but it is one way.

My point of view is very simple. We all have skills. Some of the quite unusual or more well developed. Mozart had very unusual skills, though most would not call them supernatural. Some people can hold their breadth longer and others can go longer without eating. Some may have greater sensitivity to this or to that. So are more obvious than others. Each of us has our own path and to be true to oneself will lead us toward the development of those skills for which reason we are here. "And this above all, to thine own self be true". Trying to be someone else can be frustrating, lead to poor health, and create possible prolonged unhappiness. Search within your own self and here you will find The Way which is Your Way . The skills you are seeking are within you not in someone else.

Sure matey, that might be your definitions of Jin etc. ... which is all cool and groovy

 

Give this a read:

http://bit.ly/UFxSwU

 

I really like the descriptions contained in this article and its points are very well taken. My only addition would be is to describe the Nei jin as being more of an elastic or bouncy type of jin. Otherwise, I believe the article is right on target. Thanks for sharing!

Suppression or repression of a natural desire leads to stagnation and poor health. So it is best to manifest whatever one wishes. However, to avoid excess, which can also be harmful, then one can practice diversity. Many pursuits in life moderates each individual pursuit, thus moderation is naturally attained. To attempt to attain moderation via suppression is unhealthy since it is self-enforced stagnation.

Moderate flow yields healthy mind, body, spirit.

It either an attempt at a joke or just a misleading jab at Stig about some other recent threads. I wouldn't worry about it as Sydney is a LONG way from Queensland

Thanks. It is a bit confusing. Feels almost like bait-and-switch. Anyway, I doubt any 1.5 million will be transferred because I don't know for what. If it is for giving a seminar in Sydney, I will be happy to make the trip first and collect.

Yes, I agree that QIgong, via relaxation, slow rhythmical movements, and deep breathing can lead to better health. But of course, as with anything, excess of anything can lead to poorer health.

My own preference are simple movements all of which are capable of providing equivalent results (Qigong was actually designed to be quite simple). These movements are amply conveyed in Youtube videos or various Qigong tapes (I think the tapes of Yang Jwing-Ming which can be purchased at a discount are more than adequate).

I am a bit confused by the title of the thread however.

I can only supply you with the advice that has worked for me and others in my life who were facing problems: Pursue life with diversity and moderation.

Yes, burn out is possible as in any activity in life whether it be physical, mental, or spiritual. I have found it to be wise to approach any practice in moderation and always staying attune to feedback signals that he body is sending. I know of many people who pushed to exceed what would be healthy for them and in the process harmed themselves. It is no different than running. Running a mile or two may be healthy. Running a marathon can kill. Any excess can create harm.

Do you have any references that suggest that meridian qi is the only qi we know in our body?

 

I would refer you the Neijing Suwen for an alternate viewpoint, but probably one of the best definitions of qi comes from Ted Kaptchuk in The Web That Has No Weaver....

I think the best way to envision Qi is to view it as the basic energy unit of all matter and life. Qi (i.e. energy) combines with Yin/Yang wave patterns (consider yin and yang the two opposite poles of a wave) to form moving waves, or the basic essence of everything. This process is described in the Dao De Jing as two (the wave) emerging from the one and the three (wave + energy) emerging from the two.

As consequence Qi energy permeates everything but in different forms. In China, the word is used in an enumerable number of ways as we might use energy in our own language. Specifically, in medicine, there are a variety of different concepts of Qi in order to explain the human physical, mental, and spiritual beings.

First of all, being a humble beginner at Taobums, thanks for repllies..They were truly at another level.

 

Also agree with the below point.

 

Matter it seems, is just a vibration of energy within the probable space. Even as per Heisenberg's theory, perceptions seem to change the observed result.

 

Well since the whole of existence is questioned here, maybe there are infinite timelines and universes indeed. :-)

 

'''''''''Nik''''''''''''''

Yes, I would agree that all matter and life is vibrating (i.e. Qi).

Absolutely. It is your inner flow of time (duration) that you sense while learning and creating. It cannot be put into words but you can feel it.

So much good advice, and still perhaps something more in depth should be done. Adjusting eating habits, drinking habits and possibly relax a bit, take it easy and don't do so much physically exerting exercises. Sometimes with liver qi stagnation, qi gong may cause more wind in the body, than before and irritate the liver, causing more liver problems.

 

The twisting and turning of Bagua Zhang is beneficial indeed for the middle jiao, yet it may also be strenuous on the middle jiao if indeed the middle jiao is weak. A result may be knotted qi in the middle jiao, liver qi stagnation, digfestive problems, qi not settling down, yang qi rising, etc.

 

Some drinks to stay away from: any sweetened drinks, coffee, red teas (black teas), Cold drinks as well.

 

Teas that can be beneficial: Any flower teas, especially rose, jasmine, and chrysanthemum. NO SUGAR! WARM WATER IS GOOD TOO!

 

Flavors to stay away from: Any heating flavors: No Hot and Spicy stuff, fried foods out of the question, oily foods no good. Chives, Leeks, Garlic all heating and stimulate the liver. ( in liver qi stagnation, its not a good stimulation.)

 

 

 

Enjoy!

I agree with all of your points. Let me underscore a few:

1) If there are indeed blockages that are causing stagnation, anywhere in the body, then increasing Qi buildup will be counterproductive and can actually cause further harm. Consider this similar to pouring more water down a toilet that is clogged. The water will backup and overflow. This is basic to classical Chinese medicine (which I want to differentiate from the post Communist revolution brand of Chinese medicine).

2) Anything warm is good for moving the blood, e.g. warm soups, water, or bath.

3) Hot and spicy will overheat and again be a potential cause for heat rising and causing harm.

Best to relax, moderate exercise to keep blood and qi moving, and deep, whole body, massage (tuina) for the fastest, most effective and longest lasting results. Herbs and acupuncture help with moving the blood and eliminating toxins but its effects are nominal compared to the action of tuina, cupping and quasha when and where appropriate.

Good luck!!

Man I wish I lived liked that in mexico, it is my goal eventually, i keep getting urges to just go, had a job interview just today man it makes me so angry how most people live...anyways

Everywhere it is approximately the same nowadays. One just has to learn to adjust.

Angry is a normal human emotion and response. I believe repression and/or suppression of anger is unhealthy and will harm the internal organs. Each person may or may not get angry at different things. But if one is angry, sooner or later it manifests itself either in huge outbursts or damage to the internal organs. Best to let it out moderately (as opposed to a volcano) and appropriately (e.g. at the person that is making you angry). Moderation is usually a good path.

Maybe we don't have access to the answer of the question of whether the Tao is like this or like that.

The classic texts make fun of people trying to make it fit inside tents, people, or paragraphs.

There is much emphasis upon the limits of language.

 

But there is also the clearly expressed desire to change the way we talk about things.

There are many ways to interpret the Dao De Jing symbols, especially in light of the changes in symbol meaning over the centuries. All translators and translations bring their own interpretations, biases, perspectives, and sometimes an element of "marketing". We each are drawn to the Dao in our own way.

It is essentially the same as ancient Daoism. Extremely similar to my own personal practice. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Yes, Qi is real. It is the basic substance of life/matter. Energy in its most ethereal form.

If you are tired, it can come from so many causes: stress, over use of your mind, excessive activity, inefficient breathing and storage of breadth, poor diet, poor assimilation of food, not enough sleep, etc. etc. etc. One must look at the total lifestyle and attempt to understand what is happening.

Hi,

You have identified anger which can only be addressed via self-reflection. Often you can tell what is bothering you in the manner you criticize others. Call it a mirror.

In terms of directly addressing the stagnation, I would recommend the following in order of effectiveness:

1) Classical tuina from someone trained in preferably Northeast China. It has to be deep and it will take about four treatments yo see results if done correctly. Other, more superficial, body massage will also be effective but not as much.

2) Herbs: Milk Thistle, Dandelion, and certain Chinese herbal formulas such as Major Bupleurum, which you should use on the recommendation of a highly trained herbalist. I prefer the Milk Thistle and Dandelion in tincture form for initial treatments because of the concentration.

3) Qi Qong: self-massage, full body, gentle flow and twisting to move the blood. It should not be stiff. Yang Jwing-Ming provides good demonstrations.

4) Plenty of clean water during the day. 6 - 8 glasses.

5) A diet that is primarily green vegetables and whole grains. Keep it light so that you do not overload your system. Organic is best since it reduces the amount of chemicals that can become lodged in the liver.

6) No sugar or processed foods.

7) No cold drinks.

Each person is different, so you have to experiment a bit, but approach it methodically and you will hopefully find what works for you. I would like to emphasize that classical tuina is by far the best. Couple this with cupping and/or guasha if necessary.

You done good. I need counter though. In this case the wave is the ocean. The wave is nothing more than the motion of the ocean. Without the ocean there would be no wave.

 

However, particles do exist singularly without a series and pattern of a wave whereas the wave does not exist unless there are a series of particles in a pattern of some sort to create the wave.

 

Other than that, I agree, our perspective will determine what we see.

Yes, there are similarities within the differences and differences within the similarities.

In this case, it would be impossible to have the ocean without the waves unless one admits to the absolute stillness of the ocean. To bring absolute stillness is possible and then there is nothing (e.g. the state of being that one has between dreams).

The concept of particles and waves (at least within the quantum realm) only exists within a laboratory experiment (e.g. the point of view the experimenter wishes to take. What it actually Is, cannot be precisely described though Bohm's quantum perturbation interpretation for me is the best, where the "particle" is simply a perturbation within the quantum potential, the highest point in the potential being the most probable place for a "particle" to appear. Thus the two concepts are weaved together as waves (particles) within oceans (quantum potential). Bohm originally adopted de Broglie's notion of a particle "riding a wave", into a more cohesive model which more closely aligns itself as a cohesive unit with differences and similarities.

Are you really sure about that? I'm not. There is a difference between a wave and a particle. They are not the same thing. Yes, a particle may be part of a wave. And yes, waves contain particles. Viewed from the perspective of Oneness they are the same, viewed from the manifest they are different aspects of what may be the same thing.

I think what the OP is expressing is that there are differences within the similarities and similarities within the differences. They are at once different and the same. Quantum physics confirms the duality of waves and particles. It depends upon the experiment being performed, i.e. the perspective.

For example:

Look at the ocean. There it is the ocean. It is the ocean.

Then change your perspective. Look at the waves. There are the waves. The waves are the waves.

Can one see the ocean and the waves at the same time? I don't think so. One must choose a perspective and say there is the ocean or there are the waves even though they are exactly the same. We switch back and forth all of the time. The two perspectives are both different and the same at once.

Here is a link that might help you decide:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/personal-effectiveness/4984-school-phenomenal-memory.html

You want 3rd eye the Daoist way? Learn a decent neigong system (easier said than done, but still). Then work.

I would agree. One does not can cannot train for any experiences. They come when they come if they come.

What one can do is quietly practice healthful exercises and live well and observe what happens. Practice for your health and over all well being, don't expect much more than a healthy body, and what comes will come. One never knows.

But i wouldn't obsess about diet too much (coming from someone who has a lot, and I end up back where I started whenever I go to those extremes). Take the middle path. Just figure out what works for your situation, financially, where you live, and how the food makes you feel personally. Some people probably can't do tofu, but since I seem to stomach it just fine I let it be. I also found for myself that eating the larger meals earlier in the day had a great impact on my health... Better sleep, wake up earlier naturally with lots of energy... less of a blood sugar spike (I used to wait a long time to eat my first meal). I try to have green smomothie/juice type stuff for dinner now.

 

The most damaging things I have found in my experience are eating huge meals, or eating a bunch of sugar. Those two actions seem to effect me more than any particular food in the diet.

 

and edit: i wasn't trying to discourage your fast - by all means. It's probably the best way to increase your body's intelligence, which will make it easier to find the diet that works for you. I think the diet you end up with shouldn't feel like a lot of effort, should feel like a natural extension of you (whether it's physically a lot of work or not)

Yes, I very much agree. Each person is different and has to find the diet that works best. Some people find tofu, for example, difficult to digest because it is dense in protein, thus creating phlegm and possibly allergic reactions. Each person is different. The key attributes of a healthy diet are lots of vegetables and whole grains, moderation, avoidance of process foods and as you said smaller, nutritious meals (even the body doesn't get the nutrition it needs, it will be in a constant state of hunger).

Stress creates a need for quick spikes in energy, thus one often finds oneself seeking quick fixes like coffee or sugar. Best to look for ways to manage the stress.

Otherwise, as you have wisely suggested, seek moderation in all activities in life including diet. It is a safe path to take.

Thanks taijistudent, that's pretty much the diet I'm leaning towards now. How do you feel about gluten-containing and GMO products?

It is good to reduce gluten because gluten is difficult to digest and thus create stagnation. Gluten products that have been sprouted (e.g. Ezekiel Bread) are better tolerated. GMO is something I stay away from. My general idea is that the body has evolved over millions of years to gain energy and life from certain foods, e.g. vegetables, whole, grains, etc. It just doesn't know how to naturally assimilate all of these newly developed foods which are foreign to the digestive process. As a result, they are not digested well and are left undigested in the system. Some of it can be eliminated, but if the body gets overloaded with undigested by-products, it is stored in fat cells which ultimately manifests as diseases.