Seeker of Wisdom

He's not claiming the great meditators will become animals. He's saying that if someone only practices shamatha, thinking that it is awakening, this leads to animal rebirth. (Though the traditional claim is that it gets you heavenly rebirth, after which you're likely to have a lower rebirth because you probably just spent that heavenly life obsessed with sense pleasures and not generating merit.) I'm the same as in your first two sentences about rebirth. But if we unpack the idea of 'animal' into 'creature that doesn't have much capacity for investigation and wisdom', this matches up to the idea of a person who thinks that jhanas are awakening and obsesses over them. What I reckon Milarepa's trying to get across is 'don't be a jhana junkie if you want wisdom, but use it alongside vipashyana'. Later in the same song:

Personally, I think it's very important to consider such things as things we really can attain. Otherwise, what the f*** are you doing? If we think it's only achievable after decades of mountain retreat, we're holding the attainment up as some mystical thing so far away that there's no true motive to try for it - it's just a fairytale. So we block the door to anything happening besides a little massaging the rough edges of samsara (as valuable as even that is for people). We have to have confidence in ourselves that if we practice seriously (i.e. not just pop-psychology or massaging samsara, actual virtue, samadhi, and incisive insight) we can get first jhana, etc. As a thing that actually happens today, in real life.

The most important thing I got from Leigh was learning how the first jhana of the suttas is different from that of the commentaries. In the suttas it has the four factors of (subtle) thought, examination, rapture and joy - ekagatta isn't there fully until the second jhana, with the complete release of thought and examination, which is why it's called noble silence. This makes sense, and means the ludicrous commentarial requirement of four straight hours of utter ekagatta to qualify for merely the first jhana isn't necessary. The method I'm currently trying out is focusing on the knowing of the breath, rather than the physical sensation of the breath. I haven't yet got to a point where a nimitta appears, or the breath is completely unfindable, so I haven't tested the 'pleasurable sensations' thing fully. But I have learnt that relaxing more into the pleasure of it helps. I think I'll try combining that with my previous approach, focus on sensation at the nostrils, and see how that works. That might get the balance of focus and release I need. [Edit - yeah, this is better. Focusing on sensation in a spot, relaxing in the pleasure of it.] Have you seen this? http://www.leighb.com/case_of_the_missing_simile.htm I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this particular article.

I feel sorry for you. If this wasn't the case you would clearly see for yourself how learning to contrive a little rest from the noise is an incredibly useful thing... the rest itself, how the mind develops in the process of learning to enter it, and what is learnt in the process. Much of your post sounds more or less like mahamudra to me... the initial stages involve learning to rest the mind so that it is less restless, brighter, better framed to investigate its own true nature. Just because something is contrived doesn't mean it isn't bloody well worth doing.

What about 'there simply are no flying spaghetti monsters'? Is it okay to not believe in them? Or should we be agnostic about it (as we can't prove they don't exist)? What, if anything, makes this different from 'there simply are no gods'? People think it's okay to be confident about the nonexistence of invisible unicorns, Russell's teapot, the flying spaghetti monster, and so on. Until there is a reason to believe, non-belief is the rational (and default) position. Gods are no different just because a lot of people believe in them. There is evidence for pheromones. Maybe there will be evidence for gods at some point - but there isn't now, so far as I'm aware. Again, it's rational to not believe in something if you see no reason to believe it, and someone can always change their mind when new info comes along. An internal drive for 'higher' could mean any number of things (gods, karma ripening, higher planes, existential dissatisfaction...). Of course if someone interprets it as divine grace, gets into Christian mysticism and progresses spiritually toward awakening, or any other helpful route based on a belief they've latched on to, fantastic. But a rational person won't leap into an unfounded belief about gods or other things because of this drive. They will keep an open mind and explore deeper into their unfolding so that they can actually discover what's happening for themselves, rather than assuming something. Note - as a Buddhist, I would say I'm a nontheist. Onto the thread topic, perhaps daojia could be considered nontheistic? Agnosticism doesn't really put forward a worldview, while daojia does.

What keeps them together from falling asleep and waking up? One thought and the next? When a fire is burning along a rope, it's fair to call the flames near the end a continuation of the flames at the start, the same fire - but no molecule is the same all the way along the rope.

I don't think there's a soul, but nor are we just big brained apes rationalising impending death. I see the mind as a bundle of impermanent processes, so there is no part which stays continuously and no part which 'is me', but there is still a continuity over time and over lives.

An advanced practitioner of shamatha can enter the jhanas and rest in them for fair periods of time. In the first jhana there's still a certain extent of thought and evaluation, but from the second jhana on is 'noble silence'.

With the provisos that thought is a useful tool in many things, that it shouldn't be suppressed, and that mental composure (samadhi) should come from tranquility rather than force - if it feels like effort, that's not what you're looking for... The sheer level of chatter most people have is the result of a deep-seated restlessness. Letting go of this restlessness while staying alert gives the mind peace, contentment and brightness. This is itself just very nice, like the mind is a summer sky. Your memory improves, your baseline happiness increases, you understand things faster. Also it provides an excellent basis for greater virtue and deeper insight. Trying to develop insight with a restless/dull mind is like trying to read in the dark with a dim flashlight that's swinging on a rope. And when the mind is like a summer sky, it's less prone to being irritable and craving random stuff.

Scientific evidence isn't exactly a myth. It's the ideal epistemological framework for considering the objective physical universe. The LHC is a monument to human curiosity and ingenuity.

It's pretty obvious that this Goswami guy isn't a real physicist, from what he says about the Large Hadron Collider. Particle collisions happen all the time in the upper atmosphere, and throughout the universe, and at much higher energies than in the LHC. This has had no effect. The only difference in the LHC is that it has measuring equipment! Reading one side of an argument is no way to reach a reasoned conclusion. *edit* silly me, should have read further. That appears to be the only solid fact on the whole page.

Have you ever read MCTB? http://static.squarespace.com/static/5037f52d84ae1e87f694cfda/t/5055915f84aedaeee9181119/1347785055665/ There's a lot here on how the Dark Night can happen through vipashyana, why, and how to get through. Not sure how this might apply to different practices, but I hope it helps.

Other sites seem to either be new-age slop, or highly focused down one [style of] path. Here you get serious cultivation, threads on qigong dipping into prostrastion or whatever in a meaningful way... If you actually want to cultivate, and have the opportunity to go beyond the views and practices of whichever path you're focused on, this is the place!

^^^ the fact is whatever side effects are going on, they aren't anything like as bad as a high enough rate of infant deaths from preventable diseases that people would literally have more children because they knew some would die. This is how people conduct family planning in places without vaccination, seriously. They literally decide to have some more kids so they are more likely to have at least one reach maturity. In what twisted reality is that really better than some people having vaccine side effects?

There wouldn't be a stampede without vaccination... because most of us would have died terribly in early childhood. You don't have to look back far to see what happens without vaccination. It's all there in black and white. Are people over-vaccinated? Probably. Is vaccination a basic human right? Definitely.

Point taken. I'm not trying to be any sort of Buddhist, rather a more 'skilful' version of myself. I will avoid such prickliness in future, though as CT said sometimes your comments can seem bizarre - as though you are strawmanning for the sake of it. Next time I will just tell myself that you simply read things differently, and go on my merry way. "Better than a thousand useless words is one useful word, hearing which one attains peace."

So when someone says to you 'anything could happen!' you take it completely literally? You must understand the concept of figures of speech. Besides, the quote said nothing about Buddhas and what they do. It was just about emptiness, and how it allows change. Honestly, if you go looking for holes in things to fulfil your blatant anti-Buddhist agenda, you will find them simply because you want to so much. Consciously or otherwise, if you have an agenda to meet you can straw-man anything, any way you like.

If you aren't at least as realised as an arhat, you are not above a path that produces arhats.

Dudjom Rinpoche: "Since pure awareness of nowness is the real buddha, In openness and contentment I found the Lama in my heart. When we realize this unending natural mind is the very nature of the Lama, Then there is no need for attached, grasping, or weeping prayers or artificial complaints, By simply relaxing in this uncontrived, open, and natural state, We obtain the blessing of aimless self-liberation of whatever arises. No words can describe it No example can point to it Samsara does not make it worse Nirvana does not make it better It has never been born It has never ceased It has never been liberated It has never been deluded It has never existed It has never been nonexistent It has no limits at all It does not fall into any kind of category."

It's kind of easier to say 'core of your being' or similar than 'the capacity of the mindstream to be fully awakened following simply the removal of obscurations, rather than needing the addition of new qualities from outside; which is of one taste with emptiness as a trait of the mind', as well it being more poetic imagery. An audience aware of non-self, emptiness and how these square with Buddha-nature would understand that he was doing the best he could with language to convey the inner meaning, without burying it in dense philosophical explication. Anyway. The difference between Buddha-nature and Atman is something that has been hammered on over and over. If you don't understand now, I can't be bothered going over it any more. Buddhism denies Atman, end of, whatever quotes you misunderstand. And you can't teach us about our path any more than we would presume to teach you yours. If you must be so intolerant at to latch on any perceived excuse to attack Buddhism, please start your own threads for it (perhaps in a PPF) rather than spamming existing threads in this subforum. *edit* if you wish to respond please pm me, I don't want to take CT's thread on a tangent.

Everyone has this to some extent, I would advise 2 main things that have helped me: 1) Mindfulness of breathing, as a way to give you a little more clarity/composure with which to deal with negative feelings. There is a lot of info out there on this 'shamatha' practice. If you're interested but confused, feel free to PM me with any questions or for explanation of how I do it. 2) Then, when you have negative feelings it will be easier to try to observe them objectively without getting sucked in a spiral of negative thoughts (mindfulness), and deal with them constructively. The most important thing is that you recognise this pattern, which makes it possible to change. Many people are unaware of what they're doing to make life harder for themselves. I hope this helps.

The issue with these kinds of terms is most people will automatically interpret them in an Abrahamic light, while other traditions may have a very different use for the same word.

Thinking is unlikely to deplete the brain marrow IMO. Adults actually have pockets of stem cells in many organs and tissues. When there is cell damage in the area, chemical messengers trigger those stem cells to divide. Half stay in their pocket, the other half go the damaged area and differentiate into the type of cell they're meant to replace... so the number of these stem cells stored up stays pretty much the same whatever you do. I imagine it's the same for brain stem cells. That's if I've remembered my biology right, anyway.

IMO the problems are wrapped in a lack of self acceptance or self respect - you need to work on this first, so then you have a solid ground of psychological health to stand on while tackling the root issues. So in terms of external action, I think you should eat better, find productive/fun things to do, and approach someone for help in real life. Are your friends really avoiding you? Or are you pushing them away? Junk food may be comforting, but don't you deserve to actually feel good? In terms of internal action, cultivate metta towards yourself. Over time, you can feel confident in deserving true happiness and exerting to get it. There are many approaches to metta, which you can find online. But just focus on yourself. Some sort of deity yoga, especially with a wrathful yidam, could also be helpful if you're so inclined. After some time with that, you should be able to directly face the 'vulnerability' and work through what's causing that. I can't advise more on this without knowing more detail about exactly what it is and how you lied to yourself about it, but it's understandable if you'd rather not say online. Hope that helps.